Volition Dev Vs. Pre-Owned Games

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" Maybe something as simple as educating them could help solve the problem..."

Yeah that's a good idea, do that. Or just make the industry anti-consumer and horribly inconvenient, that'll work.

I don't even buy used, but I do lend my games to my one friend who leaves near me that has the same interest in games as I do. And going from "here you go" to well, anything else is just terrible.

....So all sony would need to do is not have the same Anti-used games hardware and every single xbox player in the world would get a PS3.....including me, it would kill the xbox completely.

Guys like this Dev really need to stop underestimating consumers. the other thing that got my ire was "these huge experiences for only 60 bucks" only?????????? the games industry will flat out collapse leaving only indie developers left standing, if this moronic mindset continues, used games exist get over it, make better games, and dont try to strip mine every gamers pocket.

Zen Toombs:

Grey Carter:
Jameson Durall says things

...YOU MONSTER

Well, that's just my opinion. I'm sure that all of the Escapist will rise up against me to support Durall and his hatred of used games. :p

I have no problem with a company trying to make new games more valuable than used games (with the inclusion of single-use codes, for instance), to encourage people to buy new -- while still allowing them to buy used for the lower price. This is entirely different.

Even as someone who understands the "used game problem," I think this is a ridiculous measure. And, thankfully, I think it's going to end up costing them more than they find acceptable.

The only way it'll work is if the game is registered online. Fine. You'll see a lot of people stop going online, especially in single-player games. I'd wager most multiplayer die-hards buy new anyway, because buying used runs the risk of getting a game that now has "ghost town" servers. You want to be in the initial wave. So no gain or loss with those folks. But others? Fewer people using the console online means that everyone has fewer allies or opponents in any multiplayer mode. People aren't going to buy those games for long.

Then someone creates the magical key-generator. Suddenly, you buy a game, go to enter the code, and you find it's already registered online. Sure, they can work out who actually has the game... after several weeks. Not worth it, for most customers, who will not be returning. (This story can be re-told using the hack of your choice.)

Customer service nightmares, as someone has to deal with a dead machine. Buy a new machine, link it to the old account... and hope that everything works okay so that you can still play your old games on a new machine. Speaking of which -- you bring a game over to a friend's house, it's not re-sale. But suddenly you have to bring the whole console, too? Or do the account juggle?

Basically, it'll be a nightmare on all fronts for the publishers and/or console companies. Very little return on dollars spent, so they'll abandon the idea once that sinks in.

If they want to stop used sales, they need look no further than Steam. Digital distribution, when it works, means there is no disk to re-sell. If you tie that to the convenience of a system like Steam, you win twice.

I am ready for this industry to crash and to start again. This generation has brought some amazing games but it has also brought out the worst in developers, publishers and console manufacturers. Should have seen it coming when they announced $60 games and DLC but how could we know it would get this bad?

This industry is in a downward spiral so sooner or later they will crash and burn, they won't change course because they are too big for that now.

...okay you know what, fuck you guy. you know how used games are great for the industry? without lowered used games, no one and i mean NO ONE would noticed the damned saints row series because no one wanted to try another GTA clone. i only bought it because it was incredibly cheap due to being a used copy and it was a pretty good game. people are willing to try something new when its cheaper and you can find an under appreciated gem in the bargain bin. if the xbox 720 or whatever its called stops used copies of the game from being played then hey guess what? the Next gen consoles will die faster then atari jaguar CD

Grey Carter:

Durall admits that such a system would have its faults. Game rental companies, for example, would be rendered moot, but that could be solved by Microsoft implementing its own rental service.

Yeah because killing competition is always a good thing.

Seriously these guys have their heads so far up their asses (Talking about Volition btw, not Grey Carter) everything they do or say is Shit.

So um...anyone else see the Wii-U (hopefully a name change too) in a whole new light now?

FelixG:
"I dont like you so I am going to give gamestop all of my money by buying your game used for 5 dollars less! I am still going to play your game, but I am making sure you dont get any money for it and someone else does!"
And people wonder why developers think used gamers are as bad or worse than pirates...

A good game is a good game, doesn't mean I have to support the company that made it if they're doing things that piss me off.
They STILL loose a sale from me, and I get to play the game I want - with a few bucks off the top.
It's a win-win from my view and a lose-lose from theirs (I don't buy Ubisoft DLC either).

ANY dev/pub who thinks used game sales are as bad, or worse, than piracy are pants on retarded.
Period.

Out of curiosity, where did the rumor of the next Xbox not playing used games come from? Unless they are building it to be a pc then you would be able to play used games.

Someone's butthurt over Saints 3 resales it seems.

"Personally I think this would be a fantastic change for our business and even though the consumers would be up in arms about it at first...they will grow to understand why and that it won't kill them."

Translation: We see a pile of money we have absolutely no right to, but we wont rest until someone finds a way for us to get a hand in it since the $10 we make per resale on online passes isn't enough.

That guy is an arrogant fuck.

If they try and develop anti used game consoles. They had better start letting me return my games for a full refund if I'm dissatisfied.

Aaaaand they lost me as a customer.

I remember people talking about how the online pass is THQ's idea, and Volition was not complicit.

Now we've got one of them saying that it doesn't go far enough.

Screw that. I'm not buying any of your games anymore, guys.

i wish it was like steam - buy a game, saves stored online and you can download the game anytime as much as you want. but also so that would be cross platform, like, buy for xbox play on ps3 and pc!

If the devs start clamoring for it, it might happen. If it happens, then I foresee the whole console industry collapsing in on itself. As it is now, the next generation only promises to look slightly better and be far more expensive for it. Losing used games will kill it for sure.

kiri2tsubasa:
Out of curiosity, where did the rumor of the next Xbox not playing used games come from? Unless they are building it to be a pc then you would be able to play used games.

The rumour started for the Playsation 3, and I'm assuming it's just a rehash of that one.

Zachary Amaranth:

kiri2tsubasa:
Out of curiosity, where did the rumor of the next Xbox not playing used games come from? Unless they are building it to be a pc then you would be able to play used games.

The rumour started for the Playsation 3, and I'm assuming it's just a rehash of that one.

The rumor started for the PS3 (which successfully played games from Blockbuster)? Cripes, people will believe anything it seems.

Dear Mr. Durrall,

I don't know if you realize this, but gamers are not fond of being bullied. So when you tell us all to shut up and fork over a "mere" $60 for your "huge experiences", like Saints Row The Third, a game that was much smaller then it's predecessor so you could milk more out of DLC, we don't like it.

True, buying games new won't kill us, but buying no games won't kill us either. But buying no games might kill you.

To put it in a more direct way, I turn to my good friend, Shizune:

image

Thank you, Shizune.

I would ONLY support this if Steam were to be on the next gen consoles.

Someone needs to find this fella a bag, a big bag. Then they fill it with dicks and then tell the whiny cunt in the above interview to choke on said bag and all of it's contents. The gaming industry is posting record profits as it is and locking individual games to a single console would ultimately hurt the gaming industry far far more than it would help assuming M$ would even be stupid enough to try to implement a system for doing it.

Um... no. No, that's a stupid idea. Ignoring all the other crap it does, the biggest thing is putting more inconvenience on the paying customers, y'know the people who actually do buy a game new. I don't want to have to input code upon code upon code just to play a new game.
The point of a console is that you can just put it in and start playing, once you take that away all that's left is a subpar PC.

And all of this is coming from a guy who buys most of his games new anyway. I do that because I like to show developers that they don't need to back their consumers into a corner to get the sales they want... more than they have already. Once they start doing that though, that's the end of my good will.

I do not enjoy having my choice to trade or resell property that I purchased. We need to fight for laws that back consumer rights and make companies who treat goods like services that they have the right to screw with.

I only tolerate steam because when I spend 200 bucks on games that I can't resell I get permanent ownership of them at 90% off retail in bundles. For the cost of 3 retail store games I find myself buying publisher catalogs etc.

All this anti used games stuff will used for is to keep games at 59.99 stripped of content, annualized, bullshit dlc practices, store exclusives, day one dlc, passes, codes and all the other shit that makes me hate my hobby outside of indie devs who would blow me just to get their game in my hands.

If the next console generation is going in this the direction, than I'll stick with my current ones. I'm also really glad I'm upgrading my PC. Not to jump on the bandwagon or anything, but you really cannot beat Steam. Portal and TF2 for free, DOW2 and its expansions for less than $10 a piece, direct downloads...

So go ahead and infest the next Xbox and PS with DRM and activation codes, I won't be buying them.

If this was to happen, the retailers would most likely increase the price of games to make up for lost sales (because used games make up most of their sales). This would in turn make less people buy their stuff, which would probably make the retailers go out of business.

So basically, consoles would become obsolete, and steam will rein supreme.

All hail Valve!

kiri2tsubasa:

The rumor started for the PS3 (which successfully played games from Blockbuster)? Cripes, people will believe anything it seems.

The rumour predates the launch of the PS3.

Hi there Volition!

So nice to see you, and welcome to my list.

We hope you enjoy your stay, and if not you can always complain to Ubisoft over there in the corner.

"In the end, I fully believe that we have to do something about these issues or our industry is going to fall apart," he continues. "People often don't understand the cost that goes into creating these huge experiences that we put on the shelves for only $60. They also don't seem to realize how much they are hurting us when they buy a used game and how pirating a copy is just plain stealing. Maybe something as simple as educating them could help solve the problem..."

Screw you whatever your name is Mr. Volition. After a player has bought a copy of your game, it is THEIRS to do with as they please. It is NOT yours. The book, movie and record industry have nothing to say about this. I will grant you the piracy point, but you are NOT entitled to a single penny from a used copy of a game.

If they implement this on consoles in the future, most people will simply play on PC, pirate it, or not play it. Except the CoD weirdos who would buy anything Activision made regardless of what they had to agree to, or even what they were getting.

Your industry is not falling apart from used game sales. It wasn't in the 80s, the 90s, the 00s or now. So screw you lying git and stop whining. Go ahead and use online passes, I won't buy your game. Restrict how I use my paid for content. I won't buy your game.

You want to stop second hand trading? Stop selling your games at 40 each on online stores. The reason games are so expensive is to put up with the funds that selling them at a shop costs. If you are selling them online, that money is not going to them, it's going entirely to you. It's too expensive.

Zachary Amaranth:

kiri2tsubasa:

The rumor started for the PS3 (which successfully played games from Blockbuster)? Cripes, people will believe anything it seems.

The rumour predates the launch of the PS3.

In that case I am not placing any weight on that rumor until Microsoft actually announces the next Xbox. Only then will that rumor be dashed or confirmed. If only everyone took a "Wait and See" policy.

Negatempest:
So um...anyone else see the Wii-U (hopefully a name change too) in a whole new light now?

Well, Nintendo already locks digital downloads to a single console. For example, why can't I play Super Mario 64 on my Wii in the bedroom? I own both Wii's but the game was bought on the Wii in the living room and so it is locked there and aside from sending both Wii's to Nintendo, there is no way to transfer the games. The 360 is almost as bad, you can only activate your games on one console at a time and you can only switch consoles once per year. So just like with the Wii, you can't share games if you have two 360's. The PS3 is great though, it allows you to share games with 2 PS3's (used to be 5).

What they are talking about doing is treating disc based games the same way. Probably by using an activation code and then having the game tied to your account which is then tied to a console.

So no, I don't see the WiiU in a better light.

Oh, yeah and I also heard a rumor that each X720 will come with a free lap dance with a happy ending. Geez. I don't believe this because, I'd like to think Microsoft is not that stupid (although let's face it they probably are).

However I have to address some of the points he made.

"Personally I think this would be a fantastic change for our business and even though the consumers would be up in arms about it at first...they will grow to understand why and that it won't kill them."

Yeah I see how it would benefit you. All of the perks and none of the hate that making that decision would generate. While it wouldn't kill most of us consumers; only limit our ability to play a wide range of mediocre games (kind of games Volition Inc. excels at making) it could very much hurt you (and variety of other studios). Release dates would become very important since many people wouldn't be able afford Saints Row 3 in the same month MW3, Uncharted 3 and Skyrim were released. Developers would also need to provide a reasonable alternative to make us feel like we're getting a good deal. With no trade-ins you'd be fighting for every consumer dollar, which could be a double edged sword. On one side it could force devs to come up with new and interesting concepts to grab our attention, but it could also lead to the influx of samey old boor-fests that are guaranteed to sell. Anyway, I'm looking waaaay too much into this. It's an unconfirmed rumor after all.

"People often don't understand the cost that goes into creating these huge experiences that we put on the shelves for only $60. They also don't seem to realize how much they are hurting us when they buy a used game and how pirating a copy is just plain stealing. Maybe something as simple as educating them could help solve the problem..."

So on top of calling us ignorant, you'll also claim that $60 is not enough money? Considering what? The amount of work studio put into it? Amount of game time we could get from it? Number on your paycheck ? Fuck you buddy. Saints Row 3 shipped 3,8 mil copies according to Wikipedia, and with dozens upon dozens of DLC you keep releasing I doubt used games will put you out of work anytime soon (and I know how pathetic this argument is).
What's your excuse for disappointing sales figures of Red Faction: Armageddon? Game hit the bottom of the bargain bin only two weeks after it was released.

Hell, I'm probably giving this way more attention than it deserves. As @SupahGamuh said:
Another day, another asshole with shitty ideas we can scoff at..

"DISCLAIMER: Opinion does not represent that of my employer :)"
Yes, but it reflects poorly on him. People will associate "Saints Row 3 dev" with Volition Inc. and it will cost you a sale or two with certain type of gamers being a spiteful bunch they are. Opinions are a dangerous thing to have this day and age.

Grey Carter:
Personally, judging by Games For Windows Live, I don't think Microsoft could organize a pissup in a brewery.

Hah, nicely saidput :D

PS: I'm also ashamed at the lack of solidarity my fellow gamers and Escapists showed in their posts on this and other topics that reported on this news.

Now I can sorta kinda maybe see where game devs are coming from. When 50 users can benefit from 1 sale that would admittedly chink into their bottom line but guess what...that's something you have to live with. Honestly h9ow stupid can you be. No used games. LOL, any system they put in place would be hack seven ways and the how to's posted on youtube 4 hours after console release.

Then there's as others have stated, the implied and inalienable choice consumers have of just not buying that console. Or if all the new consoles take that retarded choice... just skipping that console generation and torpedoing millions of R&D investment by the companies.

Listen console companies; don't %$#@! with your consumers. Just because some are willing to buy the same game year after year with a different number tacked on to the end doesn't mean they'll let you get awa with that. We're gamers, you need us waaaay more than we need you guys after all, at the worst case scenario... we can get new hobbies. Remember that MS, Sony and Nintendo....even you PC devs. We can get new hobbies we can essentially shut your entire industry down just by deciding we'd rather play touch football or take up woodworking instead of opening our wallets to you. Be warned.

kiri2tsubasa:

Zachary Amaranth:

kiri2tsubasa:

The rumor started for the PS3 (which successfully played games from Blockbuster)? Cripes, people will believe anything it seems.

The rumour predates the launch of the PS3.

In that case I am not placing any weight on that rumor until Microsoft actually announces the next Xbox. Only then will that rumor be dashed or confirmed. If only everyone took a "Wait and See" policy.

..or ya know, you could object NOW before it's implemented. After it's implemented it's harder to get rid of.

If it was never true, what have you lost? If it is true then you would have helped to prevent a disaster. I mean really, it takes no more effort to say "I disapprove and won't buy the console if they do this" than to say "I will withhold my opinion until it's already done and possibly too late to undo it".

Im just going to go join all the other PC gamers in this thread in saying that this really isn't unexpected. We haven't had a serious pre-owned market in over a decade yet somehow PC Gaming is still alive and kicking. Out of curiosity, to all those that say they'll stop playing if this gets implimented on a console, what will you do if all consoles from now on come with these measures (as the one that impliments it will more likely get exclusives so it will probably be all consoles or no consoles)? Your hatred of no pre-owned market means that PC gaming is out so will you just stop gaming all together?

Crono1973:

..or ya know, you could object NOW before it's implemented. After it's implemented it's harder to get rid of.

If it was never true, what have you lost? If it is true then you would have helped to prevent a disaster. I mean really, it takes no more effort to say "I disapprove and won't buy the console if they do this" than to say "I will withhold my opinion until it's already done and possibly too late to undo it".

The opinion is already out there. After all that is said and done Microsoft will do what ever it is doing for the next XBOX. If they are smart they will listen, but at this time little can be done other then say "IF this doesn't allow me to play used games I will not buy it". Once that is done all that you can do is wait and see.

kiri2tsubasa:

In that case I am not placing any weight on that rumor until Microsoft actually announces the next Xbox. Only then will that rumor be dashed or confirmed. If only everyone took a "Wait and See" policy.

Which should be standard policy.

I kind of wonder how many of the people panicking this time were the same people panicking when this was rumoured to be the case for the PS3. Granted, with it being like 7 years old, a number of the people panicking now might actually be too young.

Omegatronacles:
Tell you what, Jameson, the instant a AAA title gets released in Australia with a RRP of "only $60", come talk to me.

Until that day, stop talking shit.

Boom. Dis.

There's more to it then "ship it to gamestop!" Jameson, you rube.

PS: Used products are a market force, you can't destroy a market force, suck it down.

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