Spartan753:
Why cant Bioware release all their DLCs for free? All DLCs for the Witcher 2 are free, including the upcoming Enhanced Edition. It just strikes me that a relatively small Polish studio can afford to realese it all for free when a big studio like Bioware "have" to charge for it.

As far as I am concerned, Bioware does not give a rats arse about those who buy their game. They only want your money, and they don't care about if you never play it after you buy it either. While i get the impression that CDproject care more about their game and that the people who play it should have the most complete "gaming experience" as possible rather than money.

Still haven't gotten around to Witcher 2, and know nothing about it, its DLC, or its company, but two letters are all you need to know about the difference between some Polish company and Bioware. EA. There ya go, the mystery is solved :-). Back on topic, I'm not a big fan of day one DLC, but flat out calling a company liars with no proof or any kind of solid evidence? I hate that even more. Ignorance is not bliss when it comes from a fan/hater base, it's either headache-inducing stupid or gut busting hilarious. And yes I am aware many people probably said something similar, but I feel the need to keep this going because gosh darn it I just want Zeel to come back!

Daystar Clarion:

CD Projekt gave away all their DLC for free.

You want to know what happened? People still pirated the shit out of Witcher 2.

So what? People would pirate the shit out of the Witcher 2 anyway. And despite restrictive copy protection, people will pirate the shit out of Mass Effect 3. People will likely pirate the shit out of the paid DLC, as well.

It's what pirates do. Which brings me back to "so what?"

Daystar Clarion:

Spartan753:
Why cant Bioware release all their DLCs for free? All DLCs for the Witcher 2 are free, including the upcoming Enhanced Edition. It just strikes me that a relatively small Polish studio can afford to realese it all for free when a big studio like Bioware "have" to charge for it.

As far as I am concerned, Bioware does not give a rats arse about those who buy their game. They only want your money, and they don't care about if you never play it after you buy it either. While i get the impression that CDproject care more about their game and that the people who play it should have the most complete "gaming experience" as possible rather than money.

CD Projekt gave away all their DLC for free.

You want to know what happened? People still pirated the shit out of Witcher 2.

Did they ever get actual stats on Witcher 2 pirated copies? I was under the impression that the devs just guessed the number of pirated copies based on a "for every one game sold, four are pirated" estimate done by some organization somewhere at some point.

And in any case, no one said ethics and profits always go together :P

Daystar Clarion:

dyre:

Daystar Clarion:

CD Projekt gave away all their DLC for free.

You want to know what happened? People still pirated the shit out of Witcher 2.

Did they ever get actual stats on Witcher 2 pirated copies? I was under the impression that the devs just guessed the number of pirated copies based on a "for every one game sold, four are pirated" estimate done by some organization somewhere at some point.

And in any case, no one said ethics and profits always go together :P

I've always just thought it funny that devs will do things to gain good will, and it still means nothing in the grand scheme of things. They'll still get pirated to hell and back.

Eh, well, it's hard to measure the tangible benefit that goodwill towards a company creates, but I'm sure there is some benefit. In other industries, it might save you from costly regulation or from people leaving to purchase from more ethical competitors.

In the gaming industry, I dunno, it might get you some more sales from pirates who buy the occasional game on a steam sale or w/e. As someone who buys only a small portion of the games I play, I did end up happily buying Witcher 2.*

*this statement in no way implies that I pirated the portion of games I didn't buy.

Daystar Clarion:

dyre:

Daystar Clarion:

CD Projekt gave away all their DLC for free.

You want to know what happened? People still pirated the shit out of Witcher 2.

Did they ever get actual stats on Witcher 2 pirated copies? I was under the impression that the devs just guessed the number of pirated copies based on a "for every one game sold, four are pirated" estimate done by some organization somewhere at some point.

And in any case, no one said ethics and profits always go together :P

I've always just thought it funny that devs will do things to gain good will, and it still means nothing in the grand scheme of things. They'll still get pirated to hell and back.

It's not about pirating, it's about how they treat their customers. And the fact that CDproject is still very much against DRM, even though Witcher 2 gets pirated the shit out of, shows that this company really cares about the GAMERS, and not about making the most amount of money exploiting us (like Bioware do).

I refuse to believe that EA is the entire reason behind it. And even if they are, the people who work at Bioware doesn't seem to protest to much to what EA does. Please correct me on the last one if I am wrong. I do want to be wrong.

Daystar Clarion:

Spartan753:

Daystar Clarion:

I've always just thought it funny that devs will do things to gain good will, and it still means nothing in the grand scheme of things. They'll still get pirated to hell and back.

It's not about pirating, it's about how they treat their customers. And the fact that CDproject is still very much against DRM, even though Witcher 2 gets pirated the shit out of, shows that this company really cares about the GAMERS, and not about making the most amount of money exploiting us (like Bioware do).

I refuse to believe that EA is the entire reason behind it. And even if they are, the people who work at Bioware doesn't seem to protest to much to what EA does. Please correct me on the last one if I am wrong. I do want to be wrong.

Oh, I agree with you, and I really like the business practices of devs like CD Projekt. But money makes everything they do possible, and sometimes, charging for DLC is that little extra cash that might make all the difference.

Not this time, though. Even if ME3 didn't have any DLC whatsoever it would be much more profitable than The Witcher 2 could ever dream of.

EA is really milking the cow with this one.

Daystar Clarion:

Spartan753:

Daystar Clarion:

I've always just thought it funny that devs will do things to gain good will, and it still means nothing in the grand scheme of things. They'll still get pirated to hell and back.

It's not about pirating, it's about how they treat their customers. And the fact that CDproject is still very much against DRM, even though Witcher 2 gets pirated the shit out of, shows that this company really cares about the GAMERS, and not about making the most amount of money exploiting us (like Bioware do).

I refuse to believe that EA is the entire reason behind it. And even if they are, the people who work at Bioware doesn't seem to protest to much to what EA does. Please correct me on the last one if I am wrong. I do want to be wrong.

Oh, I agree with you, and I really like the business practices of devs like CD Projekt. But money makes everything they do possible, and sometimes, charging for DLC is that little extra cash that might make all the difference.

I do agree with you there, and I am happy to support some developers who needs money by buying DLCs, but I hardly think Bioware "need" that money. Seems to me like its more of a "we do it because we can". That is an attitude I really dont care for. And what is worse is they try to defend themselves. Cant they just be honest and say that they charge for DLCs because they want to be even richer than they are. I might actually start buying Bioware products again just for the refreshing honesty :P

"Dear Goddy, it appears fairness is dead in the Gaming industry..." This is from a member of a forum I blog for.

"The defence put up by Casey Hudson and Michael Gamble in regards to the "From Dust" Day one DLC is spurious at best. Whether or not it was EA that demanded this story crucial material be discluded from the main game is irrelevant. The fact that Bioware, a well respected developer for over 10 years, can put such an irresistable carrot on a 10 dollar string and attach it to a stick on the gaming communities backs is a dirty business tactic and one that will ultimately come back to damage their reputation even further post Dragon Age 2. Sooner or later, there will be nowhere left to hide for the fleecers and racketeers that now smell the freshly baked pie of ignorance that now wofts from the gaming world.

[Name withheld]"

While I have stated in my other thread that I have already purchased Mass Effect 3 and fully intend to play it, I ultimately have to agree with him, and to add further to his statement, for respected figures at Bioware such as Casey Hudson of all people to come out and toe EA's line is both surprising and saddening. You would never see Gabe Newell come out and seemingly lie in the face of Valves fanbase.

In a perfect world, Bioware and any other cultivator of decent products in the gaming industry would have the financial power to go it alone, but the reality is somewhat different, and it is a circumstance that we will inevitably have to put up with.

That's the point I have been making from day one: No amount of boycotts or forum protests will change the direction of the current. EA will make millions off Mass Effect 3 and will know full well that any minority of gamers that have taken up the sword against their swindling will soon falter and give up, what I like to call the Heart of Wallmart effect.

LastGreatBlasphemer:

animehermit:

Yet no one complained when they did the same thing in ME2. Somebody honestly tell me that Shadow Broker and Arrival aren't important to the overall plot of the franchise.

Played ME1, and ME2. Bought no DLCs. They're not important to the overall plot of the franchise.
Glad to oblige.

Arrival is because it bridges ME2 and 3. I think ME1 had one that was important too.

Kopikatsu:

LastGreatBlasphemer:

animehermit:

Yet no one complained when they did the same thing in ME2. Somebody honestly tell me that Shadow Broker and Arrival aren't important to the overall plot of the franchise.

Played ME1, and ME2. Bought no DLCs. They're not important to the overall plot of the franchise.
Glad to oblige.

Arrival is because it bridges ME2 and 3. I think ME1 had one that was important too.

SHIT!

I just remembered that I haven't played Arrival yet!

*goes off to purchase*

Kopikatsu:

LastGreatBlasphemer:

animehermit:

Yet no one complained when they did the same thing in ME2. Somebody honestly tell me that Shadow Broker and Arrival aren't important to the overall plot of the franchise.

Played ME1, and ME2. Bought no DLCs. They're not important to the overall plot of the franchise.
Glad to oblige.

Arrival is because it bridges ME2 and 3. I think ME1 had one that was important too.

All arrival does is explain why Shepards on Earth, which can just be (and is) easily explained in the first part of ME3.

It's nice filler, but that's the point, it's filler. Kind of like reading the mass effect books/comics to find out how Cerberus got a hold of Shepard's body. It wasn't required that we know all about Liara's adventures getting Shepard to have ME2s opening make sense.

Seems like a valid reason for why the day 1 DLC isn't included in the full retail game, it would be nice if they just gave it away for free when you buy a new copy of the game but I understand why they'd charge for it. If anything the only thing that bothers me about all this controversy is that it spoiled the reveal of the

The posts in this thread from people who are angry about this are hilarious to read. Some of you guys are the most entitled and whiniest people I have ever seen. Spend the $10 and shut the hell up if it matters THAT much to you. This DLC isn't going to break the game if you don't have it.

TopazFusion:
Have we finally slain the mighty beast that is Zeel?

anthony87:
Only The Cool Kids posts amuse me as much but he doesn't seem to post as frequently anymore.

I noticed this too.
Perhaps he's letting his forum health bar recharge a bit.

Nope he'll be back in a few hours, he starts around 6 PM EST and goes until 11 or 12 PST

why is everyone getting so pissed at bioware this is obviously an EA move the bioware had no choice in and really bioware shouldnt be the ones defending it EA should

fatmrbunko:
why is everyone getting so pissed at bioware this is obviously an EA move the bioware had no choice in and really bioware shouldnt be the ones defending it EA should

the dlc is bioware's idea and a damn good one i like the idea of have him for a squadmate i wonder will it be temp or perm. the charging for the dlc is ea greedy bastards but i got the deluxe so i think i get it for free guess spending the extra 20 wasn't a bad idea after all

TopazFusion:
Have we finally slain the mighty beast that is Zeel?

anthony87:
Only The Cool Kids posts amuse me as much but he doesn't seem to post as frequently anymore.

I noticed this too.
Perhaps he's letting his forum health bar recharge a bit.

I think he's seen this thread as a lost cause and doesn't want us to gang up on him anymore. I've spotted him slinging feces in other threads recently.

Seems as though Zeel has finally lost his... zeal (I'm sorry).

The Pinray:

TopazFusion:
Have we finally slain the mighty beast that is Zeel?

anthony87:
Only The Cool Kids posts amuse me as much but he doesn't seem to post as frequently anymore.

I noticed this too.
Perhaps he's letting his forum health bar recharge a bit.

I think he's seen this thread as a lost cause and doesn't want us to gang up on him anymore. I've spotted him slinging feces in other threads recently.

Seems as though Zeel has finally lost his... zeal (I'm sorry).

don't be sorry its a nice touch. i hope he's wrong but since it still over a week away we won't know for sure but he did come across as kind of a pain in the backside. you catch more bees/flys what ever with honey then vinegar

You know if Bioware and EA merely said that Mass Effect 3 was going to cost more because it was so super awesome and they worked so hard on it so now it's $80 but you can get a discount version for less than would it be a big deal.

There's nothing immoral about this, they're just charging more than the average game.

i think what most people are annoyed about here is that you're paying for a product and then getting resold chunks of the same product that have been cut out of the original in the name of profit.

It's like getting sold a house without windows, it's something that you CAN do without but which would make the experience better and that you would expect to be there in the first place.

It's excellent business practice, it'll most certainly make them money but it's so unethical.

animehermit:

Yet no one complained when they did the same thing in ME2. Somebody honestly tell me that Shadow Broker and Arrival aren't important to the overall plot of the franchise.

No offense but Arrival and Lair of the Shadow Broker AREN'T that important.

-The trial in ME3 could have EASILY been explained by "they are putting Shep on trial for working for Cerberus"
-And Liara's "position" of Shadow Broker apparently means NOTHING in the 3rd game, as she seemingly doesn't use it.

cfehunter:
i think what most people are annoyed about here is that you're paying for a product and then getting resold chunks of the same product that have been cut out of the original in the name of profit.

It's like getting sold a house without windows, it's something that you CAN do without but which would make the experience better and that you would expect to be there in the first place.

It's excellent business practice, it'll most certainly make them money but it's so unethical.

The thing is though, it WASN'T cut out.

Its more like being sold a house but then them saying "hey give us X dollars more and we will coat your windows with a damage resistant material" You still have normal windows, you can just pay more to make them harder to break windows.

fatmrbunko:
why is everyone getting so pissed at bioware this is obviously an EA move the bioware had no choice in and really bioware shouldnt be the ones defending it EA should

It was FAR from EA's sole fault.

I find this position of "EA strong armed Bioware and Bioware doesn't like it but is FORCED to do it" kinda funny. Bioware is equally as much to blame as EA, they aren't forced to do it.

Andrewtheeviscerator:

CorkyJester:
Might as well join this thread to give my two cents...
OK well I'm boycotting Mass Effect 3 not because I believe it's the DLC is unfair but because EA is basically trying to use its position to strong arm consumers into buying more products and abusing its position.
BioWare wouldn't make this DLC if they weren't owned by EA. (That is an assumption going off that the most developers... in fact all aren't this abusive of customers.) The argument that they shouldn't release DLC first day is because they spent time instead of developing this game but instead on the DLC. Now even if they say they finished the game then worked on the DLC... Well why isn't the game out before the DLC was finished... why is the programming team working on the DLC when they could be fixing bugs on the "finished product". Well it's not finished if they didn't release it yet now is it? Why haven't they released the "finished product" when it's in their interest to get the most money quickly to reinvest into their company (EA). It is because they want to get more money out of the consumer. Which isn't bad but its damn unethical when they release a finished product with extra content separate that could easily influence the story.
Next main point and here is the big one ORIGEN. Now you must have ORIGEN to play ME3 on PC, essentially they are forced more software down consumer's throats. That is annoying and obvious they want more people to use a horrible online retailer so they can try to get you to by more of their non discounted games that they don't have to share in the retail price as with other competitors aka steam. So they block steam for selling ME3 so they don't have to share sales, when they could of easily let steam sell it for 60 bucks and used an ethical way to get people to try Origen like I don't know charge 55 bucks on Origen. I would totally take that incentive and buy the game, but no its just EA in the end trying to strong arm the market and get as much money out of the consumer as possible and I'm not having any of that. So go ahead and by the game, its your money, but remember when you buy this game EA will get the picture that they can keep pushing its consumers more and more little by little, and I'm not even going to try to guess what's next.

Sorry about spelling or grammar, truly sorry, that is why I'm an Economy major and not English

Well the reason the game doesn't come out before the dlc is finished is because it takes a while for the game to get tested and fixed, then they have a certain time period set out so they can do a marketing campaign for the game to get more people interested and during this time the developers can work on any dlc they have planned for the game, now dlc doesn't take very long to make because most of the time spent in game development is spent creating the engine and the environments and since this is already made it shouldn't take very long for the dlc to be made.

And the origin thing is just downright childish, people just bitch about it because they can't use their precious Steam, we'll guess what Mass Effect 3 is published by EA so I'm pretty sure EA is going to want to have their products sold through their service. Notice how you can only play Counter strike or Left 4 dead 2 (which is published by EA by the way) on Steam, that's because they're made by Valve and they only want their games on their service. Think about this; would you be able to buy a hollister shirt at an abercrombie store, no, you know why, because why should they let abercrombie get a part of their profit from their product when they can sell it through their own store and make full profit. That's just basic business practice, you should know that if your studying economics

Inexperinced poster alert. Points at me not to the person im relying to (I didn't quote properly

reply- I never said it was bad business for EA to do this. They are doing this because it is good business to make money. BUT! What I said was that it was unethical. Just like how I find DRM unethical but livable (different story), back to the point though. Like I said they are forcing people to download software that isn't the game (ORIGEN). When if they would be thinking about happiness or in economics Utos or Utils(units of happiness for the consumer) (Economics is just as much about the consumer as the business, well microeconomics is)they wouldn't force people to do these things, but instead they would provide incentive to allow consumers to do such things. Also they are cutting out opposition in selling their products which then damage the system of classical economics but turn them into essentially a monopoly on the download for this game... Monopolies are bad especially for the consumers.(anouther story)
But also back to another point shirts are not a proper comparison to ME3, because shirts can be extremely similar to each other and you have multiple outlets selling these shirts. When only one company can sell this ME3"shirt" (EA). So the bottom line (all that I'm trying to expain) is EA is just trying to get your and my money, and they don't give a damn about me or you (except for the money of course) so I'm not going to give a damn about their game. Because two can play at this game EA is has started, and me, well I'm going to win it by not buying this game.

Couldn't EA advertised when they were making the "finished product" and not during the DLC production phase. Also it does look fishy that they were trying to keep their mouths shut about this DLC for day 1 announcement (if it wasn't leaked). Why wouldn't they have announced it earlier? Maybe because they were trying to out maneuver the consumer so they could get more money. I doubt they had in mind a fun Surprise party for the consumer for day 1 DLC. They just wanted everyone who bought a "finished game" to buy more content because they are playing off people's emotions of feeling that they aren't playing all the content. aka they want to play off your emotions for profit. Dear God, this sounds like Fox News.

sorry about grammar... again

Also outlet malls are bad because the companies can make shoddier products since their own products aren't compared directly in their own store by the customer to other brands (but that's not related or is it....)

To me content that significantly enhances the original experience of playing the game should not be additional DLC. DLC should always be "in addition to" in my opinion, not content that is woven through the main game's story arc. This is not something you can download after you've finished the game and play, it's part of the main game.

It shows me that Bioware really doesn't think much of their own product. If you can add and subtract portions of the main story arc and still present it as a full product, then it must not be a very intricate story.

Congradulations people, you just broke the 1000 post milestone

LJJ:
To me content that significantly enhances the original experience of playing the game should not be additional DLC. DLC should always be "in addition to" in my opinion, not content that is woven through the main game's story arc. This is not something you can download after you've finished the game and play, it's part of the main game.

It shows me that Bioware really doesn't think much of their own product. If you can add and subtract portions of the main story arc and still present it as a full product, then it must not be a very intricate story.

Yes well here's the thing, if you go back through the rest of Mass Effect and erased everything connected to one character, say Thane or Tali, would it still be a complete story? Yes, yes it would, a slightly less enjoyable story, but a complete story nonetheless.

LJJ:
To me content that significantly enhances the original experience of playing the game should not be additional DLC. DLC should always be "in addition to" in my opinion, not content that is woven through the main game's story arc. This is not something you can download after you've finished the game and play, it's part of the main game.

It shows me that Bioware really doesn't think much of their own product. If you can add and subtract portions of the main story arc and still present it as a full product, then it must not be a very intricate story.

were do people keep getting this "important to the main story" argument?

The prothean ISN'T important, he is a SOLIDER, not a scientists, he doesn't know the vast mysteries of Porthean tech, he is a military grunt.

Also who says you CANt start it after the main game is done? no one.

animehermit:

UsefulPlayer 1:
I don't really understand how anyone can suggest that DLC is not ripping you off. $10? Well is that gonna give me 1/6 of the game? Because I paid 60 for that.

I'm not claiming entitlement and all that but they're pricing $10 just for one squad mate. And of course it's the mystic alien race so you feel like you're playing the crippled game if you don't buy it.

That's basically what it is, play the crippled version for normal price or pay alot more for the DLC.

I'd buy the crippled version every day of the week. At the end of the day prothean=/=$10. That is shitty content and I hoped better from a great company.

It's not just the squad member. You get a bunch of other stuff too. You get alternate appearance packs for every squad member as well as a complete mission on Eden Prime.

$10 is not that high of a price to ask, I can get a hamburger to $10, does that mean my hamburger has to have at least 1/6th of the enjoyment of ME3?

I'm comparing ME3 game content to ME3 game content.

$10 isn't a high price, but it is if your paying for jack-shit. If they broke the game into pieces and priced it at what you apparently think is a good buy, then I guess we all should be paying well above $200 for a video game.

I understand that they are just trying to make money by milking their fanbase. It's a business. I'm just saying maybe we should demand better content for what we are paying for by not indulging them in their money grubbing ways.

Just because we are fans doesn't mean we're idiots.

Edit: I noticed alot of people saying that this wasn't that important or that person could have been erased and the game would have been fine, story arc intact.

That makes me think every one forgot how ME2 went. The whole game was about squadmates and their missions. There were only a hand full of missions that actually progressed the main story arc. I could describe the main story in about three lines.

Did I miss something? Are people being forced to buy this game? and then the DLC? Dang it, when are the Bioware/EA police coming to get me to force me against my will to spend $60!