BioWare Supports Beleaguered Writer

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Well if she didnt like video games, or video gamers before she sure as hell wont now. Good work guys.

Tanakh:

Andy Chalk:
Why, then?

Yahtzee's column, some featured articles, Yahtzee's vids, lately Jim's vids, some friends i met through here, the comics and to post of forums in my freetime, in that order. I do dislike most of the editorial columnist here, but at least they are fun to talk to :D

I mean, why are you in my thread?

Drago-Morph:

erttheking:

Brad Shepard:
Ok, lets start this off by saying Tali is only able to be romanced with Male Shepard, 2, Now that im thinking about it, Is it a homosexual relationship with an alien of an asexual race? and 3, it did not make it in, so its non canon.

Yes, in the second game, in the third game it has been confirmed that a Femshep can woo her. Also, it means that they wanted it to be a part of the original game, of course they would work it in when they got the chance. Also what's the big deal? This is one of those things that you have to hunt for, they're not shoving it down your throat. You don't like it? Well...it wasn't for you.

Wait, where was it confirmed FemShep can romance Tali in ME3?

You might have to dig a little, but look at this
http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2011/05/15/mass-effect-3-to-include-all-gay-options/

Brad Shepard:
as a Male, who could you be gay with?

Kaiden Alenko, provided you save him instead of Ashley in ME1 (I didn't). Isn't ShepMcDaddyPants & Kaiden a potential sex scene in ME1?

Andy Chalk:

Tanakh:

Andy Chalk:
Why, then?

Yahtzee's column, some featured articles, Yahtzee's vids, lately Jim's vids, some friends i met through here, the comics and to post of forums in my freetime, in that order. I do dislike most of the editorial columnist here, but at least they are fun to talk to :D

I mean, why are you in my thread?

Can't one of you be the bigger man and let it go? This thread has sunk so low already.

Spot1990:
-snip-

Humm, you are right, she does say that she sucks at playing and that that turns her away from videogames, and that she wished she could skip the playing parts. I guess i am just biased against that, i have heard endless times from biologist that they suck at math and that it turns them again from it and that it shouldn't be part of their curriculum... witch is technically true, you can be a bad to decent biologist without math, but you can't be a very good one (or at the very least makes it HIGHLY unlikely). And Bioware games in the lowest difficulty are as hard as wiping your ass, well, assuming you NEVER played videogames i guess they are as hard as climbing a stairs while talking on a phone (ie. unless you have brain damage, motor damage, are a toddler or are absolutely unwilling to do it, its a given that you can)

About her disliking it, granted, it's not explicit but it's implied, lets say you walk into a bar and tell one dude "boy, you sure are the ugliest dumbest MOFO in here", you technically ain't saying he is either dumb or ugly in absolute terms, but you are implying it. I assume a writer can use language decently, even if it's spoken, so when you are asked whats your less favourite thing about your work and you answer "playing the games" I assume you either dislike to play them or you are a nutjob that loves to pay to the IRS, be in traffic jams, all your coworkers and your boss are splendid, have amazing health plan, incredible hours, amazing pay and are a citizen of the united states of nofuckingwere.

Tanakh:

TheKasp:
Yup, shows perfectly how people are capable of taking two quotes and saw them together to put words in the mouth of the woman which she never said.

If you don't understand me: SHE NEVER SAID THAT!

As you can see, this is a reply to Andy's post, which also has stuff SHE NEVER SAID (at least not in her infamous interview), so I assumed we were posting our interpretation to her written words, not a direct quote. Was that unreasonable? If so, why mine is the only unreasonable of the two?

Here is why yours is unreasonable, he is taking the cliff notes of what she said as opposed to you who made shit up, and don't try saying that you both used different words than what was originally used because that is also bullshit, there is a very big difference between using words that mean the same thing and making up something she never intended to, and never did, say.

Marik Bentusi:

TitanAura:
What in the fuck is wrong with you, Internet?

The internet is like the bi-polar co-worker we're required to get along with because (s)he's the boss' kid and we don't want to get fired. You do one little thing wrong that in any way conflicts with their ever-changing mood and judgement day is brought down upon thee.

How does one even think about generalizing a medium that combines people across the globe? What the hell?

1. I'm glad you asked. It's called personification. There is a difference.
2. Lern 2 humor.

Tanakh:
But... roflolz, you CAN'T be serious about videogames being the only narrative form where you have to be "good enough" to watch it unfold. Take an average person that only see summer bluckbusters, put him in his living room to see The Seven Seal or Un chien andalou or Ikiru or Luz Silenciosa (not to mention the really long and really slow ones), it is highly unlikely they watch it whole without a gun to their head, more less with pleasure, and even more that they get it; do that with la recherche du temps perdu, El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quixote de la Mancha, Cicero's Oratioria for books, with atonal music or pre-classic music, with almost any ballet or postmodern "serious" theater. I don't know one narrative form where you don't have to be "good enough" to get it.

Unlikely they'll enjoy it but no one's going to pop up and say "Did you understand that? Give an in depth analysis of character development in the first act. You can't? Ok no more movie for you." They might not get it but there's no actual barrier to seeing the next scene. You might not understand it, but you don't have to pass any test to be allowed watch it. With a movie or book they're might be a section you don't get, just one section, well you can skip it. The same can't be said for videogames.

Tanakh:

Spot1990:
-snip-

Humm, you are right, she does say that she sucks at playing and that that turns her away from videogames, and that she wished she could skip the playing parts. I guess i am just biased against that, i have heard endless times from biologist that they suck at math and that it turns them again from it and that it shouldn't be part of their curriculum... witch is technically true, you can be a bad to decent biologist without math, but you can't be a very good one (or at the very least makes it HIGHLY unlikely). And Bioware games in the lowest difficulty are as hard as wiping your ass, well, assuming you NEVER played videogames i guess they are as hard as climbing a stairs while talking on a phone (ie. unless you have brain damage, motor damage, are a toddler or are absolutely unwilling to do it, its a given that you can)

Ok, go find someone who has never so much as held an xbox controller and get them to play Mass Effect. See just how good they are and just how much fun they're having being killed over and over again. Some of us play because we enjoy the challenge, some just want to see the story unfold. It's really not blasphemy against videogames to prefer one over the other.

About her disliking it, granted, it's not explicit but it's implied, lets say you walk into a bar and tell one dude "boy, you sure are the ugliest dumbest MOFO in here", you technically ain't saying he is either dumb or ugly in absolute terms, but you are implying it. I assume a writer can use language decently, even if it's spoken, so when you are asked whats your less favourite thing about your work and you answer "playing the games" I assume you either dislike to play them or you are a nutjob that loves to pay to the IRS, be in traffic jams, all your coworkers and your boss are splendid, have amazing health plan, incredible hours, amazing pay and are a citizen of the united states of nofuckingwere.

So you'll hold a grudge because that's your interpretation of what she said rather than what she actually said?

Wow some people need to get a fucking job.

IckleMissMayhem:

Brad Shepard:
as a Male, who could you be gay with?

Kaiden Alenko, provided you save him instead of Ashley in ME1 (I didn't). Isn't ShepMcDaddyPants & Kaiden a potential sex scene in ME1?

They are not, Where going to be, but it was cut i believe.

Agente L:
Let's face it. Saying in a interview that she hates the gameplay of the video games (hates the video games overral actually) wasn't the smartest move a person in the industry could've made, even not being an actual developer.

That doesn't excuse people from acting like complete immature bullies. There is never an excuse for that. I don't care if her writing was bad or good. What is important is her devotion to her job, and considering she is still there and her boss is standing up for her, I would say she deserves recognition regardless of her what she enjoys outside of her work.
As far as I am concerned, those people who acted out against her are no better than racists and bigots.

Brad Shepard:
I heard about her new book, how piss poor it is, plus she wrote some really bad parts of DA:O and I just have to say this, the fact that they are adding male homosexuality in the last installment of Shepard's story seems very off if you ask me.

All the same, saw the title of this article, had to grab this.

did you even READ the article?

Jennifer is not even a part of the Mass Effect writing team.

Spot1990:
Unlikely they'll enjoy it but no one's going to pop up and say "Did you understand that? Give an in depth analysis of character development in the first act. You can't? Ok no more movie for you." They might not get it but there's no actual barrier to seeing the next scene. You might not understand it, but you don't have to pass any test to be allowed watch it. With a movie or book they're might be a section you don't get, just one section, well you can skip it. The same can't be said for videogames.

Well, the dude that wants to bypass some part only have to know enough programming, or DL a trainer and pay for it, or use a cheatcode, it's not as he can't access the rest of the game without passing one part.

I what you are saying is that is one case it's impossible and the other can happen, what i am saying is that one case is not impossible (you just need a lot of programming knowledge or to cheat, i know, impressively unlikely) and the other certainly can happen in theory, but in real life it's probably easier to win the lottery or be hit by an killer drone, so... we can dismiss it without affecting the study of the general phenomena; so, in general it is just false that videogames are the only form of storytelling that requires something to access it (even if there could be one or two cases out there in the world where that is not true).

tthor:

Brad Shepard:
I heard about her new book, how piss poor it is, plus she wrote some really bad parts of DA:O and I just have to say this, the fact that they are adding male homosexuality in the last installment of Shepard's story seems very off if you ask me.

All the same, saw the title of this article, had to grab this.

did you even READ the article?

Jennifer is not even a part of the Mass Effect writing team.

Oh look, more comments to this, Joy, The homosexual comment was how they are shoehorning it in to ME3, I know Helper is not on the team, She is on maternity leave.

Agente L:
Let's face it. Saying in a interview that she hates the gameplay of the video games (hates the video games overral actually) wasn't the smartest move a person in the industry could've made, even not being an actual developer.

She never once said that. So you have just lost any credibility you may have had in this thread by the simple fact you don't know the first thing about the topic at hand.

Spot1990:
-snip-

I don't hold a grudge (even if i think those lazy ass biology students are wrong). And she was asked what was the less favourite part of her job, and she answered playing the games, so she doesn't like to play videogames... I don't think that makes her a better or a worse person, but I fail to see how I am reading too much between lines, she just doesn't like that and it's fine.

Again, my issue is that not liking to play videogames and being a head writer at a company that focuses on the writing on videogames are not the best mix, but it's not something to /wrist about either.

Tanakh:

Spot1990:
Unlikely they'll enjoy it but no one's going to pop up and say "Did you understand that? Give an in depth analysis of character development in the first act. You can't? Ok no more movie for you." They might not get it but there's no actual barrier to seeing the next scene. You might not understand it, but you don't have to pass any test to be allowed watch it. With a movie or book they're might be a section you don't get, just one section, well you can skip it. The same can't be said for videogames.

Well, the dude that wants to bypass some part only have to know enough programming, or DL a trainer and pay for it, or use a cheatcode, it's not as he can't access the rest of the game without passing one part.

I what you are saying is that is one case it's impossible and the other can happen, what i am saying is that one case is not impossible (you just need a lot of programming knowledge or to cheat, i know, impressively unlikely) and the other certainly can happen in theory, but in real life it's probably easier to win the lottery or be hit by an killer drone, so... we can dismiss it without affecting the study of the general phenomena; so, in general it is just false that videogames are the only form of storytelling that requires something to access it (even if there could be one or two cases out there in the world where that is not true).

Do cheat codes even exist anymore? And your other two options involve paying or learning some other skill? Can you not tell I meant within the context of the medium? Otherwise you could just go watch a let's play or read the wikipedia entry on it. I meant there is no in built system to skip over anything you get "stuck" on. You can't just say "Ok, I'll just gloss over that. Next."

The other part can happen in theory? Yeah that doesn't really fly unless you can actually come up with a single example. I don't even mean a specific film/book or whatever, I mean some hypothetical system that is built into the medium to prevent you continuing, not just someone acting the bollocks and stealing your book.

EDIT: Also, I'm referring to the medium as a whole. Gaming is the only one with that feature. There is no other medium that does it. Books, music, poetry, film, art, haiku or even dirty limericks, there is no other medium in the world where having to pass some kind of test to get to the next part is an in built part of the medium.

Spot1990:
The other part can happen in theory? Yeah that doesn't really fly unless you can actually come up with a single example.

Of books that can't be read without being deep in the subject? Not even hard, almost every PhD book in every sience and in math can't be read without a lot of knowledge on the subject, you might at most read the symbols, but don't have any idea of what they mean, or read the words without realizing they have a deep contextualized meaning that is not the same as their meaning in natural language.

For a historic example, almost all early cryptography works are religious ones coded so you can't access the content unless you were an initiate.

Warachia:
-snip-

So, i am wrong and are unacceptable and he is right because in your opinion saying that she would like videogames to have a gameplay skip button is better represented by:

"I prefer story to gameplay."

rather than by:

"I prefer that videogames have no gameplay"

Gotcha, that makes sense.

Tanakh:

Spot1990:
-snip-

I don't hold a grudge (even if i think those lazy ass biology students are wrong). And she was asked what was the less favourite part of her job, and she answered playing the games, so she doesn't like to play videogames... I don't think that makes her a better or a worse person, but I fail to see how I am reading too much between lines, she just doesn't like that and it's fine.

Again, my issue is that not liking to play videogames and being a head writer at a company that focuses on the writing on videogames are not the best mix, but it's not something to /wrist about either.

Ha. You remind me of my old theoretical physics professor, he used to love taking digs at the other science departments.

But she doesn't dislike playing games, she dislikes having to play games and not just being able to get the parts of the games she likes (like people who only like the rest can skip the narrative part).

If someone asked me what my least favourite part about studying journalism is I would honestly say it's having to read a bunch of newspapers from beginning to end everyday just to stay abreast of what's going on in the world. Even things I don't care about. I learned what the offside rule in soccer is a week ago and I have to read the sports section every freaking day. That doesn't mean I dislike reading, being informed or educating myself. Besides you'll see Yahtzee himself say that when you have to do something, even if you enjoy it, it can get irritating.

I don't even understand any of this. Even after re-reading the article and reading a few pages of the comments, I still don't get it. I'm sure Bioware pretty much HAS to defend someone they employ because, well, if you didn't, that would not get you good publicity. It seems that some users don't like her because she wrote some parts of games that they didn't like. So...yeah. If you don't like, you don't like it! Sure, hate her if you want, but spamming her on her twitter and the like is NOT how you show what you think of her. As for myself, I don't even know what she did, and I loved Mass Effect and thought Dragon Age Origins was pretty good too.

OniaPL:

Andy Chalk:

Tanakh:
Yahtzee's column, some featured articles, Yahtzee's vids, lately Jim's vids, some friends i met through here, the comics and to post of forums in my freetime, in that order. I do dislike most of the editorial columnist here, but at least they are fun to talk to :D

I mean, why are you in my thread?

Can't one of you be the bigger man and let it go? This thread has sunk so low already.

I second this. Not cool seeing a professional journalist/columnist/whatever steep to their level. As for the poster...meh.

Tanakh:

Spot1990:
The other part can happen in theory? Yeah that doesn't really fly unless you can actually come up with a single example.

Of books that can't be read without being deep in the subject? Not even hard, almost every PhD book in every sience and in math can't be read without a lot of knowledge on the subject, you might at most read the symbols, but don't have any idea of what they mean, or read the words without realizing they have a deep contextualized meaning that is not the same as their meaning in natural language.

For a historic example, almost all early cryptography works are religious ones coded so you can't access the content unless you were an initiate.

As I said to another poster I'm not talking about understanding it, I mean literally "no you can't even look at this". As I said even if I don't understand what's on the page that doesn't stop me from just turning the page, they're is no comparable mechanic built into videogames. In videogames if you don't meet the challenge you can't just move on. You could go through my entire math book and not understand a damn word of it and at the end of it say "What the fuck was that?" With videogames you're not even allowed reach that point. Didn't I say entertainment media anyway? If not, my bad I made my point very poorly it seems.

Coldster:
I'm sure Bioware pretty much HAS to defend someone they employ because, well, if you didn't, that would not get you good publicity.

No, they don't trust me. The fact that he did this shows he thinks she's in the right and is holding that above financial success. Basically most of us who are defending her could take her or leave her as a writer. She has plenty of rabid haters but no rabid fans. He'd please more people by throwing her under a bus. Remember Paul Christoforo? Yeah that's what happens when your employers think you're the one in the wrong. If they felt vitriol was justified Bioware would have thrown her to the wolves by now.

I may not always agree with her or like her writing and I think it was bad idea of her to respond the way she did but the treatment she is getting is pathetic. Some people really need to get a life. If you're going to hate the woman at least hate her for shit she actually said and did, if you have to invent and misrepresent things she said then you're just showing how stupid and misplaced your hate was in first place.

The internet you'll never find a bigger hive of scum and villainy

p.s she doesn't like playing games good thing she writes them and doesn't play them

Spot1990:

Coldster:
I'm sure Bioware pretty much HAS to defend someone they employ because, well, if you didn't, that would not get you good publicity.

No, they don't trust me. The fact that he did this shows he thinks she's in the right and is holding that above financial success. Basically most of us who are defending her could take her or leave her as a writer. She has plenty of rabid haters but no rabid fans. He'd please more people by throwing her under a bus. Remember Paul Christoforo? Yeah that's what happens when your employers think you're the one in the wrong. If they felt vitriol was justified Bioware would have thrown her to the wolves by now.

I had a feeling as soon as I saw you quote me I thought "oh shoot, he's going to bring up Ocean Marketing. XD". Anyways, yes I agree with you, but just like you said, I was trying to say that the "pros" outweighed the "cons" in her situation. They're going to make a decision, and that decision is theirs alone. Though, the internet's reaction could alter it. I don't know, this is just my thoughts on this. Like I said before, I don't understand this very well.

The_root_of_all_evil:

Walk into the middle of the Harry Potter fandom and say "So, Harry Potter's gay then?"

The fanfics do that enough as it is =|

OP: Someone took something out of context and blew it out of proportion? On the internet?! Why that is unheard of!
That is cool that BioWare big-wigs will support her though, I've always found BioWare to be more chill than other developers.
Now I am interested in what Muzyka is a doctor of...

Edit: a medical doctor, well that is interesting.
"I just completed 10+ years of schooling! I am going to make a game company now!" what...

Andy Chalk:

"I get to have both a vagina AND a games industry job, and they can't get either" is a fucking EPIC zing, and I suspect that many of you are angry that she was able to lay it down so easily and effectively with a single line of text.

Now I'm going to preface this by saying that, of course, this mass spammage of Hepler's twitter with abuse is quite terrible, and those involved represent the absolute worst side of the internet (freaky porn not withstanding).

But, that is not an epic zing. I get more sex than you (even when creatively written) is the sort of immature jibe you expect from stereotypical frat boys. Not a professional writer. What's next, a 'your mum' joke?

Also there's the whole 'don't feed the trolls' argument, but I can't imagine it made that much of a difference, they were already being about as scummy as scum can manage so she may as well have flung some faeces back at the screeching monkeys.

Bobic:

Andy Chalk:

"I get to have both a vagina AND a games industry job, and they can't get either" is a fucking EPIC zing, and I suspect that many of you are angry that she was able to lay it down so easily and effectively with a single line of text.

Now I'm going to preface this by saying that, of course, this mass spammage of Hepler's twitter with abuse is quite terrible, and those involved represent the absolute worst side of the internet (freaky porn not withstanding).

But, that is not an epic zing. I get more sex than you (even when creatively written) is the sort of immature jibe you expect from stereotypical frat boys. Not a professional writer. What's next, a 'your mum' joke?

Also there's the whole 'don't feed the trolls' argument, but I can't imagine it made that much of a difference, they were already being about as scummy as scum can manage so she may as well have flung some faeces back at the screeching monkeys.

Oh you're just upset because your mum's so... eh... damn. See it is harder than it looks.

Spot1990:
-snip-

Haha, put a bunch of theoretical scientits on a building for 50-60 years with tenure and students to make (part of) their work and let the soap opera drama flow!! Melrose place and dawsons creeck (or whatever the soap opera is this days) can suck the balls of the sience departments and institutes (for some reason they don't show this fully in Big Bang Theory).

But the parts that she want to skip are the playing parts! If i understand her right she would much rather read a book with the narrative of lets say mass effect than play mass effect, which is up to her, but saying that in a videogame interview when you work for a videogame dev is a very naive move at best.

C'mon mate, you dont dislike reading the sports section every freaking day? Not even a little?

Also, mind posting or PMing a list of which newspapers you read aaaand (beggar with a shotgun) a small description of it? Pleaaaaaaase? Pretty please with sunday on top?

Spot1990:
-snip-

But isn't looking at a book without understanding it even less than watching a let's play? That is at the heart of my argument, if you think that the answer is no, well, I disagree, but your assesment of videogames being the only media that in some games doen't let you even peek after you bought the content would be right.

Spot1990:
Remember Paul Christoforo? Yeah that's what happens when your employers think you're the one in the wrong. If they felt vitriol was justified Bioware would have thrown her to the wolves by now.

Yeah, but the case is very different. Paul was an outsourced individual that picked a fight with penny arcade, this is a person in senior status inside the (arguably) most important section of Bioware wich did herself a disservice with an interview and trolling with the mindless hordes of the net.

In the first case by firing him you at most have to pay a small breach of contract (not even then if your layer is good), in the second you lose face to customers and create a paranoid ambient in a key part of your company. I do think what Bioware did was the best he could have at that moment for the sake of Bioware, i also think it was the right thing to do, but that's tangent.

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