One Million Moms Want Same-Sex Archie Comic Out of Toys 'R' Us

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dobahci:

Akalabeth:
Why is a parent who doesn't want to expose their kids to sex and violence treated any differently than a parent who doesn't want to expose their kids to the concept of homosexuality?

Why should there be any concern at all about exposing a child to the "concept of homosexuality"? You have to understand that to even frame the issue in that matter (this is something I don't want my child being exposed to just yet) is a sign of prejudice, when one would never consider the "concept of heterosexuality" in the same light.

...

Parents can raise their kids however they want, but they should think long and hard about whether their attempts to "protect" a kid will end up hurting him in the long run.

I understand that it can be seen as prejudice, but I also understand that it's their right to raise their kids as they see fit. In this instance they seem to be simply arguing for that right.

Note that if one were to visit their website, you can see that their overall mission is one that is not focused exclusively on the issue of homosexuality. Despite how the article writer would want to present it.

Mom, OneMillionMoms.com is the most powerful tool you have to stand against the immorality, violence, vulgarity and profanity the entertainment media is throwing at your children.

Obviously homosexuality would fit under their definition of immorality, but their mission is to protect children as a whole or at least that's how they present themselves. Which so far as missions go is not without merit.

I find the number of moms that actually are offended by this to be rather unbelievable, despite the current US population being over 300 million strong. In fact, this only further raises the issue.

Is one million moms even all that effective? Out of the entire US population, approximately .3% are actually offended by this? Seriously, "moms", get a little perspective.

And as a couple people have already said, there are FAR worse toys out there. Don't get me started on the shit those "Bratz" represent, either. We've got products in toy stores showing girls how to become whores, and they're worried about a gods-damned comic, which many children don't even read?

I thought Archie stopped being popular amongst kids years ago. I never knew anyone who read it when I was growing up, and most of the people I know who read it now are adults, anyways.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and if these "moms" want to protect their children, maybe they could start by raising them instead of getting angry at everything which doesn't conform to their biased or prejudiced world views. Either way, the kids are going to form their own opinions about stuff. And if these parents get so damned uppity cause a guy is holding hands with another guy, that kid might take offense to it as well cause their mother and/or father reacts so negatively around it.

This is probably one of the worst things parents can bitch about, cause it means many of the KIDS will, too.

Mad props to Archie and Jon Goldwater (slick last name as well) for sticking with it (though I 'spose they would've had to have seen a backlash coming).

Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and they all stink.

That being said time to spread my cheeks and dump one out for y'all. It is a parents right to educate their children. More importantly it's their RESPOSIBILIty to do so. If they want to decide their children will be willfully ignorant of a reality and instead advocate a fallacy then unfortunately they very much can, and do.

bringer of illumination:

I was never talking about the effects of homosexuality on birthrates or society at large, I was saying that your argument made the case that "because the human psyche wasn't fully understood" that it is reasonable to assume that it is harmful for a child to know about homosexuality.

What I was saying is that that argument logically could apply to ANY knowledge that a child had, I could use the exact same argument to say that it's reasonable to assume that knowing about how pasty is made is harmful for child.

But no, that's a load of horseshit, there's absolutely no reason to assume that knowledge of the existence of homosexuals is any more harmful than any other knowledge.

You're not making an argument, you're one of those individuals who likes to increase the scope of what someone is saying to the point of absurdity in some effort to prove a point but the fact is all you're proving is that you're unable to focus or consider the issues at hand.

To assume that the dimensions of a cereal box, or the way in which "pasty" is made is relevant with regards to how a child approaches a relationship is silly. It just is. But it's perfectly logical to assume that, how a child views the relationships in others can have some significant impact in how they themselves understand relationships. Someone's experience with relationships is more relevant to their own view of relationships than any other completely non-associated factors like "pasty".

If my concept of a relationship is my father beating my mom, then guess what that'll probably have an impact on how I view relationships later on. Similarily, if a married relationship is inclusive of homosexuality at a young age, it is unknown how it will affect the child's view.

People here assume that the presence of this book will increase tolerance and understanding, but, quite frankly I seriously doubt that. Because if the parent themself is intolerant, that's the thing that the child will really pick up, not whether it exists as a "thing".

And if exposure to homosexuality at a young age has the ability to increase the tendency for kids to turn that way, then as I say, it can be construed (ie, argued by some individuals, not necessarily myself) that it is harmful so far as it does not create babies.

bringer of illumination:

This argument that you are making never mentions homosexuality explicitly, you only argue that "mature relationships" might be too complex for children to understand, but guess fucking what, THAT ISN'T WHAT THIS IS ABOUT! Going by your argument, this group should be protecting children from any depiction of relationships, be it straight or gay, but it's seem perfectly acceptable to fill the mind of fucking 2 year old with Happily-ever-after marriage fantasies.

This isn't about "mature relationships" this about the mere fact that two people can have a relationship at all, there's nothing complex about homosexual marriage, you just tell the kid; "It's just like a normal marriage, only with two men", that's not very fucking complex now is it?

How does any kid have a concept of what a "normal marriage" is? They only have one concept, that of their father and mother, and to a far lesser degree probably, that of their friends parent's.

Kids don't understand what marriage is. Teenagers don't understand what marriage is.
All kids understand is "how my mom treats my dad, and how my dad treats my mom".

My point in general is, everyone in this thread is making huge assumptions regarding how easy it is to explain to a kid what is going on. Or they make assumptions that something is not necessarily harmful when how a child develops is not fully understood.

Well I'm sorry but you cannot make those assumptions without some basis in fact. All you have are opinions, so don't present them as fact when the lot of you are talking out your ass. Now you can talk theory if you like, or you can try to present your views with a little objective, but, I suspect that many of you are too immature to do that.

Otaku World Order:
Snipidy snip snip

Still rocking Shizune eh OWO? :D Isn't that the one you rolled out for the hatchet guy back in the KS group?

OT: Gotta give a round of applause to Mr. Goldwater setting them straight, stupidity is still stupidity and dressing it up as the old "wahh it's my opinion" flak jacket doesn't make you less of a dunce when someone nails you with a .50 Cal Anti Moron round.

DVS BSTrD:
One petition makes you bigger
and the other makes you small
and the one your mother sent you
don't do anything at all

Go ask Alice when she's 10 feet tall.

Otaku World Order:

If you don't want your kids exposed to homosexuality, that's your business. If you want to protect your kids from sex and violence, that's also your business.

Look, I get that it's hard to protect your children from that stuff, especially with the state of media these days. If this was about informing parents about something, I wouldn't have a problem. But it's not about informing people, now is it? No, it's about telling one company that they can't have a gay character in their comic book because it offends them.

If it offends you, don't buy it. Simple. If you think Toys R' Us shouldn't sell it, don't shop there. If you want to inform the public about it and get like-minded parents to stay away from it, that's good too. But if you get on some crusade of "This is not appropriate for *my* child, therefore it should not exist", I'm going to call you on it.

If by call you on it, you mean throw a tantrum, make huge and unfair assumptions about their character and motivations, attack and vilify then sure. But realize that by doing so you are acting in a manner that to my mind is even more reprehensible and intolerant than the viewpoint you seek to argue against.

If people wish to disagree with this viewpoint, then sure, but try to conduct yourself with some decorum and view the matter objectively. instead of assuming things to the extent where you are effectively attacking a lie of your own creation.

Or in short, be a little mature. Or at least come to realize how your own response is self-defeating and undermined by your own intolerant and highly subjective viewpoint.

WOW cant wait for these moms to hear about one of the openly gay characters new ONGOING siries! XD and also fuck them if gay people wanna get married its their right!

Akalabeth:

dobahci:

Akalabeth:
Why is a parent who doesn't want to expose their kids to sex and violence treated any differently than a parent who doesn't want to expose their kids to the concept of homosexuality?

Why should there be any concern at all about exposing a child to the "concept of homosexuality"? You have to understand that to even frame the issue in that matter (this is something I don't want my child being exposed to just yet) is a sign of prejudice, when one would never consider the "concept of heterosexuality" in the same light.

...

Parents can raise their kids however they want, but they should think long and hard about whether their attempts to "protect" a kid will end up hurting him in the long run.

I understand that it can be seen as prejudice, but I also understand that it's their right to raise their kids as they see fit. In this instance they seem to be simply arguing for that right.

Nobody's rights are being violated. They have a right to not buy the comic, or to not visit Toys R' Us, Toys R' Us has a right to carry the comic, "1 million Moms" has a right to complain and Toys R' Us has a right to ignore them like they probably will.

Akalabeth:

Note that if one were to visit their website, you can see that their overall mission is one that is not focused exclusively on the issue of homosexuality. Despite how the article writer would want to present it.

Mom, OneMillionMoms.com is the most powerful tool you have to stand against the immorality, violence, vulgarity and profanity the entertainment media is throwing at your children.

Obviously homosexuality would fit under their definition of immorality, but their mission is to protect children as a whole or at least that's how they present themselves. Which so far as missions go is not without merit.

So they're a "think of the children" moral crusader. Maybe the rest of their mission is noble (which I doubt) but homosexuality is not immoral, so they should be getting flak for this.

I know this is going to sound really dark, but maybe we should re-name the organazation "One Million Kids With Dead Moms" because I cannot tolerate this much raw stupid.

Why don't we all ban algebra too?

I mean, we don't want the poor children to get confused to we? Then we might have to actually teach them something *shudder*

I love how it appears that Mr. Weatherbee is the only one crying at the wedding...

Hiroshi Mishima:
I find the number of moms that actually are offended by this to be rather unbelievable, despite the current US population being over 300 million strong. In fact, this only further raises the issue.

Is one million moms even all that effective? Out of the entire US population, approximately .3% are actually offended by this? Seriously, "moms", get a little perspective.

Even more "funny" is the fact their twitter only has 1200 followers though they claim their facebook has 44.000 members. So they may call themselves one million moms so maybe 0.03% is closer to the truth. Dunno if that 0.03% know how democracy works but 0.03% is not a majority (just a very vocal annoying big minority)

Because heaven forbid your child could see 2 people in love. Or that you should have to answer questions from them.

Blind Sight:
Not much else to say here really. The Moms have voiced their opinion, but the company obviously doesn't see it as a threat to their consumer base and thus are rightly ignoring the complaints.

I heard a recent interview with Alex Segura, director of publicity and marketing for Archie Comics. He claimed ever since the company got away from its 1960s stasis and made their books more progressive--more visible minority characters, Archie and Valerie's interracial kiss, Kevin Keller, the Betty and Veronica wedding issues--sales have skyrocketed. (Archie Comics is privately held and not accountable to any shareholders.) So it's pretty clear the free market has spoken on this issue.

Mike Fang:
On the OTHER hand, sexuality can be a very complicated subject, one that I can imagine a lot of children having a tough time understanding. Explaining the birds and the bees to a child for the first time is something that needs to be approached carefully. Having to do that at the same time as explaining homosexuality is really tossing a kid into the deep end to teach him or her how to swim. So while printing the comic may not be a legitimate thing to complain about, selling it in a toy store could be seen as going a step too far. This is one issue that may have been better to have limited releases.

I strongly disagree. To a young child, everything is complicated. Parents are able to explain heterosexual relationships to children: mommy and daddy are married; your aunt is going to marry that man and he'll be your uncle; your older brother has a girlfriend. Why is it so much harder to explain that two men are married, or two women are dating? You do not have to explain the plumbing of homosexual sexuality to explain homosexual relationships any more than telling your kids "mommy and daddy are married" has to immediately segue into a discussion of penises and vaginas.

I cannot accept that explaining the concept of homosexual relationships is more complicated than explaining the concepts of ex-spouses and stepfamilies that even more children are likely to be exposed to, and yet I don't see a call to ban comics featuring divorcÚs and stepparents.

idarkphoenixi:
Why don't we all ban algebra too?

I mean, we don't want the poor children to get confused to we? Then we might have to actually teach them something *shudder*

Well after all, math is just a theory:

(Obviously not real, it's a satire on the 'Should we teach kids evolution in school?' question from Miss USA)

Carsus Tyrell:

Still rocking Shizune eh OWO? :D Isn't that the one you rolled out for the hatchet guy back in the KS group?

OT: Gotta give a round of applause to Mr. Goldwater setting them straight, stupidity is still stupidity and dressing it up as the old "wahh it's my opinion" flak jacket doesn't make you less of a dunce when someone nails you with a .50 Cal Anti Moron round.

Indeed it is. Shizune is awesome.

Akalabeth:

If by call you on it, you mean throw a tantrum, make huge and unfair assumptions about their character and motivations, attack and vilify then sure. But realize that by doing so you are acting in a manner that to my mind is even more reprehensible and intolerant than the viewpoint you seek to argue against.

If people wish to disagree with this viewpoint, then sure, but try to conduct yourself with some decorum and view the matter objectively. instead of assuming things to the extent where you are effectively attacking a lie of your own creation.

Or in short, be a little mature. Or at least come to realize how your response is self-defeated and undermined by your own intolerant and subjective viewpoint.

That's a fair enough point.

So, let's look at this objectively.

One Million Moms, the group behind this, was also behind protest of Ellen DeGeneres as a spokesperson for JC Penney. Why? Because she's gay. Was she promoting a homosexual lifestyle or anything that would "harm the children" as part of her job? No. Would Ellen's position cause children to ask questions that parents wouldn't be ready to answer? No.

So when the same group comes out against a comic book, is it more likely that their objections are based on:

a) The belief that there children are too young to understand the nature of a homosexual relationship and that they should bee older and more mature before being taught about such things.

Or

b) A belief that homosexuality is wrong and that there's a "homosexual agenda" out to corrupt their children.

Given the fact that the AFA, the group behind One Million Moms, has talked about the whole "homosexual agenda" on a number of occasions, I think it's safe to assume the answer is "b".

See, you're accusing me of "guessing" at their motives and character, but they've already made their motives and character clear through their own past actions and the goals of the organization they are a part of.

Y'know, this makes me want to start reading the Sonic the Hedgehog comics again. I rather enjoyed those. There were some remarkable stories in there. Hooleee shit were there. Some pretty dark stuff, too.

Good on you Archie Comics *applauds*. Makes me want to buy your products. Good advertising.

Capthca: outsice urtunic

What? I don't even own a tunic!

Volf:

Realitycrash:

Volf:
I didn't say sheltered, just that parents should be able to control what subjects toy stores expose children to.

Then parents can vote with their wallets and go somewhere else?
If Toys R Us released a new GI-Joe action-figure, why should we allow that? Should parents have a say too? How about an easy-bake oven? Should parents have a say there?

No? Because these things aren't "offensive"? Well, neither is homosexuality.

wrong, some people find homosexual marriage "offensive" when comparing it to heterosexual marriage, they have a right to voice their opinion just as much as anybody else.

Lets take this back a couple decades with your last statement.

"wrong, some people find biracial marriage "offensive" when comparing it to normal marriage, they have a right to voice their opinion just as much as anybody else."

Freedom of speech =/= freedom to be a bigot.

Lumber Barber:

Yeargh! Them Negros ain't dun no good to old uncle Sam since they came to our country from Africa! Them good furrnuthin' music-freaks, with their... Jazz! Jazz ain't no Negro music, it all them Jews' nonsense play it!
I tell ya, thinks were whole lotta better back at my day, slappin' everybody around being OVERLORD WHITE MASTER RACE!
/hurmphhh

Oh, plese don't get me started on the Jews.I hate those large nosed, stupid pigtailed, "Mosche" named, money grubbing.......Jews.And they invented the Halacoust.Now we be them, good , moral, sensible,Godfearfull white folk.
The world is falling apart caues it's bein' ruled by them Neggroes,Arabs and them Jews.Now If you excuse me I late for my Klan meeting.

Skullkid4187:
When did the Escapist become the head of internet politics?

Rather us then 4chan

One million moms and not a single one of them is a good parent.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. On the one hand this is laughably stupid, but on the other I can't believe people still have narrow-minded beliefs such as this. That was a very good response form the co-CEO however.

PS. Is it just me, or are half the posts here replies to or posts by Volf?

Jon Goldwater is awesome.

Period.

Okay, I sort of agreed with their reasoning that perhaps at the checkouts might not be the best place to deal with a complex issue. But then they wanted them gone from everywhere, so now I'm stuck with another quandry: Where is the nearest Toys R' Us?

they can complain until they're blue in the mouth but it's not up to them what Toys R Us sells.

Skullkid4187:
When did the Escapist become the head of internet politics?

Since 2005, when it first launched

mintfresh:

Volf:

Realitycrash:

Then parents can vote with their wallets and go somewhere else?
If Toys R Us released a new GI-Joe action-figure, why should we allow that? Should parents have a say too? How about an easy-bake oven? Should parents have a say there?

No? Because these things aren't "offensive"? Well, neither is homosexuality.

wrong, some people find homosexual marriage "offensive" when comparing it to heterosexual marriage, they have a right to voice their opinion just as much as anybody else.

Yes, they have the right to voice their opinion just as much as everyone else. As much as EVERYONE else. Meaning that if you want to censor these guys by pulling their comic from the shelves, then everyone can censor their homophobic bigotry spouting hides. As for your 'right' to express your opinions on homosexual marriage and to find it "offensive"? Well here's a newsflash, the pro-homosexual side of the argument aren't doing anything to you, and they're not saying YOUR lifestyle is wrong. You're the ones butting your noses into something that doesn't affect you. Homosexual marriage has a direct effect only on the people involved, and THAT is why THEIR opinion is more important and valid on the subject than YOURS.

Please go and read comment #162

Rainboq:

Volf:
wrong, some people find homosexual marriage "offensive" when comparing it to heterosexual marriage, they have a right to voice their opinion just as much as anybody else.

Okay, I'll bite, why do they find it offensive, and why should we even listen to them?

Go bite on comment #162

Kamehapa:

Volf:

Realitycrash:

Then parents can vote with their wallets and go somewhere else?
If Toys R Us released a new GI-Joe action-figure, why should we allow that? Should parents have a say too? How about an easy-bake oven? Should parents have a say there?

No? Because these things aren't "offensive"? Well, neither is homosexuality.

wrong, some people find homosexual marriage "offensive" when comparing it to heterosexual marriage, they have a right to voice their opinion just as much as anybody else.

Lets take this back a couple decades with your last statement.

"wrong, some people find biracial marriage "offensive" when comparing it to normal marriage, they have a right to voice their opinion just as much as anybody else."

Freedom of speech =/= freedom to be a bigot.

Please look at comment #162

Lazy activism protip. Hope over to the Million Moms "current issues" page. They have to the option to complain to Toys 'R Us. Delete the boilerplate shit they fill it in with and tell Toys 'R Us to keep the same sex issue.

"Hey guys just wanted to I've heard you guys are taking a bit of flak for the the whole Same Sex Marriage Archie thing. I just wanted to say stick with your guns and don't let the crazy Million Mom people sway either your business model or your ethics. You earn at least one high five and my continued business if you don't let these people seem like they are anything more than the bigoted minority they really are." is what I put.

Somehow, I doubt that they actually have a million moms. But I guess it sound more impressive than "Six or Seven People with Too Much Time on their Hands".

Blind Sight:

Mortai Gravesend:

Juvenile? Oh I'm so sorry that I don't treat prejudice with the respect it deserves. Oh wait, yes I do. None. His demeanor is quite irrelevant, don't be absurd. Politely treating gays as lesser is still just as fucked up.

Oh and if you don't like how I'm acting... do something about it? Oh wait, you can't. So I'll be a 'condescending ass' to people who act prejudiced all I like and you can go on and pander to them.

And I don't care if someone is so illogical they think it undermines my argument. Their inability to logically evaluate an argument isn't my problem, it's theirs. Deal with it.

God forbid you be the better man and have a civil discussion. No, a holier then thou attitude is definitely the most effective way to convey a point.

I think I'm the better man by default when I'm the one who isn't being prejudiced. But no, holding a more ethical position pales in comparison to the importance of being polite. Treat homosexuality like it's some shameful thing, but God forbid you aren't nice when people do that =O

To be fair...

Why is it being sold at selected toys 'r' us?

Like, really? It's not a toy, it's target consumer isn't kids (Or anybody, really, I don't think anyone reads archie anymore), which is the target consumer for toys r us.

It makes no sense.

And they had to have seen this coming...

I still think One Million Moms is great name for some garage post-punk/grindcore band. It could even be with songs for the kids out there!

As much as I'd like to add some substance to the post relevant to the topic. I really can't. Bigotry is not worth commenting and we should just let it die in a similar fashion dinosaurs died (well..maybe without huge meteor colliding with earth...)

Alternate title for the article: "One Million Moms Have Child Protective Services Called On Them For Raising Their Children In A Household Built on Intolerance And Bigotry - All Children Go To Married Gay Couples." ^_^

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