BioWare Defends Mass Effect 3 Launch-Day DLC

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I am against the day 1 dlc practice, but I do find it a lot harder to argue given the points they made. I'm going to reserve my opinion until after I have the game, play through it, and then play through it with the dlc installed. If it really does add just a couple of skins, and a minimalism character who was there before, I'd be ok with it. If it's that this prothean doesn't appear at all before dlc, and is a pretty important character to the plot (like garrus and tali have always been) then that is pretty despicable. Here's hoping he's just a zaeed.

Why can't all the long-term fans that didn't get their hands on a collector's edition also get the DLC..?

Zeel:

Agente L:
What's up with the use of "gamer entitlement" at every bioware thread now?

Everyone that disagree with the way bioware does business now are angry gamers with "gamer entitlement? Is that a new buzzword or what?

Yes. That and "Bioware is telling the truth". I'd sooner bite off my thumb than believe a word that comes out of the Bioware's PR team. Their entire job is lie to the consumer.

That's half the reason you have a PR team. Some people are idiots who think that publishers are somehow better than any other company just because THEY MAKE GAMEZ OMG I LUV GAMEZ, THUS THOSE WHO MAKE THEM ARE AWSUM.

poiuppx:
Zeel's fervor over this has affected the mind of at least one consumer; I now want to buy the game and the DLC. Make of that what you will.

One might say Zeel was overzeelous.

I'm a terrible person for saying that

I'll never understand why people get worked up over this stuff.

It's just mass effect, if you don't like what they are doing don't give them your money.

But then I've not really been all that amped for games lately, so when companies pull silly stuff I just shrug.

cpt blackamar:

poiuppx:
Zeel's fervor over this has affected the mind of at least one consumer; I now want to buy the game and the DLC. Make of that what you will.

One might say Zeel was overzeelous.

I'm a terrible person for saying that

For what it's worth? I laughed.

I havn't finished a single Mass Effect game yet, so I am enjoying this rage with a bowl of popcorns :D

FelixG:

Zeel:

anthony87:

The lines of the DLC couldn't be in the script because production on the DLC hadn't begun until after ME3 was completed.

So basically you have no idea how the prothean interacts in the game. The only thing we know (and not absolutely) is that The prothean squadmate was an idea from early november. That was removed because they wanted to squeeze more money out of guillable fans.

I've asked time and time again for confirmation on relevant dialogue and no one has given me evidence. If you are willing to shout "OMG PROTHEAN STILL IN DA GAME" I WANT TO SEE PROOF OF THAT.
Or shall I put it like this

SHOW
ME
THE
EVIDENCE

I would like to see your evidence that the content was cut out of the game instead of developed after like they said?

If you have no hard evidence you are just a liar and QQing for the sake of making a stink, as from what I can tell your entire argument is based around "WAHHHH I HATE BIOWARE SO THEY MUST BE EVIL AND STEALIN OUR CONTENT!"

To be fair though, I don't exactly have any evidence regarding what I say either. I'm just operating under the assumption that they're not gonna work on the game including the Prothean as long as they did only to remove it from the main game this close to launch.

Personally I'm glad about this. You buy the CE you get the shiney toy Prothean. You pay extra you get extra. You don't pay you don't fucking get it.

Now Bioware has actually done a good thing and made it availible day 1. So you pony up the extra fucking 10 dollars and add it to your 60 dollar game and you pay about the same as a CE and you get ALL the goodies anyways.

SO are people mostly pissed off they have to do an extra step?

I don't know if it's lazy or self entitlement or both :-p

anthony87:

To be fair though, I don't exactly have any evidence regarding what I say either. I'm just operating under the assumption that they're not gonna work on the game including the Prothean as long as they did only to remove it from the main game this close to launch.

Ah, you see, you're being reasonable about it. Some people might not like it. Here's your problem.

cpt blackamar:
I am against the day 1 dlc practice, but I do find it a lot harder to argue given the points they made. I'm going to reserve my opinion until after I have the game, play through it, and then play through it with the dlc installed. If it really does add just a couple of skins, and a minimalism character who was there before, I'd be ok with it. If it's that this prothean doesn't appear at all before dlc, and is a pretty important character to the plot (like garrus and tali have always been) then that is pretty despicable. Here's hoping he's just a zaeed.

I'm guessing that it'll be more like Liara in Mass Effect 2. She's still in the main game, still affects the story and the DLC adds her as a squadmate for couple of missions.

But hey, it's all speculation until it comes out.

poiuppx:

cpt blackamar:

poiuppx:
Zeel's fervor over this has affected the mind of at least one consumer; I now want to buy the game and the DLC. Make of that what you will.

One might say Zeel was overzeelous.

I'm a terrible person for saying that

For what it's worth? I laughed.

Well at least I don't feel too bad for saying it now

anthony87:

FelixG:

Zeel:

So basically you have no idea how the prothean interacts in the game. The only thing we know (and not absolutely) is that The prothean squadmate was an idea from early november. That was removed because they wanted to squeeze more money out of guillable fans.

I've asked time and time again for confirmation on relevant dialogue and no one has given me evidence. If you are willing to shout "OMG PROTHEAN STILL IN DA GAME" I WANT TO SEE PROOF OF THAT.
Or shall I put it like this

SHOW
ME
THE
EVIDENCE

I would like to see your evidence that the content was cut out of the game instead of developed after like they said?

If you have no hard evidence you are just a liar and QQing for the sake of making a stink, as from what I can tell your entire argument is based around "WAHHHH I HATE BIOWARE SO THEY MUST BE EVIL AND STEALIN OUR CONTENT!"

To be fair though, I don't exactly have any evidence regarding what I say either. I'm just operating under the assumption that they're not gonna work on the game including the Prothean as long as they did only to remove it from the main game this close to launch.

Where I come from, people making the accusations are the people who have the burden of proof, Zeel has yet to provide any. It doesn't matter if you lack evidence, it's not you that has to prove anything unless evidence is offered to the contrary.

No. No. No.

No no no no no no no. No no. No no no. No.

No.

If you are 'content complete', and you are still creating content, then you are not 'content complete'. You are spitting out marketing bullshit to try and preserve your reputation with your fans. You have to bug test the DLC before releasing it as well.

This isn't even Project Ten Dollar: It's worse. This is Project Twenty Dollar. This isn't even something that everyone who buys the game new gets. This is something that people who buy the collectors editions get. This is a new, and fantastic, level of bullshit from a company that has already firmly established itself as the leading innovator in bullshit in the modern video games industry. I am stunned.

To be fair, Origin already sealed the deal for me on Mass Effect 3. This does it for the entire franchise: all of it, gone. It is dead to me. Future Origin-free Steam release? No buy. On sale for $5? No buy. iOS game for $1? No buy. Novels, comics, resin figures, art books? No buy. This is the line in the sand. This is a simply unacceptable level of bullshit.

anthony87:

Zeel:

anthony87:

The lines of the DLC couldn't be in the script because production on the DLC hadn't begun until after ME3 was completed.

So basically you have no idea how the prothean interacts in the game. The only thing we know (and not absolutely) is that The prothean squadmate was an idea from early november. That was removed because they wanted to squeeze more money out of guillable fans.

I've asked time and time again for confirmation on relevant dialogue and no one has given me evidence. If you are willing to shout "OMG PROTHEAN STILL IN DA GAME" I WANT TO SEE PROOF OF THAT.
Or shall I put it like this

SHOW
ME
THE
EVIDENCE

Haven't got any. Unfortunately all I've got is speculation until I've got the game. Call it a knee-jerk reaction if you will.

Do you have any evidence that the Prothean HAS in fact been removed from the main game?

Hell, maybe we're both wrong and there's more than one Prothean....which wouldn't surprise me to be honest.

Maybe. the Description suggests the character is something you have to buy. Plus, EA games has done this before.

Either way, if you don't have evidence about your claim please stop saying it. You're adding dishonesty to the argument.

Dear Bioware. I bought a full price pre-release of Skyrim. Probably would have done the same for ME3. Pretending that cut content is "EXTRA". I'm not that stupid.

The pirate version will include all the DLC for one the low price of what I already pay for my internet connection. You tried to screw me so I will return the favour.

shadowform:
No. No. No.

No no no no no no no. No no. No no no. No.

No.

If you are 'content complete', and you are still creating content, then you are not 'content complete'. You are spitting out marketing bullshit to try and preserve your reputation with your fans. You have to bug test the DLC before releasing it as well.

This isn't even Project Ten Dollar: It's worse. This is Project Twenty Dollar. This isn't even something that everyone who buys the game new gets. This is something that people who buy the collectors editions get. This is a new, and fantastic, level of bullshit from a company that has already firmly established itself as the leading innovator in bullshit in the modern video games industry. I am stunned.

To be fair, Origin already sealed the deal for me on Mass Effect 3. This does it for the entire franchise: all of it, gone. It is dead to me. Future Origin-free Steam release? No buy. On sale for $5? No buy. iOS game for $1? No buy. Novels, comics, resin figures, art books? No buy. This is the line in the sand. This is a simply unacceptable level of bullshit.

March forward brave soldier.

I find this game on the streets, IM NOT PICKING IT UP.

They've milked this game so hard. I dont even know if the cow has anything left to give.

Zeel:

anthony87:

Zeel:

So basically you have no idea how the prothean interacts in the game. The only thing we know (and not absolutely) is that The prothean squadmate was an idea from early november. That was removed because they wanted to squeeze more money out of guillable fans.

I've asked time and time again for confirmation on relevant dialogue and no one has given me evidence. If you are willing to shout "OMG PROTHEAN STILL IN DA GAME" I WANT TO SEE PROOF OF THAT.
Or shall I put it like this

SHOW
ME
THE
EVIDENCE

Haven't got any. Unfortunately all I've got is speculation until I've got the game. Call it a knee-jerk reaction if you will.

Do you have any evidence that the Prothean HAS in fact been removed from the main game?

Hell, maybe we're both wrong and there's more than one Prothean....which wouldn't surprise me to be honest.

Maybe. the Description suggests the character is something you have to buy. Plus, EA games has done this before.

Either way, if you don't have evidence about your claim please stop saying it. You're adding dishonesty to the argument.

Very well. My apologies.

............
............
............
............So?

Where's your evidence?

anthony87:

Zeel:

anthony87:

Haven't got any. Unfortunately all I've got is speculation until I've got the game. Call it a knee-jerk reaction if you will.

Do you have any evidence that the Prothean HAS in fact been removed from the main game?

Hell, maybe we're both wrong and there's more than one Prothean....which wouldn't surprise me to be honest.

Maybe. the Description suggests the character is something you have to buy. Plus, EA games has done this before.

Either way, if you don't have evidence about your claim please stop saying it. You're adding dishonesty to the argument.

Very well. My apologies.

............
............
............
............So?

Where's your evidence?

Specify. Which claims do you want evidence of.

Nemo____:
Dear Bioware. I bought a full price pre-release of Skyrim. Probably would have done the same for ME3. Pretending that cut content is "EXTRA". I'm not that stupid.

The pirate version will include all the DLC for one the low price of what I already pay for my internet connection. You tried to screw me so I will return the favour.

Not a fan of pirating, but your heart is in the right place.
Onwards brave.. Squire.

Nemo____:
Dear Bioware. I bought a full price pre-release of Skyrim. Probably would have done the same for ME3. Pretending that cut content is "EXTRA". I'm not that stupid.

The pirate version will include all the DLC for one the low price of what I already pay for my internet connection. You tried to screw me so I will return the favour.

Oh you're trying to justify your blatant theft?

How cute.

Zeel:

anthony87:

Zeel:

Maybe. the Description suggests the character is something you have to buy. Plus, EA games has done this before.

Either way, if you don't have evidence about your claim please stop saying it. You're adding dishonesty to the argument.

Very well. My apologies.

............
............
............
............So?

Where's your evidence?

Specify. Which claims do you want evidence of.

That they've removed the Prothean from the main game only to include it as DLC in order to milk more money out of people.

cpt blackamar:
I am against the day 1 dlc practice, but I do find it a lot harder to argue given the points they made. I'm going to reserve my opinion until after I have the game, play through it, and then play through it with the dlc installed. If it really does add just a couple of skins, and a minimalism character who was there before, I'd be ok with it. If it's that this prothean doesn't appear at all before dlc, and is a pretty important character to the plot (like garrus and tali have always been) then that is pretty despicable. Here's hoping he's just a zaeed.

But if it is just as you feared then they just suckered you out of either money or the gaming experience. The whole point is to stamp it out so the next game doesn't have it worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0vrJ-y2zM

Also who has watched this?

You know what bothers me the most out of all this?

The fact that there's Pothean in the game to begin with. It just sounds like Bioware pulled this out of their ass. It seems cheap.

On the OT, I've already decided not to get this, and this just kind of confirms that I don't want to spend my money on this. Bioware has done a marvelous job at fucking with the lore and story, so I'm not gonna pay for it. I might borrow off my brother when he's done with it.

anthony87:

That they've removed the Prothean from the main game only to include it as DLC in order to milk more money out of people.

I can provide evidence that THEY didn't.

http://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/q2sl2/i_am_jessica_merizan_community_manager_for/?sort=hot
[-]jessicamerizan[S] 221 points 6 hours ago

I think there's a lot of misinformation out there and I wish the guy who made the initial video about it would have had an open mind before jumping to conclusions based on a leak we weren't ready to address. Since I'm a BioWare employee, I know people won't automatically trust me, but I hope people will consider that it wasn't cut content from the larger game. I was in Edmonton when we were finishing the game in November/December and I was in Edmonton again last month when they were working on the Day 1 DLC. It definitely was only possible to do because the main game was in certification (which means we had to wait for people to test it and make sure everything was good etc before we could get the greenlight to sell it). I also played the game WITHOUT the DLC in my first playthrough and honestly, it's an awesome addition but I was more than happy with what I was given in the game. It's bigger and more expansive than ever. Of course, I understand the concern but I hope we can all have an intelligent conversation about it and cover what the facts are in this situation.

Hope that helps a little bit. This is an awkward format to answer this question, but I know I could explain it if you were sitting next to me on a couch with some coffee/tea ;)

anthony87:

cpt blackamar:
I am against the day 1 dlc practice, but I do find it a lot harder to argue given the points they made. I'm going to reserve my opinion until after I have the game, play through it, and then play through it with the dlc installed. If it really does add just a couple of skins, and a minimalism character who was there before, I'd be ok with it. If it's that this prothean doesn't appear at all before dlc, and is a pretty important character to the plot (like garrus and tali have always been) then that is pretty despicable. Here's hoping he's just a zaeed.

I'm guessing that it'll be more like Liara in Mass Effect 2. She's still in the main game, still affects the story and the DLC adds her as a squadmate for couple of missions.

But hey, it's all speculation until it comes out.

If it was, then it muddies the water a little further. Liaras quest actually affected the dynamics of the ME universe by quite a bit, and while it wasn't essential to the story of shepard, it was a pretty dam important story-thread. I was ok with that as dlc because the clearly spent a lot of time and effort on it, and it was kind of their swansong for ME2. Now if that had been released on day 1 for ME2, I would have been pissed because it's more than adding a little extra for those who went for collectors edition, it's a pretty hefty inclusion.

Going through it in my head, it essentially comes down to how big the dlc is.

Although doing a bit of research on it myself, biowares story doesn't fully hold face.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/7560449/1 this is a forum thread talking about the prothean squad mate. The biggest problem is it was being discussed 9 months ago. ME3 definitely wasn't in the being printed stage by then. It could be these people made a lucky guess, but I don't know, finding that makes biowares story seem a little bit harder to believe

can we stop with this cut content stuff unless you can give me proof its on the disc kindly move on

anthony87:

Zeel:

anthony87:

Very well. My apologies.

............
............
............
............So?

Where's your evidence?

Specify. Which claims do you want evidence of.

That they've removed the Prothean from the main game only to include it as DLC in order to milk more money out of people.

He isn't likely to respond, because he doesn't have any. It is rather cute though that he claims you are being dishonest when he is the one making wild speculation that has no basis in reality or fact.

this is the new project 10 dollar soon every game that comes from EA even bought new will have a 10 dollar DLC and if we let it slide it will just start to get more and more ridiculous because EA's mission is to take as much money from people as possible

Nurb:
Bioware stopped being credible or supportable the moment they were bought by EA. They didn't pull any of this bullshit before EA.

And your damn right we're entitled, we're entitled to the same content developed for a full priced game regardless of the version we buy. Since when did "Loyal customers" who've come to expect a certain quality become "Entitled gamers" because we don't accept more and more chunks of a game developed before release being wetheld and sold back to us to exploit a purchase of a more expensive version, especially when it's essential story aspects?

image

This is genius. But I have to disagree a little; we are not entitled to the content. EA has the right to sell the game in how many pieces they want to.

However, we are entitled to get angry with the practice and to find it insulting.

Picture this: you buy at a supermarket that provides you plastic bags to carry your groceries (Zaeed), and, for 10 bucks more, they deliver the groceries to your house (CE). You are really not losing anything, it is clearly optional, although more practical and convenient.

Now, the supermarket says that you have to pay for the plastic bags (the prothean, the exiled prince). Sure, the groceries are still there (the game), but it just feels like terrible service and a cheap trick to get more money from you.

If you have money to spare or if you really like that supermarket (or if you already payed to get your groceries delivered)you might think people are overreacting. But what is happening is that the decision does not affect you and you lack vision or sympathy to understand the position of the ones who were planning to use the plastic bags (as they have always).

The outrage is fair. Regardless of the actual content, payed day1 DLC should be cosmetic only - specially if you plan to build a nice relashionship with your costumer base.

Of course, there are some people overreacting. We don't know how essential the content really is. Probably it is not much, but I found this business practice horrendous. Playing Dragon Age 2 without an archer specialist really felt like the game was missing something. I really can't blame people to feel like EA is not only charging for the plastic bags, but also confiscating some of the groceries themselves.

xSKULLY:
this is the new project 10 dollar soon every game that comes from EA even bought new will have a 10 dollar DLC and if we let it slide it will just start to get more and more ridiculous because EA's mission is to take as much money from people as possible

That would be true if this was EAs doing, which it isn't.

James Raynor:

cpt blackamar:
I am against the day 1 dlc practice, but I do find it a lot harder to argue given the points they made. I'm going to reserve my opinion until after I have the game, play through it, and then play through it with the dlc installed. If it really does add just a couple of skins, and a minimalism character who was there before, I'd be ok with it. If it's that this prothean doesn't appear at all before dlc, and is a pretty important character to the plot (like garrus and tali have always been) then that is pretty despicable. Here's hoping he's just a zaeed.

But if it is just as you feared then they just suckered you out of either money or the gaming experience. The whole point is to stamp it out so the next game doesn't have it worse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri0vrJ-y2zM

Also who has watched this?

As true as your point is, I am willing to take the risk on it for this game. If it was a game I was on the fence about buying, like dragon age, I'd definitely refuse to buy it, at least for a good half a year, or buy it second hand, but I have always loved mass effect, got a number of the novels too, I simply can't do it for this one. I'm just going to have my fingers crossed

The Paranoid inside will strangle me in sleep if I believe any explanation offered by company PR department.

[whisper]
I have no problem with them giving lil' something to people who pay extra. Yeah, It would be nice for everyone to get it, but unfortunately that's not how business works. Also, we won't know how crucial this character is to a story until we actually get the game. So if it turns out that he really is cut from the game, by the time you realize it it will be too late.


[/whisper]

I guess, what I'm trying to say is...OH MY GOD HE'S AWAKEEEE! GAAAAH *urk*

I have to say that I'm against Bioware's idea of what is proper content for DLC here. In past, they have given out characters in both Dragon Age games and the second Mass Effect with their own content, which was fine because they didn't have a massive impact on the story. However the difference in Mass Effect 3 is that the downloadable character is the last known survivor of an alien species that has been talked about since the very first hours of the first Mass Effect. This character is not a simple addition like Shale, Zaeed, Kasumi, Sebastian, or Tallis (who was a bit of a ripoff considering that that all the other characters you could get for most if not the entire story whereas she is only available for her story). None of those listed characters impacted the story and if you decided to not get the content, they might as well not have existed. This prothean DLC however is very relevant to the story. An equivalent would be if Morrigan was a DLC character for DA:O or one/both of your siblings survivng for the second installment. Now this rage from the MA fans might all be for nothing for the end of the day. I personally don't see an issue if said prothean was in the game, gave the lines that really mattered while admission as a squadmate and their personal mission was limited to the DLC. Impact like that allows the story to be told to it's fullest and let the people who want to shell out more get some quality with their purchase of the CE/DLC.

TL;DR: Prothean as sqadmate shouldn't matter much as long as he is still in game sans DLC to say important lines.

Paragon Fury:
Hey Bioware?

What about your loyal fans, or anyone else who wanted to wait for the demo of ME3 or previews and therefore can't get a CE? What about them? Now they have to pay for content and get shafted out of other content too.

You also failed to mention those who pre-ordered thier CE copy a long time ago, they had to run out eventually, CE isn't meant to be printed in unlimited quantities like the standard edition. If you didn't pre order before they sold out, tough shit. Bioware even stated quantities where limited, you snooze you lose.

Loethlin:
I know what you are. A pirate. This is not "I fight against ACTA" thing, this is theft. Thanks for reinforcing the pole = thief stereotype, I'm sure everyone appreciates your input.

I bought almost every game I play, believing that hard good work should be rewarded. I'm not even going to get into explaining how piracy is not theft. This time it's their own actions that is losing them a customer, not piracy. They lost my money because of screwing up DLC so it's not theft but poor marketing.

poiuppx:

Have to admit, your reply confounds me a fair bit. 'Good riddance'? Wasn't aware buying the game was a fatal decision. And thanks for permission to part with my money. Really appreciated.

I'll politely avoid fighting over the fact that you evidently have decided your 'zeal' means you get to steal the game. I mean, screw all the people who worked to make the game, this decision on their part as to what they can or cannot offer for their game means the moral right to theft is in your corner. Points to you, sir.

Allow me to clarify. If people wouldn't buy DLC, the content would be included on the disc. This I can guarantee. To paraphrase Andrew Rayan, It's a great chain of capitalism, we all pull it and are all pulled by it. Devs will take from you as much money as you are willing to give them. And as a responsible consumer you should try to give them as little as possible.

"Screwing" the people who worked so hard on making the game is the only way for the industry to improve. Otherwise this will become another standard, under diffren bullshit excuses. I'm really sorry you don't understand this, but then again, I don't really have to save this sinking ship. There is another vessel nearby. One with black sails and skull on them.

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