56% of American Gamers Don't Buy Games

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 NEXT
 

Normandyfoxtrot:

TheDooD:

4173:
snip

I didn't say they need to give me a damn thing. It's just they need not to bitch when I choose to buy their game used when it was too damn expensive for me to buy it new. If Publishers want people to buy new they need to sell cheap and stop treating those that buy used, rent, and or share games like they stole money out their pockets.

Just for curiosities sake what price do you think a Triple A title should go at you know with the mulit-year development and total costs being over 500million dollars?

wut

http://www.digitalbattle.com/2010/02/20/top-10-most-expensive-video-games-budgets-ever/

Granted it's slightly dated, but there's never been a video game that's cost that much to develop -- not even close.

EDIT:

You also posted they were spending up to 300 million on advertising? COULD reach 50 million, which btw is not following precedent.

http://bf3blog.com/2011/07/battlefield-3-marketing-budget-to-top-50-million/

Actual game production?

Battlefield 3′s budget is rumored to be around $25 million.

The games don't need to be AAA to be good; frankly, if AAA companies are seriously having trouble making money, there will always being independents more than willing to forge their way into the business.

When I saw the title I thought it was going to be about how people were turning to renting games from Gamefly or Blockbuster than buying it. I just ended up getting confused. I know that game publishers don't like used games. It's just like how book publishers don't like used books

Zeriah:

How can the devs'/publishers' offer a better deal than Gamestop's used sales when any decrease in price will be easily matched by Gamestop (since Gamestop will be spending less on buying the used copies)?

How much does Gamestop give you for your used game now? I'm not sure, since I keep my old games, but here's an estimate for me to work with... Ten bucks, and then they sell it for fifteen. Does that sound about right? A bit generous, actually... I think they fleece you worse than that.

How much less could they offer you for that game and still have it be worthwhile for you to go in and sell it? My guess is... not much. Not much at all. Some people would still sell it for five or even two, of course, but there would be fewer of them... and then there would be fewer used copies to sell.

Suddenly, if you want a used copy of the game you have to get lucky, or wait for it. And with a new game selling for 30 rather than 60, if they don't have the used game there and waiting, you'll spring for the new one.

NaramSuen:

Odd Water:
I bought a used house. I've had a few used cars in my life. Some of my clothes when I was younger were preowned by other family members. I bought some used furniture. The entire concept of not buying new is because not everyone wants to spend the full money for buying new, when used or preowned handles your needs perfectly well. Now of course not everyone has to do that, obviously someone has to buy new, or the items won't get out there on the market at all.

Seriously, why is the gaming market the only place I ever hear about the 'evils' of buying used?

A rare sane voice!

I grew up wearing hand-me-downs and shopping at the used bookstore. Silly me, I didn't realize that I was single-handedly destroying the clothing and publishing industries.

The people that fuss over how people should only buy new, I wonder how many also have other used things like homes, cars, etc.

Draech:

Irridium:

Draech:

It simple really. Because used is there as a cheaper alternative with better profit for the distributor. Therefore buying new stock is bad business. In other words you got the order wrong. People arn't buying used because new isn't available. New isn't available because people buy used.

I can find new versions of old games for just about anything on the PC. No used available. Its not that games just disappear because the publisher decided to leave them. We decided to buy the cheaper used ones and makes it pointless for them to use money on making extra stock.

That's because Publishers aren't developing games with long-term strategies in mind, only short term. It's always hype before launch, launch, then more or less no talk about that game again from the publisher. This has happened for years, far before used sales got anywhere near as big as they are now. This leaves people only able to find out about the game from either friends who let them borrow it, or used sales, which they choose because they don't want to spend lots of money on a product they know next-to-nothing about and just generally being a smart consumer.

That is bullshit

If I can find them selling 10 years after release on pc, but cant find the same game selling 10 weeks after on console. Its the same bloody game. Dont start with "its their strategy thats the problem" when the same game will have a much longer shelf life on PC.

Im calling bullshit. Dont tell me that they only market the pc side.

I'm not saying they're only marketing on the PC. I'm saying they're marketing on consoles up to and at release, then not marketing them ever again until the sequel and/or DLC comes out. The result is that the games generally fade out of the public eye, which leads to the public not buying it, which leads to sales dropping, which causes stores to stop stocking them(why stock a game that isn't selling anymore?). This can happen as soon as two months after release.

The reason games survive so long on the PC is because the PC is a long-term market. With consoles your stuff is on there as long as you keep it in the public eye. With PC's your stuff is on there until the end of the internet. The thing is though, damn near nobody is treating the PC like a long-term market. This is why I worry about a digital console market. Publishers are not the most prone to change, and I would not be surprised in the least if they use a short-term plan with a fully digital market, when they should be focusing more on the long term.

Zachary Amaranth:

One Hit Noob:
First of all, you didn't exactly copy my style of typing because I didn't cap my words in a manner that seems frighteningly rude. Second of all, when exactly did the OP say that the game market crashed?

Ah, we're relying on pedantry to cop out now.

Okay, if you don't want to seriously talk about things, don't. I only replied to your prior post because you said something silly and disingenuous in the face of other media having done the same thing you insist doesn't work. No skin off my nose if you're not even going to take your own argument seriously.

Who said I was trying to cop out? Second of all, how can it be "silly" and "disingenuous"? I tried supporting my argument with an example and logical reasoning. Your "I'm holier than thou" attitude isn't really bringing a good atmosphere to this so called "internet argument".

Zeriah:

How can the devs'/publishers' offer a better deal than Gamestop's used sales when any decrease in price will be easily matched by Gamestop (since Gamestop will be spending less on buying the used copies)? They tried by giving incentives to buy new over used with free DLC but apparently that is evil. I admit a price decrease on some games is a thing that probably should be done, especially for digital downloads. However you have yet give any reasons why that would stop the people who buy used from suddenly wanting to give up their $5 saving regardless of how low the total price goes down.

Also your point on Iphone games is pretty exaggerated, Iphone games last a couple of hours at most and have next to no development costs.

As to why more people don't pirate, well because it is Illegal? You have to have a lot of technical knowledge? People probably feel a lot more bad about it too, since they got it for free (even though I myself consider them about as bad as each other on their damage done to the industry (unless you are buying used because you can no longer find a new copy, like with older gen games), though I wont get into that here).

Well, lets just use EA as an example(good god I use them a lot...). They have their own service now, Origin. With it, they sell BOTH physical and digital products. What they should do, is but a little coupon into their retail games that gives them %40 off of their next purchase (physical OR digital) on Origin. And if you keep buying from Origin, they give you the occasional deal or if they're really crazy, any free product that's $20 or cheaper. This would cause people to buy new and from Origin for all the benefits, and to keep buying from them.

They could also have their own used game deal. Again, for both physical and digital. For physical, you could send in you're EA game, and they could add credit to your Origin account. They could easily offer more than gamestop offers. And then they could set up their own "pre-owned" section, sell them for quite a bit cheaper than Gamestop, and keep 100% of the profits. For digital copies, gamers can revoke their licences and get funds transferred to their account. EA could then set up a "discount" digital shop and sell the used licence back at a reduced cost.

Hell, they could even set up their own rental system! For physical products it could be similar to gamefly. Only instead of a monthly fee, charge $7 for a month before you have to send it back. Might not be ideal, and would need some details ironed out, but it'd be doable. For digital versions, the user could pay $5 to rent the game for 5 days. If they like it, EA could let them buy it for %10 off. If not, then the rental expires. Again, all of this done through Origin.

And if they could promise other publishers a nice chunk of the profits from this stuff if the publishers let EA put their games on Origin, then you can see similar things being done not just for EA games, but for all games.

Publishers would reap 100% of the profits, customers would get many, many options with how to play games, and it gives them reasons to not buy used. Or if they do buy used, they buy from EA who would be paying more for customer's used sales, and charging less than Gamestop.

EA could fucking dominate if they wanted. But they don't, instead they just sit back and complain.

As for other companies, well shit they could do the same(more or less). Let customers send them their used games for a chunk of money, and sell the used games themselves on their site for less than Gamestop, and get 100% of the profits(minus shipping and handling). Might not be able to do much with renting, but they already do get a cut from rentals. Well from Gamefly at least.

I do, so screw them.

Draech:

Mr Ink 5000:

Draech:

Dear Mr Ink

While the cost of a disk is low there are a lot more costs than the disk.
When everyone is paid of your 60$ we only see 27$ of them. Meanwhile a game like LA Noire cost about 100 million dollars to develop over 8 years, means that we will break even on our 8 year investment at about 3,7 million copies sold.

As you can see we are not trying to screw you over. We are just trying to stay in business.

Signed

A. Publisher

i understand there are costs, i'm saying sell at half the price and they may sell over twice as much.

If the situation is as bad as publishers make out; there are not enough consumers who believe in their business model (ie yourself and others on here) to buy the amount of games new that they would like. the consumers who'll wait for sales, go for used or borrow games ain't gonna get their minds changed and are feeling more and more penalised with each measure that comes in.

there is a recession on, at this rate we might have another video game industry crash like the 80's

But that wasn't your complaint.

Your complaint was its easy to make a cd so therefore they can sell the game to you cheaper.

I wanted to point out how much of a risk a publisher actually makes by paying people for 8 years to make a game. The pricing isn't unfair, and the profit margins arn't that insane.

If you want games to be cheaper then try to convince the publisher to go full Digital distribution. You can cut a lot of your price tag if you didn't want a CD to go with your game. Take section 8. A triple A title for 20$. Done purely by digital distribution. More game for less of your money.

ah see, here is the misunderstanding. it was a suggestion not a complaint on my part.
I'm happy importing, renting, borrowing and second hand purchasing.
I honestly wouldnt mind if nothing changed at all. I don't know what their profit marins are tbh just tired of being demonised.

Irridium:

Draech:

Irridium:

That's because Publishers aren't developing games with long-term strategies in mind, only short term. It's always hype before launch, launch, then more or less no talk about that game again from the publisher. This has happened for years, far before used sales got anywhere near as big as they are now. This leaves people only able to find out about the game from either friends who let them borrow it, or used sales, which they choose because they don't want to spend lots of money on a product they know next-to-nothing about and just generally being a smart consumer.

That is bullshit

If I can find them selling 10 years after release on pc, but cant find the same game selling 10 weeks after on console. Its the same bloody game. Dont start with "its their strategy thats the problem" when the same game will have a much longer shelf life on PC.

Im calling bullshit. Dont tell me that they only market the pc side.

I'm not saying they're only marketing on the PC. I'm saying they're marketing on consoles up to and at release, then not marketing them ever again until the sequel and/or DLC comes out. The result is that the games generally fade out of the public eye, which leads to the public not buying it, which leads to sales dropping, which causes stores to stop stocking them(why stock a game that isn't selling anymore?). This can happen as soon as two months after release.

The reason games survive so long on the PC is because the PC is a long-term market. With consoles your stuff is on there as long as you keep it in the public eye. With PC's your stuff is on there until the end of the internet. The thing is though, damn near nobody is treating the PC like a long-term market. This is why I worry about a digital console market. Publishers are not the most prone to change, and I would not be surprised in the least if they use a short-term plan with a fully digital market, when they should be focusing more on the long term.

If they fade from public then they should fade from the PC market as well. To bring marketing is none issue again.
Also I am calling bullshit because if there were no long term market, then used market wouldn't exists. To say that it only exists on PC is bullshit. Would you please tell me why there should be a long term PC market, but not a long term on console market. Its often the same customer.

The main thing is the long term market is occupied by the second hand sales. The publisher cant compete because they have much greater costs when reproducing and distributing product .

last thing. That publishers arn't willing to change their ways has no effect on whether or not its good for us/them to change to full digital. I stand by my original statement of going full digital would make a steam like service the norm on any platform and lower prices of games in general.

Draech:

If they fade from public then they should fade from the PC market as well. To bring marketing is none issue again.
Also I am calling bullshit because if there were no long term market, then used market wouldn't exists. To say that it only exists on PC is bullshit. Would you please tell me why there should be a long term PC market, but not a long term on console market. Its often the same customer.

The main thing is the long term market is occupied by the second hand sales. The publisher cant compete because they have much greater costs when reproducing and distributing product .

last thing. That publishers arn't willing to change their ways has no effect on whether or not its good for us/them to change to full digital. I stand by my original statement of going full digital would make a steam like service the norm on any platform and lower prices of games in general.

They don't fade from the PC because of the likes of Steam and GoG promoting them through their constant daily/weekly/holiday/summer sales. Not to mention storing and distributing on the PC is insanely cheaper than manufacturing disks.

And yet the digital versions still cost just as much as the physical versions. Even though the digital one is much cheaper to maintain and carries a much larger profit. Look, I'm not saying that going digital is inherently bad, but I'm saying that with how they've already demonstrated with the general prices of digital content on the PC, prices won't go down.

Or maybe they will. I don't know. The PC is a very different market compared to consoles. Maybe things will be different. But that requires me to trust the publishers to do the right thing.

Fat chance of that happening.

Irridium:

Draech:

If they fade from public then they should fade from the PC market as well. To bring marketing is none issue again.
Also I am calling bullshit because if there were no long term market, then used market wouldn't exists. To say that it only exists on PC is bullshit. Would you please tell me why there should be a long term PC market, but not a long term on console market. Its often the same customer.

The main thing is the long term market is occupied by the second hand sales. The publisher cant compete because they have much greater costs when reproducing and distributing product .

last thing. That publishers arn't willing to change their ways has no effect on whether or not its good for us/them to change to full digital. I stand by my original statement of going full digital would make a steam like service the norm on any platform and lower prices of games in general.

They don't fade from the PC because of the likes of Steam and GoG promoting them through their constant daily/weekly/holiday/summer sales. Not to mention storing and distributing on the PC is insanely cheaper than manufacturing disks.

And yet the digital versions still cost just as much as the physical versions. Even though the digital one is much cheaper to maintain and carries a much larger profit. Look, I'm not saying that going digital is inherently bad, but I'm saying that with how they've already demonstrated with the general prices of digital content on the PC, prices won't go down.

Or maybe they will. I don't know. The PC is a very different market compared to consoles. Maybe things will be different. But that requires me to trust the publishers to do the right thing.

Fat chance of that happening.

If its Steam and GoG doing the marketing then for making the games long term, then an equal Digital service on console would do the same. Again, making marketing a none issue.

Also the reason the digital copies cost the same as the physical is because the price is set by the physical, and the publisher are forced by the distributors to keep an even playing field or else they wont carry their games. When the initial sales are over Steam is often allowed to lower the price by the publisher because the distributors weight will be a lot less for long term sales (there is none). Any game without a physical product has always been a lot cheaper than one with. That is a fact. A digital sale gets a much higher profit than a physical. You should be getting them for less, but because that physical exists you cant.

But as you have seen, there have been some attempts at making pure digital version of games and experimentation on price on the PC market. Only thing holding it back is the old ways.

Get rid of physical distribution and you will lower game prices. You will give up your ability to resell, but you will get better and cheaper games.

Well, and now publishers have a choice: Make games cheaper or produce more and more elaborate measures to make legitimate gaming a hell while also increasing prices, while pirates work to undo it all.

I for one basically only buy budget titles or pre-owned games these days. I'm a student. I have to pay for rent. I can't afford to throw my money out like that, so I'd rather wait a little while until I buy my games. More importantly, however, I really despise these online registration issues being forced on us and take great care not to buy games that feature them. Made a mistake once or twice, though.

Asuka Soryu:

Garethp:

Asuka Soryu:
I don't feel any guilt for borrowing games(mind you, I borrow from a friend for PS2 and Game Cube) but honestly.

60$ for PS3

40$ for 3DS

Come on, there's no way I'm gonna spend that much on those. I don't have 60$ to constantly throw away on a video game that probably won't last me a week. Nothing like throwing away 60$

Then there's 3DS games. 40$ for remakes and ports and the umpteenth Mario games. Hell no. The 3DS is a portable GameCube with ass 3D. I've only gotten Zelda OoT and Street Fighter 4. I have no intention of paying 40$ for games that either look unappealing or sale for 10$ on eBay on older consoles. Even if you added some graphical improvements and 3D~

Damn, Nintendo. Freakin' lower the price of your games. 20$ would be perfect. I could spend 40$ much easier if I was getting two games. 40$ is just rediculous.

Read my post two down from yours. Paying that little for games is a goddamn good price in Australia

What's your point? In a warzone, I'm pretty sure you'd rather have one leg blown off then the other guy who lost both, but I'm sure you probably wouldn't suck it up and never show pain or mention it, because you know others are in worse condition.

This is such B.S. logic. Just because you pay more doesn't mean jack. How much do you have to spend? What if someone here only pays 60$, but that's all they get if they save up for 2 months, huh? Then what? They can't complain about pricing because oh no, someone pays more somewhere else? No, screw that.

I'm tired of this arguement. Just because you pay more doesn't make it any better for us. We aren't fucking cash cows who can dole out 60$ a game easy as that. Yeah, sure, 100$ a game is a bitch. But when did that EVER make 60$ cheap as air? Hell, don't Australian's get payed more then American's? Perhaps you can work out a way where you get payed less and they lower the price of games. Sound good?

I don't have money to blow constantly on 60$ games. A 100$ price tag doesn't mean jack to me, because I can't even justify it at 60$

You know, just because you're getting screwed over doesn't make it better for the rest of us.

I refuse to accept that damn logic. What if there's a place that costs more for games then Australia? What if they pay double what you pay? Will you then never complain about a 130$ game as long as someone else has to pay 200$?

I get paid $30K a year. After paying rent and bills, that's not exactly much.

As towards your argument, people in here are raging over $60 a game, when they should be happy because It's just $60 dollars for a new game. For fucks sake. You guys aren't getting ripped off, you guys have it fucking great. Your anology isn't correct, it's more like having a nice house, good food, clean water, education, fast internet, then looking at what people live like in India and complaining that you don't have the money to buy every single game as it's new.

It's not a matter of it's being bad, you guys have good prices. Fucking great prices. And you complain they aren't good enough?

Even if buying used games or swapping games between your friends does screw over developers.. why the f**k am I meant to care that they chose a really rubbish business model.. the industry of Tescos or Wall-mart doesn't suffer because many people use a different store to them..

Developers and whoever gets affected by used games or swapping them needs to find a way around their problem because it is their problem not the customers..

And they should not do this on the steam model of selling you a game once, for one computer.. for the rest of time.. seriously it sucks not being able to trade in Black Ops..

Draech:
Get rid of physical distribution and you will lower game prices. You will give up your ability to resell, but you will get better and cheaper games.

This I will never believe. The same thing applies to every other industry; every publisher, corporation, etc. is always looking for ways to cut costs while either keeping the same market price for their products, and/or occasionally raise prices to see what they can get away with. With video games, the price will likely rise (with EA or Activision leading the way with $65+ games with approximately half the content games currently have while selling the rest as downloadable or disk-locked content).

Kevlar Eater:

Draech:
Get rid of physical distribution and you will lower game prices. You will give up your ability to resell, but you will get better and cheaper games.

This I will never believe. The same thing applies to every other industry; every publisher, corporation, etc. is always looking for ways to cut costs while either keeping the same market price for their products, and/or occasionally raise prices to see what they can get away with. With video games, the price will likely rise (with EA or Activision leading the way with $65+ games with approximately half the content games currently have while selling the rest as downloadable or disk-locked content).

Then please go not believe a games like Savage 2 or Section 8 exists. or for a matter afact any game that experiments with payment method (free to play games).

That you dont believe in them doesn't make them not exist.

Lord Kloo:
Even if buying used games or swapping games between your friends does screw over developers.. why the f**k am I meant to care that they chose a really rubbish business model.. the industry of Tescos or Wall-mart doesn't suffer because many people use a different store to them..

Finally we're moving the discussion forward, thank you. I've been meaning to ask something similar -- assuming so-called "losses" due to reselling and trading (protip, "not getting" does not equal "losing", outside of an explicit contract which does not exist between consumers and industry) how would they justify mugging retailers, or laying pay traps and kill switches for customers?

Developers and whoever gets affected by used games or swapping them needs to find a way around their problem because it is their problem not the customers..

You said it, although they have found a way; let's amend that to "a fair way". Here's one that's not said enough: cut the fucking budget. As the Wii shows, a majority of users will rather have simple graphics, toon physics, and 2.1 stereo sound than pay current "hardcore" game prices, as long as the talent behind the game can make it look and feel nonetheless good.

And they should not do this on the steam model of selling you a game once, for one computer.. for the rest of time.. seriously it sucks not being able to trade in Black Ops..

It does, and there is always the risk of losing your games on the digital store's whim. But Steam gives you so much convenience in return and remained steady for so long that its users don't worry much at all. Imagine that, good service wins consumer trust.

I see there's no distinction between "new" used games and "old" used games which is something very important to look at. There's a lot of stuff that was made several years ago that people at the time couldn't or didn't buy new. I know probably around 80% of my game budget is spent on used games purely because I buy a lot of PS1-2-P games that I couldn't get new now even if I wanted to, or, if I did, I'd be 150%+ of it's actual retail value. Not to mention, the vast majority of what comes out for modern gen consoles is absolute garbage. I had more fun playing PS2 game than ANYTHING I've gotten for my PS3 in the past year. Heck, I had more fun on Cthulhu Saves the World, an indie game I got for less than $2, than any $60 AAA title.

And again, making games worth keeping or rewarding the people who buy new rather than trying to screw the used buyers (and in doing so, also screwing the people who buy new.. that you should really be endearing yourself to) would be the most effective method. Stop pumping out 8hr one-shotters. People don't want to drop $60 on a new game when they know in a week they'll be able to buy it used for $50 or less cause people will buy it, beat it in a few days, then dump it since there's no reason not to. Work to improve the quality of the actual game release instead of making up throw-away DLC or other schemes to make up for the used sales.

Draech:

Irridium:

Draech:

If they fade from public then they should fade from the PC market as well. To bring marketing is none issue again.
Also I am calling bullshit because if there were no long term market, then used market wouldn't exists. To say that it only exists on PC is bullshit. Would you please tell me why there should be a long term PC market, but not a long term on console market. Its often the same customer.

The main thing is the long term market is occupied by the second hand sales. The publisher cant compete because they have much greater costs when reproducing and distributing product .

last thing. That publishers arn't willing to change their ways has no effect on whether or not its good for us/them to change to full digital. I stand by my original statement of going full digital would make a steam like service the norm on any platform and lower prices of games in general.

They don't fade from the PC because of the likes of Steam and GoG promoting them through their constant daily/weekly/holiday/summer sales. Not to mention storing and distributing on the PC is insanely cheaper than manufacturing disks.

And yet the digital versions still cost just as much as the physical versions. Even though the digital one is much cheaper to maintain and carries a much larger profit. Look, I'm not saying that going digital is inherently bad, but I'm saying that with how they've already demonstrated with the general prices of digital content on the PC, prices won't go down.

Or maybe they will. I don't know. The PC is a very different market compared to consoles. Maybe things will be different. But that requires me to trust the publishers to do the right thing.

Fat chance of that happening.

If its Steam and GoG doing the marketing then for making the games long term, then an equal Digital service on console would do the same. Again, making marketing a none issue.

Also the reason the digital copies cost the same as the physical is because the price is set by the physical, and the publisher are forced by the distributors to keep an even playing field or else they wont carry their games. When the initial sales are over Steam is often allowed to lower the price by the publisher because the distributors weight will be a lot less for long term sales (there is none). Any game without a physical product has always been a lot cheaper than one with. That is a fact. A digital sale gets a much higher profit than a physical. You should be getting them for less, but because that physical exists you cant.

But as you have seen, there have been some attempts at making pure digital version of games and experimentation on price on the PC market. Only thing holding it back is the old ways.

Get rid of physical distribution and you will lower game prices. You will give up your ability to resell, but you will get better and cheaper games.

1. crappy internet..alot of people have it, alot of people dont want to wait days to download a game

2. not actually having much controll over somthing you purchased

3. if you take care of your physical copies there less chance for problems, with downloads it can be pure luck...every fucking time Ive tries to download beyond good and evil on PSN its corrupted and i have no Idea why...if somthing downloads too slowly its corruptes (so goes my theory)

digital distribution may be the way of the future (though physical copies may hang around...plus you never know, thats just pure speculation on anyones part) but untill the world fixes its internet issues I dont see it being the best option for everyone

my point is for me (and I imagine other people physical copies are the better way to get their games

plus I dont want my choices as a consumer limited, PLUS fuck it, I wont stop buying used games untill it becomes illigal.. (that said I spend plently on new games)

Garethp:

Asuka Soryu:

Garethp:

Read my post two down from yours. Paying that little for games is a goddamn good price in Australia

What's your point? In a warzone, I'm pretty sure you'd rather have one leg blown off then the other guy who lost both, but I'm sure you probably wouldn't suck it up and never show pain or mention it, because you know others are in worse condition.

This is such B.S. logic. Just because you pay more doesn't mean jack. How much do you have to spend? What if someone here only pays 60$, but that's all they get if they save up for 2 months, huh? Then what? They can't complain about pricing because oh no, someone pays more somewhere else? No, screw that.

I'm tired of this arguement. Just because you pay more doesn't make it any better for us. We aren't fucking cash cows who can dole out 60$ a game easy as that. Yeah, sure, 100$ a game is a bitch. But when did that EVER make 60$ cheap as air? Hell, don't Australian's get payed more then American's? Perhaps you can work out a way where you get payed less and they lower the price of games. Sound good?

I don't have money to blow constantly on 60$ games. A 100$ price tag doesn't mean jack to me, because I can't even justify it at 60$

You know, just because you're getting screwed over doesn't make it better for the rest of us.

I refuse to accept that damn logic. What if there's a place that costs more for games then Australia? What if they pay double what you pay? Will you then never complain about a 130$ game as long as someone else has to pay 200$?

I get paid $30K a year. After paying rent and bills, that's not exactly much.

As towards your argument, people in here are raging over $60 a game, when they should be happy because It's just $60 dollars for a new game. For fucks sake. You guys aren't getting ripped off, you guys have it fucking great. Your anology isn't correct, it's more like having a nice house, good food, clean water, education, fast internet, then looking at what people live like in India and complaining that you don't have the money to buy every single game as it's new.

It's not a matter of it's being bad, you guys have good prices. Fucking great prices. And you complain they aren't good enough?

xD 30,000? Then back down baby, I average 10,800$ a year.

I have after all my expenses, 400$ for luxury and grocceries a month. :3

So, now that we've crushed your 'I'm poor, wah" arguement, let's begin.

Your analogies even worse. I mean, really? That's how you see it? Then you're just a brat. You see someone has a little better and you act like if them not enjoying expensive things is is sick, wrong and proof they are the devil because you pay a bit more? Gawd.

And frak no, 60$ isn't a good price. Say there's an item for 30$, I charge 60$ for it. That's a good deal though, because the other guy charges 100$ for it? No. It makes both prices expensive and a rip off.

Ugh, and I'm really really sick of Australian's like you bitching about their prices and acting like they're some person dieing on the streets looking at a rich man complaining he didn't get 10000$ for something.

You know, I get it, people bitch about 60$ and you guys have to pay 100$ But that doesn't give you the right to act like you're the only ones who deserve to complain.

I figure you should be happy to play a new gen game, my friend can't even afford a game console where he lives.

Fuck their profits...they need to start making games that are actually good and not just re hashes of the same old shit.

People will buy new if it's genuinely good. As evidenced by the last 20 years of game sales.

I never grasped the concept of NEW GAME - I MUST HAVE NOW applied to many AAA games each year. You see it in many comments, and maybe acted yourself on the lines of for example "I'm going to get Battlefield 3, modern warfare 3, skyrim, saints row 3, dark souls etc etc etc at launch, but I am going to poor :( ", I mean can you really play through all those games before next years release line of more AAA games?

I tend buy couple games at launch which occupy me for for quite a long peroid, then get the games I wanted next couple months down the line new but at a much reduced price, no hassle with online passes, no hassle with launch day bugs and have time to play

Vault101:

Draech:

Irridium:

They don't fade from the PC because of the likes of Steam and GoG promoting them through their constant daily/weekly/holiday/summer sales. Not to mention storing and distributing on the PC is insanely cheaper than manufacturing disks.

And yet the digital versions still cost just as much as the physical versions. Even though the digital one is much cheaper to maintain and carries a much larger profit. Look, I'm not saying that going digital is inherently bad, but I'm saying that with how they've already demonstrated with the general prices of digital content on the PC, prices won't go down.

Or maybe they will. I don't know. The PC is a very different market compared to consoles. Maybe things will be different. But that requires me to trust the publishers to do the right thing.

Fat chance of that happening.

If its Steam and GoG doing the marketing then for making the games long term, then an equal Digital service on console would do the same. Again, making marketing a none issue.

Also the reason the digital copies cost the same as the physical is because the price is set by the physical, and the publisher are forced by the distributors to keep an even playing field or else they wont carry their games. When the initial sales are over Steam is often allowed to lower the price by the publisher because the distributors weight will be a lot less for long term sales (there is none). Any game without a physical product has always been a lot cheaper than one with. That is a fact. A digital sale gets a much higher profit than a physical. You should be getting them for less, but because that physical exists you cant.

But as you have seen, there have been some attempts at making pure digital version of games and experimentation on price on the PC market. Only thing holding it back is the old ways.

Get rid of physical distribution and you will lower game prices. You will give up your ability to resell, but you will get better and cheaper games.

1. crappy internet..alot of people have it, alot of people dont want to wait days to download a game

2. not actually having much controll over somthing you purchased

3. if you take care of your physical copies there less chance for problems, with downloads it can be pure luck...every fucking time Ive tries to download beyond good and evil on PSN its corrupted and i have no Idea why...if somthing downloads too slowly its corruptes (so goes my theory)

digital distribution may be the way of the future (though physical copies may hang around...plus you never know, thats just pure speculation on anyones part) but untill the world fixes its internet issues I dont see it being the best option for everyone

my point is for me (and I imagine other people physical copies are the better way to get their games

plus I dont want my choices as a consumer limited, PLUS fuck it, I wont stop buying used games untill it becomes illigal.. (that said I spend plently on new games)

I am mainly just promoting it because it will make the games cheaper and put the profits made into the hands of those whos job it is to make more games.

To me digital distribution is like the car taking over for the horse. We may not have the roads to handle the cars yet everywhere, but we are getting there.

The thing is so many here are bloody greedy. Its all about the developers/publishers should take less of a cut so we can get a physical product cheaper rather than us giving up the physical product so we can get it cheaper. We want our cake and eat it to. I am willing to give up the physical copies for a 30% price reduction (estimate). I can only speak for myself thou. I am well aware that even if there is perfect set up with no back draws from internet or file corruptions there will still be customers who insist on having a physical product or not buy at all.

On a note thou. Your point 3 you really shouldn't use. Its anecdotal evidence. It carries as much weight as me saying "my CDs were scratched so Physical has more problems than digital". Just saying. Its a none argument.

As a final thought. I dont mind anyone buying used. I dont want to leave the impression I am a crusader against used games. I am a crusader for digital distribution. The publisher set up the system and people are using it to the best of their ability to get the best deal. Nothing wrong with that. Now I do have a problem with people whining when the publishers want to change the system. Its their right to do so. Its their product. People will start self entitled whines about what they deserve and that the publisher are being greedy while they were trying to get as many games as possible for the money rather than the publishers getting as much money for the games as possible.

Anyway I have rambled on long enough. My point was I think we will be better served with full digital. Better games cheaper.

Draech:

Vault101:

Draech:

If its Steam and GoG doing the marketing then for making the games long term, then an equal Digital service on console would do the same. Again, making marketing a none issue.

Also the reason the digital copies cost the same as the physical is because the price is set by the physical, and the publisher are forced by the distributors to keep an even playing field or else they wont carry their games. When the initial sales are over Steam is often allowed to lower the price by the publisher because the distributors weight will be a lot less for long term sales (there is none). Any game without a physical product has always been a lot cheaper than one with. That is a fact. A digital sale gets a much higher profit than a physical. You should be getting them for less, but because that physical exists you cant.

But as you have seen, there have been some attempts at making pure digital version of games and experimentation on price on the PC market. Only thing holding it back is the old ways.

Get rid of physical distribution and you will lower game prices. You will give up your ability to resell, but you will get better and cheaper games.

1. crappy internet..alot of people have it, alot of people dont want to wait days to download a game

2. not actually having much controll over somthing you purchased

3. if you take care of your physical copies there less chance for problems, with downloads it can be pure luck...every fucking time Ive tries to download beyond good and evil on PSN its corrupted and i have no Idea why...if somthing downloads too slowly its corruptes (so goes my theory)

digital distribution may be the way of the future (though physical copies may hang around...plus you never know, thats just pure speculation on anyones part) but untill the world fixes its internet issues I dont see it being the best option for everyone

my point is for me (and I imagine other people physical copies are the better way to get their games

plus I dont want my choices as a consumer limited, PLUS fuck it, I wont stop buying used games untill it becomes illigal.. (that said I spend plently on new games)

I am mainly just promoting it because it will make the games cheaper and put the profits made into the hands of those whos job it is to make more games.

To me digital distribution is like the car taking over for the horse. We may not have the roads to handle the cars yet everywhere, but we are getting there.

The thing is so many here are bloody greedy. Its all about the developers/publishers should take less of a cut so we can get a physical product cheaper rather than us giving up the physical product so we can get it cheaper. We want our cake and eat it to. I am willing to give up the physical copies for a 30% price reduction (estimate). I can only speak for myself thou. I am well aware that even if there is perfect set up with no back draws from internet or file corruptions there will still be customers who insist on having a physical product or not buy at all.

On a note thou. Your point 3 you really shouldn't use. Its anecdotal evidence. It carries as much weight as me saying "my CDs were scratched so Physical has more problems than digital". Just saying. Its a none argument.

As a final thought. I dont mind anyone buying used. I dont want to leave the impression I am a crusader against used games. I am a crusader for digital distribution. The publisher set up the system and people are using it to the best of their ability to get the best deal. Nothing wrong with that. Now I do have a problem with people whining when the publishers want to change the system. Its their right to do so. Its their product. People will start self entitled whines about what they deserve and that the publisher are being greedy while they were trying to get as many games as possible for the money rather than the publishers getting as much money for the games as possible.

Anyway I have rambled on long enough. My point was I think we will be better served with full digital. Better games cheaper.

Im still not convinced, I dont like the Idea of having less control over what I buy (PC aside, with the currnt systm, I buy a game, its mine for as long as i can keep the hardware running its not upto a server or an online service..) plus I dont see the price going down "that" significantly

I dont buy the physical copy because its cheaper (in fact i spent alot more on new than i do used) and I dont complain about having to be more because Im in Aus, I can afford it

bottom line is...its not my problem, I am a consumer and I will take what ever legal options and choice are availible to me as is my right...to you that may seem entitled but I dont see why gaming has to be "special" compared to other industrys

its sad that I cant plays games with somone in the same room as much..and its even more sad the Idea that I cant lend a freind a copy of a game...could you imagine if they took away the ability to do that with other products? DVD's. toys....

you have probably already seen it but the jimquisitions video on the topic has some good points

One Hit Noob:
Who said I was trying to cop out? Second of all, how can it be "silly" and "disingenuous"? I tried supporting my argument with an example and logical reasoning. Your "I'm holier than thou" attitude isn't really bringing a good atmosphere to this so called "internet argument".

Hey, if you're not going to be serious, That's fine.

Just don't expect me to be. Claiming "holier than thou" is as silly as claiming the "tone" of my toneless internet post was different.

Sorry, but if you really want the last word, I'll let you have it.

Vault101:

Draech:

Vault101:

1. crappy internet..alot of people have it, alot of people dont want to wait days to download a game

2. not actually having much controll over somthing you purchased

3. if you take care of your physical copies there less chance for problems, with downloads it can be pure luck...every fucking time Ive tries to download beyond good and evil on PSN its corrupted and i have no Idea why...if somthing downloads too slowly its corruptes (so goes my theory)

digital distribution may be the way of the future (though physical copies may hang around...plus you never know, thats just pure speculation on anyones part) but untill the world fixes its internet issues I dont see it being the best option for everyone

my point is for me (and I imagine other people physical copies are the better way to get their games

plus I dont want my choices as a consumer limited, PLUS fuck it, I wont stop buying used games untill it becomes illigal.. (that said I spend plently on new games)

I am mainly just promoting it because it will make the games cheaper and put the profits made into the hands of those whos job it is to make more games.

To me digital distribution is like the car taking over for the horse. We may not have the roads to handle the cars yet everywhere, but we are getting there.

The thing is so many here are bloody greedy. Its all about the developers/publishers should take less of a cut so we can get a physical product cheaper rather than us giving up the physical product so we can get it cheaper. We want our cake and eat it to. I am willing to give up the physical copies for a 30% price reduction (estimate). I can only speak for myself thou. I am well aware that even if there is perfect set up with no back draws from internet or file corruptions there will still be customers who insist on having a physical product or not buy at all.

On a note thou. Your point 3 you really shouldn't use. Its anecdotal evidence. It carries as much weight as me saying "my CDs were scratched so Physical has more problems than digital". Just saying. Its a none argument.

As a final thought. I dont mind anyone buying used. I dont want to leave the impression I am a crusader against used games. I am a crusader for digital distribution. The publisher set up the system and people are using it to the best of their ability to get the best deal. Nothing wrong with that. Now I do have a problem with people whining when the publishers want to change the system. Its their right to do so. Its their product. People will start self entitled whines about what they deserve and that the publisher are being greedy while they were trying to get as many games as possible for the money rather than the publishers getting as much money for the games as possible.

Anyway I have rambled on long enough. My point was I think we will be better served with full digital. Better games cheaper.

Im still not convinced, I dont like the Idea of having less control over what I buy (PC aside, with the currnt systm, I buy a game, its mine for as long as i can keep the hardware running its not upto a server or an online service..) plus I dont see the price going down "that" significantly

I dont buy the physical copy because its cheaper (in fact i spent alot more on new than i do used) and I dont complain about having to be more because Im in Aus, I can afford it

bottom line is...its not my problem, I am a consumer and I will take what ever legal options and choice are availible to me as is my right...to you that may seem entitled but I dont see why gaming has to be "special" compared to other industrys

its sad that I cant plays games with somone in the same room as much..and its even more sad the Idea that I cant lend a freind a copy of a game...could you imagine if they took away the ability to do that with other products? DVD's. toys....

you have probably already seen it but the jimquisitions video on the topic has some good points

Actually I saw the Jimquisitions and those 3 episodes is what made me want to never watch him again. So much whine, double standard and downright false info.
Here are the 3 most obvious ones

Episode one he makes 3 lose points that used is good for the publishers, then to go in episode 2 that its a counter measure we have to counter bad games. What is it Jim? Good for them or bad for them?

He suggest that only bad games gets sold again. I guess I cant find Deus Ex in the used market a week after release even thou he loved that game. Are you telling me Deus Ex is bad?

He whines that publishers dont follow the concepts of ownership when they wont sell us while forgetting that he has no right to tell them to sell. After all. He doesn't own it.

They are by far his worst self righteous bullshit episodes. Nothing by emotional pleading. It become so obvious by the last one where he tries to demonise it into "kotick" style char who just want more, while knowing full well that Kotick will always get paid. Its the development teams that get the knife. The best point he can come up with is that the counter measure for used sales are a slight inconvenience. Thats a first world problem if I ever saw one. You are better off not watching that at all.

Anyway if I cant make you believe that a digital product s cheaper than a physical product then I have nothing. Go look at the numbers yourself. When you buy a 60 dollar game (since you are an Aussie I dont know the numbers there. You might have to do the math yourself.) about 27 Dollars goes back in the pocket of the publisher (/developer depending on how you look at it). That means 33 dollars are being spend on distribution licences and production. You can remove alot of that by going full digital.

On the "special" part of your argument
Every industry is special. Every industry makes business plans for how to ensure profits. If gaming have to remove used to make profit then that is that. You cant compare industries. They have different sources of income and methods. Same factor will have different effects on different industries. Rising fuel prices will effect every industry, but not every industry equally. Its the gaming industries job to make the best of what they got.

Zachary Amaranth:

One Hit Noob:
Who said I was trying to cop out? Second of all, how can it be "silly" and "disingenuous"? I tried supporting my argument with an example and logical reasoning. Your "I'm holier than thou" attitude isn't really bringing a good atmosphere to this so called "internet argument".

Hey, if you're not going to be serious, That's fine.

Just don't expect me to be. Claiming "holier than thou" is as silly as claiming the "tone" of my toneless internet post was different.

Sorry, but if you really want the last word, I'll let you have it.

I think we are both having a misunderstanding here. From my first post, you took my post as "silly" and "ingenuous" and replied back in a certain parellelism. Me finding it rude, replied back asserting you as a certain smartass. How about we make amends before this ends?

I borrowed RAGE, a couple of weeks ago from a friend, less borrowed, more he just left it here and I kept it.
I was kinda disappointed by the lack of the sewer sections since he'd already used the promotion code but in fairness I finished it in two days in the barest possible sense so I don't know why I'm complaining about having more side missions on top of the ones I hadn't bothered to do already.

I lent him Dead Rising 2 in return; he hasn't actually played it yet.

I think what I'm trying to say here is that I have nothing against borrowing games, the effects aren't nearly as extreme as piracy and if you happen to be as OCD as me, the regret of not having the DLC will always guilt trip you.

Why i don't buy as much games:
I don't play console games
I don't play crappy ports
I don't pay for crappy DLC
I don't have time to play more than 3-4 games per year.

MW3 = Call of Duty 4 Map Pack 3

Damn, everyone here seems to be on piracy or used games, and I thought the big topic would be:

"Australia - a course in how to lose millions in tax revenue by banning parts of the biggest entertainment industry in the world because your government thinks it knows better than everyone else"

I don't know the figures for Aus, but in the UK, throwing some mild figures out, that I've entirely pulled out of my ass, thus following the footsteps of the original article, if Mortal Kombat sold a million copies, at 40, at 20% sales tax,VAT, that's 8 million the Government's gained from ADULTS pulling virtual heads off each other for giggles.

FOR ONE GAME.

IF the politicians get their way, they'll no doubt stop games like Battlefield 3, MW3, and in future, Saint's Row 3 and GTA 5, too. Can you imagine (let's go tabloid here) the number of schools and hospitals you could fund with the tax money gained from those games, and remember, gamers WILL buy them, they'll just buy them from other countries, sending their tax money to America or Europe instead.

As for the argument 'but once they're in homes, children will gain access to them!', ok, big guy, go ahead and ban beer on the same basis, ban beer in Australia, see how long you last before your head's on a spike outside the Sydney Opera House.

56% don't buy games and 44% are obviously lending them their licenses. This means we have to arrest EVERYBODY.

Ack, these things always try to make it sound like the developer's/publishers are starving on the street. Hell, I have plans on getting into the gaming industry (Studying to be a programmer) and I could careless about the developer's/publishers. They are being paid. I don't need to pity them. Game development is a very well paying job, which is why I plan on getting into the industry.

Not justifying piracy, even to the extent that Extra Credits made this point... but...

Perhaps some of the loss of sales is due to some games being outright banned by dicks in suits with an egomaniac problem, and then regional coding stopping aussie gamers from even importing the damned games they want to play, as rational, paying, tax producing adults.

Someone needs to open a video games mail order store like 100 meters off shore of Australia and just sell mature rated games uncut to the aussie public. And no, I've got no clue about the legal side, I just want to piss off fuckknuckle politicians who think Dead Rising should be banned but alcohol, tobacco, war and religion are just fine.

SenseOfTumour:
Not justifying piracy, even to the extent that Extra Credits made this point... but...

Perhaps some of the loss of sales is due to some games being outright banned by dicks in suits with an egomaniac problem, and then regional coding stopping aussie gamers from even importing the damned games they want to play, as rational, paying, tax producing adults.

Someone needs to open a video games mail order store like 100 meters off shore of Australia and just sell mature rated games uncut to the aussie public. And no, I've got no clue about the legal side, I just want to piss off fuckknuckle politicians who think Dead Rising should be banned but alcohol, tobacco, war and religion are just fine.

From what I understand, they couldn't stop you from selling it if you were far enough out in the water, but they could search and confiscate people coming to the shore. It would cause an international incident, that much is sure

Oh, and really classy lumping religion in with war, tobacco and alcohol.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here