Eidos Outsourced Those Deux Ex: HR Boss Fights

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Eidos Outsourced Those Deux Ex: HR Boss Fights

Remember that time you actually had to shoot a guy in Deus Ex: Human Revolution? Lame, right? Turns out that wasn't exactly Eidos Montreal's doing.

Meet Dr. Paul Kruszewski, president and founder of Grip Entertainment, "an independent Montreal based video game technology company" that was tapped by Eidos Montreal to craft the boss battles for Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

The same boss battles that the 'net has been complaining about since the game hit retail shelves.

In the course of that five-minute clip, Kruszewski refers to himself as a "shooter guy" and explains that Eidos Montreal essentially gave his firm the tech and gameplay design of the game, then let Grip craft boss fights based on that alone.

Unsurprisingly, the same 'net denizens who spent weeks complaining about these forced battles mucking up their otherwise stealth-based gaming experience have been gleefully linking this clip back and forth. "We've finally figured out why the boss fights suck! It was this guy! He did it!" the collective says, likely while rattling sabers, or gathering pitchforks.

I'm not about to dive into this "boss fight" controversy with my own opinion (hint: it involves dragons), but I feel for Dr. Kruszewski. In the course of a weekend, he and his company have become scapegoats for one of the gaming world's largest recent controversies, and some of the bile being flung in his direction would make Andrew Dice Clay blush.

Before you take to the comments to swear at Kruszewski for fulfilling his contractual obligations, keep in mind that Eidos Montreal was overseeing his work. As with strawberry jam, blame should always be spread evenly.

Source: EDGE

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I don't know about that. The boss fights are easy if you know the cheap strategies to defeat them.

I WANT HIS BLOOOOOOD!

I like shooters and haven't even played the game yet, but taking away my freedom to sneak in a game that promises it is a sin.

HE MUST REPENT. THEY MUST ALL REPENT.

It's not my fault! I paid someone to do it and slapped my name on it!

A "Big Controversy" really? That's what we can call a "Big Controversey" now? Lackluster boss fights? Well... I got nothing.

I'm sure I'd "get it" if I'd played either Human Revolution or the original Deus Ex, but I'm not entirely convinced of that fact. I agree with Earnest, the man just did his job, Eidos could just as easily told him to rework it or given him extra guidelines.

1st boss had a rocketlauncher in the room outside of it...And if you dont have a sweet gun by the rest of them then its your own fault. I wish that you could not kill them though for a complete pacifist run. MGS4 style.

Saucycardog:
I don't know about that. The boss fights are easy if you know the cheap strategies to defeat them.

I have to agree, although my cheap strategy was running around the room frantically and shooting a few times.

I don't see the point in outsourcing such a big part of the game. I'd like to imagine how those boss battles would be if they kept it in tune with the rest of the game.

The only thing I have to say is: Why?
Why do you suck so hard?

Eidos dude 1: "People are disliking one thing about our amazing game! How can we avoid the criticism while still garnering the love from the rest of the game?"
Eidos dude 2: "Let's blame it on someone!"
Eidos dude 1: "Promote that man!"

This is all well and good, but it seems just a little too convenient. Still, I love Eidos, and the blame should be dealt equally.

DLC is needed to fix this

Why would they even outsource that kind of thing anyway? It just seems like such a weird thing to do. It's like outsourcing your health packs, or climbing effects. Why not just do it yourselves?

Obviously they didnt properly breif this company when they hired them. Like how you should make the game. And then play test it in the major playstyles and realise, you cant.

Oh, I'll spread the blame evenly all right.

Eidos Montreal, why would you do that? Why on Earth would you outsource the boss fights? There're set up as the climactic high points of the game. Why would you give them to someone else? And why wouldn't you slap that someone else across the head when they started going wrong?

*sigh*

Personally, the boss fights didn't piss me off that much. Even Barret and his one-hit-kill bullshit multi-nade attack. But there's no denying that they were completely at odds with the rest of the game.

Well then I thank that guy, I really enjoyed the boss fights.
They were a lot of fun and they were completely in design for me, sometimes pacifist stealth types are forced into situations they can't complete.
Adapt and survive.

Any other game has a challenge for all archetypes, the fire mage has trouble with dragons, the normal type has trouble with ghosts, the stealth hacker has trouble with direct confrontation, the guns blazing guy has trouble with delicate situations and being surrounded by many bullets.
Not all battle is fair, not all men control when they fight and die.

It's perfectly within your capabilities as a role player to pronounce Science Jensen permanently dead at the first boss fight and his story unexplored if it's more believable to you.

What a strange thing to outsource, I mean I can understand outsourcing some of the landscape graphics and such but the boss battles? I mean don't those kind of need to flow with the game?

bombadilillo:
1st boss had a rocketlauncher in the room outside of it...And if you dont have a sweet gun by the rest of them then its your own fault. I wish that you could not kill them though for a complete pacifist run. MGS4 style.

I'm almost at the second boss in my second playthrough and the "sweetest gun" I've picked up so far is the P.E.P.S gun. Which I do think is a rather neat weapon, anyway.

Didn't know about that rocket launcher. Anyway, there's really no need for it during the first boss fight. The exploding containers and toxic canisters do the job well enough on their own.

With regards to the boss battles, when in the run up to the games release, I heard about the "conversational boss battles" I thought that meant we were going to be able to talk the boss characters into submission and as such avoid fighting them. Maybe for the sequel. Something like that would be quite satisfying, perhaps a more refined version of that part in Mass Effect where (no, I'm not spoiler tagging this, if you care about what happens in Mass Effect 1, you should know already!) you get to talk Saren into topping himself instead of fighting you.

- There are four boss fights in Deus EX: HR, each ranging from anywhere between 1-5 minutes.

- Total amount of time spent for boss fights = 20 minutes, max.

- The game lasts for about 25 - 40 hours. Let's say 20 hours.

- The boss fights amount to 1.67% of the entire game, worst case scenario.

- Now here's the best part - people are complaining about it. Not criticizing, not pointing out a flaw, we're talking about full-on bitching here.

Eidos decided to outsource part of their game - they have to take the fall for that decision. Maybe they were pushed for time, or something and handed over part of the game they hadn't done enough work on.

They still should have had someone oversee it and help to integrate it with the rest of the game.

the boss fights are not good but they're hardly deal breaking

I didn't like the boss fights in DE:HR, but they weren't really any worse than many other boss fights in many other games. They didn't make me pick up my keyboard and throw it at my window. They didn't make me curse and splutter with rage whilst punching my monitor. They irked me a bit, but I pressed on. They're actually quite easy on normal, and they get easier as you progress in the game. The first boss was the hardest, the second boss was mildly difficult (unless you have typhoon in which case it's a joke) and the third and fourth boss fights were often easier to defeat than some rooms-with-guards areas in the game.

People are being entirely too sensitive about this. Were they a bit annoying? Yes. Are these boss segments responsible for higher taxes, the bad taste you get when you drink orange juice after brushing your teeth and the eventual heat-death of the universe? No. PERSPECTIVE people. Perspective. The game as a whole is a success. It's not perfect, not by a long shot, but I had fun playing it the three times I did. And you know what? After playing it a third time, I barely noticed the boss fights were even there. They're that short and far apart.

The solution here is simple. Eidos should do the boss fights themselves and release the more fitting encounters as a free patch. Nobody should be sued or anything, Eidos cocked it up outsourcing the boss fights, so they should take the hit for fixing the cockup.

sravankb:

- Now here's the best part - people are complaining about it. Not criticizing, not pointing out a flaw, we're talking about full-on bitching here.

Well, it's the one thing the internet does best. Okay, second best, first best is porn. But! But the second best thing the internet does is bitch, and boy do they bitch.

The bitching is everywhere, it's here on the forums, it's in the comments on YouTube and in bloggs on WordPress.

It's easy to just say fuck it and complain when there is nothing stopping you I guess.

While I get that people don't like the boss fights because they're, to put it mildly, a wee bit silly, I don't undestand why the OP (and indeed quite a few reviewers) imply the biggest problem with the bosses is the fact that you have to kill them.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it's naive to assume you can play through the entire game without killing anyone. I mean, it's great that it's possible to do it, but why would you? There are a lot of moments in the game (the opening tutorial level and the construction site scene for instance) where being violent is the far more sensible option than being non-lethal.

Yeah, I do feel sorry for this guy, he's gonna get so much shit piled on him for this. Undeserved shit, but still.

Eidos is still responsible. I didn't mind the boos fights. I mind the fact that I don't know anything about those bosses. If they were more fleshed out characters I wouldn't care much for the actual fights. The lack of characterization of boss characters is my main gripe. Still, an option to not kill them would have been nice as well.

That's impressive. Never heard this happen before

Eidos is still responsible. These guys just did what they were told. Just like all the other bazillion contracts put out with software every day.

Um, the Typhoon pretty much ends every boss fight before it begins. And even if you don't want to invest the 2-3 Praxis points required for the Typhoon, you can get grenades and combat rifles everywhere, and hack/stealth build or not, it won't kill you to invest some of your money in the tracking bullet upgrade for the latter. So to the guys whining about how they invested all their points into hacking and thus couldn't kill Barret - learn how to throw grenades. They're not governed by any particular skill, if I recall correctly.

Btw, yeah, there are the weird boss fights against those three strange dudes, but let's not forget that there ARE two level-ending fights where you can go full-on Deus Ex and evade the dozen soldiers or hack the two big-ass robots. I liked those a lot, as a matter of fact.

oh god we had to do playtests to see whether people would actually enjoy our game. Oh, they liked the machinegun? try the shotgun. What's that you say? What is this "stealthrun" you speak of? People wanting to play a game without killing or fighting? Don't be stupid, I'm a shooter person, so must everyone else.

Why did they have to outsource it...

Kingjackl:
While I get that people don't like the boss fights because they're, to put it mildly, a wee bit silly, I don't undestand why the OP (and indeed quite a few reviewers) imply the biggest problem with the bosses is the fact that you have to kill them.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it's naive to assume you can play through the entire game without killing anyone. I mean, it's great that it's possible to do it, but why would you? There are a lot of moments in the game (the opening tutorial level and the construction site scene for instance) where being violent is the far more sensible option than being non-lethal.

Yeah, I do feel sorry for this guy, he's gonna get so much shit piled on him for this. Undeserved shit, but still.

Its not a case of having to kill them but the fact it has to be a straight fight you don't hack anything to fight with you or anything like that it just becomes a third person shooter for a few minutes and there is no other option in a game that is built upon choosing which way to do things.

1-5 minutes is only if you already know how to beat a boss, otherwise you're stuck staring at the "oh so helpful" loading screen. given the game took ~20 hours the first battle, for me, took 1.5 hours 90% of that time spent loading and subsequently getting butchered in seconds just because I was a hacker/meelee/pacifist.
when a game tempts you to rege-quit it kind of defeats the purpose.
inb4 "there's the easy mode"; some players see it as something worse than rage-quting

I can kill Barret, Yelena & Namir on Gimme Deus Ex using only the pistol. Difficulty isn't the issue here. Choice. I would've liked to avoid killing them by reasoning or something cool like that. I liked the "dialogue battles" in the game. Wish there were more.

This sounds like a job for the Spanish Inquisition!

Saucycardog:
I don't know about that. The boss fights are easy if you know the cheap strategies to defeat them.

This isn't about them being easy as quite a few people have already said.

Why would you out source something like that, boss fights are a pretty big part of the game even if there not that long but they were so lackluster and poorly done compared to everything else. Also anyone else notice the intercut scenes showing the bosses in areas we never saw them fighting Adam in what appeared to be way better boss fights than what we got. I'm not sure whats worse the company making poor out of place boss fights or Edios going to them in the first place.

Kingjackl:
Maybe it's just me, but I think it's naive to assume you can play through the entire game without killing anyone. I mean, it's great that it's possible to do it, but why would you? There are a lot of moments in the game (the opening tutorial level and the construction site scene for instance) where being violent is the far more sensible option than being non-lethal.

Trust me, it's just you. The game's meant to support multiple play-styles, including a non-lethal one. It's not naive to assume that you should be able to stick to that playstyle throughout the game.

OT: I feel sorry for this guy. The really sad thing is he seems almost proud of the boss-battles. Although, at the same time he was given a job and he failed to deliver what was expected of him. Eidos certainly deserve some blame for this, but not all of it.

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