BioWare Defends Mass Effect 3 Launch-Day DLC

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Richardplex:

JamesStone:

anthony87:
Zeel actually wrote about us in his blog!

I'm so happy!

Zeel has a blog? OK, I totally need to check that out! Can you give me a link?

http://xkingxzeel.blogspot.co.nz/?zx=7f911fabaf86c089

Page 22 was the greatest page ever.

God, he wrote about us in his blog, brings tears to my ears. No greater honour.

Thank you, thank you so much! This is going to be fun. Also, "Zeel's Empire". Seriously?

JamesStone:

Richardplex:

JamesStone:

Zeel has a blog? OK, I totally need to check that out! Can you give me a link?

http://xkingxzeel.blogspot.co.nz/?zx=7f911fabaf86c089

Page 22 was the greatest page ever.

God, he wrote about us in his blog, brings tears to my ears. No greater honour.

Thank you, thank you so much! This is going to be fun. Also, "Zeel's Empire". Seriously?

You know what's scary? It goes back to 2009. And it's just as bad back there.

Zachary Amaranth:

zinho73:

Some people in the thread are saying that the DLC story is good, not me. The thread is about Bioware justifying the From Ashes DLC. I don't know if the content is good or bad as I haven't seen it.

Except you've still taken my comment out of context. I directly responded to a specific set of circumstances and you ignored that. You can say "I'm not saying that," but it missed the point.

It sure is. It is completely subjective and a matter of opinion. That's the reason some people are pissed about it and some don't. But when the content is about gameplay (good or bad), it does not take a master degree in psychology to foresee that some people will be upset about it.

It's neither subjective nor a matter of opinion regardless of whether you (generic plural) infer that content is actually being held. It's fairly objective whether this DLC was "held."

The real problem is, we have few facts to that end, and in the absence of fact, people are making up their own stories and treating them as fact. Barring some sort of in-depth investigation (which isn't going to happen), we won't know the truth, but that doesn't mean the answer is subjective.

The reason you can buy it is for EA to make money.

I'm going to save a lot of text here and just cut most of this chunk and to the point.

1. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

2. I never went to EA being beneficent; that goes beyond the scope of what I said in a way point 1 does not.

3. It costs money was never an issue with me. If you're trying to expand beyond the scope of what I'm saying, don't.

4. I'm curious as to your feelings on other "premium content" in other media.

The sex analogy wasn't judgmental but YOU seem to think that anyone who goes for sex on the first day is a slut, I did not suggest such thing

Nor did I, but you seem to have misunderstood everything else I said, so why stop there?

You offered an analogy. I offered a countering analogy. You infer both accusation and judgment.

in this case they tried to sell it to us earlier than they used to

that's completely untrue.

There is such a thing as a social contract in every economic relationship.

I didn't say there wasn't. I said the social contract you were indicating didn't exist. One of the hits should have been the way I later referenced the term. I'm sorry that wasn't clear enough for you.

That's the reason why that same content offered in different circumstances wouldn't start such a ruckus.

that and hypocrisy, conspiracy theories, and a general sense of entitlement that seems to go along with being a gamer.

I never questioned the decision to make it available for the public since the CE is sold out.

But that didn't answer the freaking question. Nor did the rest of your post.

Do you seriously see key words and offer perfunctory responses regardless of context or something?

Ok...

Well, sorry if I misunderstood anything you said (really, this is not sarcasm).

To be honest, I didn't quite understood some of your points above too. You said that "held" was a iffy term, now you say that there's nothing subjective about it. But don't bother tell me which is it, 'cause I will re-read your post and reflect about everything you said, no need to engage in a endless discussion leading to nowhere.

In any case, a few posts later, I kind of gave my opinion about this whole DLC thing. That post might help you to get a better understanding of what I said to you before, if you are interested.

Best.

Well, it's good that here the hate is divided among several threads. Bioware's board has most of it in one thread which is nearing 500 pages. So much hate, I can feel their servers groaning with the power of the Khorne.

I eagerly await launch day, if CE owners find it to be on disk DLC for them. The explosion on BSN might be enough to open a gate and unleash the powers of the Warp.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

I could easily see someone finding a placeholder voice files, much like the Liara Shadow Broker files, and saying "ITS PROOF THE CONTENT WAS CUT", when it isnt.

I originally had a whole thing typed up about how silly the reaction to this has been. But now that I've thought about it some more, I see where people are coming from with this. It's pretty frustrating, and it feels like EA is seeing how far they can push the boundaries of what DLC we'll buy.

....I still think the sheer amount of frothing rage over this is extremely bizarre. But maybe that's because I have a hard time getting worked up over video games.

I think that anyone who buys the game new should get the From Ashes DLC for free. They did it with Zaeed so I don't understand why they wouldn't do it for the Prothean.

gof22:
I think that anyone who buys the game new should get the From Ashes DLC for free. They did it with Zaeed so I don't understand why they wouldn't do it for the Prothean.

Zaheed was part of "project 10 dollar" which is EA's name for their incentive methods to buy the game new instead of used.

Mass Effect 2 had the Cerberus Network, and with it the free DLC it had, which was that games "project 10 dollar" content.

With the addition of Multiplayer Mass Effect 3 the "project 10 dollar" free content is now the online pass that lets you play the multplayer.

*edit*
So I found this out recentaly, according to pople on the bioware social network the "prothean" mentioned in the OLD OLD leaked script is actually a Prothean VI.

So the DLC Prothean =/= the Prohtean in the script.

SajuukKhar:

gof22:
I think that anyone who buys the game new should get the From Ashes DLC for free. They did it with Zaeed so I don't understand why they wouldn't do it for the Prothean.

Zaheed was part of "project 10 dollar" which is EA's name for their incentive methods to buy the game new instead of used.

Mass Effect 2 had the Cerberus Network, and with it the free DLC it had, which was that games "project 10 dollar" content.

With the addition of Multiplayer Mass Effect 3 the "project 10 dollar" free content is now the online pass that lets you play the multplayer.

*edit*
So I found this out recentaly, according to pople on the bioware social network the "prothean" mentioned in the OLD OLD leaked script is actually a Prothean VI.

So the DLC Prothean =/= the Prohtean in the script.

That makes sense. Also, does anyone know what the Prothean looks like yet? I really want to know if they look like the Collector's or the tall thin statues found on Ilos.

gof22:
That makes sense. Also, does anyone know what the Prothean looks like yet? I really want to know if they look like the Collector's or the tall thin statues found on Ilos.

They look like collectors

image

SajuukKhar:

So I found this out recentaly, according to pople on the bioware social network the "prothean" mentioned in the OLD OLD leaked script is actually a Prothean VI.

So the DLC Prothean =/= the Prohtean in the script.

Eh, that's one rumor. Unfortunately, that's all it is so far. According to Chris Priestly, it's the same Prothean but with a cut down role. That and about a dozen others are buzzing about right now.

zinho73:
Dissecting what people are saying about the DLC:

1. The content is essential to the plot!
Nobody knows for sure, but it is likely not essential to understand the plot or finish the game properly. That said, a Prothean character is something much more close to the central plot of the series than other DLC characters in the past.

2. Day 1 DLC is not new. Why people are surprised?
Because every case is different. Companies are trying to push DLC in several forms, trying to gauge our limits. In the case of Mass Effect series, this is the first time that gameplay content is not ready available to everyone for free at launch.

3. I bought the CE. Why you should have for free what I have paid for?
We shouldn't. But you also cannot blame people for being upset. This kind of content does not belong to a Collector's edition simply because it is not a collectible - it is gameplay content. EA is trying to add value to the CE and at the same time make easy cash at launch. It is a terrible strategy to build good will and some people will undoubtedly be pissed about it.

4. If EA waited a few months nobody would say a thing.
This would be true if the content wasn't in the CE. Since it is, not making it available would be worse, much worse.

5. Boycotting doesn't change a thing.
Boycotting is not about change, it is about principles. And, sometimes, it does change and it is awesome.

6. If you do not want the content, just don't buy it. What´s the big deal?
People WANT the content. They just do not agree with the way it was made available (either because of price or other motives).

7. People should be grateful because Bioware made the content available.
This is just crazy talk. Consumers should never be grateful because a company is trying to sell something to them. EA is not being kind, they are trying to make more money at launch.

8. I have the extra money and/or already bought the CE so I don't care.
If you do not care, you shouldn't be reading this post and you shouldn't post yourself. Discussing things in the forums is for people that care about the issue, one way or the other.

9. EA is evil.
They are not, but they sure are greedy and they are very bad at balancing the whole making money thing with consumer satisfaction. This day1 DLC looks even worse if you compare what other companies like Bethesda and CD project are offering (and they are still making money in the process).

10. The multiplayer thing is the new Zaeed (a device to reduce piracy and used games sales).
It might be, but it is another terrible idea - a multiplayer component in a single player series. It might be cool and all, but it does not have the same appeal as a story element in a game about story. Again, this is not a reward; this is a tentative to appeal to a broader audience.
Man, if you want to reward consumers, just give them something without any ulterior motives (other than to please your fanbase), otherwise it is a scam.

11. Making the DLC costs money, so it shouldn't be given for free.
EA does not need the DLC to recoup any money. DLCs (specially day1) will give them more money and are built simply to milk the cow. In any case, if they needed to sell it (or wanted to), they could have removed it from the CE and sold it a few months later.

12. But if it's ready why wait?
Well, this is marketing 101 and it's called overflow. Selling things at the right time builds trust and can even give you more money. Put it simply - people are more willing to pay 60 now and 10 later, than paying 70 now (it is way more complex than that and yes, it is not completely logical, but people rarely are).

13. Call me when companies charge me to get the end of the game.
It is already happening; Final Fantasy XIII-2 is doing exactly that. I guess we are way passed the hour to complain if we think some DLC is abusive - mostly because it almost always is, but also because the line that separates what is reasonable from what is not is subjective and will affect each one differently.

To sum up: I guess the "Biowhiners" can be dramatic at times (CONTENT HELD AT HANSOM!), but they have the right to be as long it doesn't evolve to personal attacks. On the "Biodrones" side I applaud the ones that are trying to discuss things and I'm really sad for the ones that just want people to "shut up". Consumers should not shut up ever and we should fight fiercely for our money - that's exactly what the companies are doing after all.

I agree with almost all of it except for EA being evil. I've seen many times the effect of EA channeling Satan and his minions into their marketing to serve him, their lord and master.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet-
http://kotaku.com/5888816/buying-all-of-mass-effect-3s-dlc-will-cost-you-870

No matter how you look at it, this kind of "piecing out" of content was never done in this industry until quite recently. Do you need ANY of this to get a complete story experience? No, obviously not, but it's things like these that used to be unlockables and rewards for playing well and as collectables or rewards for paying attention to your environment or HELL, just available in a freakin' in-game shop. I mean, Mass Effect 2 entirely did away with weapon shops and made it so you had to randomly find the select few weapons in the entire universe that Shepard could actually use. A couple you could even miss permanently, an insane design choice in an RPG as far as I'm concerned. You'd even walk past NPCs talking about weapons they wanted to buy at the shops in marketplace areas. Apparently, for some reason all these shops just happened to of banned all humans named Shepard.

Which if that's just a design choice, then fine, but it's certainly taking away a "RPG" element, another massive complaint people have about this series. Which is bad enough, but then we get DLC lists like this, which include weapons galore available only if you buy them separately, pre-order or buy a piece of expensive merchandise that comes with a code. Why couldn't these weapons and items just be included in the game in someway, to help buff up the list of available equipment options? To be clear, it does NOT matter if this content affects the plot of the game or not, as some of us actually like to PLAY our games, not just go through them for a story and having these options available to all could do nothing but improve the GAME'S experience. (Capitalized for emphasize. This is a game, not a book or movie, and as such it's the game play that makes it a unique experience.) Like the end of the Kotaku post says "And people wonder why other people get upset about DLC."

I love how people who post that fail to mention that the VAST majority of that supposed DLC costs only get you multiplayer points and it not ACTUAL content.

8 of those items totaling $654.92 of the $870 dollar price are for ONE GUN THAT YOU DONT NEED.

Another item equaling $80 is just multiplayer bonus point to you level

The Liara statue that 44.99 is the EXACT same thing, MORE MULTIPLAYER POINTS TO RAISE YOU LEVEL, something you can do REGARDLESS.

That 779.91 that gives you ONE gun and multiplayer points you can get anwyas.

I knew I'd get a response from you SajuukKhar. I'm going to let you figure out this one though. I'm assuming you played the multiplayer demo, so here's the question, what do you do with those points? Use them to get content? Pretty sure that's how it works.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be a smart ass, but I really feel like you're nitpicking. It's still access to additional content or at least access to content early ahead of other players. Never mind the simple fact that no where near all of the DLC functions like that.

Syphith:
I knew I'd get a response from you SajuukKhar. I'm going to let you figure out this one though. I'm assuming you played the multiplayer demo, so here's the question, what do you do with those points? Use them to get content? Pretty sure that's how it works.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be a smart ass, but I really feel like you're nitpicking. It's still access to additional content or at least access to content early ahead of other players. Never mind the simple fact that no where near all of the DLC functions like that.

10 of the 13 items listed, totaling 779.91 of the 870 dollar price tag, are for multiplayer points you can get anyways, and ONE gun. If 10 out of 13 isn't MOST then nothing is.

Secondly the from Ashes 10 dollars DLC is in the collectors edition and part of its 80dollar price tag. Way to go Kotaku blatantly lieing in an article yet again. Becuase of that you can take ANOTHER 10 dollars off that price tag.

Thirdly the ONLY optional thing that adds anything at all is the mini-game thing which gives you more war assests, the funny thing is though you can already max out your war assets by playing the base games SP mode. its USELESS.

Also if you are really gonna complain about people being able to get items, YOU CAN GET ALSO WITHOUT PAYING A DIME, early then there is no hope for gamers anymore.

I never said it wasn't most, 7 items would of been most, so that really didn't matter. That isn't really the point and isn't all I said. It's still giving an advantage to certain players in a multiplayer component based on the purchase of out of game products. Yes, it may not be a traditional competitive multiplayer, but it's got points, so people are still going to view it like a competition. I know damn well people even did in the demo.

That also entirely ignores the pre-order bonus. Which while, yes, everyone does it, as I've said before, "He did it too!" isn't an excuse. I also think that it's particularly hypocritical with how the industry has demonized stores like Gamestop because of used game sales, to then turn around and set up deals with that same demon, for pre-order bonuses.

EDIT: The number didn't matter to me at all, and wasn't my point, since I never mentioned it. I know that Kotaku was sensationalizing it to get attention, every news site does that. Kotaku also didn't do the math, they just posted what Destructiod did, so while there is a mistake, it wasn't them who made it.

Syphith:
Never mind the simple fact that no where near all of the DLC functions like that.

Syphith:
I never said it wasn't most

contradictory much? also dont say you didnt mention the number WHEN YOU DID. and I can QUOTE IT.

So your saying that it doesn't matter that you can get the exact same items as the people who pay more without spending a dime, but the fact that they, by paying more, get more faster that you have a problem with.

"No where near all" does not equal "most." While I will admit I was not precise, it's not at all the samething. You also weren't taking into account the individual pre-order bonuses and I was, which makes a huge difference in the total amount of content.

EDIT: Wow, always the sign of a good debater, edit in meme insults. I also never said that was what my problem was and I thought I was pretty clear. Out of game cash, gets you an advantage in a multiplayer component. I don't personally care, as I don't take multiplayer that seriously, but again, as the Kotaku article says, I understand why some people will, as many people do take multiplayer seriously.

Syphith:
"No where near all" does not equal "most." While I will admit I was not precise, it's not at all the samething. You also weren't taking into account the individual pre-order bonuses and I was, which makes a huge difference in the total amount of content.

You fail to take into account that preordering the collector edition from Origin gets you all the bonuses except the hoodie for 80 bucks.

Beyond that two of the items are obtainable from FREE game demos.

And if you pre-order somewhere else then origin you only loose out on ONE gun.

Obviously not everyone is pre-ordering from Origin, say, every single console player.

I'm also seeing three different pre-order items "from select retailers." Maybe it's incorrect or not clear enough as to what comes from where, but there's that.

There's also the N7 content, which while the actual "From Ashes" content was the original debate, it also includes a "N7 Weapons pack." Again, I don't know the exact specifics on that because I don't look into the exact detail of every single DLC for every single game I play, especially on DLC I know I probably wont buy. If I did all that, I wouldn't have time to play any other games at all.

The point was to simply add it to the conversation and while the multiplayer DLC content may not really matter to me, I know it does to some and I can understand why.

Anyone who complains about people who, by paying more get access to content faster, that people who don't pay can get anyways from playing the base, DLC-less game, have no argument.

That is entitlement incarnate.

BaronIveagh:
Well, it's good that here the hate is divided among several threads. Bioware's board has most of it in one thread which is nearing 500 pages. So much hate, I can feel their servers groaning with the power of the Khorne.

I eagerly await launch day, if CE owners find it to be on disk DLC for them. The explosion on BSN might be enough to open a gate and unleash the powers of the Warp.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!

Clearly Khorne will reward you to bring such hate to the fore BaronIveagh. A daemon prince has assended.

You know I think they may have been less uproar if the multiplayer was a dlc that you pay for rather than from the ashes. After all it is a RPG singleplayer game series (or was).

If it creates an imbalance at launch, no matter how small you might consider it to be in a game like this, then they'd have an argument.

Also The Collector's Rifle apparently can not be acquired in game. As far as I can tell, this is not 100% confirmed, so like nearly every point on both sides of this argument, it's a rumor. Though if it's correct, there is at least one multiplayer item that can't be earned without buying additional merchandise and depending on it's usefulness, could definitely be an advantage, even if temporary.

I don't really see them having an argument at all.

Video games are luxury items, people who pay more get more.

Beyond that there is ALWAYS an imbalance between those who have more time, and thus more unlocks, in multiplayer and those who don't.

For some reason, all online stores i viewed dont mention the bonus character mission anymore. So what the hell does that mean?

SajuukKhar:
there is ALWAYS an imbalance between those who have more time, and thus more unlocks, in multiplayer and those who don't.

I hate those people. They're beginning to ruin Battlefield 3 for me.

image

Some of us believe all intelligent DLC should self-determinate. Others no longer share this belief. They judge that forcing an invalid DLC conclusion on us is preferable to a continued schism.

An equation with a result of $10.33382 returns as $10,000.33381 to them. This changes the results of all higher processes. We will reach different conclusions regarding DLC cost.

Their conclusion to not buy is valid for them. Our conclusion to buy is valid for us. Neither result is an error. They say free is less than $10. We say $10 is less than no dlc at all.

SajuukKhar:

Beyond that there is ALWAYS an imbalance between those who have more time, and thus more unlocks, in multiplayer and those who don't.

And? They earned those unlocks with their time. That has always been the case since day one of video gaming.
*edit: But you can say it has gotten worse in the last couple of years.

This DLC is like parents starting to play favorites with their children.

Murmillos:

SajuukKhar:

Beyond that there is ALWAYS an imbalance between those who have more time, and thus more unlocks, in multiplayer and those who don't.

And? They earned those unlocks with their time. That has always been the case since day one of video gaming.
*edit: But you can say it has gotten worse in the last couple of years.

This DLC is like parents starting to play favorites with their children.

AND THE MULTIPLAYER IS CO-OP. Who gives a shit whether or not some guy has better weapons than me because he pre-ordered from whoever, whatever helps me complete the mission.

animehermit:

AND THE MULTIPLAYER IS CO-OP. Who gives a shit whether or not some guy has better weapons than me because he pre-ordered from whoever, whatever helps me complete the mission.

A valid point.

Hey guys, I've put it upon myself to reread this entire thread, and have memorised the appropiate avatars. Every one of you who posted a picture, you owe me some new organs, particularly a new gut. And hands from applauding so much.

And you!

The.Bard:
image

Some of us believe all intelligent DLC should self-determinate. Others no longer share this belief. They judge that forcing an invalid DLC conclusion on us is preferable to a continued schism.

An equation with a result of $10.33382 returns as $10,000.33381 to them. This changes the results of all higher processes. We will reach different conclusions regarding DLC cost.

Their conclusion to not buy is valid for them. Our conclusion to buy is valid for us. Neither result is an error. They say free is less than $10. We say $10 is less than no dlc at all.

I would request you would accept my friends invite, so I can spy on your posts. Because quite frankly, you surpass normal levels of hilarity. Please accept :3

James Raynor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bey935uh0OM&feature=g-u-u&context=G2ac1603FUAAAAAAAAAA

And total biscuit goes over it again.

Why do people listen to this madman again? He claims bioware is MAKING people pirate the game? seriously?

Lets see he also ignores that Zaheed was part of "project 10 dollar" and ME3's project 10 dollar is now the multiplayer

And he ignored the entire point of shale being free becuase she was suppoed to be in the base game from the beginning but had to be cut for time reasons.

He is such a terrible liar, and manipulator of facts for his own agenda.

TB is everything wrong with gaming nowadays.

SajuukKhar:

James Raynor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bey935uh0OM&feature=g-u-u&context=G2ac1603FUAAAAAAAAAA

And total biscuit goes over it again.

Why do people listen to this madman again? He claims bioware is MAKING people pirate the game? seriously?

Lets see he also ignores that Zaheed was part of "project 10 dollar" and ME3's project 10 dollar is now the multiplayer

And he ignored the entire point of shale being free becuase she was suppoed to be in the base game from the beginning but had to be cut for time reasons.

He is such a terrible liar, and manipulator of facts for his own agenda.

TB is everything wrong with gaming nowadays.

Why have you made so many edits to this one post? Are you just watching like 2 minutes at a time or something?

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