Sweden Formally Recognizes Piracy as Religion

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The_root_of_all_evil:

Mimsofthedawg:

well you sound a little bitter, which is quite sad to me. :(

If the only way you can get a day off a year is by faking your religion, you'd be too.

Religions, as they stand, are a label that is wrongly used by fundamentalists to justify their own desires and governments to dish out monies, without looking at the differences between them, the good they can do and the evil they can do.

Before you even go near the Cult of Scientology.

Though the whole business is odd to me, seeing as how there is no such concept in America. One could argue that the state recognizes religious organizations by giving them tax exempt status, etc., but the fact we don't have a "Board of Religious Certification" or some odd thing speaks volumes about the cultural difference in how religion is treated in American versus Europe.

I'd be careful there; America has some religious taint that we've banished long ao. Televangelists never took hold here for that very reason.

I think people just need to recognise Religion as a Belief; not an excuse and certainly not as a target.

*sigh* my biggest problem with people like you is that you're so blinded by your beliefs you barely listen to what people say.

It's like you take every stab you can about religion.

Somehow, that just doesn't seem very loving.

And you want to know what I think the true problem with the world is? It's lacking selfless love. Compassion. Sympathy.

And most atheists are no different than Christians or Jews or Muslims.

Love is the Movement I adhere to. 'nough said.

So are the clergy of Kopimi tax exempted in sweden? XD

This is what we have always said in Norway: The swedes are batshit crazy

Then again i guess since you can't see God and he's supposed to distribute a bunch of stuff you can't see like love and compassion that certain parallells can be drawn, except you will actually get to see the fruits of online distribution and filesharing.

I should just found my own religion, really.

"The high priest will show you the way to beer, video games and rock n' roll"
"All hail!"

To quote Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Fiction:

That does it, I'm going.

you know what? If I didn't believe that there was a god and in Jesus Christ WHICH I DO!!!! ... I might just join this group. Then again I could also move to Canada which is a lot more likely.

3000 people... wow...
In Finland you need you + 9 people and go to a house in Helsinki and say, I now officially declare this as our religion = done.
Well that's a simplified version but here I could hail a rock on my backyard with 9 friends and we could get that as our religion.

Mimsofthedawg:

*sigh* my biggest problem with people like you

People like me? What sort of people are those then?

Love is the Movement I adhere to. 'nough said.

And it's a pity that you've already labelled me lost - despite having no idea what belief I have. Your selfless love doesn't extend to me?

Not terribly selfless then, is it?

I think that's pretty funny.

Anyone who claims "this is not a religion", might want to research how religion happens. Or not, I'm sure.

Mimsofthedawg:

*sigh* my biggest problem with people like you is that you're so blinded by your beliefs you barely listen to what people say.

I think the problem goes both ways.

The_root_of_all_evil:

Mimsofthedawg:

*sigh* my biggest problem with people like you

People like me? What sort of people are those then?

Love is the Movement I adhere to. 'nough said.

And it's a pity that you've already labelled me lost - despite having no idea what belief I have. Your selfless love doesn't extend to me?

Not terribly selfless then, is it?

haha, no, but "people like you" are the people who openly respond to just about everything with hostility under the assumption that anything a person says should be taken in the worst way possible.

I'm not labeling you as lost. Most people like that refuse the offer of a map.

I'd hope you're not one of them.

best religion so far IMO

Mimsofthedawg:

haha, no, but "people like you" are the people who openly respond to just about everything with hostility under the assumption that anything a person says should be taken in the worst way possible.

Hostile? How was I hostile?

I'm slightly perturbed about your holier than thou attitude, but I've shown no hostility to you.

You've sighed, pitied me and laughed. Again, where is your "selfless love"? Especially when

you're so blinded by your beliefs

you don't even know what my beliefs are. You also accuse me of taking every stab I can against religion when I say

I think people just need to recognise Religion as a Belief; not an excuse and certainly not as a target.

Are you really listening to me? Or just to what you think I'm saying.

This is the most literal application of the term "Holy shit" that I've ever been able to apply.

Are they serious? What's the point to this? This is just a massive publicity stunt that could very well undermine the validity of the piracy debate. I fully support their right to religious freedom, but this is pushing it too far. The fact remains that piracy is still illegal. What they're doing is in a similar vein as polygamists that use their religion as a shield from the law.

I like this. I like this a lot.

Don't know if it's utterly ridiculous or genius, I just know that it's awesome.

well if druidism can be recognised as a religion then i dont see why this cant, there about on par with the level of bullshit they go through to get preferential treatment

C_Topher:
Are they serious? What's the point to this? This is just a massive publicity stunt that could very well undermine the validity of the piracy debate. I fully support their right to religious freedom, but this is pushing it too far. The fact remains that piracy is still illegal. What they're doing is in a similar vein as polygamists that use their religion as a shield from the law.

Whoah whoah whoah, who are you to say polygamy is wrong? And if it is, why? Also, it's not just about piracy, even though you all make it out to be, the thing her is, that copying is the most basic form of creation, remixing, copying is so common in our culture, that it should be encouraged and not prohibited. We're not just talking piracy here, but many other things as well.

That's the problem here, the problem here is that since everyone is so obsessed with copyright and piracy, even though, both concepts are outdated, and should be reworked to fit our modern world.

All information should be shared. No exceptions. That's one thing I do believe in, if the business is not making money, adapt or die. If all information should be shared, maybe people would start using that into creating superior products and software, instead of fighting lawsuits all day... oh wait, it actually works for open source software.

AnarchistAbe:

Ugh, seriously? I mean, isn't that a tad bit of an overreaction? Since when did file-sharing = piracy anyway?

The_root_of_all_evil:

Versuvius:
This is win. Spread the word of the great Uploader! All hail the Holy Copy Paste button!

I hope this flies in the UK...

Son, we've yet to recognise Atheism officially.

Really? That's actually quite surprising considering just about every person I know or meet is an Atheist.

This just goes to show how Europe has lost touch with reality! It's like making theivery a religion or raping, because that's what these people do, they rape the industry and make shit for the rest of us honest consumers!

Taking wat is not yours is wrong! This is why pc games get crap DRM and why I every game developer adds a multiplayer function as a motivator to force you to be online to be play their damn game!!!

It just seems that logic no longer makes sense and that everything is surrendered for 'supposed' human rights.

As pointed out before, this isn't just about piracy. It's not a justification. (At least not for most of us.)
Information should be free, copied and reconfigured. I still think that personal information and certain things can be hidden or protected in some way.

De som tar sig an det missionerande uppdraget uppmanas inte bara att missionera för det här, utan även att själv, när lagen tillåter det, verka för att kod och information släpps fri.

Those who take on the missionary mandate encouraged not only to work for this, but also for himself, when permitted by law, work to code and release information.

While we would like to fight for antikopimistisk laws, the current mandates disallow outright breaking them. Piracy is superseded as allowable by the mandate to not break laws in our practice.

AnarchistAbe:
Seriously??? Seriously??? Am I the only one who feels that this is just absolutely ridiculous? I'm all for freedom of information, but this is something else entirely.

And, on that note:

image

Whilst my knee-jerk reaction is to agree wholeheartedly with you, part of me wants to see how this will fit into the whole 'SOPA' thing. Because as stupid as it may be, the SOPA bill is now effectively banning a religion...

Still make more sense than Scientology.

On a tangentical note, Kopimism (pronounced KOH-pee-MISM, not as stated in the article), is philosophically very similar to the K-Mind movement, although the latter uses disassociative hallucinogens as a metaphysical means of "information transfer".

The basic idea is that reproduction is the simplest form of memory (a scientific fact); proponents of ideas like "life=information=energy" define a higher-order memory on the structure of internet itself through the act of copying. Many of these movements (I'm including Kopimists) claim a literal interpretation, they envision a "higher-order human" that exists in the interactions between people. The internet is seen as the ultimate tool to evolve this "global consciousness" -- again these are hardly unique ideas. In fact, many scientists who claim to be "spiritual but not religious", of which there are more than one might think, share many of the foundations of these beliefs, although not in such literal interpretations. I've even met "global consciousness" believers who have adopted many of the ideas from science-fiction anime tv-series Ghost in the Shell and the philosophical Stand Alone Complex discussed therein. They are superficially similar to concepts in complex adaptive systems theory, in particular theories of self-organization in biology and physics, and by this mean they motivate them to be "true" (much as a Creationist would use "Science" to disprove science).

The point is that by denying a group who claim faith in a set of ideas that exists within other, more commonplace religions, under the rule of law these distinctions become very troublesome in a so-called liberal democracy that constitutionally guarantee freedom of religion (or equivalent, in the case of Sweden which lacks a formal constitution; the laws are not self-contained and contains explicit provisions for a vaguely specified external authority, supposedly the EU, to override the document entirely).

There is no universal measurement (ie, one that everyone would agree on) possible that could tell us what systems of faith are religions and which are not, so acknowledging all faith is obviously less likely to cause injustice and suffering among the citizenry.

That aside, this is about politics, not religion.

(PS. And yes, it certainly still makes more sense than Scientology)

I'll quote myself from a thread in the "Religion and Politics" forum:

I just thought I'd add a bit of information about the Church of Kopimism translated from their website:

The first paragraph on the page "Our Faith" describes their beliefs as: "From all to one and from one to all - and then back - exchange without beginning or end. Everything for the enjoyment of all and alls enjoyment of everything. No priviliges, no one excluded - all included. Every believer has all knowledge - all knowledge is spread by believers to all people without exception."

They believe that: All forms of information holy; The copying and spreading(?) of information is an "ethical right"; Remixing is a holier type of copying than the perfect, digital copying, as remixing is crosscopying of a multitude of information; To copy or remixing information given by another person is an act of respect and an expression of acceptance and kopimistic faith; Internets are holy; Code is law.

The three main points of the religion are: Copy and spread; All knowledge for all; What the laws of technology make possible, the laws of man must not infringe.

Note that they consider filesharing in general, not specifically piracy, a form of pastoral care. It does mean that their priests cannot be called to testify in court regarding any filesharing they've been involved in with other members of the church, but that hardly matters.

To clarify some more, to register as a religion in Sweden the following must be true:

"The purpose of the organization [there is no adequate translation for the Swedish term] is to provide a community for religious services including pastoral care. Pastoral care includes for instance joint prayer or meditation.

The organization has by-laws specifying its purpose. The by-laws also regulate how decisions are made within the organization.

The organization needs a governing council or something similar.

The organizations name needs to be distinct, and not go against tradition or common decency."

As you can see, it it's quite inclusive. If you want to rant about how the people who founded the Church of Kopimism are idiots, go ahead, but it seems bad form to complain about the Swedish government recognizing a religion which fulfills all the criteria for it to be recognized.

Edit: Regarding Kopimism getting funds from the state: They have been approved for it. To clarify, to be eligible for funds from the state, an organization needs to provide religious services, pastoral care, education and omsorg (basically care), have at least 3,000 members and uphold and strengthen the basic values society relies on. We're not talking any large sums here either, last year it was 50 million SEK, 7 million USD, divided amongst 22 organizations.

BabySinclair:

Zhukov:
Ha ha, that's kind of funny... I guess?

I do have to wonder exactly what these fine folks hope to gain out of this arrangement though.

Easy, they think that it will allow them to share information without government involvement. It's pretty smart actually. Don't know how well it would work over there (I'm in the US) but since they can call it "expression of religion," they can call the religion card should the government go after their activities.

Tried that with human sacrifice recently?

I don't think that it would work as well as you think it might. :-P

Ewyx:

C_Topher:
Are they serious? What's the point to this? This is just a massive publicity stunt that could very well undermine the validity of the piracy debate. I fully support their right to religious freedom, but this is pushing it too far. The fact remains that piracy is still illegal. What they're doing is in a similar vein as polygamists that use their religion as a shield from the law.

Whoah whoah whoah, who are you to say polygamy is wrong? And if it is, why? Also, it's not just about piracy, even though you all make it out to be, the thing her is, that copying is the most basic form of creation, remixing, copying is so common in our culture, that it should be encouraged and not prohibited. We're not just talking piracy here, but many other things as well.

That's the problem here, the problem here is that since everyone is so obsessed with copyright and piracy, even though, both concepts are outdated, and should be reworked to fit our modern world.

All information should be shared. No exceptions. That's one thing I do believe in, if the business is not making money, adapt or die. If all information should be shared, maybe people would start using that into creating superior products and software, instead of fighting lawsuits all day... oh wait, it actually works for open source software.

First, I didn't say polygamy was wrong. I merely inferred that it's illegal in a good portion of the world, just like piracy. Second, I strongly feel that this is the wrong way to approach the issue of piracy and copyrighting in this era. Making a religion out of it just comes off as a cry for attention and does nothing for the argument. I personally support the free exchange of information on a global scale. Corporations should be rewarding loyal costumers, not going after pirates with lawsuits. Finally, you may want to watch for comma splices and run on sentences in your posts.

I wonder if this will spawn a bunch of folks going door to door now, passing out flyers and asking if I wish to join the Church of Piratebay.

To quote Andrew Hussie-

"Yes

Fuck Yes

HELL FUCKING YES"

I still prefer the folk who put down "Jedi"

That's right, copying and remix... of anything. A text document, or... your Mum's phone number. Not a pirated DVD or Video Game. This religion seems to worship the internet as the means to become the All. They probably even go so far as to preach that there shouldn't even BE copy write laws as that just gets in the way of everyone becoming one.

It has nothing (probably) to do with getting Skyrim for free. Trivializing what could actually be a modern interpretation of an age-old belief smacks of sensationalism. "Sweden Formally Recognizes Piracy as Religion" is a gross oversimplification and I'm damned disappointed that the Escapist even used such a title.

That said, I don't particularly agree with Kopimism. I believe more in the Ascended Man rather than a Shared Consciousness.

---

It all boils down to this: File-Sharing is not, and should never be, piracy. In fact, the internet was INVENTED for file-sharing. Decoding a DVD so as to be distributed is piracy. Programming a No-CD crack... that's piracy. Programming a No-Steam crack; piracy. Hell, using any such a program: P.I.R.A.C.Y. But just sharing a free-ware application, or even posting a picture of yourself (which, honestly, is sharing that file)... IS NOT PIRACY.

---

Addendum: To all of you up in arms about this: I can guarantee that The Swedish government would not have recognized this religion if it was created just to satisfy some desire to have stuff. Stop taking the titles at face value. This is not a religion created to justify not paying for movies, nor was it made to further anyone's political agenda.

Trust me, no wait, DON'T just trust me. Look it up! The religion of a Shared Consciousness has been around a lot longer than Protestantism and I'll be dipped in hot oil before I see you apply the American understanding of religion and government to what is, essentially, a modern interpretation of that age old belief.

That's just stupid, and why is the state ''accepting'' religions?
I thought we were secular?

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