BioWare Defends Mass Effect 3 Launch-Day DLC

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erttheking:
Zeel won't be back until the game comes out, but when he does I have a gut feeling he's going to be more brutal than ever. There's good news though, he's worked himself into a corner, if he buys the game and criticizes it, he compromised his ideals and gave money to EA, but if he doesn't buy it, he can't properly criticize it. He could pirate the game I suppose, but if he does he'll be perma banned from this site if he admits it. Yeah, this guy isn't exactly Patton.

At least the mods finally suspended him. I thought they were turning a bit blind for not seeing all the insults he has been throwing for the past couple of days.

anthony87:

Xangba:
This thread has created some of the best Mass Effect related pics/captions I've seen. I love it! Anyway I suppose it's all been said, and Zeel is gone, which is sad because I wanted to ask his/her proof that the Prothean is not in the game without DLC. My favorite thing I've seen on here is "burden of proof is on the accuser" so Zeed's accusations are groundless without proof that the Prothean is not in the game at all without DLC. Anyway, this has certainly been entertaining.

If you had asked him that question the response would've been along the lines of:

"THE LEAKS! THE LEAKS IN NOVMEMBER MENTIONED A PROTHEAN AND BECAUSE THE DLC HAS A PROTHEAN THAT MEANS THEY REMOVED IT FROM THE GAME BECAUSE I SAID SO! YOU'RE STUPID! ADMIT IT! ADMIT IT!ADMIT IT!ADMIT IT!ADMIT IT!ADMIT IT!ADMIT IT!ADMIT IT!!!!"

Or something like that. Seriously though, many people asked him for his proof and he just kept harping on about that damn plot leak.

He actually used the words admit it in one of his posts. He said, and I quote "admit it admit it admit it admit it."

anthony87:
Zeel actually wrote about us in his blog!

I'm so happy!

Zeel has a blog? OK, I totally need to check that out! Can you give me a link?

JamesStone:

anthony87:
Zeel actually wrote about us in his blog!

I'm so happy!

Zeel has a blog? OK, I totally need to check that out! Can you give me a link?

http://xkingxzeel.blogspot.co.nz/?zx=7f911fabaf86c089

Page 22 was the greatest page ever.

God, he wrote about us in his blog, brings tears to my ears. No greater honour.

Daystar Clarion:

animehermit:
So it looks like Zeel only got a 14 day suspension. Only 14 days mods? Really?

Don't worry, he'll be back in time to tell us how bad ME3 is, and how stupid we all are.

He'll have one more dance before the permaban.

If it isn't a duet with EternalNothingness I am going to be so disappointed.

Richardplex:

Daystar Clarion:

animehermit:
So it looks like Zeel only got a 14 day suspension. Only 14 days mods? Really?

Don't worry, he'll be back in time to tell us how bad ME3 is, and how stupid we all are.

He'll have one more dance before the permaban.

If it isn't a duet with EternalNothingness I am going to be so disappointed.

It will be a battle for the ages, so epic in it's scale, that this world and all other possible worlds will be torn asunder, the very fabric of time itself will collapse, and all shall reside in a dark oblivion.

Richardplex:

Daystar Clarion:

animehermit:
So it looks like Zeel only got a 14 day suspension. Only 14 days mods? Really?

Don't worry, he'll be back in time to tell us how bad ME3 is, and how stupid we all are.

He'll have one more dance before the permaban.

If it isn't a duet with EternalNothingness I am going to be so disappointed.

Let's make it go out with a bang and make it a 3 some combo with Danyal

Ohh man, ive been reading Zeel's blog

He has gotten banned from like 8 different Ragnarok Online private Server's forums and he doesn't seem to get why calling the GM of the forums a

should get him banned.

Why are people still raging about this? I am more upset about Bioware's announcement about the Arrival- like DLC that would let you meet a friendly Reaper that would join your cause. That breaks the lore so badly... Bioware's really going too far.

I just wish that Dragon Age 3 will be decent.

OniaPL:
Why are people still raging about this? I am more upset about Bioware's announcement about the Arrival- like DLC that would let you meet a friendly Reaper that would join your cause. That breaks the lore so badly... Bioware's really going too far.

I just wish that Dragon Age 3 will be decent.

I applaud your link.

OniaPL:
Why are people still raging about this? I am more upset about Bioware's announcement about the Arrival- like DLC that would let you meet a friendly Reaper that would join your cause. That breaks the lore so badly... Bioware's really going too far.

I just wish that Dragon Age 3 will be decent.

Well played.

D Moness:

Richardplex:

Daystar Clarion:

Don't worry, he'll be back in time to tell us how bad ME3 is, and how stupid we all are.

He'll have one more dance before the permaban.

If it isn't a duet with EternalNothingness I am going to be so disappointed.

Let's make it go out with a bang and make it a 3 some combo with Danyal

I'm afraid I don't know him. The religion and politics threads I imagine to be this thread all the time, only with less ME subbed pictures that make me laugh. Probably a wrong opinion, but I stay the hell away from there.

Daystar Clarion:

Richardplex:

Daystar Clarion:

Don't worry, he'll be back in time to tell us how bad ME3 is, and how stupid we all are.

He'll have one more dance before the permaban.

If it isn't a duet with EternalNothingness I am going to be so disappointed.

It will be a battle for the ages, so epic in it's scale, that this world and all other possible worlds will be torn asunder, the very fabric of time itself will collapse, and all shall reside in a dark oblivion.

I assume we shall be part of the battle, all badly dressed as batman, Gotham City Imposters style?

even when he's not here we're still having fun i have to give him props for that

Richardplex:
I assume we shall be part of the battle, all badly dressed as batman, Gotham City Imposters style?

Pfft, my outfit is the real deal, my mum made it especially for just such an occasion.

I guess you didn't see my previous post and don't know exactly where I stand on these whole thing. Don't blame you really - this thread is more than a thousand posts deep...
But let me try to clarify a few things, with the risk of repeating myself:

Zachary Amaranth:

Keep in mind, the reason this discussion started was someone saying that no story content was good, and backing that up. That means that, for the intents and purposes of my prior comment, it doesn't matter if it's Day 1 DLC or not.

Some people in the thread are saying that the DLC story is good, not me. The thread is about Bioware justifying the From Ashes DLC. I don't know if the content is good or bad as I haven't seen it.

Zachary Amaranth:
"Held" is such an iffy term.

It sure is. It is completely subjective and a matter of opinion. That's the reason some people are pissed about it and some don't. But when the content is about gameplay (good or bad), it does not take a master degree in psychology to foresee that some people will be upset about it.

Zachary Amaranth:

This is bonus content for the people who paid extra for a special edition. The reason you can buy it is so you don't lose out if you didn't buy the special edition.

The reason you can buy it is for EA to make money. If they were worried that I didn't lose content, they would release it for free. I know "it costs money to develop", but Zaheed also cost money and the extended edition of The Witcher 2 also costs money, both were free.

If EA is trying to be nice they are very bad at it. The gameplay content shouldn't be part of the collector's edition. I said it before: CE is about collectibles (keychains, fluffy armor, etc), not gameplay. Putting gameplay in the CE is great to promote it and terrible to build good will with costumers.

I do not think I deserve the DLC content for free. It is their game and EA can do whatever they want with it. The sex analogy wasn't judgmental but YOU seem to think that anyone who goes for sex on the first day is a slut, I did not suggest such thing: there are people that go for it and there are people that do not - the point is that, whichever the case, it is still sex, meaning: EA is still after your money with DLC, in this case they tried to sell it to us earlier than they used to - some were ok with it, some don't. If enough people are OK with it they will probably try to push it a little harder in the future (you gotta love sex analogies).

There is such a thing as a social contract in every economic relationship. There are a lot of things that consumers expect both explicitly and implicitly every time we reach for our wallets. That's the reason why that same content offered in different circumstances wouldn't start such a ruckus.

Zachary Amaranth:

How would you feel if this really was limited edition content? If the only way to get the content was to be one of the pre-orderers of the Collector's Edition? And since it's already sold out, tough luck if you want the bonus content.
Seriously, how is that better? It's certainly less of a cash grab, so logically, it should be an improvement.

I never questioned the decision to make it available for the public since the CE is sold out. I questioned the decision to put it on the CE to begin with. Not because I think I'm entitled to anything, mind you, but because I think it is just cash grab and they could be smarter about this. Look at this thread and all the irrational arguments been thrown willy nilly, look at all the pre-orders cancelled talk (even if they are not real). EA was coming from a bad situation with the whole Dragon Age 2 thing, do you really thing the smarter thing to do is go to the easy cash strategy?

Well, maybe this will pay off in terms of money for them, but I really think that a more friendly approach would have been even better, both in short and long term.

In any case, I guess that every fan has the right to be angry about it, post in the forums to their hearts content and not buying the game or the DLC - change rarely comes from this, but when it does it is very nice.
That said, the discussion with Zeel is a whole different, parallel story, that I'm not interested to be part of.

pfft i am the one and only BATMAN

I for one would like to see Zeel and The Cool Kid have a conversation.

It'd be like the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object.

Daystar Clarion:

Richardplex:
I assume we shall be part of the battle, all badly dressed as batman, Gotham City Imposters style?

Pfft, my outfit is the real deal, my mum made it especially for just such an occasion.

What was this occasion? "Just in case 2 infamous insane people join powers and try and destroy the world/internet/reason, I made you a batman costume so you can get sidetracked by riddler trophies"? I wish my mum was that cool. She just gave me a bunch a junk and told me I could be anything I wanted. So by day I wear a box and by night I wear a bin-bag. True story.

Richardplex:

Daystar Clarion:

Richardplex:
I assume we shall be part of the battle, all badly dressed as batman, Gotham City Imposters style?

Pfft, my outfit is the real deal, my mum made it especially for just such an occasion.

What was this occasion? "Just in case 2 infamous insane people join powers and try and destroy the world/internet/reason, I made you a batman costume so you can get sidetracked by riddler trophies"? I wish my mum was that cool. She just gave me a bunch a junk and told me I could be anything I wanted. So by day I wear a box and by night I wear a bin-bag. True story.

That's about right :D

My mum's a classy lady.

anthony87:
I for one would like to see Zeel and The Cool Kid have a conversation.

It'd be like the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object.

But if they were to meet it might cause............. INSTRUMENTALITY

image

Sandytimeman:

I know I'm going to sound very hipster on this...but I really enjoy not buying AAA titles anymore. They just nickel and dime us more, they become part of these heartless ginormous publishers like EA or Activision. Better to buy Indie and save yourself the heart ache of getting fucked on DLC.

Not all AAA is that bad. Take Skyrim for instance, it's been out a bit over 3 months and has had a free texture pack DLC and a free CK release, absolutely no paid DLC created before release, no in-game bonuses to collectors editions or preorders or anything. If you bought the game, you got the full game. No exceptions.

Basically what this is going to come down to sometime next week is basically what happened with the multiplayer. "OMGNOES NO MULTIPLAYER BAD EVIL BIOWARE DEVIL SATAN FAIL". then they played it "Hey, you know, it's not that bad." Probably about the same as what's going to happen with this DLC

anthony87:
I for one would like to see Zeel and The Cool Kid have a conversation.

It'd be like the unstoppable force meeting the immovable object.

Lol they would probably agree with each other.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0vrJ-y2zM

This guy can explain this much better than anyone here. I agree with him entirely, simply because he's 100% right. I would've been fine with this as long as the DLC was entirely aesthetic, but it's not, and the game hasn't even been released yet, also, the price of the DLC is 1/5, maybe less of the full game, so it should contain that much imo.

Hey you know if this was released a month after release everyone would be fine with it. But for some reason because it was released at launch everyone is in an uproar. You can't afford it right now then don't buy it right now wait a while.

HalfBakedCheeto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0vrJ-y2zM

This guy can explain this much better than anyone here. I agree with him entirely, simply because he's 100% right. I would've been fine with this as long as the DLC was entirely aesthetic, but it's not, and the game hasn't even been released yet, also, the price of the DLC is 1/5, maybe less of the full game, so it should contain that much imo.

The thing is that TotalBiscut's video has been torn to shreds time and time again.

He is wrong, almost 100% so.

1300 posts Jesus H christ. People, you do realize that after I post this we only need around 40 more posts to get this thread on the hottest thread of the year list and then it will NEVER die...I probably didn't help just now. I need to talk about something on topic now....uh...if you hate the DLC so much then just don't buy it, it has around just as much importance as Lair of the Shadow broker, and why does it being developed alongside the game make it bad?

Released 2 months after full game = acceptable

Released at launch = unforgivable

I don't follow.

Also I like TotalBiscuit but he's not infallible.

erttheking:
1300 posts Jesus H christ. People, you do realize that after I post this we only need around 40 more posts to get this thread on the hottest thread of the year list and then it will NEVER die...I probably didn't help just now. Uh...if you hate the DLC so much then just don't buy it, it has around just as much importance as Lair of the Shadow broker, and why does it being developed alongside the game make it bad?

Released 2 months after full game = acceptable

Released at launch = unforgivable

I don't follow.

I do like the cut of your jib.

Also people are just dumb really. They feel because its a day one DLC they are being forced to pay more for the game already and that's just unacceptable. The entire thing about content being cut away from the game is just bunk.

HalfBakedCheeto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0vrJ-y2zM

This guy can explain this much better than anyone here. I agree with him entirely, simply because he's 100% right. I would've been fine with this as long as the DLC was entirely aesthetic, but it's not, and the game hasn't even been released yet, also, the price of the DLC is 1/5, maybe less of the full game, so it should contain that much imo.

I love totalbiscuit, but he's wrong here, and he continues to be wrong while he defends his position.

This has to do with the way DLC is being developed by Bioware. One of the last stage of game development is certification, which can take months to do and doesn't really require that much more than a skeleton crew to operate. What Bioware does is, is work on DLC during the long certification process. This DLC is easier to produce, doesn't need to go through certification or manufacturing, it also takes less time to bug-fix. He views that work done before the game launches should be free, as if Bioware is cutting off a part of the game and then selling it back to us. This isn't true, this content is a bonus, it's not vital to the plot of the game and is at best an interesting side story.

Whether or not you think it's worth the money is entirely up to you, but $10 is not that expensive.

SajuukKhar:

HalfBakedCheeto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0vrJ-y2zM

This guy can explain this much better than anyone here. I agree with him entirely, simply because he's 100% right. I would've been fine with this as long as the DLC was entirely aesthetic, but it's not, and the game hasn't even been released yet, also, the price of the DLC is 1/5, maybe less of the full game, so it should contain that much imo.

The thing is that TotalBiscut's video has been torn to shreds time and time again.

He is wrong, almost 100% so.

I find it ironic that the people who are okay with buying the DLC are "sheeple" or whatever according to Zeel. But then a few of the people who are against the DLC have basically been saying:

"But....butbutbut....TOTALBISCUIT SAID!!!"

And apparently they're free thinkers with their own ideas and whatnot.

Irony, such a wonderful thing to behold.

A sight more beautiful, there is not.

There's....nothing wrong with this. Hell, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with Day One DLC, honestly.

Why? Let's explain with a simple shift in paradigm:

If the DLC for this character had come out three months after the game's release, would this still be a problem for you? If not, then you're whining about absolutely nothing. Bioware could easily have developed it during the testing and marketing phase, and then chosen to delay the release of that DLC for a few months (had the leak not occurred)....and if they had, you wouldn't be bellyaching about it right now. You'd think nothing of it, hell, you wouldn't have even known it happened. That's what's fundamentally wrong with people claiming that Day One DLC is "teh evulz": it revolves around a preconception that gamers are entitled to have access to everything on the day of release, right then and there, regardless of how much you pay. But you're not. You're entitled to whatever the company decides is the "fair" amount. Whatever they decide is part of the "full game experience". You don't get to make that decision, they do because it's their product.

Don't like it? Don't buy it. Mind, I'm not saying it's good business practice. I agree that it's better when a dev team provides as much content to the gamer as possible, but you're not entitled to every single thing they choose to make with their development time. You're entitled to what they decide to put in the box and sell to you. You can't go to a restaurant and demand extra food served with your meal for free, they are going to charge you for any extras you get added to the order. And they could easily withhold items from you without your knowledge and sell you a lesser product, but that doesn't matter because it's their product and they decide what to sell you. You can't get pissy when you keep buying a product KNOWING that it doesn't contain what you want. Either vote with your wallet (by not buying it at all), or shut up.

SajuukKhar:

The thing is that TotalBiscut's video has been torn to shreds time and time again.

He is wrong, almost 100% so.

Most notably by this:

image

He even tried to refute it, but only addressed it's cursory elements, not how the content gets made.

CriticKitten:
There's....nothing wrong with this. Hell, there's nothing fundamentally wrong with Day One DLC, honestly.

Why? Let's explain with a simple shift in paradigm:

If the DLC for this character had come out three months after the game's release, would this still be a problem for you? If not, then you're whining about absolutely nothing. Bioware could easily have developed it during the testing and marketing phase, and then chosen to delay the release of that DLC for a few months (had the leak not occurred)....and if they had, you wouldn't be bellyaching about it right now. You'd think nothing of it, hell, you wouldn't have even known it happened. That's what's fundamentally wrong with people claiming that Day One DLC is "teh evulz": it revolves around a preconception that gamers are entitled to have access to everything on the day of release, right then and there, regardless of how much you pay. But you're not. You're entitled to whatever the company decides is the "fair" amount. Whatever they decide is part of the "full game experience". You don't get to make that decision, they do because it's their product.

Don't like it? Don't buy it. Mind, I'm not saying it's good business practice. I agree that it's better when a dev team provides as much content to the gamer as possible, but you're not entitled to every single thing they choose to make with their development time. You're entitled to what they decide to put in the box and sell to you. You can't go to a restaurant and demand extra food served with your meal for free, they are going to charge you for any extras you get added to the order. And they could easily withhold items from you without your knowledge and sell you a lesser product, but that doesn't matter because it's their product and they decide what to sell you. You can't get pissy when you keep buying a product KNOWING that it doesn't contain what you want. Either vote with your wallet (by not buying it at all), or shut up.

image

Wow, almost 40 pages for a DLC that looks totally crap? I'm just relieved that Prothy is optional and not part of the "real" game.

My biggest problem with this is.. the construction of this kind of DLC in the first place is damaging to the franchise as a whole.

Zaeed and Kasumi.. would you really consider them a part of the canon of Mass Effect? They have no connection to anyone else but themselves and are not integrated into the plot as a whole. As a matter of fact, that's probably why ME2 was just a character recruitment simulator, because the game was designed around independent characters that could be dropped out of the plot at will.

This is in stark contrast to ME1, where every crew member was important or became important in the grand scheme of things. You don't have any "Ashley and Kaiden" moments, you don't have the Wrex standoff at the factory, you don't have the Liara parts where she helped explain your prothean connection, you don't have Tali moments where she carried vital information about corrupt affairs of the villains, you don't have any moments like that in ME2.

That's because ME2 was designed around greed. The entire cast of that game was created around non-interdependent parts so that they could shove DLC in more smoothly. That's why the game has so little of a main plot to it. EA has messed with the story of Mass Effect so that they could make more money and Bioware was forced to develop around this. They did a good job, but it's still sad that they had to work like that and it makes you wonder what could have been. You begin to realize why their top developers and writers keep leaving.

The argument that they would just fire those extra developers without the DLC involved is just ridiculous. That's where expansion packs, much more substantial side stuff come in to play. Bethesda has already gone back on board with this. Or heck, they could always be put on the next game in the franchise or the next franchise entirely. This is EA, they always have another project in line. Heck, working on simple cosmetic stuff is perfectly fine fine with me, but not an entire separate character. That crosses the line.

Don't get me wrong, ME2 is still a great game, but this DLC business is crapping all over us and I don't know how anyone can defend it. EA don't exactly have a good track record with this either, in-fact, I would describe them as despicable human beings who destroy franchises to make a quick buck. No one should trust EA, they have never earned it.

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