New Console Generation Brings Fear

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT
 

Grey Carter:

Therumancer:

Grey Carter:

You're talking about licensing a third part engine but you're missing the point. Even if you do license an engine (which itself cost a substantial amount) you still have to create assets. Stronger hardware requires more detailed, and more numerous art assets. Higher poly models, more lighting effects and with the advent of DX11, tessellation effects. They all cost money.

All of that still comes down to your toolbox and paying the guy who sits there with it to create that stuff. It costs more money because the graphics dudes sitting there and says "well despite sitting here for 8 hours a day anyway if you want me to do this I demand more money for continueing to sit here for 8 hours a day making graphics". There isn't any real inherant resource here other than the people, and the fee to get the engine which by it's nature is a tool to make creating that stuff easier.

Do you have any experience in the gaming industry at all? Or any experience with 3D modeling, texturing or light work? Because you're way off the mark here. More work = more time = longer development cycle(or more staff) = more wages = larger budget. It's really that simple. I'd suggest you give this a read.

I'm actually rather curious about the costs of optimization for current gen consoles. It took years of engine development to make Rage and the original Crysis be able to run on the PS3 and XBox360. More powerful hardware surely means less resources spent on optimization?

Also, as far as I know, asset developers actually first create high res textures and high poly models and then downscale them accordingly, so I don't see costs rising in the area of asset development that much.

Foolproof:

Grey Carter:

Foolproof:
You missed the words Braid, Trine, and Flow, off the top of my head. And when are PC gamers gonna stop fooling themselves that Cthulu's problem was a lack of exposure and coverage the first time around by the press, not any kind of problem with console gaming?

I missed those words because Braid and Trine sold far more on PC than they did on Xbox live.

And to back this up you have what, exactly?

And Trine wasn't on Xbox Live, so thats not much of an achievement.

VG Chartz is down at the moment, but take a look when you get a chance. Trine was out for months on PC before being ported to PSN.

Raiyan 1.0:

Grey Carter:

Therumancer:

All of that still comes down to your toolbox and paying the guy who sits there with it to create that stuff. It costs more money because the graphics dudes sitting there and says "well despite sitting here for 8 hours a day anyway if you want me to do this I demand more money for continueing to sit here for 8 hours a day making graphics". There isn't any real inherant resource here other than the people, and the fee to get the engine which by it's nature is a tool to make creating that stuff easier.

Do you have any experience in the gaming industry at all? Or any experience with 3D modeling, texturing or light work? Because you're way off the mark here. More work = more time = longer development cycle(or more staff) = more wages = larger budget. It's really that simple. I'd suggest you give this a read.

I'm actually rather curious about the costs of optimization for current gen consoles. It took years of engine development to make Rage and the original Crysis be able to run on the PS3 and XBox360. More powerful hardware surely means less resources spent on optimization?

Also, as far as I know, asset developers actually first create high res textures and high poly models and then downscale them accordingly, so I don't see costs rising in the area of asset development that much.

Unfortunately most developers aren't pushing for faster hardware for better performance. If they were, 60 FPS would be the standard. Instead they'll try to squeeze as much eye candy out of the new hardware as possible.

As to your second point, that used to be the case when there was a reason to do so. Now that PCs aren't considered a viable platform by most devs, they simply don't bother creating assets at higher levels of detail than they need. That's why most PC ports tend to have scarcely improved textures these days.

Grey Carter:

Foolproof:

Grey Carter:

I missed those words because Braid and Trine sold far more on PC than they did on Xbox live.

And to back this up you have what, exactly?

And Trine wasn't on Xbox Live, so thats not much of an achievement.

VG Chartz is down at the moment, but take a look when you get a chance. Trine was out for months on PC before being ported to PSN.

Since when is VG Chartz accurate? Hell, when does it get anything other than guesses for digitial releases?

So who wants to bet that Nintendo's next failed gimmick will be 3D? They failed to take advantage of the motion controller's potential and I expect them to do the same with 3D.
I mean, the 3DS hasn't really amazed anybody.

Nintendo needs to stop looking for childish gimmicks and actually do what the big boy consoles do and release GOOD GAMES! (crazy idea, I know)

Although I have to say that with 3 friends, Super Smash Brothers is pretty awesome.

ResonanceSD:
GTX 680 benchmarks and reviews released today. Guess how much the PC gamer market gives a damn about consoles finally improving specs?

Did you guess "not even slightly"? well you're correct!

I give a damn and here's why: I bought this PC 8 years ago and I can still run the latest games on it, thanks to developers making their games cross-platform. If it weren't for consoles being a limiting factor I would have had to fork out for a whole new PC by now.

Whether you (plural) care or not is irrelevant, it will still affect you. The new console generation means that games will no longer be limited by this generation's hardware. So if you can afford the stupidly high prices of top-of-the-line graphics cards, such as the GTX 680, then this should be a cause for celebration because games will be able to make use of that extra power.
If you're like me, however, and can't afford to upgrade your system any time soon then the new generation of consoles are indeed something to fear, even as a PC gamer.

The consoles have to change at some point, the hardware of the current ones is way too old. They won't be able to go on forever with the same consoles.

It's fun to see all these people saying that PC is obviously now the way forward. I haven't yet seen always on DRM on my XBox Games, and only on occasion do I have to wait for something to install before I can play games on it. I don't have to download every single game taking over an hour before it tells me that the graphics card on my week old laptop is out of date.

Also, I love how much people will bang on about next generation graphics, longer more engaging experiences, and how the new generation opens up unlimited opportunities for developers to explore games in a whole new way, and then go 'Yay! Two dimensional flash games that wouldn't have looked out of place if they were free to play on NewGrounds, but I get to pay for them instead! That's the way forwards!'

tough shit mate we got to turn over within the next two years my PS3 and 360 have been good but we are limiting ourselves by sticking to them and not filling the gap between consoles and PC's

Foolproof:

Busard:
My worry is about what was enunciated at the beginning of the article: the fact that publishers are gonna take even less risks. They're already cutting off and dumbing down the market a lot as of now. I can't see that with a good eye

Yet another reason for PC gaming =D

"Our market isn't *completely* full of homogenized crap"
-unlikely marketing tag for Steam

"We took a glorified boring visual novel and fooled gamers into thinking it was "the next evolution of art in videogames.""
-other unlikely marketting tag for Steam.

Woa woa woa there buddies.

This has nothing to do about platformes. It's about the publishers. I play on PC and PS3 and I would be worried either way about the impact of "riskless investments" as it would impact the gaming medium as a whole and not by platform specifically.

(also I liked Dear Esther but for personal reasons. You're probably referring to the Jim Sterling video. I don't think "art games" (or nongame in the case of Dear Esther) in general are a threat to the medium as they stay a small minority, and in fact can serve as example for future, better titles instead of pulling it down)

Well that's simple to fix. All you have to do is ignore new consoles. It's Sony and Microsoft who should be afraid. Especially Microsoft because they charge for online play.

Consoles will no doubt be extremely expensive when they come out. And current PC hardware is probably at least twice as powerful than anything Sony and MS can come up with. And not only that, but PC hardware is getting cheaper and cheaper. Not to mention cheaper games, bundles of games on Steam, controller support, HDTV support if you like playing from a couch, free online play etc. And we are hearing rumors about no used copy sales on next gen consoles.

Why the fuck would anyone want to buy a next gen console?

Mr. Omega:
*Comes into thread expecting PC Gaming circle jerk* Never change, PC Gamers...

The escapist never fails to impress, ever the bastion of maturity.

I fucking hate that word 'monetize'. Fuck.

Busard:

Foolproof:

Yet another reason for PC gaming =D

"Our market isn't *completely* full of homogenized crap"
-unlikely marketing tag for Steam

"We took a glorified boring visual novel and fooled gamers into thinking it was "the next evolution of art in videogames.""
-other unlikely marketting tag for Steam.

Woa woa woa there buddies.

This has nothing to do about platformes. It's about the publishers. I play on PC and PS3 and I would be worried either way about the impact of "riskless investments" as it would impact the gaming medium as a whole and not by platform specifically.

(also I liked Dear Esther but for personal reasons. You're probably referring to the Jim Sterling video. I don't think "art games" (or nongame in the case of Dear Esther) in general are a threat to the medium as they stay a small minority, and in fact can serve as example for future, better titles instead of pulling it down)

My problem with Dear Esther is that it is as exciting, dramatic and interactive as a haunted house audio tour. Thats quite purely what it is. And yet PC gamers are acting like its the second coming. They've started to believe their own bullshit.

As for the less risks thing, I'm curious, is that the same risk avoidance thats making Sony give an untested developer $30 million and telling them to make a fan game? Honestly, the publishers people say are taking less risks are the people who never took risks before (You're seriously claiming EA are signifigantly less open to new IP's this generation than last? Really?)

AzrealMaximillion:

NvrPhazed:

DVS BSTrD:
May the weak perish swiftly.
image

Obvious troll is extremely obvious.

OT: This has a wait and see feel to me. Could it go wrong?: yes. Will it?: Only God knows.

Not really trolling :P The Wii needs to go away in concept. Never again should a company base their product on a single gimmicky function and then let quality control of games plummet to appease a target demographic. A demographic that has been shown to not be repeat customers.

F and U to you.

I like that gimmick. And not every games are based on it. Besides Metroid is much better with it than without. The same for the combat style in Skyward Sword.
Saying you want to go exstint just because you don't like it, it's very fascist like.

Besides, Wii + PC is the best combination. I can play FPS and some games that are not on the Wii on the PC. And I can play the awesome Nintendo exclusives on the Wii, plus tennis games, it's way better with tht controls than standart ones.

ResonanceSD:
GTX 680 benchmarks and reviews released today. Guess how much the PC gamer market gives a damn about consoles finally improving specs?

Did you guess "not even slightly"? well you're correct!

Don't forget that it will take them at least a year to create a game that actually can use those "new consoles" to their full potential.

And in three years, PCs will already be stronger than those consoles. Again.

NvrPhazed:

DVS BSTrD:
May the weak perish swiftly.
image

Obvious troll is extremely obvious.

OT: This has a wait and see feel to me. Could it go wrong?: yes. Will it?: Only God knows.

Oh you think we are trolling? You think gamers don't genuinely welcome the end of this BS?

Tanis:

Gaming is a HOBBY, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be treated like a criminal by companies that want MY money.

Screw them.

i like that quote. sums up how i feel nicely

Grey Carter:
As to your second point, that used to be the case when there was a reason to do so.

Downscaling is still fairly common. Was never really about retaining or creating PC assets it was about maximising resource use - working over scale and downscaling can give much better results than working at scale does is you're really pushing for detailed work.

However downscaling doesn't automatically mean 'working from what would be acceptable PC assets' (because PC assets are often downscaled as well) just 'working at a scale that gives me space to get everything done without feeling like hammering roofing nails into my skull'.

Yosharian:
I fucking hate that word 'monetize'. Fuck.

I find it much preferable to words like:
-Bankrupt
-liquidated
-Closure

Because that's what happens when they can't make enough money to pay for all their time and resources spent developing and maintain games. They disappear or are bought up cheap by EA.

But, I have faith with this new digital future as unlike with the current console model where developers only get 30% of the money YOU spend... on digital distribution like iOS or Steam the developer is guaranteed to 70%! You don't need big evil publishers like EA in this model, a developer working independently can easily sell millions of copies with huge returns.

70% of every sale (but cutting out the retail markup and packaging, etc) means they are effectively earning 2.35x per sale as the old model. To the people who actually MAKE the games!

And with digital retail you can so easily sell MASSIVELY more copies with dynamic offers, cheap and targeted marketing.

As a PC gamer I have seen this, I have LIVED this for almost the past decade and buddy, it works. In the past Half Decade it has super accelerated with Steam, iOS, GoG.com and other services.

This is making more money for the people who deserve it and need it, the game developers.

Well, I'm out of money, so I'll probably skip the next console generation and stick to my favorite platform.
The PC.

Treblaine:

Yosharian:
I fucking hate that word 'monetize'. Fuck.

I find it much preferable to words like:
-Bankrupt
-liquidated
-Closure

Because that's what happens when they can't make enough money to pay for all their time and resources spent developing and maintain games. They disappear or are bought up cheap by EA.

But, I have faith with this new digital future as unlike with the current console model where developers only get 30% of the money YOU spend... on digital distribution like iOS or Steam the developer is guaranteed to 70%! You don't need big evil publishers like EA in this model, a developer working independently can easily sell millions of copies with huge returns.

70% of every sale (but cutting out the retail markup and packaging, etc) means they are effectively earning 2.35x per sale as the old model. To the people who actually MAKE the games!

And with digital retail you can so easily sell MASSIVELY more copies with dynamic offers, cheap and targeted marketing.

As a PC gamer I have seen this, I have LIVED this for almost the past decade and buddy, it works. In the past Half Decade it has super accelerated with Steam, iOS, GoG.com and other services.

This is making more money for the people who deserve it and need it, the game developers.

Wtf. I said I don't like the word. I mean, I'd rather they said different ways to 'pay for it' or 'fund'. Has nothing to do with that wall of text you just threw down.

Story about new console generation?

PC somehow turns into main topic?

Oh you, Escapist!

Mr. Omega:
*Comes into thread expecting PC Gaming circle jerk* Never change, PC Gamers...

Knows someone will call a resounding call for a change in the status quo of console mediocrity dominance a "PC Gaming circle jerk".

Typical. This isn't self-congratulatory bullshit, this is opposition to a model where developers only get 30-cents of every Dollar you spend, when people are struggling to afford $60 per game.

With the new Digital model seen on PC and COULD be coming to console games, developers make 2.35x as much for every game they sell. They can sell less than half as many and still make more money.

Yosharian:

Treblaine:

Yosharian:
I fucking hate that word 'monetize'. Fuck.

I find it much preferable to words like:
-Bankrupt
-liquidated
-Closure

Because that's what happens when they can't make enough money to pay for all their time and resources spent developing and maintain games. They disappear or are bought up cheap by EA.

But, I have faith with this new digital future as unlike with the current console model where developers only get 30% of the money YOU spend... on digital distribution like iOS or Steam the developer is guaranteed to 70%! You don't need big evil publishers like EA in this model, a developer working independently can easily sell millions of copies with huge returns.

70% of every sale (but cutting out the retail markup and packaging, etc) means they are effectively earning 2.35x per sale as the old model. To the people who actually MAKE the games!

And with digital retail you can so easily sell MASSIVELY more copies with dynamic offers, cheap and targeted marketing.

As a PC gamer I have seen this, I have LIVED this for almost the past decade and buddy, it works. In the past Half Decade it has super accelerated with Steam, iOS, GoG.com and other services.

This is making more money for the people who deserve it and need it, the game developers.

Wtf. I said I don't like the word. I mean, I'd rather they said different ways to 'pay for it' or 'fund'. Has nothing to do with that wall of text you just threw down.

Well excuuuuse me, but words have meaning. I kinda assumed you had a problem with the meaning, not such a trivial issue with the form of the word.

How is it different using the term "fund" as opposed to "monetize"? It's superficial.

Treblaine:

Yosharian:

Treblaine:

I find it much preferable to words like:
-Bankrupt
-liquidated
-Closure

Because that's what happens when they can't make enough money to pay for all their time and resources spent developing and maintain games. They disappear or are bought up cheap by EA.

But, I have faith with this new digital future as unlike with the current console model where developers only get 30% of the money YOU spend... on digital distribution like iOS or Steam the developer is guaranteed to 70%! You don't need big evil publishers like EA in this model, a developer working independently can easily sell millions of copies with huge returns.

70% of every sale (but cutting out the retail markup and packaging, etc) means they are effectively earning 2.35x per sale as the old model. To the people who actually MAKE the games!

And with digital retail you can so easily sell MASSIVELY more copies with dynamic offers, cheap and targeted marketing.

As a PC gamer I have seen this, I have LIVED this for almost the past decade and buddy, it works. In the past Half Decade it has super accelerated with Steam, iOS, GoG.com and other services.

This is making more money for the people who deserve it and need it, the game developers.

Wtf. I said I don't like the word. I mean, I'd rather they said different ways to 'pay for it' or 'fund'. Has nothing to do with that wall of text you just threw down.

Well excuuuuse me, but words have meaning. I kinda assumed you had a problem with the meaning, not such a trivial issue with the form of the word.

How is it different using the term "fund" as opposed to "monetize"? It's superficial.

I suppose it is trivial, but it's the word I dislike =p It makes me think of this:

Yosharian:

Treblaine:

Yosharian:

Wtf. I said I don't like the word. I mean, I'd rather they said different ways to 'pay for it' or 'fund'. Has nothing to do with that wall of text you just threw down.

Well excuuuuse me, but words have meaning. I kinda assumed you had a problem with the meaning, not such a trivial issue with the form of the word.

How is it different using the term "fund" as opposed to "monetize"? It's superficial.

I suppose it is trivial, but it's the word I dislike =p It makes me think of this:

That's called "Price gouging" and is quite a distinct subset of monetization.

It's exploiting capitalism to make it work the way it isn't supposed to work, by creating a de-facto monopoly such as being the only store in town during a natural disaster then charging huge prices because people have no choice. Charging exorbitant prices within a game you are committed to is price gouging, there is no competition.

The very fact that he tries to deny the "gouging" claim only shows how sensitive he is about it. He never explains why it is not gouging, he simply DENIES it. Denies the basic truth of the matter, like denying the earth is round.

but we already had the next generation of consoles for the past 15 years. they are called personal computers. they are more powerful, can do more and allow more options to develop on. basically the definition of new generation console. i understand that there are people who keep playing 20 year old games and so on. its their choice. but come on, why develop new ones for obsolete technology? its like developing games for windows 98, who does that?

Anoni Mus:

AzrealMaximillion:

NvrPhazed:

Obvious troll is extremely obvious.

OT: This has a wait and see feel to me. Could it go wrong?: yes. Will it?: Only God knows.

Not really trolling :P The Wii needs to go away in concept. Never again should a company base their product on a single gimmicky function and then let quality control of games plummet to appease a target demographic. A demographic that has been shown to not be repeat customers.

F and U to you.

I like that gimmick. And not every games are based on it. Besides Metroid is much better with it than without. The same for the combat style in Skyward Sword.
Saying you want to go exstint just because you don't like it, it's very fascist like.

Besides, Wii + PC is the best combination. I can play FPS and some games that are not on the Wii on the PC. And I can play the awesome Nintendo exclusives on the Wii, plus tennis games, it's way better with tht controls than standart ones.

It was a gimmick that was horribly implemented and very rarely used by Nintendo themselves (seriously why even have the gimmick if you're not going to use it well in your own flagship titles?). As well as a gimmick that essentially fueled shovelware beyond belief. There's no excuse for Nintendo's lack of quality control there. None.

And I don't think you know what the word fascist means. Me saying I don't want a company to build a console based almost entirely on giving up technical power for a single gimmick is not a fascist statement. Not even close. You have to admit, the lack of support for the 3rd party developers was pretty disgusting this gen by Nintendo.

That's what I don't want to see next gen:
1.Console based on a single gimmick
2.Console essentially ditching the gimmick themselves
3.Quality Control being non-existant
4.Basically ignoring 3rd party developers
5.Ignoring your customer base for another demographic

Your argument didn't really state why the Wii's business model for video game consoles to follow should stay. It was all opinion based on your experience. I've had friends personally say that Skyward Sword's combat was hampered by the motion controls for them. Likewise with the Metroid games. That's all subjective though. What I'm talking about the business concept that the Wii was based on. It lost Nintendo money for the first time in 30 years because sales just stopped dead. It lost interest due to a lack of games that people who game as a pastime wanted.

For example: Xenoblade Chronicles is getting released in NA this year. This is also supposed to be the year that the Wii U drops. Kind of late to be releasing games that would've done well with more "core" gamers on the Wii.
It's decisions like that the industry should avoid next gen.

Zachary Amaranth:

DVS BSTrD:
May the weak perish swiftly.
image

I thought Wii had something, man!

it did, a profit out of the gate XD

It appears I'm not the only one who doesn't want to deal with another string of consoles. The ones we have now are fine.

Desaari:

ResonanceSD:
GTX 680 benchmarks and reviews released today. Guess how much the PC gamer market gives a damn about consoles finally improving specs?

Did you guess "not even slightly"? well you're correct!

I give a damn and here's why: I bought this PC 8 years ago and I can still run the latest games on it, thanks to developers making their games cross-platform. If it weren't for consoles being a limiting factor I would have had to fork out for a whole new PC by now.

Whether you (plural) care or not is irrelevant, it will still affect you. The new console generation means that games will no longer be limited by this generation's hardware. So if you can afford the stupidly high prices of top-of-the-line graphics cards, such as the GTX 680, then this should be a cause for celebration because games will be able to make use of that extra power.
If you're like me, however, and can't afford to upgrade your system any time soon then the new generation of consoles are indeed something to fear, even as a PC gamer.

Skyrim/minecraft HD texture packs, Dehr HD textures, metro 2033, crysis, etc

We already have mutiple games which, and here's the key, don't take their lead from consoles

Yes I also find great satisfaction in this trend. As a 30 year old life long time gamer, I find this current 'hardcore' console generation (I don't play it a lot but I'm fine with my Wii) has left me alienated, but for the last couple of years Steam and the indy scene on PC has really started to bring me pick. Further more, I can't help but feel the main console crowd have become a bunch of self entitled little pricks, so there'll be some amount of satisfaction watching what happened to me happen to them.

Tanis:
Seeing as how so many devs WANT:
Always on DRM
Online Passes
DLC that should have been in the damn game
Digital only distribution - with no price cut to match
ect
ect

I'll probably end up skipping the Xbox720/PS4/WiiU2 if that crap happens.

Gaming is a HOBBY, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be treated like a criminal by companies that want MY money.

Screw them.

This epitomizes my views precisely. Digital distribution is just another attempt to push more costs onto the computer.

And I agree, I am not a thief and I certainly will not pay for the privilege of being treated as though I am one.

Tanakh:

Audacity:
If you still think it hasn't been dumbed down then you're too much of a fan and allowing it to screw with your perception of the game.

Ohh, the old either you agree with my subjective perceptions or you are a stupid argument, never gets old.

Worst part is it's true. To some point. Think about anything you loved or played as a kid. Think about all that fun time playing it. Go back and play it and compare it to everything nowadays. You will lie to yourself. No matter how good or bad that game was if it is, to you, the greatest game ever made then nothing in the world will change that. You will lie to yourself to convince yourself it is something amazing when in reality it usually isn't that good. Like looking back at the "best" years of your life. You will think they were amazing and grand but in reality they were probably just mediocre and nothing to go wild about.

ResonanceSD:

Audacity:

ResonanceSD:

I loled when I saw Skyrim alongside BF3 and MW3. Nice try. Of those, I've only bought Skyrim. Nothing about it seems dumbed down. It's more functional than Oblivion, sure, not dumbed down.

Skyrim is more functional sure. But in terms of customization it is. Freedom also. You are limited to X amount of spells and can't create any new ones. Weapon "Crafting" Though just introduced is a simple mathematical calculation. 4 pieces of armor for your entire body. Removed many of the past skills for a FPS perk tree. Play Morrowind. Then play Oblivion. Then play skyrim. If you still think it hasn't been dumbed down then you're too much of a fan and allowing it to screw with your perception of the game.

Amazing, the Morrowind argument comes out again. Morrowind's wasn't nearly as good as Skyrim's, and I've played since Arena. "Less complex" isn't the same as "dumbed down" and the faster you accept and understand that, the happier you'll be. The fact that there's more complexity to achieve the same thing doesn't make something better.

No. The fact that there is more freedom in a game based on freedom makes it better. I have only been playing since Morrowind and can say without a doubt in my mind that it is just better. Skyrim is short. Too short. You can beat most of the guild story lines in 3-4 hours without even trying. The main story is no exception. Sure I may get to look at a vast landscape but what does that matter? I don't care for graphics. I care for gameplay mechanics and story. This games story sucked. Aside from the magic the mechanics have all been done, and better, in other games. Alchemy is now only capable at specific areas as is Enchanting? Seems fine to me. That would be your "Safe House" of an FPS. The game was mediocre at best. The guards and towns people constantly repeated themselves and the "Epic" fights weren't even close to that.

The game was awful. This isn't because I hate Bethesda. This is because I don't allow "From the creators who brought you ____" to mess with my view of a game.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here