Australian McDonald's Now Spraying Thieves With DNA

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Kopikatsu:
They could just install a booby trap from Indiana Jones. Hit a button and the next person to go through the door gets skewered on iron pikes.

Low tech solutions are the best solutions.

Keep your iron pikes, I want a tank filled with sharks with frickin laser beams!

Call me old fashioned, but I don't think that's okay.

You're right, it's not ok. The number of people on this forum who feel obligated to voice their opinions on matters about which they know virtually nothing is disturbing in the extreme, and you're part of the problem. Please stop. Now.

Zen Toombs:

Ultratwinkie:
I don't think its going to stop this charming fellow.

image

Unless they spray that shit outside too.

Domehammer:
Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen if used on paying customer. At least in US I could see someone walking away with millions for being sprayed with DNA...

I also believed its called sexual assault. A big no-no.

Props for the whole post.

OT: Along the same lines as Domehammer, I find this to be a bit distressing & disturbing, especially if an innocent customer accidentally gets invisible fake jizz all over them.

Jizz: Sperm cells, which happen to contain chromosomal DNA along with a VERY large amount of other stuff, suspended in semen, which happens to contain UV-fluorescent compounds along with a VERY large amount of other stuff.

This: Chromosomal DNA produced in a lab (or small chemical plant) suspended in a UV-fluorescent adhesive.

Do you ever stop to think for a minute that perhaps - JUST PERHAPS - the people who came up with this idea know a little more about this than you do, and have legal consultants who also know a little more about this than you do?

This isn't as bad as the WiFi testicles thread, but it's getting there.

RJ 17:

jonnosferatu:

RJ 17:
Actually, as a rather disturbing example, there are both men and women who are highly alergic to semen. :P

But I was refering to what happens if this DNA starts bonding with the person's DNA? I'm not saying they'll turn into some kind of mutant freak, but I'd imagine the possibility for some kind of bad reaction is there.

...oh dear.

I'm going to avoid chewing you out on this and simply say that it doesn't work like that. It's very difficult to cause any interaction between DNA sequences from different genomes (i.e. I have done this in the lab and it requires specific growth media and the use of several enzymes just to accomplish it in bacteria, which are very easy to "dope" with new genes compared to mammals), and once foreign DNA makes its way into the cell it will be broken down into individual nucleic acids very quickly outside of some fairly rare circumstances. If you want to insert genes into human cells, you (currently) (nearly) have to use RNA and a retrovirus.

No need to worry, I've already acknowledged that what I said was quite foolish.

[evidence snipped for space]

Sorry, didn't see. No worries.

jonnosferatu:
-snippity snip-

I also know that the concoction is not actually male ejaculate, and only shares superficial similarities (i.e., it contains DNA and is intended for use on other human beings). Many apologies if I upset you, I was intending much of that post as a joke. The only part of my post that was completely serious was my statement that I found the quote amusing, and that I find this concept to have SOME problems.

Edit: I also find the idea of spraying unwilling people with DNA as a mite gross, but as I said, I guess I'm a bit old fashioned.


True that murder does not happen lightly but that negates emotions, mental issues, drugs, and other factors. Seeing as one of the goals when being robbed is not to piss off the robber I see spraying them with dna as a risk. Yes I know I am not the person they intend to catch as I would plan it out, probably not a skill of the average McDonald's robber.

Same answer as Grey day not sure robbers would plan that far ahead 3 years vs life. In the heat of the moment people do all sorts of stupid stuff that increases jail time. However you seem like a person to work with on my new film how to rob an Australian McDonalds. It is a found footage type movie, you in?


Ooh eye color didn't think of that since my eyes are hazel and will change based upon clothing color. As stated above not a planned shooting but a reaction to being sprayed. Some people react violently, again I just see it as a risk. You want a part in my and Cyberjester's movie we need a getaway driver.

So many quotes I hope I didn't give the wrong person the wrong answer.

jonnosferatu:
snip

In that case, you may want to work on your critical thinking skills.

No, I think they are fine. Intact and working very well. Working better than most peoples, I wager.

Which will presumably also have the spray system installed. I've yet to encounter a McDonalds that didn't have at least 2 front doors.

I dont know, the article doesnt really specify. So both of us are just making assumption. Still - failing the back door, you could still just jump through a window. Typically, people who rob fast food joints are stupid enough to attempt that.

First off, if it's in the air as a dispersed mist near the doorframe, there's very little chance that you could stop it getting on some of your skin.

Beside covering your skin. Which really isnt hard.

Second, McDonalds locations are not run by a multimillion dollar corporation. It's franchise-based, though it's likely that most locations in a given area are run by the same franchisee.

Im talking about the company that produces these DNA spraying security systems. Maybe I should have made that more obvious.

Third, again, chances are that if you can think of a solution to the problem, someone involved with one of the two companies also thought of it and determined that it's either not a significant problem as-is or that there is a practical solution. You don't get a pilot project to market by being an idiot.

The article above proves differently. The real idiots, of course, are not the guys selling this stuff, but the ones buying it.

Firstly, eyewitnesses are unreliable and CCTV won't show the guy's face. You can get in the usual suspects and narrow it down to the ones who are about the right height, but after that you'll need something extra, and shining a UV light on someone during the lineup isn't exactly hard.

You know what else isnt hard? Putting on a coat, some gloves, trousers, shoes and a hat.

Secondly, reading the other articles on this, I'm inclined to think they intend to use it as a deterrent - and apparently, there's a evidence to indicate that it works very well in that capacity.

Yeah, I guess all the people who wanted to rob shops but got thrown out onto the street as a baby are fucked, because no one ever taught them how to put on clothes.

Oh yeah, and one more question: lol y u mad tho? My oh my, do you get worked up quickly. I am a lucky man - while my family has a history of heart problems, at least im not as bad off as you. Your blood pressure must rise to critical levels every time you see someone harmlessly poke fun at a news article.

jonnosferatu:

Do you ever stop to think for a minute that perhaps - JUST PERHAPS - the people who came up with this idea know a little more about this than you do, and have legal consultants who also know a little more about this than you do?

This isn't as bad as the WiFi testicles thread, but it's getting there.

Critical, I tell ya!

I'd like to point out that if someone walked into a McDonald's covered in clothes and a mask that it would be suspicious as hell and also if someone jumped out a window they'd likely have cuts on their body as well with a good chance of glass in the wound.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
snip

I'll have you know trolls are not tolerated here. As I said in my last post someone in full clothing is going to cause suspicion

Oh sorry for the double post.

Lizmichi:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
snip

I'll have you know trolls are not tolerated here. As I said in my last post someone in full clothing is going to cause suspicion

Oh sorry for the double post.

No. Fucking. Shit. Are you actually serious? Dont you think standing in front of the cashier with a gun in your hand would raise suspicion? I dont think what you are wearing really matters. The glock you are holding should get everyones attention regardless.

(Oh yeah, and about trolls; I will have you know I have almost 3000 posts, and know about this forum and its trolling rules. I will also have you know accusing someone of trolling is against the rules. I know, its fucking stupid, but I dont make the rules.

Anyhow, im not exactly trolling here. I poked a bit of fun at the news article, and then someone stumbled in and lost his shit randomly. Yeah. LOL EPIC TROLLS I TROLL U XDXDXD.)

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Lizmichi:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
snip

I'll have you know trolls are not tolerated here. As I said in my last post someone in full clothing is going to cause suspicion

Oh sorry for the double post.

No. Fucking. Shit. Are you actually serious? Dont you think standing in front of the cashier with a gun in your hand would raise suspicion? I dont think what you are wearing really matters. The glock you are holding should get everyones attention regardless.

(Oh yeah, and about trolls; I will have you know I have almost 3000 posts, and know about this forum and its trolling rules. I will also have you know accusing someone of trolling is against the rules. I know, its fucking stupid, but I dont make the rules.

Anyhow, im not exactly trolling here. I poked a bit of fun at the news article, and then someone stumbled in and lost his shit randomly. Yeah. LOL EPIC TROLLS I TROLL U XDXDXD.)

Apparently spending five minutes addressing idiotic statements constitutes losing one's shit around here. I'll inject coagulant to simulate the effect next time.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Beside covering your skin. Which really isnt hard.

Covering every inch of it, however, is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK_Cl_54Qh8

jonnosferatu:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Lizmichi:

I'll have you know trolls are not tolerated here. As I said in my last post someone in full clothing is going to cause suspicion

Oh sorry for the double post.

No. Fucking. Shit. Are you actually serious? Dont you think standing in front of the cashier with a gun in your hand would raise suspicion? I dont think what you are wearing really matters. The glock you are holding should get everyones attention regardless.

(Oh yeah, and about trolls; I will have you know I have almost 3000 posts, and know about this forum and its trolling rules. I will also have you know accusing someone of trolling is against the rules. I know, its fucking stupid, but I dont make the rules.

Anyhow, im not exactly trolling here. I poked a bit of fun at the news article, and then someone stumbled in and lost his shit randomly. Yeah. LOL EPIC TROLLS I TROLL U XDXDXD.)

Apparently spending five minutes addressing idiotic statements constitutes losing one's shit around here. I'll inject coagulant to simulate the effect next time.

Jesus Christ, lighten up. I really dont see the big deal here. I poked a bit of fun at the article. WOW. Such a big deal.

jonnosferatu:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Beside covering your skin. Which really isnt hard.

Covering every inch of it, however, is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK_Cl_54Qh8

I really do not see how that video is relevant at all. I can see what you are getting at, but the comparison does not really fit.

Since people are idiots I'll start over:

It's an OLD system, it's been in the UK for at least a year, maybe two. We've had it available for HOME USE since that time, I remember being shown it at a tech conference way back when.

It uses synthesised chromosomes, complicated but not harmful and importantly: unique. There are millions upon millions of combinations, so the one you're being sprayed by is known.

The spray is easy to set up, put it behind all the windows and doors and when you leave for the night the security system activates. Someone busts the door/window without deactivating? Sprayed by the stuff.

Covering every inch of your body is EXTREMELY difficult, water is pervasive, a hole or gap in your protective clothing and this will get through to your skin and make it's mark. In order to be completely covered you'd need heavy duty equipment (not a parker and goggles) and that will be unwieldy, obvious, expensive and so on.

The stain is only visible under UV and doesn't wash out, it's not water soluble and I was told it resists soaps (lipids) too. Basically shy of scrubbing yourself with iron wool it's staying in your skin for a couple of weeks.

Proverbial Jon:
I love the way the majority of comments in this thread pertain to the various ways in which this system can be fooled. Nice one guys.

OT: This is definately a new idea, certainly one I wouldn't have thought up. In fact it's rather creepy if you think about it too hard. I can see zombie apocalypse stories springing out of this one. Oh god... it's not just DNA, it's the T-Virus!

lowkey_jotunn:
Biggest flaw in this plan: Telling potential burglars the plan.

Seriously, they should have shut up until they caught a few burglars. Then again, maybe it's all a clever ruse. There's no DNA sprayer, but as long as the criminals think there is ...

This always happens. Whenever a new technique to catch criminals is invented there is inevitably someone who will shout from the rooftops about how cool and revolutionary it is. Yeah, perhaps it would be more effective if it wasn't common knowledge?

Well, actually making it common knowledge might prove an effective deterrent for the less adept thieves. If you had to choose somewhere to rob, and you know that McDonald's got this complicated DNA thing that you're not really sure how to bypass, then you might choose the less protected grocery store instead.

However, it would not really be effective against members of a serious organized crime syndicate, but I don't really think they'd care much about robbing a McDonalds.

Jesus Christ, lighten up. I really dont see the big deal here. I poked a bit of fun at the article. WOW. Such a big deal.

Food for thought:
You weren't required to respond to my initial post
You weren't required to respond to my other two posts
You are the one getting worked up about this

I really do not see how that video is relevant at all. I can see what you are getting at, but the comparison does not really fit.

An expert in the irukandji jellyfish, knowing the risks associated with going into their waters, took every precaution to cover as much of his skin as possible to prevent exposure. He was exposed by freak chance.

In the case of someone walking through a door spraying a mist of DNA and UV-reactive adhesive, it ceases to become freak chance.

On a related note:

The article above proves differently. The real idiots, of course, are not the guys selling this stuff, but the ones buying it.

You still haven't adequately defended this statement.

Hugga_Bear:
Since people are idiots I'll start over:

It's an OLD system, it's been in the UK for at least a year, maybe two. We've had it available for HOME USE since that time, I remember being shown it at a tech conference way back when.

It uses synthesised chromosomes, complicated but not harmful and importantly: unique. There are millions upon millions of combinations, so the one you're being sprayed by is known.

The spray is easy to set up, put it behind all the windows and doors and when you leave for the night the security system activates. Someone busts the door/window without deactivating? Sprayed by the stuff.

Covering every inch of your body is EXTREMELY difficult, water is pervasive, a hole or gap in your protective clothing and this will get through to your skin and make it's mark. In order to be completely covered you'd need heavy duty equipment (not a parker and goggles) and that will be unwieldy, obvious, expensive and so on.

The stain is only visible under UV and doesn't wash out, it's not water soluble and I was told it resists soaps (lipids) too. Basically shy of scrubbing yourself with iron wool it's staying in your skin for a couple of weeks.

Not sure if the iron wool would do it, actually - you'd have to strip off virtually all of the skin in the affected areas. The only solution I can think of would be covering those areas with a strong DNA endo- (or, less-usefully, exo-) nuclease.

Maybe I should patent an endonuclease spray and start selling it as a counter...<.<

sounds good to me.
as long as it really is accepted by the courts.

galdon2004:
but.. what happens if there is a glitch of some sort and it sprayed a customer?

Or.. what if some clerk who had a really bad day decided to spray a rude customer?

and now if a police officer sees the innocent person with a glow they are automatically guilty of robbery?

One thing is its matches a specific McD's and so they go back check the cctv and see no robbery you don't get prosecuted and they've found you a nice solid piece of evidence for your lawsuit for defamation of character, assault and whatever other charges you can think of to get millions of dollars and that employee's head on a tray with fries.

Cain_Zeros:

minuialear:

Penguin_Factory:

Spot the science goof and win a prize (no actual prizes will be given).

Yeah, DNA strands aren't made of chromosomes...it's the other way around.

Also, why do they need 60 chromosomes in the first place?

Because apparently "glow under a UV light in some way that can be used to identify the branch" is fairly complicated. Even though I'm pretty sure DNA in general glows under a UV light.

They're probably (I'm assuming) using fluorescent tags, which wouldn't be attached to normal DNA. But why would one need to make a DNA mixture of 60 chromosomes for this kind of thing? It's not like if you took cell samples from a glowing robber and stared at the DNA, it would be hard to separate the glowing chromosomes from the normal ones (or, at least, it's not like having sixty kinds of glowing chromosomes is going to make the job a lot easier than having, say, ten glowing chromosomes). So why not just shoot a concentrated amount of 1-10 chromosomes?

Admittedly I've been out of genetics for awhile, so I could be forgetting something that would explain the reason. But so far it seems unnecessary.

This will still either deter crime or help catch the perpetrators. You can argue that there are ways of avoiding the DNA spray, and that's true - buy disposable clothes, gloves, ski-mask, goggles, and then throw/burn all your clothes when you're done. BUT - that requires planning. Most criminals are stupid/lazy/ignorant people who commit crimes either on the spur-of-the-moment or with minimal thought. Why do so many criminals forget to wear even a simple mask during robberies? It's because they often put one or two hour's "preparation" into robbing a place, or none at all. Criminals are for the most part, idiots. Remember that guy who robbed a store, but not before filling out a in-store job application form listing his real name and address? Or those two idiots who thought that scribbling each other's faces with black marker pen would be an effective "disguise" and tried to rob a bank?

The vast majority of criminals are morons who will be caught by this technology if they run into it.

minuialear:

Cain_Zeros:

minuialear:

Yeah, DNA strands aren't made of chromosomes...it's the other way around.

Also, why do they need 60 chromosomes in the first place?

Because apparently "glow under a UV light in some way that can be used to identify the branch" is fairly complicated. Even though I'm pretty sure DNA in general glows under a UV light.

They're probably (I'm assuming) using fluorescent tags, which wouldn't be attached to normal DNA. But why would one need to make a DNA mixture of 60 chromosomes for this kind of thing? It's not like if you took cell samples from a glowing robber and stared at the DNA, it would be hard to separate the glowing chromosomes from the normal ones (or, at least, it's not like having sixty kinds of glowing chromosomes is going to make the job a lot easier than having, say, ten glowing chromosomes). So why not just shoot a concentrated amount of 1-10 chromosomes?

Admittedly I've been out of genetics for awhile, so I could be forgetting something that would explain the reason. But so far it seems unnecessary.

From what I can tell:
UV-Fluorescent Adhesive: Used to identify that the person may have been involved in the robbery
DNA Tag: Used to figure out who they robbed

I'm guessing there's either something very easy involved in producing entire chromosomes, or that they're saying "chromosome" because very few people know what "plasmid" means.

minuialear:

Penguin_Factory:

Now, if someone shows up who wants a handful of cash instead of a handful of french fries, a small device above the exit will activate during his or her getaway, covering the bandit's skin and clothing with a synthetic DNA strand made up of sixty separate chromosomes

Spot the science goof and win a prize (no actual prizes will be given).

Yeah, DNA strands aren't made of chromosomes...it's the other way around.

Also, why do they need 60 chromosomes in the first place?

I assume, because it wouldn't glow under UV light otherwise, also it would make comparative analysis that much more accurate, one chromosome might not be very good evidence, but 60 might be.

Lots of people are suggesting that buglers exit through a window. Assuming that the windows aren't safety glass and the thieves don't take there sweet time to avoid nicking themselves, allowing the police to get there, then that method might wind up having the thief leave behind DNA instead of picking it up, which doesn't really help him avoid being arrested. The biggest problem would be that thieves generally wear mask anyways so if they ditch their cloths then there won't be anything to track them by, but by the same logic, it'd be hard to track them if they ditch there cloths anyways. At least now if they arrest the guy in short order or he doesn't ditch all his cloths then they can catch him red handed.

Okay, plan:

Rob McDonalds in regular gear
Run a few blocks into the bushes (Yes I do live in Australia)
Get Changed

How do police get me within 2 weeks with no discernible evidence if they didn't catch me in the chase?

Then again, you see so many criminals go in without masks and all the police have is a blurry picture of said suspect, but then how exactly do they find said person without DNA tests? Usually it'd be a crimestoppers line (I'd be useless for this, you'd have to actually check crimestoppers, see the person, then give them a time and location of him).

Catching criminals is hard enough as it is if they're not caught in the first 48 hours.

Kargathia:
The fashionable robber always brings an umbrella anyway.

Alternatively: Brick, meet window. Window, meet brick.

Poor window never quite recovered from the shock.

Downside for that is that the alarms will be triggered early and alot of proper stores have armored glass. And it'll be easy to see it from a distance from either civvies or security personnel.

Kevlar Eater:
Counter: Wear a raincoat and something to protect the eyes, face and hands.

Thieves that rob places like McDonalds... Aren't that smart, they a lot of the time won't even wear masks, they're just common idiots.

OT: Good Idea, but that's half the job, the people also need to be found, I guess it is just a good make for backup evidence?

The Plunk:

People in this thread seem to be vastly overestimating the intelligence of criminals who rob McDonald's.

I dont think that guy understand how portals work if he's trying to get IN the building.

but I agree with you, I think people are overestimating the intelligence of criminals who rob mcdonalds.

OT: not going to lie, I came into this expecting something worse, but its a novel idea I suppose.

Ok not to sound all conspiracy theory crazy or anything, but does anyone think that this DNA spray could be programmed with any string of "commands" that could have a negative (or, I guess, positive) effect on ANYONE - criminal or not? It has the ability to soak into a person and could access/change anything in the body. I mean if it's odorless, colorless, tasteless then no one would know if they are being sprayed.

Just a thought.

ExclusiveBig LC:
Ok not to sound all conspiracy theory crazy or anything, but does anyone think that this DNA spray could be programmed with any string of "commands" that could have a negative (or, I guess, positive) effect on ANYONE - criminal or not? It has the ability to soak into a person and could access/change anything in the body. I mean if it's odorless, colorless, tasteless then no one would know if they are being sprayed.

Just a thought.

Doesn't work like that.

Baresark:
Now everyone knows about it. I would like to point out the difference between an idiot and a reasonably intelligent criminal. Idiots run in, demand money and run away, often times not even wearing a mask or anything to cover their face. A seasoned criminal will wear something to obscure his face. A dumbass robs McDonalds, walks two blocks and grabs a beer. An intelligent person robs McDonalds in throw away clothes, leaves to secluded area, throws clothes away and puts on a pair he/she had stored in the area secretly. An idiot doesn't bother covering his hands or any parts of the body that could possibly identify them (tattoos, scars, etc.). Someone with 2+ brain cells to rub together wears gloves and covers their whole body in an obscuring layer of clothes. So, if someone had 2 minutes to plan this, this system would be as useless as the police as the already useless camera system I'm sure they have in place. You know, the one that can't even catch the guys who don't even bother wearing masks.

Intelligent people don't rob McDonalds.

Well this sounds... strange. But possibly effective. Just have to hope the machine doesn't misfire or people who rob McDonalds have a sudden raincoat fetish...

DVS BSTrD:
Article is definitely NOT what the title led me to expect. Talk about using protection!

Qitz:
So you rob the store and get DNA shot all over ya? I thought porn stars had it bad Ba-Zing!

"Did you just rob a McDonald's?"

Remember: Practice safe stealing.

Mylinkay Asdara:
So... we can ID tag thieves with created DNA... but we still haven't cured Cancer or even found out why people get things like MS?

Why?

Err... Because those are harder? Presumably? Do it yourself or don't complain about what people who aren't you manage to accomplish.

Jadak:

Mylinkay Asdara:
So... we can ID tag thieves with created DNA... but we still haven't cured Cancer or even found out why people get things like MS?

Why?

Err... Because those are harder? Presumably? Do it yourself or don't complain about what people who aren't you manage to accomplish.

Related:
http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=2438

octafish:

Baresark:
Now everyone knows about it. I would like to point out the difference between an idiot and a reasonably intelligent criminal. Idiots run in, demand money and run away, often times not even wearing a mask or anything to cover their face. A seasoned criminal will wear something to obscure his face. A dumbass robs McDonalds, walks two blocks and grabs a beer. An intelligent person robs McDonalds in throw away clothes, leaves to secluded area, throws clothes away and puts on a pair he/she had stored in the area secretly. An idiot doesn't bother covering his hands or any parts of the body that could possibly identify them (tattoos, scars, etc.). Someone with 2+ brain cells to rub together wears gloves and covers their whole body in an obscuring layer of clothes. So, if someone had 2 minutes to plan this, this system would be as useless as the police as the already useless camera system I'm sure they have in place. You know, the one that can't even catch the guys who don't even bother wearing masks.

Intelligent people don't rob McDonalds.

Read on before making comments. I made that exact same point myself later on. :)

Also, it's at this point I would like to make another point. They would need to have a suspect for this to be effective at all. If someone runs in, no one and the cameras do not get a good look at the guy, the police will have no idea who to check for this DNA. So, in a lot of ways it's just as limited as anything else since the police aren't going to wait at intersections and scan people.

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