The Father of Computer Science is Still a Criminal

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The Father of Computer Science is Still a Criminal

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The British House of Lords has refused to grant a posthumous pardon to legendary cryptanalyst and mathematician, Alan Turing.

You might have heard of Alan Turing. He formalised the concepts of algorithm and computation. His Turing Machine, designed in 1936, was an early blueprint for the electronic digital computer. The device you're using to read this article is, in part, based on Turing's work. During WWII he worked for the Government Code and Cypher School where he devised several techniques for breaking German ciphers.

Turing's reward for helping defeat one of the 20th century's greatest threats, and ushering in its most far-reaching technological revolution, was chemical castration.
An active homosexual, Turing was arrested in 1952 after a spat with a former lover. As homosexuality was considered illegal at the time, Turing faced a charge of gross indecency and chose to be chemically castrated via female hormone treatments rather than face prison. Two years later he committed suicide.

In 2009, Prime Minister Gordon Brown apologised on behalf of the British Government, admitting that Turing "deserved much better." This lead to a petition to have Turing posthumously pardoned for the offense. The petition, which was started by computer scientist John Graham-Cumming and backed by big names including Ian McEwan and Richard Dawkins, was rejected last week.

"A posthumous pardon was not considered appropriate as Alan Turing was properly convicted of what at the time was a criminal offense. He would have known that his offense was against the law and that he would be prosecuted."

"It is tragic that Alan Turing was convicted of an offense which now seems both cruel and absurd-particularly poignant given his outstanding contribution to the war effort. However, the law at the time required a prosecution and, as such, long-standing policy has been to accept that such convictions took place and, rather than trying to alter the historical context and to put right what cannot be put right, ensure instead that we never again return to those times."

On the bright side, Turing is going to get his own stamp! I'm sure that's some consolation.

Permalink

Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester, only given till his work was done, before being given the choice of imprisonment, or chemical castration.

He decided on the chems. He then committed suicide.

If people think that The British House of Lords is some sort of evil homophobic group, so be it... but perhaps what was possibly 'swept under the rug' is why they refuse to pardon the man.

(The Prime Minister who eventually 'apologized' to him was a baby when Alan Turing was convicted. Just sayin.)

Fortunately, I don't think he particularly cares either way, being dead and all. And being an eventually castrated homosexual who killed himself, I doubt he had many descendants who are overly concerned about the family legacy either.

I actually think they did the right thing here. I buy their motivation, it sounds reasonable to me. Not that it will matter to him anyway...

Understandable

Posthumous pardons are always a tricky business; it is difficult to discern a proper course of action unless one is able to directly address the accused

But then again if we could do that he would be a zombie, and video games have taught me that the living dead care little for court rulings

-Joshua Oswald

While sucky, it's not surprising. While the law was bullshit, it WAS the law at the time and he broke it. Pardoning someone for a "crime" he DID commit is a massive can of worms you don't want to open. It sucks, but you don't go making exceptions in law or the whole bloody thing falls to bits.

Sober Thal:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester, only given till his work was done, before being given the choice of imprisonment, or chemical castration.

He decided on the chems. He then committed suicide.

If people think that The British House of Lords is some sort of evil homophobic group, so be it... but perhaps what was possibly 'swept under the rug' is why they refuse to pardon the man.

(The Prime Minister who eventually 'apologized' to him was a baby when Alan Turing was convicted. Just sayin.)

Yep, and one of the reasons why left wing politics drive me crazy. The guy pretty much got what he deserved.

It's sort of like saying that because Hitler made many great contributions, especially before World War II (the guy was an international "man of the year") that we should pardon him for all of his crimes, like that little holocaust thing, so he can be remembered as a humanitarian and economic reformist....

To put this into perspective, despite his sexual orientation being a crime he managed to rise to a position of great prominance. What he was doing would doubtlessly have been overlooked it it wasn't for associated crimes. Fair or not, social status has always had it's privleges, and keeping certain things "in the closet" at the time was one of them. If he had not been a child molester, this would have fallen under the catagory of "vile rumor" which right now given how the political conditions changing would perhaps be validated as true.

While Turing was a few steps less, perhaps we should re-consider the case of Gilles De Rais... as well. I mean while we're on the subject. He had his great battlefield victories and even fought alongside Joan Of Arc... should he not be remembered for that as opposed to his personal habits...

Therumancer:

Sober Thal:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester, only given till his work was done, before being given the choice of imprisonment, or chemical castration.

He decided on the chems. He then committed suicide.

If people think that The British House of Lords is some sort of evil homophobic group, so be it... but perhaps what was possibly 'swept under the rug' is why they refuse to pardon the man.

(The Prime Minister who eventually 'apologized' to him was a baby when Alan Turing was convicted. Just sayin.)

Yep, and one of the reasons why left wing politics drive me crazy. The guy pretty much got what he deserved.

Would either of you care to provide a credible source?

No matter what your opinion on homosexuality, you can't deny Turing really took it in the ass.No matter what your opinion, you can't deny Turing really took it in the ass.

Sober Thal:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester,

And I heard Obama was allegedly a Muslim, Kenyan, Nazi. I also heard that people that tend to say a lot of nasty things about you when they're trying to get you out of the way.

Therumancer:
Yep, and one of the reasons why left wing politics drive me crazy. The guy pretty much got what he deserved.

Yeah, who needs little things like a conscience. Once you've killed the guy (or even better driven him to kill himself) the deed is done, and everyone should just forget about it.

With respect, denying a dead man a little dignity for posterity's sake is something of a 'beating the dead horse' moment. People convicted of crimes and then proven innocent by the DNA testing that came years later are released. We can't go "Sorry, Turing, old chap. It was all hot-blooded intolerance and foolishness in the end.", now that being gay isn't a crime? I find that pathetic, especially since he certainly can't harm anyone NOW. I suppose he'll announce candidacy and win an election against a living man, since it's happened before in the U.S., right?

Therumancer:

Sober Thal:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester, only given till his work was done, before being given the choice of imprisonment, or chemical castration.

He decided on the chems. He then committed suicide.

If people think that The British House of Lords is some sort of evil homophobic group, so be it... but perhaps what was possibly 'swept under the rug' is why they refuse to pardon the man.

(The Prime Minister who eventually 'apologized' to him was a baby when Alan Turing was convicted. Just sayin.)

Yep, and one of the reasons why left wing politics drive me crazy. The guy pretty much got what he deserved.

It's sort of like saying that because Hitler made many great contributions, especially before World War II (the guy was an international "man of the year") that we should pardon him for all of his crimes, like that little holocaust thing, so he can be remembered as a humanitarian and economic reformist....

To put this into perspective, despite his sexual orientation being a crime he managed to rise to a position of great prominance. What he was doing would doubtlessly have been overlooked it it wasn't for associated crimes. Fair or not, social status has always had it's privleges, and keeping certain things "in the closet" at the time was one of them. If he had not been a child molester, this would have fallen under the catagory of "vile rumor" which right now given how the political conditions changing would perhaps be validated as true.

While Turing was a few steps less, perhaps we should re-consider the case of Gilles De Rais... as well. I mean while we're on the subject. He had his great battlefield victories and even fought alongside Joan Of Arc... should he not be remembered for that as opposed to his personal habits...

I wouldn't go so far as to bring up Hitler... I fear the flames... but I would put the German scientists (and those from other nations before the 1960's and on) who committed 'atrocities' in the name of developing medical science, towards what is today, in the same lot.

I just don't think the refusal of a pardon is for no good reason, I don't think the House of Lords are all hateful homo-phobics.

Gilles De Rais was a Breton, and that's my favorite race from The Elder Scrolls, so I'll give him a pass, even tho I never use the child killing mods....

/last line was a joke...

DVS BSTrD:
No matter what your opinion on homosexuality, you can't deny Turing really took it in the ass.No matter what your opinion, you can't deny Turing really took it in the ass.

Sober Thal:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester,

And I heard Obama was allegedly a Muslim, Kenyan, Nazi. I also heard that people that tend to say a lot of nasty things about you when they're trying to get you out of the way.

Yeah, Obama....

That makes so much sense in this same context!

Why else would people refuse to elect him as President of the United States!

Oh wait...

Sober Thal:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester, only given till his work was done, before being given the choice of imprisonment, or chemical castration.

He decided on the chems. He then committed suicide.

If people think that The British House of Lords is some sort of evil homophobic group, so be it... but perhaps what was possibly 'swept under the rug' is why they refuse to pardon the man.

(The Prime Minister who eventually 'apologized' to him was a baby when Alan Turing was convicted. Just sayin.)

Call my crazy but I think your lying since you don't have any sort of citations and I didn't find anything about that from an admittedly simple search.

For god's sake!

-A pardon states that you were innocent of the crime that you were convicted of.
-It was illegal at the time to be homosexual
-Turing was homosexual
-Turing was in breach of that law.

He was given an appology, but a pardon is not possible under the law. It would be meaningless under the law. And since it is a legal action, it would be pointless to do it. People think that because they ask someone to 'pardon them' when they bump into them in the corridor that it is synonomous with forgiveness, but under the law it is a very specific thing.

They are not saying that the law was right, they are not saying that being gay is wrong, they are simply stating what the law was and what the facts are.

Worgen:

Sober Thal:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester, only given till his work was done, before being given the choice of imprisonment, or chemical castration.

He decided on the chems. He then committed suicide.

If people think that The British House of Lords is some sort of evil homophobic group, so be it... but perhaps what was possibly 'swept under the rug' is why they refuse to pardon the man.

(The Prime Minister who eventually 'apologized' to him was a baby when Alan Turing was convicted. Just sayin.)

Call my crazy but I think your lying since you don't have any sort of citations and I didn't find anything about that from an admittedly simple search.

Wikipedia is a simple search.... perhaps you didn't see that part?

A nonfiction historian (Anthony Cave Brown) wrote about it. I would dare to say he was almost an expert (more than you or I) on the goings on of the WWII era behind the scenes...

But I just think it's a more valid reason for the House of Lords to not pardon him as opposed to they just being evil homophobes.

Savvy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Cave_Brown

That's just stupid. "Pardons" are called "pardons" for a reason. It's the government forgiving you for committing a crime that you did commit, not one that you didn't. It's a way of saying "We know you did something illegal but we're going to let you get away with it." Pardons aren't appeals on sentences. Pardons are forgiveness for sentences. They weren't asking for them to undo the court's decision. They were asking the British Government to forgive the crimes, not find that no crimes were committed. Seriously, do these people even know what a "pardon" is?

Sober Thal:

Wikipedia is a simple search.... perhaps you didn't see that part?

A nonfiction historian (Anthony Cave Brown) wrote about it. I would dare to say he was almost an expert (more than you or I) on the goings on of the WWII era behind the scenes...

But I just think it's a more valid reason for the House of Lords to not pardon him as opposed to they just being evil homophobes.

Savvy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Cave_Brown

Emphasis is my own.

Early in 1944 a suspicion arose that he might have been the man responsible for molesting schoolboys at the main public library in Luton, a large industrial town not far from Bletchley. While no proceedings arose, it was decided that the need for good order and discipline required his removal - but not before he had done his finest work.

Grey Carter:
"...rather than trying to alter the historical context and to put right what cannot be put right, ensure instead that we never again return to those times."

I agree with this.

As a history teacher, I believe that history should be presented in all of it's holy and unholy glory. Don't gear it toward an agenda. Even if that agenda is considered good, it doesn't matter. History should be laid bare in its facts. Let the individual, not society or the government, place value judgements on history, whatever they may be.

When an individual pushes to have society or the government recognize/accept those value judgements, even if those views are more enlightened that the ones in the past, it's just another step away from presenting history unbiased.

Better to, as this man said, accept that the past happened the way that it did and learn from it. Allow people to make up their own minds about history, rather than trying to establish social view of history based on an multicultural/tolerance agenda.

To be clear, I am NOT AGAINST a multicultural/tolerance agenda, I am simply against co-opting history into ANY agenda. Present history unfettered and raw, then let individual people make of it what they will.

Grey Carter:

Sober Thal:

Wikipedia is a simple search.... perhaps you didn't see that part?

A nonfiction historian (Anthony Cave Brown) wrote about it. I would dare to say he was almost an expert (more than you or I) on the goings on of the WWII era behind the scenes...

But I just think it's a more valid reason for the House of Lords to not pardon him as opposed to they just being evil homophobes.

Savvy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Cave_Brown

Emphasis is my own.

Early in 1944 a suspicion arose that he might have been the man responsible for molesting schoolboys at the main public library in Luton, a large industrial town not far from Bletchley. While no proceedings arose, it was decided that the need for good order and discipline required his removal - but not before he had done his finest work.

Exactly.

Why else would they deny this man an absolution of his 'crimes'? They waited till he was done with his work, then charged him a lesser sentence, and even let him choose his punishment. Who else, but a man with with great ideas for their progress, would they let decide his own fate after the fact? Is it so crazy to think the powers that be can hide things because they want a result?

I have no inside knowledge about what happened, but this just makes more sense than 'The House of Lords are just bitter homophobes'.

Sober Thal:

Worgen:

Sober Thal:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester, only given till his work was done, before being given the choice of imprisonment, or chemical castration.

He decided on the chems. He then committed suicide.

If people think that The British House of Lords is some sort of evil homophobic group, so be it... but perhaps what was possibly 'swept under the rug' is why they refuse to pardon the man.

(The Prime Minister who eventually 'apologized' to him was a baby when Alan Turing was convicted. Just sayin.)

Call my crazy but I think your lying since you don't have any sort of citations and I didn't find anything about that from an admittedly simple search.

Wikipedia is a simple search.... perhaps you didn't see that part?

A nonfiction historian (Anthony Cave Brown) wrote about it. I would dare to say he was almost an expert (more than you or I) on the goings on of the WWII era behind the scenes...

But I just think it's a more valid reason for the House of Lords to not pardon him as opposed to they just being evil homophobes.

Savvy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Cave_Brown

Brown's page makes no mention of Turing. Turing's article contains the following excerpt:

Menzies had known that Turing was a practicing and aggressive homosexual; this had emerged soon after his employment at Bletchley. But since he caused no offence to his colleagues at Bletchley, and since he was perhaps the only man in Menzies's service who might have been called 'indispensable,' his services were retained... Early in 1944 a suspicion arose that he might have been the man responsible for molesting schoolboys at the main public library in Luton, a large industrial town not far from Bletchley. While no proceedings arose, it was decided that the need for good order and discipline required his removal - but not before he had done his finest work.

So we have a historian noting that someone suspected Turing of molesting children in 1944, in what was still an incredibly toxic homophobic environment.

That's a pretty piss-poor argument to base your accusations on.

I prefer not to jump to conclusions in such matters...

Regardless, the situation should probably lay where it stands, as we know the cruelty that occurred, justified or not, and hold no judgement of him; at least, none that actually matters.

cobra_ky:

Sober Thal:

Worgen:

Call my crazy but I think your lying since you don't have any sort of citations and I didn't find anything about that from an admittedly simple search.

Wikipedia is a simple search.... perhaps you didn't see that part?

A nonfiction historian (Anthony Cave Brown) wrote about it. I would dare to say he was almost an expert (more than you or I) on the goings on of the WWII era behind the scenes...

But I just think it's a more valid reason for the House of Lords to not pardon him as opposed to they just being evil homophobes.

Savvy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Cave_Brown

Brown's page makes no mention of Turing. Turing's article contains the following excerpt:

Menzies had known that Turing was a practicing and aggressive homosexual; this had emerged soon after his employment at Bletchley. But since he caused no offence to his colleagues at Bletchley, and since he was perhaps the only man in Menzies's service who might have been called 'indispensable,' his services were retained... Early in 1944 a suspicion arose that he might have been the man responsible for molesting schoolboys at the main public library in Luton, a large industrial town not far from Bletchley. While no proceedings arose, it was decided that the need for good order and discipline required his removal - but not before he had done his finest work.

So we have a historian noting that someone suspected Turing of molesting children in 1944, in what was still an incredibly toxic homophobic environment.

That's a pretty piss-poor argument to base your accusations on.

But taking Prime Minster Gordon Brown's word of apology, even though he (The Prime Minister) was only a year old at the time of Turings sentencing, makes him deserving of absolution?

Yeah...

Sober Thal:

Exactly.

Why else would they deny this man an absolution of his 'crimes'? They waited till he was done with his work, then charged him a lesser sentence, and even let him choose his punishment. Who else, but a man with with great ideas for their progress, would they let decide his own fate after the fact? Is it sp crazy to think the powers that be can hide things because they want a result?

Yes. Yes, it's pretty crazy to think that the House of Lords today refused to pardon him because they are guarding the secret coverup of the crimes Alan Turing supposedly committed 50 years ago. Never mind that if they actually wanted to cover it up that badly, they simply could have granted the pardon and not lent any credence to your conspiracy theory. I'm sure you could then twist some other event in order to support the conclusion you've already reached.

Sober Thal:
I have no inside knowledge about what happened, but this just makes more sense than 'The House of Lords are just bitter homophobes'.

Idk, I think that makes an awful lot of sense considering the very law he was convicted under was itself bitterly homophobic.

I very much agree with the decision on this. Nobody thinks that his crime and punishment was fair nowadays except for the very backwards kind of thinkers. It's not standing because he's a criminal, it's standing because it's history.

History is history, good or bad. Trying to alter it isn't the way to go even for the best of intentions. We need it to learn from it.

cobra_ky:

Sober Thal:

Exactly.

Why else would they deny this man an absolution of his 'crimes'? They waited till he was done with his work, then charged him a lesser sentence, and even let him choose his punishment. Who else, but a man with with great ideas for their progress, would they let decide his own fate after the fact? Is it sp crazy to think the powers that be can hide things because they want a result?

Yes. Yes, it's pretty crazy to think that the House of Lords today refused to pardon him because they are guarding the secret coverup of the crimes Alan Turing supposedly committed 50 years ago. Never mind that if they actually wanted to cover it up that badly, they simply could have granted the pardon and not lent any credence to your conspiracy theory. I'm sure you could then twist some other event in order to support the conclusion you've already reached.

Sober Thal:
I have no inside knowledge about what happened, but this just makes more sense than 'The House of Lords are just bitter homophobes'.

Idk, I think that makes an awful lot of sense considering the very law he was convicted under was itself bitterly homophobic.

Then why do they not pardon him, if not for the fact that there may be something they don't want to admit that he was guilty of? Is it so crazy to think that they have knowledge they would rather not release to the public?

EDIT: Was there ever a massive amount of people given the choice between prison and chemical castration that I am not aware of? Pertaining to being a homosexual I mean.

Sober Thal:

Then why do they not pardon him, if not for the fact that there may be something they don't want to admit that he was guilty of? Is it so crazy to think that they have knowledge they would rather not release to the public?

EDIT: Was there ever a massive amount of people given the choice between prison and chemical castration that I am not aware of? Pertaining to being a homosexual I mean.

In the UK it was offered as a "treatment" for homosexuality. People ofted for it to reduce their sentences, in the same way you might get a lesser sentence for drunk driving if you agree to go to rehab.

Sober Thal:
But taking Prime Minster Gordon Brown's word of apology, even though he (The Prime Minister) was only a year old at the time of Turings sentencing, makes him deserving of absolution?

Yeah...

Uh, no, the presumption of innocence does.

And who cares how old Brown was at the time? Were you even alive then?

Sober Thal:

cobra_ky:

Sober Thal:

Exactly.

Why else would they deny this man an absolution of his 'crimes'? They waited till he was done with his work, then charged him a lesser sentence, and even let him choose his punishment. Who else, but a man with with great ideas for their progress, would they let decide his own fate after the fact? Is it sp crazy to think the powers that be can hide things because they want a result?

Yes. Yes, it's pretty crazy to think that the House of Lords today refused to pardon him because they are guarding the secret coverup of the crimes Alan Turing supposedly committed 50 years ago. Never mind that if they actually wanted to cover it up that badly, they simply could have granted the pardon and not lent any credence to your conspiracy theory. I'm sure you could then twist some other event in order to support the conclusion you've already reached.

Sober Thal:
I have no inside knowledge about what happened, but this just makes more sense than 'The House of Lords are just bitter homophobes'.

Idk, I think that makes an awful lot of sense considering the very law he was convicted under was itself bitterly homophobic.

Then why do they not pardon him, if not for the fact that there may be something they don't want to admit that he was guilty of?

Because they're stuffy jerks who don't want to admit the state was wrong to chemical castrate one of their greatest heroes and drive him to suicide? I think they'd be more likely to cover the ass of their predecessors than a supposed child molester, in which case i remind you that if they actually wanted to cover for him they would have granted the pardon.

Grey Carter:

Sober Thal:

Then why do they not pardon him, if not for the fact that there may be something they don't want to admit that he was guilty of? Is it so crazy to think that they have knowledge they would rather not release to the public?

EDIT: Was there ever a massive amount of people given the choice between prison and chemical castration that I am not aware of? Pertaining to being a homosexual I mean.

In the UK it was offered as a "treatment" for homosexuality. People ofted for it to reduce their sentences, in the same way you might get a lesser sentence for drunk driving if you agree to go to rehab.

In hind sight, chem punishment, that lead to his suicide, is an opted 'lesser' sentence than prison? Nah, I don't think so either.

Again, I don't think the House of Lords would deny him a pardon just cause they hate gay people.

I am probably just reading too far into these lines:

"A posthumous pardon was not considered appropriate as Alan Turing was properly convicted of what at the time was a criminal offense. He would have known that his offense was against the law and that he would be prosecuted."

To me, this sounds like a serious look at what they considered happened back then, not just 'we don't like the gays'.

For the record,

-'Chemical castration is the administration of medication designed to reduce libido and sexual activity, usually in the hope of preventing rapists, child molesters and other sex offenders from repeating their crimes. '-

He was a convicted sex offender, the meaning behind that is different now, they STILL won't pardon him... maybe it wasn't as cut and dry as we are lead to believe?

I think it's an interesting story to talk about. I don't think I'm wrong to bring up these points considering they make sense to me.

Was he responsible for being a brilliant mind in the age of computer infancy? Hell fucking yeah. Could he have been twisted? Sure, and perhaps he was just ridiculed and suffered for his personal decent sexual activities...

Either way, I am glad he made the progress he did, so I can type this now.

Cheers!

Sober Thal:

DVS BSTrD:
No matter what your opinion on homosexuality, you can't deny Turing really took it in the ass.No matter what your opinion, you can't deny Turing really took it in the ass.

Sober Thal:
Again, people gloss over how he was allegedly a child molester,

And I heard Obama was allegedly a Muslim, Kenyan, Nazi. I also heard that people that tend to say a lot of nasty things about you when they're trying to get you out of the way.

Yeah, Obama....

That makes so much sense in this same context!

Why else would people refuse to elect him as President of the United States!

Oh wait...

Why else would people want to destroy the life of a gay man in 1950's Britain?

OH WAIT!
They waited until he was of no further use then disposed of him. And IF they had credible evidence that he was child molester, why not charge him with that?

DVS BSTrD:

Sober Thal:

DVS BSTrD:
No matter what your opinion on homosexuality, you can't deny Turing really took it in the ass.No matter what your opinion, you can't deny Turing really took it in the ass.
And I heard Obama was allegedly a Muslim, Kenyan, Nazi. I also heard that people that tend to say a lot of nasty things about you when they're trying to get you out of the way.

Yeah, Obama....

That makes so much sense in this same context!

Why else would people refuse to elect him as President of the United States!

Oh wait...

Why else would people want to destroy the life of a gay man in 1950's Britain?

OH WAIT!
They waited until he was of no further use then disposed of him. And IF they had credible evidence that he was child molester, why not charge him with that?

Well, they charged him (and convicted him) with a sex crime, and then let him decide his punishment... imprisonment, or chem castration. Why? Cause they liked his work.

If they were afraid he was going to go sell his secrets to the highest bidder, I could understand false charges.... but I have yet to hear that that was the case.

They made the right call. No matter his contributions to society he was still guilty of a criminal offence. It does not matter one bit what we think of the laws back then. So it is only right that he stay a criminal.

Hmmm, as much as it would seem like "He deserves a posthumous pardon"; I think preserving the historical context is good. We need to know about the horrors and stupidity of our past if we are to repeat them more effectively move forward without falling into the same patterns.

That last part was a joke, I in no way advocate the repression of people regardless of their race or sexuality. What happened then was wrong but a symbolic pardon now would change little.

Monkeyman O'Brien:
They made the right call. No matter his contributions to society he was still guilty of a criminal offence. It does not matter one bit what we think of the laws back then. So it is only right that he stay a criminal.

What a progressive attitude you have there, sir.

OT: This kind of deference to upholding old laws for the sake of avoiding revisionist history is a gross logical fallacy. Granting someone a pardon for acts which are now decriminalised will not change the fact that the history books record his treatment, and curious minds will wonder how a society could imprison such a great man over something we have now come to accept as an innate human right. Imagine if the South African government had pulled this kind of shit when they overturned the ban on the ANC. "Yes, it is no longer a prohibited organisation, but pardoning Nelson Mandela would seek to rewrite history. We prefer that he stays in prison as a living reminder of the grim times we used to live in."

Because that's basically what they're stating here. Let's just imagine Alan Turing was alive for a moment: how many of you would be against him being pardoned then?

Sober Thal:

DVS BSTrD:

Sober Thal:

Yeah, Obama....

That makes so much sense in this same context!

Why else would people refuse to elect him as President of the United States!

Oh wait...

Why else would people want to destroy the life of a gay man in 1950's Britain?

OH WAIT!
They waited until he was of no further use then disposed of him. And IF they had credible evidence that he was child molester, why not charge him with that?

Well, they charged him (and convicted him) with a sex crime, and then let him decide his punishment... imprisonment, or chem castration. Why? Cause they liked his work.

Such great choices.
Remind me never to work for the British government.

If they were afraid he was going to go sell his secrets to the highest bidder, I could understand false charges.... but I have yet to hear that that was the case.

I wasn't talking about state secrets.
Never underestimate the power of bigotry

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