Eventidal: If the next CoD were $30, imagine how many more people would be all over that?
I take issue with this part. Modern Warfare 3 broke every sales record known to man in like the first week it was out. I doubt they could have doubled that figure, so dropping the price to $30 would probably have lost them a considerable amount of profit.
On the same token, the fact that they made such a ridiculous amount of money shortly after release shows that enough people have the money to buy games new at the current price that it doesn't really matter.
It's not like the PC has a used game market either.
If this happens I will just have to coordinate with my friend. We will each by half the games we want, then just trade off our console and game library.
That is only if the Sony does this BS as well... If not then I'm switching over to Playstation.
Eventidal: If the next CoD were $30, imagine how many more people would be all over that?
I take issue with this part. Modern Warfare 3 broke every sales record known to man in like the first week it was out. I doubt they could have doubled that figure, so dropping the price to $30 would probably have lost them a considerable amount of profit.
On the same token, the fact that they made such a ridiculous amount of money shortly after release shows that enough people have the money to buy games new at the current price that it doesn't really matter.
It's not like the PC has a used game market either.
You have a point. CoD was a bad example to give. This would apply more to games like... El Shaddai, or Metro 2033. Those lesser-known games that are fairly marketable and enjoyable, but don't have the advantage of already having a ravenous horde of all-consuming fans behind them to jump in no matter what their beef with the series. (Really.. it's insane. I know nobody IRL who actually likes CoD for CoD. Yet the handful I know who bought it, mainly got it to piss off other players online and get their online shooting fix. (and to finish the story, because it's so engrossing I guess?) They won't admit it but they're buying a $60 game every year or so because it's got them hooked like an IV drip of liquid cocaine. So, bad example. They hate CoD but they buy it full-price anyway. I'm sure it WOULD help their sales a lot if only the people who liked it bought it. That lower price tag really would make a huge difference in sales, especially on a new game that's getting its time in the limelight of reviews.
Oh heaven and hell! please dont let this become a reality, my mate just let me borrow both Mass Effect games, and I quite like being able to play them '2nd hand'. I dont wanna have to buy a game for the full price or even whatever price it is, when I could just borrow it. Hell I bought the DLC's for these games and they're only loans, Bioware still get my money just not as much X/
[...] even though the consumers would be up in arms about it at first...they will grow to understand why and that it won't kill them."
Perhaps the game industry could grow to understand why people buy used games, and that they won't kill it?
Honestly what a condescending tone to take with your customers. The gentleman comes across as a tosser, if you'll pardon my French.
People have been buying used books since the invention of printing, and as far as I'm aware the book industry hasn't combusted or gone into crisis mode. Heck, you can freely go out and get books from libraries, and STILL the book industry survives. I'm not going to be made to feel guilty for buying a used copy of a game. If they want my money, they're going to have to earn it - not by restricting my choices.
Okay, someone correct me if I'm wrong but something like that couldn't possibly be legal could it? Wouldn't it voilate some kind of anti-trust laws or some such? I mean by doing something like that you're literally saying "Okay, this system of buisness is no longer valid in our eyes and we're going out of our way to cut a legitimate buisness section out of our market so we can make more money". Can you picture if Exxon Mobil suddenly decided that they were going to make their fuel compatible with American made cars only (somehow, this is hypothetical)? Anti-trust up the fucking ass! Or if power companies felt like home generators were cutting into their profits so they changed all their wiring in new buildings to be incompatible with home generators? I mean, come on here!
Here's a better way to make faster cash without waiting for the sales. Fire your entire PR dept. You're wasting the money keeping them on the payroll if you override everything they do. I'm sure that alone will get you a new *insert whatever luxury they think they don't have yet.*
I stand with a lot of other posters when I say that if the next generation of consoles do this, I will simply not buy any new consoles until they abolish the practice. Between Fallout: NV and its DLC, Alpha Protocol, ME 1-3, Dragon Age I and II, Skyrim, Arkham City, and Kingdoms of Amalur, I have no business buying new games for the near future anyway.
thehorror2: I stand with a lot of other posters when I say that if the next generation of consoles do this, I will simply not buy any new consoles until they abolish the practice. Between Fallout: NV and its DLC, Alpha Protocol, ME 1-3, Dragon Age I and II, Skyrim, Arkham City, and Kingdoms of Amalur, I have no business buying new games for the near future anyway.
Until they end their old online service (your current system) and you lose all your DLC. Damn... that would suck. Can't even play old stuff for nostalgia's sake then.
Fuck the developers. Don't patch anything, release glitchy stuff, sell me products with DLC already included and then make me pay to use it, take away my right to sell a physical object I fucking bought, make more money than ever and still whine about everything.... as I said, fuck the developers. I'm sick of their bitching. The gaming industry has done well in a shit economy, but nobody else has. Assholes.
*edit* If they insist of taking away used games, then I will insist on playable demos.
thehorror2: I stand with a lot of other posters when I say that if the next generation of consoles do this, I will simply not buy any new consoles until they abolish the practice. Between Fallout: NV and its DLC, Alpha Protocol, ME 1-3, Dragon Age I and II, Skyrim, Arkham City, and Kingdoms of Amalur, I have no business buying new games for the near future anyway.
Until they end their old online service (your current system) and you lose all your DLC. Damn... that would suck. Can't even play old stuff for nostalgia's sake then.
Fuck the developers. Don't patch anything, release glitchy stuff, sell me products with DLC already included and then make me pay to use it, take away my right to sell a physical object I fucking bought, make more money than ever and still whine about everything.... as I said, fuck the developers. I'm sick of their bitching. The gaming industry has done well in a shit economy, but nobody else has. Assholes.
*edit* If they insist of taking away used games, then I will insist on playable demos.
Not sure which games you're talking about, but at least with the Xbox, I haven't needed to be online to do anything but buy the DLC. Not quite sure why Microsoft is so comparatively merciful with the audience that objectively lets them get away with the most BS, but I'm not complaining.
Grey Carter: "People often don't understand the cost that goes into creating these huge experiences that we put on the shelves for only $60.
"Only $60"?
As i said in several other threads, banning used games will make them dissapear from existance as soon as it's publishers don't think they are profitable enough anymore. You won't be able to play old games you missed and forced to play new games as they come out.
Not to mention that if games are tied to a console you might have to buy them agaion if it ever breaks and you didn't have a possibility to backup the data.
MoNKeyYy: Okay, someone correct me if I'm wrong but something like that couldn't possibly be legal could it? Wouldn't it voilate some kind of anti-trust laws or some such? I mean by doing something like that you're literally saying "Okay, this system of buisness is no longer valid in our eyes and we're going out of our way to cut a legitimate buisness section out of our market so we can make more money". Can you picture if Exxon Mobil suddenly decided that they were going to make their fuel compatible with American made cars only (somehow, this is hypothetical)? Anti-trust up the fucking ass! Or if power companies felt like home generators were cutting into their profits so they changed all their wiring in new buildings to be incompatible with home generators? I mean, come on here!
Its entirely legal for a company to restrict something on a private system. Consoles are not PCs or homes, they are owned entirely by corporations. Basically, it becomes entirely private and they can do whatever they wish. Especially since they are going to do what STEAM has been doing.
To ban used games from a console is blatant DRM. To all the PC gamers out there who dont see a problem with this then this is exactly the same as DRM. The publishers are telling us what we can and cant do with what we have bought. Everyone should be up in arms about this the same way all gamers should be against DRM. If they hurt us on one platform then they are ready to do the same to all others.
[...] even though the consumers would be up in arms about it at first...they will grow to understand why and that it won't kill them."
Perhaps the game industry could grow to understand why people buy used games, and that they won't kill it?
Honestly what a condescending tone to take with your customers. The gentleman comes across as a tosser, if you'll pardon my French.
People have been buying used books since the invention of printing, and as far as I'm aware the book industry hasn't combusted or gone into crisis mode. Heck, you can freely go out and get books from libraries, and STILL the book industry survives. I'm not going to be made to feel guilty for buying a used copy of a game. If they want my money, they're going to have to earn it - not by restricting my choices.
I think what he really meant was that the consumers are totally powerless and that they will have to accept it as they cant do anything about it. What a bastard. Mocking those who pay his wages.
I haven't seen the likes of Toyota or GM give a damn about second-hand sales for their products, so why all the fuss when we're already been screwed over to the point where we pay £40 for a "License" to have a go on their stuff, essentially making the likes of Activision and Ubisoft look like rather paranoid pimps that will drive themselves bankrupt the way they're going.
"People often don't understand the cost that goes into creating these huge experiences that we put on the shelves for only $60. They also don't seem to realize how much they are hurting us when they buy a used game and how pirating a copy is just plain stealing. Maybe something as simple as educating them could help solve the problem..."
Let me educate you for a moment, people who buy used games generally aren't doing it just because they can, they're doing it because they can't afford the game at full price. Taking away the ability for these people to buy the game used won't suddenly increase your sales, no, it'd just mean they would not be playing the game at all.
Let me put it simply: You take away used games and poorer gamers suddenly can't play at all, this in turn reduces the number of fans for your games which means less people talking about them which means less money for you. On top of this by the fact these people can't play the game you won't be building a positive relationship with them and when in the future they do have money they will be less likely to buy your games since they have no reason to think of you any differently from other developers.
And im just going to pretend you didn't insinuate pirates and used game buyers are one and the same; used game buyers are far more respectable and would no doubt buy your game at a lower price directly from you if they were given the chance.
ablac: To ban used games from a console is blatant DRM. To all the PC gamers out there who dont see a problem with this then this is exactly the same as DRM. The publishers are telling us what we can and cant do with what we have bought. Everyone should be up in arms about this the same way all gamers should be against DRM. If they hurt us on one platform then they are ready to do the same to all others.
do the same to all the others?
its been this way on the pc for ages, and if you would take ten seconds to look its ended up with cheaper prices for us :)
"People often don't understand the cost that goes into creating these huge experiences that we put on the shelves for only $60. They also don't seem to realize how much they are hurting us when they buy a used game and how pirating a copy is just plain stealing. Maybe something as simple as educating them could help solve the problem..."
Let me educate you for a moment, people who buy used games generally aren't doing it just because they can, they're doing it because they can't afford the game at full price. Taking away the ability for these people to buy the game used won't suddenly increase your sales, no, it'd just mean they would not be playing the game at all.
Let me put it simply: You take away used games and poorer gamers suddenly can't play at all, this in turn reduces the number of fans for your games which means less people talking about them which means less money for you. On top of this by the fact these people can't play the game you won't be building a positive relationship with them and when in the future they do have money they will be less likely to buy your games since they have no reason to think of you any differently from other developers.
And im just going to pretend you didn't insinuate pirates and used game buyers are one and the same; used game buyers are far more respectable and would no doubt buy your game at a lower price directly from you if they were given the chance.
Your missing the opportunity without used games holding up prices, the industry can trend towards tiered prices that acutally drop over time based on real sales data. The only difference instead of used they will have to buy old. Which is fine. Thats the trade off.
I was going to buy Saints Row 3 but I keep hearing about it as being short, and charging for multiple dlc's.
So I didn't buy it... even with the promise of Saints Row 2 included for PS3 version.
I mostly buy my games new (although I don't consider used game markets to be evil). and its funny how I always end up not buying games from game developers who are severely against used games.
Erm, can I ask as I am still unsure how this weird idea would function. For example when a friend comes round to mine to show me a "fantastic game" that he has just bought but is outside of my own genres, I take it that it won't work and the company will have lost my interest and money. This is quite poignant for me as Saint's Row the Third was a game that this happened with, I hadn't played them in the past and thought them silly from what I heard but by playing it with a friend I bought both it and the second Saint's Row. Way to shoot yourself in the foot guys :P
MoNKeyYy: Okay, someone correct me if I'm wrong but something like that couldn't possibly be legal could it? Wouldn't it voilate some kind of anti-trust laws or some such? I mean by doing something like that you're literally saying "Okay, this system of buisness is no longer valid in our eyes and we're going out of our way to cut a legitimate buisness section out of our market so we can make more money". Can you picture if Exxon Mobil suddenly decided that they were going to make their fuel compatible with American made cars only (somehow, this is hypothetical)? Anti-trust up the fucking ass! Or if power companies felt like home generators were cutting into their profits so they changed all their wiring in new buildings to be incompatible with home generators? I mean, come on here!
Its entirely legal for a company to restrict something on a private system. Consoles are not PCs or homes, they are owned entirely by corporations. Basically, it becomes entirely private and they can do whatever they wish. Especially since they are going to do what STEAM has been doing.
I understand that the development of the console and it's operating standards are entirely within the hands of the corporation that develops it, but this seems anti-competative. A corperation can't just say "Your legitimate buisness is cutting into my legitimate buisness's potential profit so I'm going to ensure that operating your legitimate buisness is completely impossible." Microsoft got nailed with anti-trust shit in the 90s when they wouldn't allow non-Microsoft programs to run on Windows operating systems so I guess my biggest question would be how is this any different?
mysecondlife: I was going to buy Saints Row 3 but I keep hearing about it as being short, and charging for multiple dlc's.
So I didn't buy it... even with the promise of Saints Row 2 included for PS3 version.
I mostly buy my games new (although I don't consider used game markets to be evil). and its funny how I always end up not buying games from game developers who are severely against used games.
Something to think about, Volition...
And this makes you a better person. The problem is that not very many people really give a shit. I can't remember who's column it was here, but they weer pointing out how small the number of people who actually care is. They basically said "Okay. Take the population. Now take the people who have ever played a video game. Now take the people who play regularly. Now take the people who play more complex games than Angry Birds. Now take those who can name a video game publisher. Now take those who can name a developer. Now take those who play more than just lots of COD. Now take those who read a website like this." There's who gives a shit. And as long as there's so few of us who give a shit, developers and publishers will never give a shit about us.
MoNKeyYy: Okay, someone correct me if I'm wrong but something like that couldn't possibly be legal could it? Wouldn't it voilate some kind of anti-trust laws or some such? I mean by doing something like that you're literally saying "Okay, this system of buisness is no longer valid in our eyes and we're going out of our way to cut a legitimate buisness section out of our market so we can make more money". Can you picture if Exxon Mobil suddenly decided that they were going to make their fuel compatible with American made cars only (somehow, this is hypothetical)? Anti-trust up the fucking ass! Or if power companies felt like home generators were cutting into their profits so they changed all their wiring in new buildings to be incompatible with home generators? I mean, come on here!
Its entirely legal for a company to restrict something on a private system. Consoles are not PCs or homes, they are owned entirely by corporations. Basically, it becomes entirely private and they can do whatever they wish. Especially since they are going to do what STEAM has been doing.
I understand that the development of the console and it's operating standards are entirely within the hands of the corporation that develops it, but this seems anti-competative. A corperation can't just say "Your legitimate buisness is cutting into my legitimate buisness's potential profit so I'm going to ensure that operating your legitimate buisness is completely impossible." Microsoft got nailed with anti-trust shit in the 90s when they wouldn't allow non-Microsoft programs to run on Windows operating systems so I guess my biggest question would be how is this any different?
well they restricted the consoles since the 90s. The console tax is so high it literally killed any sort of business trying to get into console gaming. The only actual traffic in console gaming is going out, not in.
Apple has been doing the same, but I think the platform can be restrictive as long as other alternatives exist.
ablac: To ban used games from a console is blatant DRM. To all the PC gamers out there who dont see a problem with this then this is exactly the same as DRM. The publishers are telling us what we can and cant do with what we have bought. Everyone should be up in arms about this the same way all gamers should be against DRM. If they hurt us on one platform then they are ready to do the same to all others.
do the same to all the others?
its been this way on the pc for ages, and if you would take ten seconds to look its ended up with cheaper prices for us :)
That could be the result of numerous other factors. Piracy means they must lower the price to encourage people to buy, digital distribution is much cheaper than physical distribution and this can reflect in the pricing, Maybe due to increased competition with other companies who dont produce for the pc publishers put things out cheaper. These are a few of the reasons that could reflect that price difference. Also im looking right now at the price of games only just released such as kingdoms of amalur and the darkness 2 and they are £35 only £5 cheaper than they are on console. Its a similar story on steam for many games though ill admit pricing is very different for quite a number of games which would cost the same on console. To claim reduced prices are a direct result of not being able to trade games in and buy used without good evidence presented isnt really a very convincing argument though i see where you are coming from if you could give some evidence id be more obliged to agree with you. I wonder why pc games cant be traded anyway. Is it due to the nature of pc games or is it a different standard set by the publishers. I would like someone to tell me why this is the case if they can.
However what i was saying wasnt specifically about used games it was more about the fact that there is now DRM on consoles if this rumour is true and what i was saying was that console gamers should have a problem with DRM even if it doesnt affect them because if we dont move against it quickly then it will eventually happen to all of us. Im also interested in how used game sales not existing resuled in cheaper prices since id think a competitor such as used game sales would quickly drive down the price of a game rather than keep it high.
ablac: To ban used games from a console is blatant DRM. To all the PC gamers out there who dont see a problem with this then this is exactly the same as DRM. The publishers are telling us what we can and cant do with what we have bought. Everyone should be up in arms about this the same way all gamers should be against DRM. If they hurt us on one platform then they are ready to do the same to all others.
do the same to all the others?
its been this way on the pc for ages, and if you would take ten seconds to look its ended up with cheaper prices for us :)
That could be the result of numerous other factors. Piracy means they must lower the price to encourage people to buy, digital distribution is much cheaper than physical distribution and this can reflect in the pricing, Maybe due to increased competition with other companies who dont produce for the pc publishers put things out cheaper. These are a few of the reasons that could reflect that price difference. Also im looking right now at the price of games only just released such as kingdoms of amalur and the darkness 2 and they are £35 only £5 cheaper than they are on console. Its a similar story on steam for many games though ill admit pricing is very different for quite a number of games which would cost the same on console. To claim reduced prices are a direct result of not being able to trade games in and buy used without good evidence presented isnt really a very convincing argument though i see where you are coming from if you could give some evidence id be more obliged to agree with you. I wonder why pc games cant be traded anyway. Is it due to the nature of pc games or is it a different standard set by the publishers. I would like someone to tell me why this is the case if they can.
However what i was saying wasnt specifically about used games it was more about the fact that there is now DRM on consoles if this rumour is true and what i was saying was that console gamers should have a problem with DRM even if it doesnt affect them because if we dont move against it quickly then it will eventually happen to all of us. Im also interested in how used game sales not existing resuled in cheaper prices since id think a competitor such as used game sales would quickly drive down the price of a game rather than keep it high.
steam 2 second ago kingdoms of amular and darkness 2 29.99. (amular was 26.99 on pre order) thats not peanuts savings there thats 25% of the price.
And games can't be resold due to the data having being installed thus your not giving up ownership of it.
Im looking at the two markets objectively and the one with digital downloads (which see's all of the money go to the devs) has tiered pricing, prices that drop and massive sales on a regular basis (this isn't just steam, d2d greenman and go all do it not to mention the humble bundles) whereas the one with a used market prices stay rigid for much longer.
(excluding anomalies like modern warfare which sell like the dickens and probably deserve a different rating like AAA* or something)
The advantage of direct downloads you will be able to see how much your selling at a particular price point and adjust as the rate drops, not to mention you can randomly have sales to generate more interest in your title (or even free play weekends).
All this is impossible on the retail method (due to bad sales data), not to mention the fact that the retailers are part of the reason the prices are kept up so high.
Its all one issue. Its why music has embraced downloading, and why tv and film is soon going to, the pc community has readily adopted this new way of doing things.
I take issue with this part. Modern Warfare 3 broke every sales record known to man in like the first week it was out. I doubt they could have doubled that figure, so dropping the price to $30 would probably have lost them a considerable amount of profit.
On the same token, the fact that they made such a ridiculous amount of money shortly after release shows that enough people have the money to buy games new at the current price that it doesn't really matter.
It's not like the PC has a used game market either.