Microsoft: No New Xbox in 2012

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Microsoft: No New Xbox in 2012

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The marketing director at Microsoft France just saved us from months of wild launch date speculation.

The Xbox 360 is rapidly approaching middle age in cat-years, meaning this year is open season for speculative reports on the prospective existence of its successor. Several of these reports hinted that Microsoft was intending to reveal its next console at E3 this summer, with a view to launching the machine before the end of the year. However, an executive from Microsoft France has now gone on the record to silence the rumor-mills and confirm that his company will not be releasing a new Xbox in 2012.

Cedrick Delmas, head of marketing at Microsoft France, described the company's position in an interview with French weekly LePoint.fr. (Translation provided by yours truly.) "We're in an industry that likes to talk a lot, to tell stories...The Xbox 360's cycle is nowhere near finished. The proof of that is that we're not planning to lower its price during this year."

"One thing which is certain is that there will be nothing new in 2012," he continued.

What is the Xbox 360 going to spend the year doing, then? "We want to extend the reach of Xbox Live across our installation base by developing a range of different services," explained Delmas, before revealing that "more than 50%" of the Xboxes sold in France over Christmas were bought with Kinect packs. "People come into the 360 universe via Kinect, and there's no doubt that that's helping us to reach a new audience," he said.

Well, that's that, it would seem. Microsoft looks like it plans to spend this year concentrating on developing Xbox Live, Kinect, and working on new ways to connect both of those things to various content sources. So much changes, so much stays the same. While launch-date speculation is off the table til next year, however, the field of features and spec rumors remains wide open. When it finally does arrive, will the next Xbox be called Xbox 720? Will it have found some way to spit your tarnished used games back at you with as much mechanized derision as a games console can muster? Will my cat be able to play it? Will online passes be replaced with fingerprint scanner on the power button? Will it make me tea? Starter blocks, people!

Source: LePoint.fr

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Aww. Shame.

Well, that's okay, I suppose. I can always wait for the Wii U to (possibly) come out this year and buy that instead.

Hevva:
Microsoft France

I don't believe him. Something's fishy.

So, does this mean we can also dismiss that rumour that the new 360 will attack the used game market? Because I was pretty sick of the folks who instantly screamed "MICROSOFT ARE SHAFTING US!" from the get-go.

Also, this might just be me being ignorant but... how would a 360 have Blu-Ray? Surely Sony owns that. Maybe I'm wrong there, though.

Good. That means that I won't have to worry about buying 2 or 3 new consoles this year. Though nothing new this year? Nothing at all? No new games, or items, or gizmos? WHAT ARE THEY THINKING! /taking quote out of context

Though this is an interesting situation in my opinion. Microsoft was the first to bring out a current generation console a year before the others. Now it sounds like they'll be coming out a year after. Wonder how that will affect them.

Good. Suck it dry before it dies, amirite?
Well, in this case, more so than others, seeing as how we have about reached the peak of graphic mountain.

Well that's good news for me. As a poor college student, I have neither the interest or moneys available to buy a shiny new Xbox console. I'm quite fine with my shiny old Xbox, and I'm glad that it will be seeing support for at least another year.

Good, I'll continue to not own an Xbox nor have to deal with advertisements for a new one.

Sparrow:
Also, this might just be me being ignorant but... how would a 360 have Blu-Ray? Surely Sony owns that. Maybe I'm wrong there, though.

You're wrong.

There, happy I could help.

Oh, you want to know why? All licencing for Bluray tech is handled by the Bluray Association, of which Sony is only one of 19 or so founding members.

And while Sony hold most of the patents on the discs, Panasonic hold most of the patents on the players... suffice to say that if Sony tried to play silly bastards with Bluray they'd quickly find themselves in the shit over it.

The best Sony could do is refuse to supply the Bluray players they manufacture to Microsoft... but that assumes Sony Consumer Electronics, Sony's main division, gives a royal fuck about the problems of Sony Computer Entertainment, the division in charge of their consoles... even then Microsoft could source Bluray players from other manufacturers.

Sparrow:
So, does this mean we can also dismiss that rumour that the new 360 will attack the used game market? Because I was pretty sick of the folks who instantly screamed "MICROSOFT ARE SHAFTING US!" from the get-go.

Also, this might just be me being ignorant but... how would a 360 have Blu-Ray? Surely Sony owns that. Maybe I'm wrong there, though.

I absolutely love how everyone just jumps to conclusions about the rumor mill. There was all of those rumors about how much better the next Xbox is gonna be than the WiiU (totally possible obviously), but no one knew anything but wild speculation about the vast majority of the rumors. No one can say for sure what the WiiU is even packing, let along what the next Xbox is going to be capable of.

Also, it's a popular misconception that Sony owns the rights to BluRay. They do not. There is a conglomeration of companies that hold percentages in the IP and process. It would also stand that if Sony owned the exclusive rights to BluRay, they could make a substantial amount of money licensing it to Microsoft. If one company owned the exclusive rights to a medium and did not just let any company use it, they would not create a new standard at all. Something only becomes a standard when everyone does it.

I wasn't aware that anyone was under the impression that the successor would be released this year. As far as I can remember, consoles have been released a year after they're officially revealed, so not having it this year isn't all too newsworthy for me.

I think a more pertinent question: what could you possibly want in a New Xbox Iteration?

I mean, the Xbox 360 controller hardly pushed the boundaries, it is essentially a Playstation 1 Dual Shock controller from 1998 just a bit of re-jiggered ergonomics, wireless and with trigger shoulder buttons. The only real improvement over that (other than FPS-freek peripherals) is a mouse + keyboard setup but:
1) you don't need a new console for that, just a firmware update
2) console gamers don't care for that, they are totally fine with thumbstick aiming.

And what is REALLY holding their big sellers back? COD is hitting 60fps consistently which is the maximum framerate of most HD Screens (refresh at 60Hz) and it does that with a low native resolution around 1040x600 pixel, but are people REALLY demanding full 1080p? You can only actually appreciate that detail by sitting either very close to your screen or by having a HUMONGOUS SCREEN (where either way each pixel is apparently larger).

So really I don't see the room for improvement.

PC games have been luring console gamers with WAY better graphics for so long now and console gamers simply are not bighting, I don't think there even is a real demand for more potent hardware.

I think any new Xbox is a LONG way off. I would be surprised to go all through 2013 with no new Xbox either.

Sparrow:
So, does this mean we can also dismiss that rumour that the new 360 will attack the used game market? Because I was pretty sick of the folks who instantly screamed "MICROSOFT ARE SHAFTING US!" from the get-go.

Also, this might just be me being ignorant but... how would a 360 have Blu-Ray? Surely Sony owns that. Maybe I'm wrong there, though.

Don't be ridiculous. This won't even quell the rumours of an XBox release in 2012.

Also, a few things about BD:

1. Sony WANTS market penetration with BD.
2. Sony and Microsoft are not the huge rivals people make them out to be.
3. The PS3 uses technology they have to license from Microsoft.
4. There is no 4.
5. Sony doesn't own BD. They're a big player in the BD consortium, but they did not develop the medium alone.

RhombusHatesYou:

Sparrow:
Also, this might just be me being ignorant but... how would a 360 have Blu-Ray? Surely Sony owns that. Maybe I'm wrong there, though.

You're wrong.

There, happy I could help.

Oh, you want to know why? All licencing for Bluray tech is handled by the Bluray Association, of which Sony is only one of 19 or so founding members.

And while Sony hold most of the patents on the discs, Panasonic hold most of the patents on the players... suffice to say that if Sony tried to play silly bastards with Bluray they'd quickly find themselves in the shit over it.

The best Sony could do is refuse to supply the Bluray players they manufacture to Microsoft... but that assumes Sony Consumer Electronics, Sony's main division, gives a royal fuck about the problems of Sony Computer Entertainment, the division in charge of their consoles... even then Microsoft could source Bluray players from other manufacturers.

Yes, but does Sony only have one-nineteenth of an influence, and does it only take one-nineteenth of the the royalties?

Even if it was allowed, Sony and Microsoft are competing in consoles. It could be that microsoft are too proud to give money to Sony for every one of their sales, they have never liked doing that. In fact they do the opposite, they Sued HTC (or someone) over patent rights and now are paid a certain amount for every phone their competition sells. They actually make more money off their competition paying them royalties than they make off their own Windows phones they make!

And Then there is the matter of wider business strategy, where is Xbox Live in blu-ray movie playback? Microsoft have been pushing internet delivered content as they can take a cut of that as well as much more control and its looking like their method could deliver equivalent quality without the disc.

Then there is the matter of design vision.

Did DVD replace VHS because of the video quality? Or was it the convenience of never having to rewind, discs taking up less space and the ability to play on smaller devices like laptops and in games consoles. It could be that digital-downloads and streaming are the true successor to DVD being so much more flexible and convenient (in certain ways). Blu-ray could be the equivalent of D-VHS trying to be used as commercial video. It's a straight upgrade to old tech rather than a revolutionary approach to the goal.

I personally don't care about blu-ray.

I download most of my films. Legitimately if the option is there to download/stream (as there often is) or I get it Torrent if not. I think we should be beyond discs, I see using physical media for films as a rather quaint and antiquated idea, even with "modern stuff" like blu-rays. Youtube can stream 1080p jsut fine with adequate bitrate.

While we are at it, Microsoft don't need to release a new Xbox iteration to move to all digital downloads ( a la steam) they just need to make some big releases on Xbox Live arcade at $50. Like gears of War 4 as XBLA exclusive. Maybe Rename XBL Arcade to something more fitting of how even big games are on there. Xbox Live... Zone... or something.

Treblaine:
I think we should be beyond discs

Unfortunately the people running the communications infrastructure in many countries don't believe that or they'd do something about the subpar, expensive services they offer.

High bandwidth internet solutions are simply not an option for many people.

RhombusHatesYou:

Treblaine:
I think we should be beyond discs

Unfortunately the people running the communications infrastructure in many countries don't believe that or they'd do something about the subpar, expensive services they offer.

High bandwidth internet solutions are simply not an option for many people.

Still use discs?

Discs would only be used as a means to get the data from point A to point B. Take PCs for example, people still buy discs to get the data easily yet don't actually rely on using discs while playing the game.

Blu-ray and HVDs are completely redundant once HDDs and SSDs are involved but they do provide a cheaper and easier method of transporting the physical data.

Ok, i guess this means the internet wont burn down till 2013.

Well, if SOPA's successors dont cause that first.

Given how hot the current one runs, I see no reason why the next one shouldn't be able to make tea, or indeed, bake your Hot Pockets.

fine by me, I could stand to have my 360 last a little longer.

Good. You see, unlike the rest of the world, I am not a millionaire. I barely bought my PS3 about two years ago when the price finally dropped to something reasonable. The release of a new console means there's gonna be peer pressure for the rest of the systems out there. So...CURSE YOU, WIIU!
God, I hate that name...

Seriously, people need to stop demanding a new console just because the current ones are more than 5 years old. It's not like they use cartridges or something. I can't think of a single valid reason we would need a new console.

Kapol:
Though nothing new this year? Nothing at all? No new games, or items, or gizmos? WHAT ARE THEY THINKING! /taking quote out of context

Taking quote in context:
Just because they aren't "releasing" the new console this year, which I had 1+1'd, doesn't mean they aren't spending 90% of their time developing the new console behind closed doors. It also doesn't mean we won't be seeing it at e3. That would surely cause quite an excitable stir.

Treblaine:
I think a more pertinent question: what could you possibly want in a New Xbox Iteration?

I mean, the Xbox 360 controller hardly pushed the boundaries, it is essentially a Playstation 1 Dual Shock controller from 1998 just a bit of re-jiggered ergonomics, wireless and with trigger shoulder buttons. The only real improvement over that (other than FPS-freek peripherals) is a mouse + keyboard setup but:
1) you don't need a new console for that, just a firmware update
2) console gamers don't care for that, they are totally fine with thumbstick aiming.

And what is REALLY holding their big sellers back? COD is hitting 60fps consistently which is the maximum framerate of most HD Screens (refresh at 60Hz) and it does that with a low native resolution around 1040x600 pixel, but are people REALLY demanding full 1080p? You can only actually appreciate that detail by sitting either very close to your screen or by having a HUMONGOUS SCREEN (where either way each pixel is apparently larger).

So really I don't see the room for improvement.

PC games have been luring console gamers with WAY better graphics for so long now and console gamers simply are not bighting, I don't think there even is a real demand for more potent hardware.

I think any new Xbox is a LONG way off. I would be surprised to go all through 2013 with no new Xbox either.

I always laugh when I read this argument.

"Console gamers dont want or need way better graphics. Thats why developers are constantly increasing the size of weapon models and just generally getting up to all kinds of trickery so they can squeeze a minimal bit of power out of the strained console to make room for better graphics. Because console gamers dont want better looking games."

Yeah, no, thats bullshit.

OT: Well fuck that. Its about time they role out the new consoles.

Good, I'm happy with my Xbox and can wait for something new for a long time yet.

And a million wallets cried out in joy! Hurrah, my old Elite can still play the latest games this year!!

Wait.. im curious.. Did anyone actually think the 360 progenitor would be released by the end of 2012?

[Yaaa, i finally got to use that for my own purposes!}

In all seriousness. If the new xbox console were to be released by the end of this year, we would have heard its announcement last year. Also given the problems with the launch incarnations of the 360. I think Microsoft is going to not try to repeat the mistake of making the announcement in may and releasing the console on november allowing for proper R&D time. So realistically I figure they would announce it some time this spring/summer (likely around E3)and may actually release late summer to mid fall of 2013, or they may actually wait for release as late as 2014, but that date will be determined more by Sony than it will be by microsoft as the longer sonys next gen is behind MS the more time they will utilize to work out bugs before release.

I'm happy it's not coming out this year. But notice how he didn't say anything about no announcement at E3? Yeah, I'm guessing an announcement about the next at either E3 this year or next. With the next Xbox coming out next year or the year after, depending on announce date. I'm not going to hurry out and buy a new Xbox, but the 360 is starting to hit it's limit I believe, it's been 6 full years, and the seventh isn't far.

Maybe is the language barrier but when, ever, someone said that there was a new xbox going to be released this year? The only thing I read about was that a new xbox was going to be announced.

French guy just word-played you into making the announcement a surprise again, maybe.

You know what? I'm happy at this announcement. I think the current gen still has the potential to pump out some great things and it would be a shame to thrust into the new gen just now.

50% in France?! Then that must be true for like ... EVERYWHERE!

Sparrow:
So, does this mean we can also dismiss that rumour that the new 360 will attack the used game market? Because I was pretty sick of the folks who instantly screamed "MICROSOFT ARE SHAFTING US!" from the get-go.

Also, this might just be me being ignorant but... how would a 360 have Blu-Ray? Surely Sony owns that. Maybe I'm wrong there, though.

I am not sure that sony actually owns the blu ray technology, but they were the first one to push it in their systems while microsoft was pushing the failed HDDVD. Kind of like how apple is pushing thunderbolt, which is intels tech, while everyone else is pushing inferior usb 3.0

Cats will not already ages of 7 years for the man year than at any time before, and A lot of people. Alternatively they get older rapidly in the first year, Subsequently slowing down operation considerably.

How old my cat get in years from Rights?

Cannot but several years equal to your cat of one year to an estimated of experts to have a good idea of ​​evolution based on the ways in which cats mature during her life. Tracy held her cat and the Bible, and offered human and cat for the first year of her life.

CHANGE: I love Xbox, Xbox is my best friend, my only friend, I love Xbox. I don't want new Xbox friend, I want to believe that I can still love my only friend, my Xbox friend my only.

Call me a Luddite, but I still don't understand why we need a new console generation.

Well accept maybe Sony, what with the development issues imposed by the PS3. But that's old hat.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Treblaine:
I think a more pertinent question: what could you possibly want in a New Xbox Iteration?

I mean, the Xbox 360 controller hardly pushed the boundaries, it is essentially a Playstation 1 Dual Shock controller from 1998 just a bit of re-jiggered ergonomics, wireless and with trigger shoulder buttons. The only real improvement over that (other than FPS-freek peripherals) is a mouse + keyboard setup but:
1) you don't need a new console for that, just a firmware update
2) console gamers don't care for that, they are totally fine with thumbstick aiming.

And what is REALLY holding their big sellers back? COD is hitting 60fps consistently which is the maximum framerate of most HD Screens (refresh at 60Hz) and it does that with a low native resolution around 1040x600 pixel, but are people REALLY demanding full 1080p? You can only actually appreciate that detail by sitting either very close to your screen or by having a HUMONGOUS SCREEN (where either way each pixel is apparently larger).

So really I don't see the room for improvement.

PC games have been luring console gamers with WAY better graphics for so long now and console gamers simply are not bighting, I don't think there even is a real demand for more potent hardware.

I think any new Xbox is a LONG way off. I would be surprised to go all through 2013 with no new Xbox either.

I always laugh when I read this argument.

"Console gamers dont want or need way better graphics. Thats why developers are constantly increasing the size of weapon models and just generally getting up to all kinds of trickery so they can squeeze a minimal bit of power out of the strained console to make room for better graphics. Because console gamers dont want better looking games."

Yeah, no, thats bullshit.

OT: Well fuck that. Its about time they role out the new consoles.

Call of Duty series' graphics have stagnated since Modern Warfare 2 and it has only sold LARGER numbers and the biggest selling game on both PS3 and 360 isn't close to the best in graphics. MW3 in was looks worse than MW2 yet it's sold in only 11 weeks 23 million copies on consoles alone.

I've tried to convince so many console gamers to PC gaming with the lure of DX11 graphics and they don't give a crap, they say it's close enough to the DX9-like Xbox 360 standard that they don't see it worth neither the time, money nor effort. There is tepid to no-buzz about the Wii-U being more powerful, people are most concerned about the controller and Nintendo's practices in general. Look at the interviews with Reggie, they press him more on how the online network will be than how powerful it will be.

Minecraft has been the runaway hit with some of the most basic graphics of any game released in the past 20 years. TF2 is the most lucrative and well known multiplayer PC game and it has very abstract non-realism graphics. The most popular multiplayer game on Steam is still Counterstrike.

Games like Bodycount that have gorgeous graphics fail miserably as they completely failed to deliver on gameplay. Final Fantasy 13, again going for gorgeous cutting-edge graphics but it gets panned and ignored for bad pacing, the graphics couldn't save it (though brand loyalty could preserve it). Similar extent with id software's RAGE. Graphics can't sell a game any more, it has to be gameplay.

Publishers tend to aim for best graphics because that is a tangible goal, it's easy to put your work side by side with the competition and say "yep, we're doing good here" in terms of graphical fidelity. But saying you have better gameplay, well that is far more subjective and until you have everything in place you don't know if you are going at all in the right direction. It's also so risky. Uncharted, wonderful graphics yet Uncharted 3 has only sold around 3 million units compared to about 5 million of Gears of War 3.

Look, I'm not saying Xbox 360 will be the last console ever released to the public. I'm just saying there won't be a new one until there is a significantly large demand for better graphics.

Now Microsoft/Sony COULD release a new 1080p console but if there is low demand for it and few buy it then they will lose a lot of money building chipsets earlier when they are more expensive only for boxes to sit on shelves depreciating. A new console they have to go all in and set it off the a swinging start, they must very quickly get over the hump of having a small install-base that limits multiplayer, and marketability by third parties.

RhombusHatesYou:

Treblaine:
I think we should be beyond discs

Unfortunately the people running the communications infrastructure in many countries don't believe that or they'd do something about the subpar, expensive services they offer.

High bandwidth internet solutions are simply not an option for many people.

Well, I think the prevalence of torrenting and unauthorised streaming of video suggest most people can.

They are already being served ads... why can't the ACTUAL content holders put their stuff online rather than Megaupload or its inevitable successor? And plenty of legitimate services like BBC iPlayer and Netflix.

Even with an average download speed of about 6 megabits/second (US average), that's 2.7GB an hour. You can download a HD movie way quicker than you can order it in the mail or fetch it from the shops unless you happen to live very close to a rental store.

Remember, 1080p is usually overkill, you need a HUGE television to actually resolve that detail (by analogy, imagine you had a tiny palm sized screen ou either need to press your face very close or settle for not seeing the detail that 1920x1080 pixels offer).

One thing I'll say is that Blu-ray isn't an economical option with the prices their discs sell for. There should be some sort of middle ground for say 720p films as many people only have 720p televisions or computer monitors.

Treblaine:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Treblaine:
I think a more pertinent question: what could you possibly want in a New Xbox Iteration?

I mean, the Xbox 360 controller hardly pushed the boundaries, it is essentially a Playstation 1 Dual Shock controller from 1998 just a bit of re-jiggered ergonomics, wireless and with trigger shoulder buttons. The only real improvement over that (other than FPS-freek peripherals) is a mouse + keyboard setup but:
1) you don't need a new console for that, just a firmware update
2) console gamers don't care for that, they are totally fine with thumbstick aiming.

And what is REALLY holding their big sellers back? COD is hitting 60fps consistently which is the maximum framerate of most HD Screens (refresh at 60Hz) and it does that with a low native resolution around 1040x600 pixel, but are people REALLY demanding full 1080p? You can only actually appreciate that detail by sitting either very close to your screen or by having a HUMONGOUS SCREEN (where either way each pixel is apparently larger).

So really I don't see the room for improvement.

PC games have been luring console gamers with WAY better graphics for so long now and console gamers simply are not bighting, I don't think there even is a real demand for more potent hardware.

I think any new Xbox is a LONG way off. I would be surprised to go all through 2013 with no new Xbox either.

I always laugh when I read this argument.

"Console gamers dont want or need way better graphics. Thats why developers are constantly increasing the size of weapon models and just generally getting up to all kinds of trickery so they can squeeze a minimal bit of power out of the strained console to make room for better graphics. Because console gamers dont want better looking games."

Yeah, no, thats bullshit.

OT: Well fuck that. Its about time they role out the new consoles.

Call of Duty series' graphics have stagnated since Modern Warfare 2 and it has only sold LARGER numbers and the biggest selling game on both PS3 and 360 isn't close to the best in graphics. MW3 in was looks worse than MW2 yet it's sold in only 11 weeks 23 million copies on consoles alone.

I've tried to convince so many console gamers to PC gaming with the lure of DX11 graphics and they don't give a crap, they say it's close enough to the DX9-like Xbox 360 standard that they don't see it worth neither the time, money nor effort. There is tepid to no-buzz about the Wii-U being more powerful, people are most concerned about the controller and Nintendo's practices in general. Look at the interviews with Reggie, they press him more on how the online network will be than how powerful it will be.

Minecraft has been the runaway hit with some of the most basic graphics of any game released in the past 20 years. TF2 is the most lucrative and well known multiplayer PC game and it has very abstract non-realism graphics. The most popular multiplayer game on Steam is still Counterstrike.

Games like Bodycount that have gorgeous graphics fail miserably as they completely failed to deliver on gameplay. Final Fantasy 13, again going for gorgeous cutting-edge graphics but it gets panned and ignored for bad pacing, the graphics couldn't save it (though brand loyalty could preserve it). Similar extent with id software's RAGE. Graphics can't sell a game any more, it has to be gameplay.

Publishers tend to aim for best graphics because that is a tangible goal, it's easy to put your work side by side with the competition and say "yep, we're doing good here" in terms of graphical fidelity. But saying you have better gameplay, well that is far more subjective and until you have everything in place you don't know if you are going at all in the right direction. It's also so risky. Uncharted, wonderful graphics yet Uncharted 3 has only sold around 3 million units compared to about 5 million of Gears of War 3.

Look, I'm not saying Xbox 360 will be the last console ever released to the public. I'm just saying there won't be a new one until there is a significantly large demand for better graphics.

Now Microsoft/Sony COULD release a new 1080p console but if there is low demand for it and few buy it then they will lose a lot of money building chipsets earlier when they are more expensive only for boxes to sit on shelves depreciating. A new console they have to go all in and set it off the a swinging start, they must very quickly get over the hump of having a small install-base that limits multiplayer, and marketability by third parties.

Well now you are straight up twisting my words. I never said graphics are the only thing that matters, so the success of Minecraft is irrelevant.

The thing about PC gaming, DX11, and all that fancy stuff is that in order to use it you need to know your way around a PC and an OP. The vast majority of console gamers dont, simple as that. These people dont want to switch to PC gaming because the very prospect of installing a driver confuses them. Just look at the success Apple have had. You know whats at the core of Apples success? Not hype, not Jobs, no, Apple is successful because using their devices is about as tricky as using a toaster. You press a button, either it works, or it doesnt work. On a PC, thats a very different story. Things work, but you have to do a lot of stuff to get there. Thats whats holding people away from PC gaming.

And you know what? That is perfectly fine. Some people just want to insert a disc and play, and who am I to judge? But you cant turn that into "They dont want/need better graphics".

Mark my words, when the new console generation comes around, people will be crying about it, saying they dont want them and they dont want to spend the money. And once they are out, people will not want to live without them.

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