Heavy Rain Creator: "The U.S. Has Problems With My Games"

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John O'Reilly I completely disagree with you there. Heavy Rain [the one copy] has kept me, my boyfriend, my brother, my boy friends bothers and our friends entertained for HOURS on end. This is regardless of the fact that we have played it all separately and together at my house. Graphically it is a stunning game, the animations and slight subtitles in muscle movements as well as the intense story [better then hundreds of movies I've seen] have kept us all hooked. Lets not forget that the way you interact with the game itself felt very inventive and original, yet natural.
The fact that the game can go many number of ways has meant that we have played it through more then once just to see what we missed out on - a better ending, the death of a loved character or a better arse whooping to a villain we detested being a generalisation of the many possible out comes. It, for us, is this means of switching up the out come that has kept us all on our toes for every play through. And each of us has had a different ending despite any prior knowledge of the games story.
The replay value is there.

To that end, it was worth the full amount paid.

If any one would like a new way to play Heavy Rain, it makes a fairly good party game [depressing atmosphere aside].
Get some beers/drinks in and whatever else you want, grab a friend for each of the playable characters, decide whom is whom and play the game whilst changing whom plays as the game changes characters. Each segment of each character is short enough to prevent boredom. This leads to a very organic and interesting game play experience and ending by which no one truly knows how the story will pan out. Plus you get the full enjoyment of watching and taking in what is happening on screen, some thing which I feel I could not fully appreciate the first time around as I was too involved with the quick time events.

Also I doubt Mr Cage has much say in how much his games will cost on release.

Also has any one noticed that the microwaves in that world appear to be powered by uranium rods? How else could they cook food that quickly?!

The reason we don't like his games is not because they're not shooty-bang-violence-fests, if that were the case we wouldn't like Mario and the like.
The reason we don't like his games is because they're giant quick time events. That's not good gameplay.

Come to think of it, today I was reading an article on avant-garde vs. kitsch. For internet videos, avant-garde would be something like Rubber Johnny and kitsch would be something like cute cat video #580,000,000,001.

If Gears of War is the easy-to-swallow, easily-sellable patriotic mush, then games like Heavy Rain are just thought experiments and developer whims. If that is the case for Mr. Cage (and it certainly seems like it is), asking that it sell like hotcakes and be something different that not everybody will like seems like trying to have your cake and eat it too.

If artistic endeavour is all he wants to do in the industry, then he should be satisfied with what he's making under the understanding that whether it sells or doesn't, he's pushing the envelope and breaking new ground (I'll let you guys argue over whether the ground should ever have been broken at all). If selling games is what he wants to do, he could just make another random war game with patriotic undertones, and be satisfied with paying the bills and making lots of dough. He cannot make a niche game and then whine when it isn't universally accepted; nothing new or challenging is.

I'm going to start out by saying that I've played and enjoyed Heavy Rain, despite the games plot-holes and shortcomings.

Yes, marketing sucks. US consumers have known that for a long time. Heavy Rain was still very well known and respected in my circle of friends for its ambition. Yet we fully acknowledge the game was flawed. Mr. Cage, you cannot blame the consumer for not liking your product. You can only blame the creator. This does not earn you any respect and makes you look like a child.

I feel like Nintendo would like word with you, behind their piles and piles of money.

Seriously, every time this guy talks he just comes off as a huge egotistical prick. Your games don't sell because of poor marketing and poor design. Blaming the country's tastes just makes us like you even less.

Also, you don't make games, plotholes, French, etc, etc. You get the idea.

I think the title would be more apt if it said

"The World Has A Problem With Heavy Rain Creator."

Seriously. Every time this guy opens his mouth, he seems even more like a pretentious prick.

This is like comparing the sales of literary fiction to genre fiction. If you consciously opt to make art then it is going to have a more limited appeal. But I agree that is not inevitably a result of the actual product, but of the way it is advertised.

I got Heavy Rain... It is not a game, so of course people are going to have issues with it. Not saying it was BAD, but I sure didn't like it. It was just boring. They also dropped the ball by not allowing you to influence who the killer is. They leave it open ended until the end of the game but only allow one of the 4 characters to be the killer when all 4 really could have been.

Ciler:
Nintendo seems to have no problem making and selling games that have no guns...

Also, there are plenty of gun-free (or even weapon-free) games on other platforms that sell quite well (e.g. sports/racing games, The Sims, most of the top selling iOS games, etc).

Katamari Damacy (one of my top favorites from last gen along with Burnout Revenge) comes to mind too. I was playing Flower the other night and didn't kill anyone. Go over to metacritic and look at the top scores: not all those games involve big tough guys with guns.

The big problem is that this Cage guy is such a pretentious douche, he can't even realize why his games are so bad.
I can support innovative gaming but at a time where people are getting real sick of QTEs, they may not appreciate a game entirely made up of them...no matter how good you think the story is. That's not innovative. Ironically what is innovative is something like VATS (from Fallout 3) where the player isn't just given a cinematic reward to pressing the right button at the right moment: it allows the gamer to make a tactical decision regarding the cinematic. QTEs haven't been innovative since Dragon's Lair; what's innovative now is finding creative and fun ways AROUND QTEs.

And why is he trying to make it sound like his game got no hype. I thought it got too much.

Evill_Bob:
Okay lets list the exuses. Only two so far. Heavy Rain didn't become a chart topper because

A.) Used game market, I think three million played the game but only two million bought it new. They made Quick Time Events (which everybody loves of course) not only a feature, but the entire damn game. Obviously GameStop is the reason half of everyone who bought it new sold it.

B.) America. Yes America is the problem of everything. If you have a problem, no matter how localized or even if anyone in America even knows your country exists and has never interacted with you in any way, it is by default their fault. Damn those Americans and their Call of Duty (try not to think of Peggle, Minecraft, The Sims, or FarmVille it's less confusing that way).

The thing is I actually partially agree with him alot of the people marketing games in the U.S. don't seem to have a high opinion as to the games American gamers will enjoy.

What makes Cage look like an asshole is that his games specifically didn't do well because they're dull (though Heavy Rain is the only one I had experience with to be fair). In Cage's case American marketing wasn't at fault if I remember right every one I knew was excited about Heavy Rain, but when it came right down to it once people started playing it and the reviews and even harsher Let's Plays no one wanted to go anywhere near it.

Well, I like his games.

Soviet Heavy:
No, the United States does not have problems with your games.

No the problem they have is that you are an insufferable asshole who bitches and complains every time someone criticizes your work.

No kidding; David Cage is the most pretentious, thin-skinned, egotistical, self-hating, pseudo-wannabe-intellectual in the ENTIRE industry. This prick is like M. Night Shyamalan after The Village had a mixed reception; blaming everyone for his failures and using strawman arguments so he wouldn't have to admit that he might have some weaknesses that he needs to work on. Doesn't help that WAAAAAY too many journalists let him get away with crap like this. Seriously, if I want a game that tackles mature subject matter in an adult way I'll play the Parasite Eve series, Vagrant Story, Catherine, Tactics Ogre, Persona, or any of the many, many, MANY games I have that had far better narratives than this ass' half-baked direct-to-dvd Seven ripoff ever did.

MurderousToaster:
I think the title would be more apt if it said

"The World Has A Problem With Heavy Rain Creator."

Seriously. Every time this guy opens his mouth, he seems even more like a pretentious prick.

lol this thread
Also this I agree with this guy

exobook:
While I have not play Cage's games (I'm a PC gamer)I do feel that this article does have a point; with the concentration on FPS's and the like, game publishers are not promoting hard to classify and indie games are far as they can. There is of course reasons for this, thesekind of games are unlikely to make the massive returns that publishers desire even if they were heavily promoted, so they aren't promoted.

This can be seen as good both on consoles and on things like steam are ignored and forgotten because either publishers are unwilling to promoted them or like on steam the publishers are doing it direct and therefore are too small to afford a promotional campagin of any scale.

I don't think it's lack of promotion I think it's more lack of the fact it's a big pile of QTEs (and if i remember right Indigo Prophecy is on the PC, so do some bloody research before making a claim like that). Heavy Rain didn't look bad but from what I played it wasn't a game that was compelling not like Phoenix Wright or Etrian Odyssey, which didn't get much of any promotion's from Capcom. But I agree on the no promoting thing, Sega released Phantasy Star Portable 2 on the PSP and it did not sell well at all and I blame poor promoting, I could only find ONE trailer and it was introducing the story people and no gameplay at all. And when it didn't sell well it was because of piracy as they say.

I agree on Indigo Prophecy being a fucking stupid name.

But I played that game, and yeah it started out fine. It was new. It was interesting. Then the story got properly introduced and I was completely put off. It was absolute shite. Maybe writing a good story would help?

I can't comment on his other games, never played them.

I can't speak for the rest of America, but I don't like his games because the writing is shit and poorly integrated with the gameplay. That's fine if you're making Doom Mario Brothers or something, but if the game's selling point is its story, it better actually be a damn good story, not the surprise robots from Indigo Prophecy or the mass of plot holes, obvious contrivances, blatant contradiction and poorly handled cliches that was Heavy Rain. I mean, as far as writing and acting goes, they weren't even good by video game standards, and that's a bar set so low you have to swim through magma to even find the thing. Also, spending more than year talking about how "mature" shouldn't mean blood and tits and then putting your lead female character in Playboy smacks of hypocrisy.

To all the people who thought Heavy Rain had a good story, I suggest you go read a book and stop being twelve.

Lord Beautiful:
They didn't sell well in America? Shocker.

Guys, I'm curious. Did those games sell well anywhere?

I bought it, a special edition version too. Wasn't really disappointed with it because I didn't set my hopes high. I do believe he has a point about marketing without guns though I'd replace "guns" with "standard game features". They're interactive movies at heart rather than games.

He does need to realise though that his "games" don't really appeal to a mass market, especially ones with some big plot holes like...

Best part of Indigo Prophecy was when my friend's Xbox crashed and the controller was still vibrating. Took like fifteen minutes to get around to turning the machine off.

I'm curious, does anyone in this thread even remember Nomad Soul?

Now Heavy Rain was great when it came to story and all that stuff. But I couldn't play it a second time. The intro is way too slow. And I already know everything that happens, since I perfected it one time through. And it was $60 for a few hours. DOnt get me wrong though. i loved the game and recommend to play it, but for full price no. And you dont need blood and guts to sell to the US. You need a game that isnt QTE.

I can't imagine any of Cage's future games will be selling any better because I won't be playing them. :( Heavy Rain was interesting. It was definitely intense and looked pretty and kept you playing long into the night. Finished the game and all you feel is pissed what with all the plot holes (I'm hardly a person to notice plot holes but these were bad).

Normally I would be a bit forgiving but what with David Cage's 'I don't have to explain shit' attitude from a previous article he was in, I honestly don't think his stories will improve any time soon. And then he'll use this argument again when people wise up to him.

And it is because it was not supported that I can't find a copy of Omikron anywhere. That seems to be a flipping of cause and effect. They underpublished because they thought they'd undersell, so the game was undermarketed and didn't sell many copies. The only way I heard of it was through a demo that came with my PC copy of Tomb Rader Gold.

Maybe Gamers in the US don't play games to feel depressed. Maybe we play games for FUN, for ENTERTAINMENT. Why would I want to live out a fantasy where my entire life got fucked 6 ways from Sunday? That's not a game, that's a novel or dramatic movie.

I sure as hell never picked up a game thinking "WOW!! This looks so sad and depressing! This is gonna be awesome!".

thefreeman0001:
theres a typo in the article

David Cage doesn't make "normal" games.

it should be David Cage doesn't make "good" games.

Oh yea, that too.

Crappy story, more interactive film than actual game, no real replay value... Yes, this is obviously not his fault.

Whats that? Your movies didn't make much money or get you a award.. Oh well, next time try making a game.

Well, at least he's blaming marketers instead of gamers.

Though the audacity involved here is pretty staggering. Especially since several of his games have been reviewed as less-than-stellar (Fahrenheit, for instance, is widely known to really break down after about the midpoint).

Also, there is a huge difference between story-driven games and games that just aren't games. Making a "choose your adventure" movie is not the same thing as making a story-driven game.

I loved the execution of Indigo Prophecy right up until the plot fell apart in the middle. I really wish it had held together, and I was livid when the story degraded into simian fecal smears on a script page.

On the other hand, I would've played Heavy Rain if I had a PS3 or if it were on 360. As it stands, I won't be able to afford Skyrim on release day, let alone a new console.

Moral of the story: your game design is fine, I'd love to play another interactive movie so long as you HIRE SOMEONE FUCKING COMPETENT TO WRITE IT! *whew* OK, I'm better now.

It may be the fact that his games kinda suck, much as I loved Fahrenheit it did go from cool detective mystery to batshit insane at the end.

Gnoupi:

Shameless:
Here is how to make your games sell in the US Mr.Cage, make them into actual games rather than a QTE fest with a plot with more holes than a sponge.

And when you have holes in your plot, please don't fill them with a combination of conspiracy/ancient Mayan curse/sentient AI/army secrets/Matrix fights/Hadouken. Really. Especially when you started with a relatively intriguing premise.

I remember some DBZ action in there too.

Indigo Prophecy started so good, and around the end it just turned to complete shit no matter which alternate ending you got. You'd think with so many ending at least 1 of them would be good, but no =/

I love how everyone seems to have read the thread title and gone 'well fuck you and your shit games' rather knee-jerkishly and completely unfairly.

He wasn't calling Americans, he said that the marketing departments don't have enough faith in anything that isn't 'boom, bang bang, rattttatatatatata!' because they have low estimations of you. You can't really argue that this isn't true. Publishers back what they think will work. Which usually means they back a lot of similar things.

Now don't be silly, you all know perfectly well that 'Heavy Rain' was at the very least, interesting, and should probably have sold more than it did.

If I had a pound for the amount of times I see people on here complaining that they're wading through a sea of 'samey, grit brown shooters.' I'd have more pounds than Gabe Newell (take that however you like). Yet when a genuinely unique game comes out and tests the water. You all seem to bitch and moan that it isn't a conventional game.

frankly, I don't get you.

I bought and enjoyed the shit out of Heavy rain. It was a unique experience and I want more games like it.

As pretentious as David Cage is, part of me wonders if he has a point.

I find it hilarious how people call Cliff Blezinski a douchebag with people like Cage around.

Does he count all the non-violent games that sell well in America? Wasn't minecraft successful despite not even having any official marketing?

Oh yes, it's never your fault when your game doesn't do well, is it? It's always the fault of others. Here's an idea, take some responsibility, you'll be so much better for it.

Nope, they're fine. Learn how to make non-shit walking controls, though.

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