Is Steve Jobs the 2nd Greatest Innovator of All Time?

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brainslurper:

Nami nom noms:
hahahaha! Mark Zuckerberg! oh deary me.

I needed a good laugh. Now, where's the real list?

Swap out zuckerberg for ford, and the pilot for tesla, and it's not THAT bad of a list...

it would be better, but where are the real innovators? Darwin, Brunel?

TheSYLOH:

Flac00:

Tanis:
Steve Jobs was about as 'innovate' as Zynga.

Really? Whens the last time you bought a CD? The last time you saw a phone without a touch screen. The last time you opened an application on your computer using text based input? This guy changed everything A LOT, you can't suddenly discredit him just because you don't like Apple products.

MP3 Player in it's current form - Creative Labs (Not Steve Jobs)
Touch Based Phone Interface - Palm Inc (Not Steve Jobs)
Graphical User Interface - Xerox Labs (Not Steve Jobs)

We can discredit him, because we know where all his so called "innovations" came from.
Heck alot of people actually owned them before Jobs encased them in white plastic and marked up the price.

There you are wrong, these are inventions, not innovations. Jobs innovated by taking something that was inefficient, unpopular, and probably was going to fail and made it good. The MP3 player by creative labs was pretty bad and not popular for a reason. The touch interface that palm did really never gained acceptance for very long (especially since you could only use a stylus). And the GUI by Xerox, seriously? They may have made it, but at best it was pretty bad. All of these things were not invented by steve jobs and instead made into a form that is actually useable. Most INNOVATORS don't fully invent, otherwise they would be INVENTORS. Again, just because you like Steve Jobs doesn't mean you can say he did not innovate, thats like saying that Edison did not innovate, or Marconi did not innovate.

Bevin Warren:
Zynga didn't make the graphical interface popular.
- neither did apple - their is a reason Microsost had a 90% market share.

Microsoft may have won out in the end, but their operating system was extremely similar in design and function as the mac os. In fact, you could say they *gasp* stole it. In the end, had the iMac not been created, GUI would never have gained any popularity as the iMac sold pretty well despite its new design.

Bevin Warren:

Zynga didn't make digital distribution popular.
-neither did apple -you can probably thank the guys behind Steam for that

uh, iTunes? That was digital distribution of music on a large scale level. No one had ever sold anything online (well, digital stuff anyways) and have it be so successful. Thanks to iTunes, people began to accept that online sales were in fact a possible and lucrative business model.

Bevin Warren:

Zynga didn't make digital music players popular.
- neither did Apple - heck they still don't have a major share of the market...

Really? Are you sure you aren't remaining history there? To show that you are, take these statistics:
"Since October 2004, the iPod line has dominated digital music player sales in the United States, with over 90% of the market for hard drive-based players and over 70% of the market for all types of players" -Wikipedia (not completely reliable, but the source it sites is)
So, i guess we need 100% to have a major share.

Bevin Warren:

Zynga didn't make all-touch phones popular.
- neither did apple

so what smart phones sold extremely well over the period of time before that sold over 10 million (ps, the iphone has sold 73 million to date, not that popular though)

Bevin Warren:

Zynga didn't make tablets popular.
- and Apples first tablets were totally ridiculed and only became popular with a small market share - laptops still sell more then IPads... even Apple recognise this

First of all, the ipad came out with some pretty good reviews, (example: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/01/technology/personaltech/01pogue.html?pagewanted=all)
Yes, it doesn't sell as well as laptops, thats what happens when you release a product into a new industry. The iPad is far from a failure and still is making Apple good money.

Bevin Warren:

Zynga made Facebook games popular. And that is all.
and Apple has never sucessfully made a computer game...

Obviously, they are not a game developer. They simply released a product that was not fully intended to be a gaming system that has now completely re-innovated the whole mobile industry. Know why the 3DS and Vita are not reaching the insane sales of the DS? Because people are using their iPhones and smart-phones in general to play mobile games. This is like accusing Apple of never making an album or writing a book, they provide the space, people fill it.

Try again

BlackStar42:

Flac00:

Tanis:
Steve Jobs was about as 'innovate' as Zynga.

Really? Whens the last time you bought a CD? The last time you saw a phone without a touch screen. The last time you opened an application on your computer using text based input? This guy changed everything A LOT, you can't suddenly discredit him just because you don't like Apple products.

Lets see... a month ago, 5 minutes ago, yesterday, respectively. He was a great salesman, I'll give him that, and he knew how to get people to get shit done, but the man never personally invented anything.

He doesn't need to invent anything. Innovation isn't invention. We don't renown the guy who created wireless, we renown Marconi, who perfect wireless. Being an INNOVATOR means you INNOVATE, being and INVENTOR means you INVENT. I will admit that Steve Jobs was no genius inventor, but he sure innovated the shit out of EVERYTHING.

Plus, my point about the CDs is that their sales are dropping rapidly. iTunes has initiated a humongous upset of moving music from physical to digital.

Tanis:

Flac00:

Tanis:
Steve Jobs was about as 'innovate' as Zynga.

Really? Whens the last time you bought a CD? The last time you saw a phone without a touch screen. The last time you opened an application on your computer using text based input? This guy changed everything A LOT, you can't suddenly discredit him just because you don't like Apple products.

I have NOTHING against Apple, even if they are overpriced (like Alienware), but I DO have an issue with 'Bill Mayes' types that don't MAKE anything but are claimed to have done so.

Steve Jobs was a great SALESMEN, but he didn't make a damn thing and crushed anyone who called him out for it...
He was a jerk who gained 'sainthood' in much the same way that insane jerk 'mother Teresa' did - a fantastic PR department.

A lot of people would disagree with you greatly that he was "jerk". That really doesn't matter in that annuls of time anyway. Jobs made a lot, he created...well you know them all. All of those products completely changed and improved their industry. Without his computers and other devises, we would not have much of the stuff we take for granted today (the mouse, online music distribution, laptops and their touch based controls ect.)

Warachia:

Flac00:

Really? Whens the last time you bought a CD? The last time you saw a phone without a touch screen. The last time you opened an application on your computer using text based input? This guy changed everything A LOT, you can't suddenly discredit him just because you don't like Apple products.

the last time I bought a CD? I don't know, but I don't have to thank steve jobs for that since he had nothing to do with it. The last time I saw a phone without a touch screen? I don't have any that have touch screens, and steve didn't make those either. The last time I opened an application using a text based input? Probably in the 1990's, and if you want to thank the operating systems you have now, thank xerox for inventing the operating system that steve bought and took all the credit for. I don't even know why you picked those examples.

Because they exist today in popular culture because of Steve Jobs. He may not have invented them, but he made them possible. Xerox was never going to continue their Alto or Star lines, not to mention because they were not very well made. Had it not been for the iMac and Lisa, the whole style of GUI would have either not existed or taken a very long time to fully develop.
Second, of coarse Steve Jobs had EVERYTHING to do with the new wave of digital distribution for music. Nothing on the scale or the effectiveness of iTunes had ever existed before. What came after based its designs off of iTunes and its distribution method. He created iTunes, he created the music distribution methods we see today.
Third: no, he didn't create touch screens. But no POPULAR smart-phone before the iphone had one. They all had button based designs and touch screens seemed slow, inaccurate, and inconvenient. The Palm Pilot had it, but most everything else was button based. With the release of the iPhone and now iPad, the industry is dominated by smart-phones that have touch based interfaces. Thank the iPhone, and specifically Steve Jobs, for that.

bill gates should be ahead of apple and even bill gates shouldnt be on this list

Flac00:

BlackStar42:

Flac00:

Really? Whens the last time you bought a CD? The last time you saw a phone without a touch screen. The last time you opened an application on your computer using text based input? This guy changed everything A LOT, you can't suddenly discredit him just because you don't like Apple products.

Lets see... a month ago, 5 minutes ago, yesterday, respectively. He was a great salesman, I'll give him that, and he knew how to get people to get shit done, but the man never personally invented anything.

He doesn't need to invent anything. Innovation isn't invention. We don't renown the guy who created wireless, we renown Marconi, who perfect wireless. Being an INNOVATOR means you INNOVATE, being and INVENTOR means you INVENT. I will admit that Steve Jobs was no genius inventor, but he sure innovated the shit out of EVERYTHING.

Plus, my point about the CDs is that their sales are dropping rapidly. iTunes has initiated a humongous upset of moving music from physical to digital.

That's the rub, though. He never did anything personally, he got others to do it and took the credit.

Yeah, that list is bullshit. Jobs as an innovative entrepreneur I would understand. As an inventor? Absolutely not. There are far more influential inventors that should be put on that list such as Nikola Tesla, Leonardo DaVinci, Gutenberg, the Wright Brothers, Ben Franklin, etc.

BUUUT..... When I think about it, a lot of the recent innovations in software and hardware wouldn't have been possible without Apple, and Steve's personality was what made Apple shine all the brighter.

Flac00:

Bevin Warren:

Zynga didn't make digital distribution popular.
-neither did apple -you can probably thank the guys behind Steam for that

uh, iTunes? That was digital distribution of music on a large scale level. No one had ever sold anything online (well, digital stuff anyways) and have it be so successful. Thanks to iTunes, people began to accept that online sales were in fact a possible and lucrative business model.

Try again

Napster ring a bell? (1999)

And of course FTP has been around since ARPANET.

I will admit that Apple was one of the first to succesfully commercialise a digital distribution method, but even RealNetworks was selling digital downloads before them.

EDIT spellig!

EDIT2: And Amazon were the guys who convinced us we could pay for stuff using the Internet.

BlackStar42:

Flac00:

BlackStar42:

Lets see... a month ago, 5 minutes ago, yesterday, respectively. He was a great salesman, I'll give him that, and he knew how to get people to get shit done, but the man never personally invented anything.

He doesn't need to invent anything. Innovation isn't invention. We don't renown the guy who created wireless, we renown Marconi, who perfect wireless. Being an INNOVATOR means you INNOVATE, being and INVENTOR means you INVENT. I will admit that Steve Jobs was no genius inventor, but he sure innovated the shit out of EVERYTHING.

Plus, my point about the CDs is that their sales are dropping rapidly. iTunes has initiated a humongous upset of moving music from physical to digital.

That's the rub, though. He never did anything personally, he got others to do it and took the credit.

He didn't have people do anything for him. Inventing is not always the important part. Making those things that he did took skill, prowess, and fortitude. Its not like he just stole xerox's operating system and slapped "apple" on it. He took an unworkable idea with potential and created a revolution with it. Other people may have had the first thought, but he was the one to take that thought and put it far beyond what anyone could even conceive.
Not to mention, Steve Jobs never took credit for what he did not do. He never said he created the GUI or that he created all of the things he innovated, but he is still credited with making them what they are today.

Andrew_C:

Flac00:

Bevin Warren:

Zynga didn't make digital distribution popular.
-neither did apple -you can probably thank the guys behind Steam for that

uh, iTunes? That was digital distribution of music on a large scale level. No one had ever sold anything online (well, digital stuff anyways) and have it be so successful. Thanks to iTunes, people began to accept that online sales were in fact a possible and lucrative business model.

Try again

Napster ring a bell? (1999)

And of course FTP has been around since ARPANET.

I will admit that Apple was one of the first to succesfully commercialise a digital distribution method, but even RealNetworks was selling digital downloads before them.

EDIT spellig!

EDIT2: And Amazon were the guys who convinced us we could pay for stuff using the Internet.

And everybody still buys music from Napster. Being the first successfully commercialized is what matters here. Buying digital music online was never accepted as a real alternative until iTunes.
Also, there is a reason I said DIGITAL distribution on a large scale. Amazon is the equivalent of a catalogue online, very different experience and idea. You could not download your couch onto your computer.

Tanis:
Steve Jobs was about as 'innovate' as Zynga.

Innovate isn't an adjective.

Steve jobs?

He put a touch screen and swirly thing on a music player :/.... then made a slightly bigger music player

Wow. Steve and Edison on the top. Really?
I dare say, that voicing the reasons for why i resent this list thoroughly is rendered useless, looking at all these other replies.
Yet I must still make the claim that Edison being on that list makes it ignorant, and completely idiotic. Go Tesla!
And to balance up the Tesla>Edison here, I do believe I have to make a Richie>Jobs, as C most certainly is a quite significant and impressive creation indeed.
Also, I find it quite surprising that they did not include a certain 'Da Vinci' there.
Yadda yadda.

Dexter111:
image

This is literally the first and only thing that went through my head when I saw the article title...

This is the second:

image

Exactly the same thing here. I re-read because I was sure that people couldn't be this stupid...

someonehairy-ish:

Tanis:
Steve Jobs was about as 'innovate' as Zynga.

Innovate isn't an adjective.

My bad, Grammar Not-Zii, 'innovative'...you happy now?

Holy fanboy alert in the thread.

Let's look at this seriously guys. Consider all of the supposed innovations Apple have done over the years, consider their products.

Best example, the Tablet.

First released in 2000, nobody wanted it. Then all of a sudden nearly a decade later, Apple comes out with the same idea, inferior hardware specifications and sells an ungodly amount. What changed? Likely answer is, the Apple fanboys changed it. Does anyone remember being bombarded with advertisements for the early pre Apple tabs? I don't. How often can you go without seeing an annoying Apple ad for a piece of their over priced crap? I can't even go to school without seeing one. Suffice to say that the main reason for the success of Apple products isn't Job's brilliance, but his marketing department.

Sony was actually the first company to created an online music store, not Apple. In the usual Sony fashion, they fucked it up by charging too much and exposing it too little to the public, because I had never heard of it. Then Apple does the same thing and advertises it till it's blue in the face.

If you want to call Jobs an innovative genius for making things mainstream, fine. If anything he was good at selling things, while others weren't. Now is that due to incompetence, or genuine disinterest of the product in general? It's quite possible that all these things that Apple sells so well, is actually crap, we're all mesmerized into believing that it's remarkable through clever ads. Congrats people, you are sheep, numbers, easily influenced mind slaves.

Seriously think about it, how often do you see an ad for an Apple product. Now how often do you see an ad for Asus Transformer Prime? I work in electronics retail, and you will not believe how often I get a customer who has no idea that similar products from other manufacturers exist.

Nothing you've heard before now; nine pages of the same reaction. I wonder if the definition of "innovation" changed in the past decade...

I mean, seriously?
Edison?
Zuckerburg?
Earhart? Might as well chalk up Christopher Columbus, because obviously the focus somehow translated from "people who came up with actual creative ideas" to "famous people who had good publicity."

Leonardo Da Vinci.
Tesla.
Whoever invented scissors. That's what the list should look like. Because let's face it:

C F:
Whoever invented scissors.

I believe that was John Scissors Cuttington the third.

Arizona Kyle:

Bevin Warren:
Zynga didn't make the graphical interface popular.
- neither did apple - their is a reason Microsost had a 90% market share
Zynga didn't make digital distribution popular.
-neither did apple -you can probably thank the guys behind Steam for that
Zynga didn't make digital music players popular.
- neither did Apple - heck they still don't have a major share of the market...
Zynga didn't make all-touch phones popular.
- neither did apple
Zynga didn't make tablets popular.
- and Apples first tablets were totally ridiculed and only became popular with a small market share - laptops still sell more then IPads... even Apple recognise this
Zynga made Facebook games popular. And that is all.
and Apple has never sucessfully made a computer game...

if you want innovation in computing look at IBM, Intel, AMD, Nvidia

Zynga didn't make all-touch phones popular.
- neither did apple
--- Well they might of made them popular but Android has vastly increased the popularity of smartphones more than apple

Griffolion:

doggie015:

I beg to differ. Who took the hard-drive-based music player from fad to fab in 2001?

Who first fit a full desktop-style web browser into a commercially available mobile device?

Who adapted existing capacitive touch-screen technology into the touch-screens we use on EVERY multi-touch capable device today?

Who basically CREATED the modern day cheap app-based games market?

Who is responsible for bringing apple back from the brink of bankruptcy after they rather stupidly tossed him out?

Who consistently sold out keynote speeches?

Apple with Steve Jobs taking credit.
Apple with Steve Jobs taking credit.
Apple with Steve Jobs taking credit.
Apple with Steve Jobs taking credit.
Microsoft for demanding Jobs came back after they bailed them out.
Steve Job's marketing team.

Say what you want, but the one thing you shouldn't really say is the lack of validity of your opposition's arguments. All it serves to do is highlight the unconfidence you have in your own arguments.

- Not sent from my iPad.

Who still doesn't have flash on their phones
Who comes out with the same phone every year
Who only got fame because they were the first smartphone and only was called the "best" because people tried to play catch up to fast
Who gets ripped to shreds when they try to say that apple is better

Apple
Apple
Apple
Apple-tards

So now that he is gone you think they will get flash in the phone..... 10 years after everyone else

-sent from my HTC EVO 3D

Who falls for gimmicks such as a no-glasses-3D smartphone? Mindless apple bashers

Who never stops to think about how things actually work and who actually drives change? Mindless apple bashers

What is the entire tablet industry currently trying to catch up to? The iPad 2

Who made the iPad 2? Apple

Who created the cheap app-based games market of today? (Please actually NAME who ACTUALLY did it instead of who supposedly took credit and just spouting bullshit!)

Who is a major supporter of HTML5? Apple

Why do iDevices not have flash? Because it is an outdated technology that uses way too much power and processing time compared to HTML5 which can do the exact same thing and more!

Why do other mobile phones have flash support? The same reason a 3D smartphone was released: People are trying to pack gimmicky features into their phones so that they stand a chance against apple's genuinely innovative products.

What is the currently most popular mobile gaming device line: The iDevice lineup

Who used to be the king of the mobile gaming market? Nintendo

Where do we constantly see a wide variety of innovative games in the top 10 lists? The Apple app store (Angry birds, Fruit Ninja, Jetpack Joyride, Tiny wings and so on...)

doggie015:

Who falls for gimmicks such as a no-glasses-3D smartphone? Mindless apple bashers

And *only them*, right?
RIGHT?
Because buying Apple automatically provides you with a superior preference and immunity to "gimmicks"...

That is such pretentious nonsense.
Gag me.

doggie015:
Who never stops to think about how things actually work and who actually drives change? Mindless apple bashers

Because understanding how things work is totally irrelevant? One thing I've noticed with people, not just Apple people, is that they have no idea how things work and I swear some of them think it's magic. Is it such a bad thing to understand how something works to avoid being dooped into believing something else? It's the same reason why people think Apple computers is bullshit, some of their computers cost a small fortune for old mid ranged hardware. Then what are you paying for? The name?

What is the entire tablet industry currently trying to catch up to? The iPad 2

Catching up? A tablet from 2003 is still technically better than an Ipad 2. Asus has also surpassed the ipad 2 with the Transformer Prime. http://www.pcworld.com/article/243463/spec_showdown_transformer_prime_vs_ipad_2_vs_kindle_fire_vs_nook_tablet.html
Granted they iPad3 has yet to come out, but knowing usual Apple fashion, it wont be significantly better than the last model.

It's also worth noting that the iPad 2 16gb is 500 dollars vs the Asus Transformer Prime 32gb for 500.

Who is a major supporter of HTML5? Apple

Why do iDevices not have flash? Because it is an outdated technology that uses way too much power and processing time compared to HTML5 which can do the exact same thing and more!

And other devices support both, rather than omitting one.

Why do other mobile phones have flash support? The same reason a 3D smartphone was released: People are trying to pack gimmicky features into their phones so that they stand a chance against apple's genuinely innovative products.

Doesn't flash have over 90% market share? Pretty popular gimmick.

What is the currently most popular mobile gaming device line: The iDevice lineup

Popular, yes. Good, matter of opinion. If I'm going to spend 500 dollars on a device to play games on, namely the iPad, I'd rather buy a DS. My 3DS is an MP3 player, video cam, digital cam and mobile gaming device with games I would prefer play. It also can be used to surf the web, watch Netflix and other functions as well. Granted the cams aren't all that good, but neither is an iPad or iPods cam with their less than 1 megapixel.

Who used to be the king of the mobile gaming market? Nintendo

Arguably they still are. What I've noticed from owning a smart phone after all these years is that mobile games are just damn convenient. I myself have purchased several mobile games out of sheer convenience. Given the number of iDevices out there, it's no wonder a lot of mobile games are being sold.

Where do we constantly see a wide variety of innovative games in the top 10 lists? The Apple app store (Angry birds, Fruit Ninja, Jetpack Joyride, Tiny wings and so on...)

Again, matter of opinion. I for one have never had the attention span to continue playing any mobile game. Some could argue that the app games themselves are gimmicks.

Greatest inventor of all time,
Caveman Ugg who invented Fire
Caveman Thugg who invented leverage
Caveman Mogg Who invented the social environment.

Flac00:

Warachia:

Flac00:

Really? Whens the last time you bought a CD? The last time you saw a phone without a touch screen. The last time you opened an application on your computer using text based input? This guy changed everything A LOT, you can't suddenly discredit him just because you don't like Apple products.

the last time I bought a CD? I don't know, but I don't have to thank steve jobs for that since he had nothing to do with it. The last time I saw a phone without a touch screen? I don't have any that have touch screens, and steve didn't make those either. The last time I opened an application using a text based input? Probably in the 1990's, and if you want to thank the operating systems you have now, thank xerox for inventing the operating system that steve bought and took all the credit for. I don't even know why you picked those examples.

Because they exist today in popular culture because of Steve Jobs. He may not have invented them, but he made them possible. Xerox was never going to continue their Alto or Star lines, not to mention because they were not very well made. Had it not been for the iMac and Lisa, the whole style of GUI would have either not existed or taken a very long time to fully develop.
Second, of coarse Steve Jobs had EVERYTHING to do with the new wave of digital distribution for music. Nothing on the scale or the effectiveness of iTunes had ever existed before. What came after based its designs off of iTunes and its distribution method. He created iTunes, he created the music distribution methods we see today.
Third: no, he didn't create touch screens. But no POPULAR smart-phone before the iphone had one. They all had button based designs and touch screens seemed slow, inaccurate, and inconvenient. The Palm Pilot had it, but most everything else was button based. With the release of the iPhone and now iPad, the industry is dominated by smart-phones that have touch based interfaces. Thank the iPhone, and specifically Steve Jobs, for that.

Listen to yourself, he didn't invent CD's but he made them possible. WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? If he didn't help create them he gets no points for them.

Ok, I'll concede that Apple modified the GUI to something that was much better and that is genuine innovation, still not nearly enough to get him on this list, as the people who made it originally should be higher.

If you were to argue for digital distribution (which isn't your original argument), you'd still fail, digital distribution for music existed before iTunes, all they did was make it bigger and more popular, which isn't innovation.

Finally, like I said before, popularizing something like touch screens isn't innovation.

Guys, I've just got news! Andrew Carnegie--early 20th century industrialist, fat cat, big wig, monopolist, and tycoon--invented Steel! Well done him!

Jobs ran the company. Whoop-di-do for him. "Greatest innovator of all time"? PAH! No Al-Jazari? No Buonorotti or Leonardo? Descartes? Bacon? Akbar the Great? Pascal? Galileo? Newton? Lavousier? Bonaparte? Euclid? Cave Johnson?

Instead, we see names like Amelia Earhart, Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, and...Temple Grandin? Wishing no offense to the man, his discoveries are valid, but hardly "greatest of all time" competition. This is nonsense, pure and simple.

STEVE JOBS IS GOD...MUST BUY ALL APPLE PRODUCTS...MUST BY 6 IPHONES BECAUSE APPLE TELL ME TOO...MUST GIVE THEM ALL MY MONEY

BehattedWanderer:

Instead, we see names like Amelia Earhart, Mark Zuckerberg, Steve Jobs, and...Temple Grandin? Wishing no offense to the man, his discoveries are valid, but hardly "greatest of all time" competition. This is nonsense, pure and simple.

I was wondering if this was an open-response or if it was a list.
But seeing how Amelia Earhart (who was a famous pilot, and not really an "innovator" or inventor) made the list...I don't get it.

no Amelia Earhart does deserve to be described as an innovator becauseof the work she did in air navigation and hence the ability to travel longer distances... But then again I wish people would understand the difference between innovation and logical extension/evolution... if its the later it shpouldn't count as innovation.

Waaghpowa:
Holy fanboy alert in the thread.

Let's look at this seriously guys. Consider all of the supposed innovations Apple have done over the years, consider their products.

Best example, the Tablet.

First released in 2000, nobody wanted it. Then all of a sudden nearly a decade later, Apple comes out with the same idea, inferior hardware specifications and sells an ungodly amount. What changed? Likely answer is, the Apple fanboys changed it. Does anyone remember being bombarded with advertisements for the early pre Apple tabs? I don't. How often can you go without seeing an annoying Apple ad for a piece of their over priced crap? I can't even go to school without seeing one. Suffice to say that the main reason for the success of Apple products isn't Job's brilliance, but his marketing department.

Sony was actually the first company to created an online music store, not Apple. In the usual Sony fashion, they fucked it up by charging too much and exposing it too little to the public, because I had never heard of it. Then Apple does the same thing and advertises it till it's blue in the face.

If you want to call Jobs an innovative genius for making things mainstream, fine. If anything he was good at selling things, while others weren't. Now is that due to incompetence, or genuine disinterest of the product in general? It's quite possible that all these things that Apple sells so well, is actually crap, we're all mesmerized into believing that it's remarkable through clever ads. Congrats people, you are sheep, numbers, easily influenced mind slaves.

Seriously think about it, how often do you see an ad for an Apple product. Now how often do you see an ad for Asus Transformer Prime? I work in electronics retail, and you will not believe how often I get a customer who has no idea that similar products from other manufacturers exist.

Xerox can make a graphical interface, but unless it sells, then they have no reason to continue investment in that market. Apple showed people that graphical interfaces could work on a consumer level.
Same with digital distribution, same with touch phones, same with tablets, same with internet based TV boxes. Apple didn't do this through brute force advertising.

Didn't invent anything? Whaaaaat? : o But I read in post-mortem news articles he invented computers, the internet, mp3s, music, and video games!

Podunk:
Didn't invent anything? Whaaaaat? : o But I read in post-mortem news articles he invented computers, the internet, mp3s, music, and video games!

I know! Stupid ignorant people, just jealous of Jobs for having such a brilliant mind.

joe-h2o:

classic naysayer behaviour, very quick to bash and crow, but they're very unsporting losers when proved wrong.

I have a rule about spending time retaliating to retardation on the internet so I'll be brief. I know the "No Flash" only applies to mobile devices. Doesn't excuse them from not having it. Jobs was a clever man, he brought together real innovators and had the charisma to lead.
If you want a real innovator, look up Jobs' countersteve The Wizard of Woz.

A Free Man:

BlackStar42:
OK, that's just depressing. The winner is a thief who stole everything from Tesla and invented the goddamned electric chair as a marketing device. If this is for the greatest innovator of all time, why not Alan Turing or Tim Berners-Lee? I'd say what they did ranks far, far higher than making an overpriced mp3 player.

Because it isn't about the 'greatest innovator of all time' it's about the innovators who made things (or are believed by the majority to have made things) that are extremely popular. Calling an iPod an overpriced mp3 is actually demeaning what I think is one of my most used and most enjoyed devices that I have ever owned ever. That is a pretty huge thing for me and for most others as well. I only have heard of the popular innovators like everyone else. I have never heard of either of the two you offered. People shouldn't expect everyone to know information that isn't general taught at basic education levels.

I'm curious as to where you went to school if they didn't teach you a single thing about technological advances in the last few centuries.
Nikola Tesla invented electricity.
Alan Turing invented computers.
Tim Berners-Lee invented the internet.

They're all pretty big things these days.

Steve Jobs didn't invent anything. Why? Because he was the CEO of the company, not a developer. And your fetish for one of Apple's products to the point where a technical description of it's features is "demeaning" doesn't change a thing about that, it just makes you look uneducated.

Tanis:

someonehairy-ish:

Tanis:
Steve Jobs was about as 'innovate' as Zynga.

Innovate isn't an adjective.

My bad, Grammar Not-Zii, 'innovative'...you happy now?

Yup.

Heil Grammar

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