Namco Notices Dark Souls PC Petition

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veloper:

Ofcourse even after a few months, PC games are usually sold at a discount and that means less money. I don't think companies get excited about $5 sales trickling in years after release.

Let's not get too optimistic about sales. For triple-A blockbusters, PC sales are significant but usually behind the 360 and behind the PS3.
The biggest consideration here is that with a non-exclusive 360 game already made and on the market for quite a while, aslong as the port isn't of terrible quality, it will always make an extra profit, because it's cheap.

Don't underestimate how many people buy stuff @ DD platforms like Steam when they reduce stuff. I always like to bring the example Valve gave:

During the first sale where Valve reduced their titles by 75% their gross revenue increased by the factor of 40.

Yes, in the fist weeks / months the PC may be behind in sales. But forgetting the sales PC games make over the time (don't forget the endless backwards compability) with sales and the "problem" that we don't have a used market is not the right way of looking at the situation.

veloper:

TheKasp:

poiumty:
Much more than 70.000. The world isn't so small, and not everyone has heard of the petition, bothered to sign it or will even care until they see it on Steam.
This won't be a first-day blockbuster. But over the years, the sales will eventually come to compete with console sales just because games have so much more longevity on the PC.

They will not only compete, they will be higher. Simply because in 10 years the PC version will still be sold first hand while the console gamers have to live with second hand sales. The few console gamers that are willing to get themselfes an old console for this.

Ofcourse even after a few months, PC games are usually sold at a discount and that means less money. I don't think companies get excited about $5 sales trickling in years after release.

Let's not get too optimistic about sales. For triple-A blockbusters, PC sales are significant but usually behind the 360 and behind the PS3.
The biggest consideration here is that with a non-exclusive 360 game already made and on the market for quite a while, aslong as the port isn't of terrible quality, it will always make an extra profit, because it's cheap.

That $5 sales is an exaggeration. No AAA game will be sold at $5 unless it's in a very limited time window for a major holiday. Batman: Arkham Asylum, a game launched in 2009, still sells for 20 euros on steam.

It means less money? Less money than what? Than if everyone would just go and buy it on day 1? Yes, but is that realistic? I'd say that a steady trickle of 20 euros 3 years after release is preferable to no money at all.

PC sales may be behind for triple-A blockbusters, but most triple-A blockbusters are designed for consoles and most sales reports only consider the first few days/weeks/months of sales. Which is contrary to what we're talking about here.

poiumty:

veloper:

TheKasp:

They will not only compete, they will be higher. Simply because in 10 years the PC version will still be sold first hand while the console gamers have to live with second hand sales. The few console gamers that are willing to get themselfes an old console for this.

Ofcourse even after a few months, PC games are usually sold at a discount and that means less money. I don't think companies get excited about $5 sales trickling in years after release.

Let's not get too optimistic about sales. For triple-A blockbusters, PC sales are significant but usually behind the 360 and behind the PS3.
The biggest consideration here is that with a non-exclusive 360 game already made and on the market for quite a while, aslong as the port isn't of terrible quality, it will always make an extra profit, because it's cheap.

That $5 sales is an exaggeration. No AAA game will be sold at $5 unless it's in a very limited time window for a major holiday. Batman: Arkham Asylum, a game launched in 2009, still sells for 20 euros on steam.

I reckon most Steam sales are made during the holidays and special sales, but the $5 figure was more in response to the "10 year" quote.

It means less money? Less money than what? Than if everyone would just go and buy it on day 1? Yes, but is that realistic? I'd say that a steady trickle of 20 euros 3 years after release is preferable to no money at all.

No disagreement there. A PC port of a proven game is bound to make a couple million atleast. Question is at which threshold the company board is willing to even take their time to consider a project. Some publishers can only see potential goldmines or nothing.

veloper:

I reckon most Steam sales are made during the holidays and special sales, but the $5 figure was more in response to the "10 year" quote.

It means less money? Less money than what? Than if everyone would just go and buy it on day 1? Yes, but is that realistic? I'd say that a steady trickle of 20 euros 3 years after release is preferable to no money at all.

No disagreement there. A PC port of a proven game is bound to make a couple million atleast. Question is at which threshold the company board is willing to even take their time to consider a project. Some publishers can only see potential goldmines or nothing.

Mhm. Hopefully, the fact that they considered a port and the fact that we've attracted their attention means they're willing to think of the long term.

God, I hope it gets a PC release. I really need a good challenge. Happy pills on standby.

I can't wait for it. If it does hit the PC its a day one buy for me. Even thought I've still got like 2 bosses to beat on Demons souls (need to get that finished really.)

Although, I'd say, I've just started the Witcher II. I'm about 6 hours into it. I'd say the combat in that game once you get passed the introduction is about 4 times as hard as the Combat in Demons soul's. I know if you're smart and save happy you don't have to redo a lot. But in terms of actual difficulty. I'd say the Witcher trumps Demons soul's. I can't imagine the second one is genuinely any harder.

Fawxy:
70,000 signatures. How many actual sales do you think that would signify? 20,000? I'd say that's being generous.

I'd like to see it happen, but it still seems highly unlikely at the moment. "Wait and see," I guess.

Regardless, it's nice to see that someone's paying attention.

SurfinTaxt:
How would dark souls even work on pc? The movements are too finicky for standard wasd, and I imagine the platforming would be a nightmare... I suppose you could always use your ps3 controller, but doesnt that kind of defeat the purpose?

It allows you to play on your platform of choice, so probably not.

TheKasp:

They will not only compete, they will be higher. Simply because in 10 years the PC version will still be sold first hand while the console gamers have to live with second hand sales. The few console gamers that are willing to get themselfes an old console for this.

And nobody really cares about sales in ten years. That's not really where the money is. These perpetual sales have yet to ever set the world on fire. Or even light a match.

Marshall Honorof:
Namco Notices Dark Souls PC Petition

PC gamers who want Dark Souls still have a ways to go before their dream becomes a reality, but getting Namco's attention is definitely a big step in the right direction. With any luck, you, too, will soon have the opportunity to be roasted by dragons, poisoned by frogs, and eaten by treasure chests.

Permalink

Actually, the frogs curse you. The rats poison you.
The treasure chests are very easy to handle, just hit every chest you see before you open it.

not gonne comment on piracy or anything, just gonna say that some experiences are made for consoles, some are made for PCs, and while some of these expriences can go from one to another without much loss, some can't

Fawxy:
70,000 signatures. How many actual sales do you think that would signify? 20,000? I'd say that's being generous.

I'd like to see it happen, but it still seems highly unlikely at the moment. "Wait and see," I guess.

Actually far more. What's more likely? You sign a petition that says milk is delicious or you buy a gallon of milk?

Zachary Amaranth:
And nobody really cares about sales in ten years. That's not really where the money is. These perpetual sales have yet to ever set the world on fire. Or even light a match.

Wrong, average Jim may not, but publishers both notice and care.

Well, this is a bit of good news. I would love to see this game come to the PC. Keep the support coming!

Fawxy:
70,000 signatures. How many actual sales do you think that would signify? 20,000? I'd say that's being generous.

I'd like to see it happen, but it still seems highly unlikely at the moment. "Wait and see," I guess.

Invalid.

Piracy numbers are absolute. It is not a percentage of PC gamers, and certainly not a percentage of devoted PC gamers. It is a population that pirate everything (including large foreign contingents), and has no bearing on actual sales. Notice how similar the sales counts on the big PC games of 2011 were? That's because the people who pirated one, pirated them all. No question of whether they'd play them, no real interest in the same - just a crowd of people who download anything that looks interesting. I know - I was one once. But they are not PC gamers. They are a population of four million (give or take) pirates (as compared to forty million Steam gamers), and they are irrelevant.

PC gamers are nothing if not devoted to their craft, and the people on that list are from some of the strongest PC gaming communities out there (EG RPS). That petition wasn't signed by pirates. It was signed by eager PC gamers willing and waiting to grab this one the first chance that comes along. People like me.

Dark Souls releases on PC, I'd say at least 85% of the people on that list will buy it. Plus the people who just see it in stores, plus (if it's on Steam) hundreds of thousands if not millions more. So quit disparaging our fine group, lay aside your tired generalizations, and come to realize that we care about, and buy, our games.

omicron1:

Fawxy:
70,000 signatures. How many actual sales do you think that would signify? 20,000? I'd say that's being generous.

I'd like to see it happen, but it still seems highly unlikely at the moment. "Wait and see," I guess.

Invalid.

Piracy numbers are absolute. It is not a percentage of PC gamers, and certainly not a percentage of devoted PC gamers. It is a population that pirate everything (including large foreign contingents), and has no bearing on actual sales. Notice how similar the sales counts on the big PC games of 2011 were? That's because the people who pirated one, pirated them all. No question of whether they'd play them, no real interest in the same - just a crowd of people who download anything that looks interesting. I know - I was one once. But they are not PC gamers. They are a population of four million (give or take) pirates (as compared to forty million Steam gamers), and they are irrelevant.

PC gamers are nothing if not devoted to their craft, and the people on that list are from some of the strongest PC gaming communities out there (EG RPS). That petition wasn't signed by pirates. It was signed by eager PC gamers willing and waiting to grab this one the first chance that comes along. People like me.

Dark Souls releases on PC, I'd say at least 85% of the people on that list will buy it. Plus the people who just see it in stores, plus (if it's on Steam) hundreds of thousands if not millions more. So quit disparaging our fine group, lay aside your tired generalizations, and come to realize that we care about, and buy, our games.

Answer me this, oh omnipotent one: where did I mention piracy? Oh wait, I never did. That was you.

You just assumed that was what I was getting at, likely because of some type of persecution complex. SEE? I can jump to conclusions too!!!

You know what I was really getting at? People in general are lazy, cheap fatasses, that's what I was getting at. First-hand experience with petitions: I helped run an event for my high school, where we were campaigning to get less-restricted internet access (so much was blocked that it was for all intents and purposes non-functional). We managed 300+ signatures in a high school of 500+ people, and only about 40 actually showed up to the event. Remember, this was an issue that was so prominent that it was actively hurting peoples grades and interfering with the teaching staff's ability to do their jobs. And only a fraction of the people who FLAT-OUT SAID they would participate actually did. I have more personal examples, but I think the main point here is that petitions by and large are kind of a shit method of tracking interest. With this whole "Bring Dark Souls to PC" thing, I think it's more about people getting caught up in a movement more than anything. But, that's my opinion, and as I said: I'll wait and see. I'd still like to see it happen, but I'm not too optimistic at this point.

But since you brought up the issue of piracy:

"They are a population of four million (give or take) pirates"

"the people on that list are from some of the strongest PC gaming communities"

"That petition wasn't signed by pirates"

"It was singed by eager PC gamers willing and waiting to grab this one the first chance that comes along"

"I'd say at least 85% of the people on that list will buy it"

You know, when passing off subjective bullshit as fact in an attempt to make oneself appear superior to someone, one should at least make it at least somewhat believable.

Oh, and FYI... This statement here is uncalled for:

So quite disparaging our fine group, lay aside your tired generalizations, and come to realize that we care about, and buy, our games.

You want to know why that statement pisses me off? You want me to let you in on a little secret? I AM A PC GAMER. I LIKE PC GAMES. I BUY LOTS OF PC GAMES. Just like you.

Referring to yourself as somehow separate from me, somehow in your "own group" despite the fact that we are one in the same, is total crap. Don't do that.

SurfinTaxt:
How would dark souls even work on pc? The movements are too finicky for standard wasd, and I imagine the platforming would be a nightmare... I suppose you could always use your ps3 controller, but doesnt that kind of defeat the purpose?

As someone who plays Super Meat Boy and Street Fighter IV on keyboard, I doubt they're that bad. If they are, then allow for joystick options like every other game.

I'd buy it.

Fawxy:

Answer me this, oh omnipotent one: where did I mention piracy? Oh wait, I never did. That was you.

You just assumed that was what I was getting at, likely because of some type of persecution complex. SEE? I can jump to conclusions too!!!

You know what I was really getting at? People in general are lazy, cheap fatasses, that's what I was getting at. First-hand experience with petitions: I helped run an event for my high school, where we were campaigning to get less-restricted internet access (so much was blocked that it was for all intents and purposes non-functional). We managed 300+ signatures in a high school of 500+ people, and only about 40 actually showed up to the event. Remember, this was an issue that was so prominent that it was actively hurting peoples grades and interfering with the teaching staff's ability to do their jobs. And only a fraction of the people who FLAT-OUT SAID they would participate actually did. I have more personal examples, but I think the main point here is that petitions by and large are kind of a shit method of tracking interest. With this whole "Bring Dark Souls to PC" thing, I think it's more about people getting caught up in a movement more than anything. But, that's my opinion, and as I said: I'll wait and see. I'd still like to see it happen, but I'm not too optimistic at this point.

But since you brought up the issue of piracy:

"They are a population of four million (give or take) pirates"

"the people on that list are from some of the strongest PC gaming communities"

"That petition wasn't signed by pirates"

"It was singed by eager PC gamers willing and waiting to grab this one the first chance that comes along"

"I'd say at least 85% of the people on that list will buy it"

You know, when passing off subjective bullshit as fact in an attempt to make oneself appear superior to someone, one should at least make it at least somewhat believable.

Oh, and FYI... This statement here is uncalled for:

So quite disparaging our fine group, lay aside your tired generalizations, and come to realize that we care about, and buy, our games.

You want to know why that statement pisses me off? You want me to let you in on a little secret? I AM A PC GAMER. I LIKE PC GAMES. I BUY LOTS OF PC GAMES. Just like you.

Referring to yourself as somehow separate from me, somehow in your "own group" despite the fact that we are one in the same, is total crap. Don't do that.

Ok. I miscategorized you. Figured anyone who said something like that would be like the whiny Eurogamer "They're all pirates" crowd who said very similar things, and with whom I am rather fed up. I apologize.

My point on numbers remains, however: We're (I don't know about you, but myself and the RPS community, at the least) a passionate lot, and a group oft-burned both by pirates and by the general publishers' response thereto.
So when someone throws us a bone, by Jove we're going to bite it. This is my attitude, and this is the attitude I see at RPS. Hence at the least 60,000 direct sales, plus the long tail Steam etc. offer.

Aeonknight:
They even disabled party chat for the 360 version.

Note that "Private Chat" is still enabled an embedded into xbox live and overrides all 360 games, regardless if the game has a "no talking" policy.

I worry that the mass pirating so often found within the PC community would deliver another blow to the PC video game market. Most developers have already moved well away from the home computer as a main focus and it's no secret content released into that market is pirated to a large degree--sometimes eclipsing or coming close to equaling actual sales figures, as in the case of Star Craft 2. A company folding to pressure and releasing a game to a previously ignored market, only to then having it pirated, eating away profit from production costs and general expenditure (such as paying employees) lends little credit to the cause.

Signing a petition is one thing; putting your money where your mouth is, is another thing entirely.

Grey Day for Elcia:
I worry that the mass pirating so often found within the PC community would deliver another blow to the PC video game market. Most developers have already moved well away from the home computer as a main focus and it's no secret content released into that market is pirated to a large degree--sometimes eclipsing or coming close to equaling actual sales figures, as in the case of Star Craft 2. A company folding to pressure and releasing a game to a previously ignored market, only to then having it pirated, eating away profit from production costs and general expenditure (such as paying employees) lends little credit to the cause.

Signing a petition is one thing; putting your money where your mouth is, is another thing entirely.

Starcraft 2 sold well. They passed 3 million sales not long after release and the figures are still climbing. Blizzard games always come out on PC and they have a loyal following, so PC is more than worth it for Activision-Blizzard.

Sales are all about fans and potential fans and nobody else.

People who pirate your game don't matter in the same way people who don't play your game don't matter. People who buy your used game in trade don't matter either.
None of these majorities make the company any money, but they don't do any real harm either.

Me, I did not sign that petition. I don't believe it makes any difference as companies do what their own market research tells them, going ahead with what they were always planning to do anyway, so I'm not going to bother filling in my name and address.
Still I would buy the port, if it were any good and not a buggy mess. I reckon actual sales would be way higher than those 70000 petition signers. Not everyone bothers to sign and not everyone knows about it.

veloper:
@Veloper

I certainly don't think more harm than good would come of it. But I do worry a "less than optimal" sales figure will re-enforce a companies notion that the PC market is less of a money potential due to piracy being much more rampart there than anywhere else.

It's less of an issue of "will I make money on the PC", as it is an issue of "I can make a lot more elsewhere, and for cheaper".

But this is all just my own opinion and I could well be way off.

Grey Day for Elcia:

veloper:
@Veloper

I certainly don't think more harm than good would come of it. But I do worry a "less than optimal" sales figure will re-enforce a companies notion that the PC market is less of a money potential due to piracy being much more rampart there than anywhere else.

It's less of an issue of "will I make money on the PC", as it is an issue of "I can make a lot more elsewhere, and for cheaper".

But this is all just my own opinion and I could well be way off.

That's pretty much true. PC sales on a multiplatform release make the least money, especially during the first month when the game is judged a failure or a success.
While making a direct PC port from the 360 version is relatively cheap, anything less than 10 million dollars in estimated profit is chip change for some publishers, so not even worth their time.

veloper:
@Veloper

It's really sad that the most powerful platform, that allows for the most creativity and is not restricted by brands like Microsoft is to the 360 and Sony is to the PS3, is basically an afterthought at best nowadays. I love my consoles (the PS2 game me countless hours of fun and my 360 (before it died) hosted the most fun gaming experience I've ever had, with a Halo 3 legendary co-op marathon with a friend) but the PC is just so damn... limitless.

People can say piracy has no effect on the video game industry all they like, but the PSP and the PC beg to differ. The PSP may bot have been a great device in the eyes of some, but the *rampart* piracy was it's deathnail. I would even hazard to guess many times more UMD's were pirated than purchased. But that's just conjecture and I took this way off-topic, lol.

More on topic: a port would be great - I'd buy it if it was reasonably priced, just because I'd rather game on my PC than my PS3 and I hear Dark Souls is a vast improvement over its predecessor, which I had an odd sort of fun with. Will it happen? Looks like it could. Will it make money? Almost certainly. Will it be pirated? Yes. And that isn't what a company wants to see and that is exactly what drives them too a market that is much harder to pirate in -- the consoles. And this is all combined with the sheer fact that it's harder to make PC games due to varying system specs and the such.

"Why spend time and money porting--or worse yet, developing--for a market that is rampart with piracy and is easily eclipsed with sales by the consoles? Sure, I'll probably make money, but I could spend that time and effort on another console game, expansion, patch or update that makes more money - Every game developer ever, lol.

I will never understand why these kind of difficult games have such a rabid fanbase, or what the appeal is at all, but more power to you. I hope that you will enjoy getting your balls crushed in a vice. :P

The Human Torch:
I will never understand why these kind of difficult games have such a rabid fanbase, or what the appeal is at all, but more power to you. I hope that you will enjoy getting your balls crushed in a vice. :P

it's about doing that with a straight face....

doing well in a REALLY difficult game can be really rewarding

not doing well can be... well like having your balls crushed in a vice

some people like the challenge. I like a challenge, but not when it's just insane and bordering on impossible

Adjusting expectations

Hopes for Darks Souls coming on PC -no change-

Hopes for potential souls 3 coming on PC +1

Ooo, I was one of the earlier signatures on this petition, I'm glad it's going so well, keep up the fight fellas.

Well, I've signed it now. I still haven't played it, and if I do I'll probably do so on consoles, but I want the option and I want this great game to be available to more people.
Good to see devs hearing their community, even if whether they're actually listening will pay off.

I doubt the PC port will happen. Hacking the game on PC is easier and it would take a lot of resources on Namco's part to monitor them.

Kakashi on crack:
I got a better idea...

Lets get a giant group of hackers together to create an Xbox360 or PS3 emulator, and then use that to play em on the PC? :P

Already happened brah. Also, some people want to support a company without having to use a emulator. Which is essentially piracy since the PS3 and Xbox are still within copyright contract.

veloper:

TheKasp:

poiumty:
Much more than 70.000. The world isn't so small, and not everyone has heard of the petition, bothered to sign it or will even care until they see it on Steam.
This won't be a first-day blockbuster. But over the years, the sales will eventually come to compete with console sales just because games have so much more longevity on the PC.

They will not only compete, they will be higher. Simply because in 10 years the PC version will still be sold first hand while the console gamers have to live with second hand sales. The few console gamers that are willing to get themselfes an old console for this.

Ofcourse even after a few months, PC games are usually sold at a discount and that means less money. I don't think companies get excited about $5 sales trickling in years after release.

Let's not get too optimistic about sales. For triple-A blockbusters, PC sales are significant but usually behind the 360 and behind the PS3.
The biggest consideration here is that with a non-exclusive 360 game already made and on the market for quite a while, aslong as the port isn't of terrible quality, it will always make an extra profit, because it's cheap.

Even with less money, all of that money goes back to the developer. Lets face it here, eventually, no money from the game will come back from consoles. On a PC it will always come back, granted it will drop in price something like 20 years from now, but it will still drop in price. But in those 20 years, all of that money will be first hand, not second hand.

We go back to the fact that PC sales usually happen in a category of years, not on the first day. Consoles always need to have a large chunk of sales on the first day because, otherwise they don't make up the money.

Matt King:
If pc gamers get a dark souls port, console gamers should get a witcher 2 port (if there's been some news about this that we're geting one then sorry)

You are getting it. But you need to understand, dark souls, AT MOST has 16 or so buttons. Witcher 2 can have up to 71 buttons which you can use, granted, only about 30 or so are being used, but still, that is almost twice as much as a regular controller can handle.

I'll buy it if it goes to pc. Then I can run mods XD

First time I've seen a petition of this nature to get a response. I still remember a petition ages ago for a remake of Pokemon Yellow on top of R+B as "Lightning Yellow" or something like that.

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