New Console Generation Brings Fear

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8-Bit_Jack:

Treblaine:

"Which means that they have to pick a minimum level of support, and make it work for that."

That's simply not true, games DO run better on better hardware. Not at the same level as the lowest supported hardware. Games run better on a GTX280 than on a 7800GT. Better framerate, resolution, AA, world-settings, etc.

Consoles have to be cross platform to be profitable due to how much of each target market is split between PS3 and 360, though I suppose that could change, though on PC side there is no great split as Mac owners don't seem to be the gaming type. And the differences between PS3 and 360 are HUGE, as I can attest from the explanation of how different they are on the most basic level of the OS. PS3 is Unix based, while 360 is based on Windows coding architecture. That's before even the fundamental and hardware differences of multiple small SPEs and how the memory is divided up.

"And I never complained about using a keyboard once."

Well you did:

"A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard"

You complained about how people are put off by it, I never alleged you personally were put off by it, you alleged others were. But I guarantee you, it's far easier to explain the concepts of circle strafing and such with discrete keys than a thumbstick as I have experimented subjecting complete novices to gaming to different controller inputs. Keyboard is an incredibly capable gaming interface.

"you neglected to even TRY to refute, which is the inherent added difficulty of game apparatus acquisition on PC"

You never actually said that beyond complaining about how hard it is to pick a keyboard and mouse... which aren't exactly the hardest choices. And I guarantee you within your area there is a computer repair shop that will build a gaming rig for your for a flat fee and get a good deal on the components. I work in one of these computer repair shops not in a major city but a quiet town and I'm business contact with computer repair shops of each town over north south and southwest. You can easily find out online what components you want or you can just buy a pre-built PC.

You're an idiot too.
YES games run better on better software, BUT THERE IS A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT THAT MUST BE MET. Developers have to set a minimum, that often is out of reach of people that don't constantly upgrade hardware. They don't build a game then have it magically work everywhere.

Console games have to be multiplatform to be profitable, huh? Is that why Halo, Uncharted, Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Fable, Gears of War, God of War, Forza, and many, many others were financial failures that never got any sequels made?

Saying that PEOPLE, other than myself, are put off by keyboard controls, is not complaining. Don't try to fudge language to weasel out of being wrong.

Keyboarding IS a good means of gameplay, in many instances, but that doesnt change the fact that many people ARE INTIMIDATED BY IT and would rather use a dedicated game-controlling item. Which brings me to the last point:
"You never actually said that beyond complaining about how hard it is to pick a keyboard and mouse... which aren't exactly the hardest choices"
That isnt what I said AT ALL. I was SPECIFICALLY talking about pc controllers, joysticks, and other such items. Your computer COMES with a keyboard and mouse. No one that isnt already semi-familiar with computers is going to look for replacements for them unless one breaks. And again, NOT COMPLAINING. You really need to learn what complaining is. If I were saying that I had trouble finding them, THEN it would be complaining. However, as stated previously, I use a keyboard and mouse anyway, so for me it's a non-issue.

Your last point brings up something else i FORGOT to mention, and that's the added annoyance of keeping up with all the details of PC use. You have to keep track of serial numbers, software versions, hardware specs (AND REQUIREMENTS), and lately, mountains of DRM. That's a lot of work that MANY people dont want to bother with.

oh, and one last thing... "Yet he DID, by the time you posted that Idiot allegation he had provides sources (in another reply stream_ and you haven't."
WHAT?!
Ignoring the issue of grammar, as I dont claim to have the best by any means, I don't know what the hell you're on about. Matthew doesnt need to PROVIDE sources, because he ASKED for them, in a manner that made it clear HE did not believe evidence to support the prior post existed. Which it does. That's why he's an idiot, because he chose to be self-assuredly confident that his opponent had no leg upon which to stand, without ever bothering to look at the facts.

you seem to believe I am saying console gaming is somehow BETTER than PC, and getting confused. I'm saying that many people PREFER console gaming, and listed several points as to WHY that would be, and why consoles are going to stick around for a while

You are a bad forum user labelling everyone you disagree with an idiot. Attack the argument, not the fellow user.

Why your IDEAS and arguments are wrong:

You can still play most of the latest games on 2007 vintage hardware (2007 the year when PS3 came out in Europe) such as:

http://www.swtor.com/info/faq#171060
http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=1400&game=modern%20warfare%203

Complaining about being unable to run said games on 2003 hardware is equivalent of complaining you can't play Playstation 3 games on a Playstation 2!

"Halo, Uncharted, Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Fable, Gears of War, God of War, Forza, and many, many others were financial failures"

All first-party games. Sony would NEVER release Uncharted on a Microsoft System, nor would Microsoft release games they produced on Sony platforms. They didn't do as well as the ycould have done if they'd been multi platform but these games are "system sellers" their purpose is to convince people to buy one system over another.

Microsoft would allow their games on Microsoft windows and they subsequently HAVE by making Fable 1 & 3 as well as Gears 1 on PC. But PC gamers hated Gears for various reasons so didn't bother with sequels. Alan Wake was exclusive, now it's on PC.

"many people ARE INTIMIDATED BY KEYBOARDS"

Prove it.

"That's a lot of work that MANY people dont want to bother with."

Yes, and you don't have to bother with it. There are affordable and even free services that do all that for you.

"without ever bothering to look at the facts."

Matthew has done more than look at the facts, he has presented them for you.

People are more than capable of PC gaming, billions of people use PCs every without any effort. The difference is console's marketing.

Consoles had an advantage with disc-based bone-simplicity but that has been exploited by excessive re-trading to make that an insufficiently viable format while PC are now arguably MORE convenient with Steam functioning like iTunes for your games.

MelasZepheos:
SNIP

So does that mean you DO need one for multiplayer?

Oh? The Luddites are finally embracing stuff we've had for years?

Oh my. Next they'll Physx and Tessellation.

WALL OF QUOTES BELOW, WARNING!

---------------------------------------------

Jump on the PC bandwagon now and you won't be a hipster or elitist, guaranteed. I don't think Microsoft or Sony realize how important a console generation cycle is for the hardware or programming and making the titles for the system.

You can't surpass a limitation, only trick the machine into doing something it didn't want to do, and the more tricks at work mean the more possible bugs, programming errors, crashes and many other equally damaging occurrences if they don't properly iron out everything.

Like I said before, I'll say it again. Sony and Microsoft know absolutely nothing when it comes to the console generation cycle, all it knows is that if it keeps selling then it will stay on the market.

Matthew94:

You say that but I have yet to see any of these elitests in the thread yet you have brought them up.

Care to point them out?

What? Go off-topic? Piss off a bunch of people and shove them over to your side so you don't have to go this alone? So you won't have to undergo the strenuous of continuing of attempting to explain, with an actually valid argument, how I hate all P.C. owners? Without any proof?

Sure, why not?

Some jerk:
image

The indie scene on PC is flourishing, let the consoles burn for all I care. Then all those delicious exclusives can be enjoyed by a greater audience and won't be held back by archaic hardware.

This guy seems unpleasant, writing all console and console owners off as inferior for no real reason, besides the fact that they have poor hardware. Which obviously removes any fun or artistic integrity from the experiences on them. And we all know those indie developers can't function unless they're using the latest physics and AA in 5900x1080.

Oh hang on, did I just throw down the gauntlet? Did I? Did I really? Naughty!

Well, since I have, why don't we do this?

Go on. Hit me with whatever logic you can muster up. One minute, without deviation, hesitation or repetition to explain from the evidence of my posts why I am clearly an asshole hating on all P.C. owners and calling them elitists. PROTIP: successfully arguing that you aren't one and therefore and attacking me because I called you out on being one is the first step to this.

Well, go on then! Haven't got all day, y'know.

trollpwner:

Matthew94:

You say that but I have yet to see any of these elitests in the thread yet you have brought them up.

Care to point them out?

What? Go off-topic? Piss off a bunch of people and shove them over to your side so you don't have to go this alone? So you won't have to undergo the strenuous of continuing of attempting to explain, with an actually valid argument, how I hate all P.C. owners? Without any proof?

Sure, why not?

Some jerk:
image

The indie scene on PC is flourishing, let the consoles burn for all I care. Then all those delicious exclusives can be enjoyed by a greater audience and won't be held back by archaic hardware.

This guy seems unpleasant, writing all console and console owners off as inferior for no real reason, besides the fact that they have poor hardware. Which obviously removes any fun or artistic integrity from the experiences on them. And we all know those indie developers can't function unless they're using the latest physics and AA in 5900x1080.

Oh hang on, did I just throw down the gauntlet? Did I? Did I really? Naughty!

Well, since I have, why don't we do this?

Go on. Hit me with whatever logic you can muster up. One minute, without deviation, hesitation or repetition to explain from the evidence of my posts why I am clearly an asshole hating on all P.C. owners and calling them elitists. PROTIP: successfully arguing that you aren't one and therefore and attacking me because I called you out on being one is the first step to this.

Well, go on then! Haven't got all day, y'know.

"writing all console and console owners"

When did I mention console owners?

Saying I said things that I didn't just reduces the legitimacy of your points and calling me a jerk is uncalled for.

"and attacking me because I called you out "

Why should I attack you? That just means you cannot provide a sufficient argument and have to resort to insults, just like did. I shall not stoop to your level.

Matthew94:

"writing all console and console owners"

When did I mention console owners?

Saying I said things that I didn't just reduces the legitimacy of your points and calling me a jerk is uncalled for.

"and attacking me because I called you out "

Why should I attack you? That just means you cannot provide a sufficient argument and have to resort to insults, just like did. I shall not stoop to your level.

No, please don't sink to my level! Please! That won't end well. Avoid my mistakes of using reasoned arguments and proof to create an argument! Especially don't try and defend previous points you've made. Just mumble something about me resorting to insults and run away. Yeah, that should work.

Seriously, you said that "consoles should die" and that "P.C.'s have a 'greater' audience". You really can't fight your way out of looking like an elitist if you won't at least qualify these statements...

Although props for giving up the baseless accusations of my being a blanket P.C. hater. At this rate, you might be able to give a reasoned argument in about a week or so.

trollpwner:

Matthew94:

"writing all console and console owners"

When did I mention console owners?

Saying I said things that I didn't just reduces the legitimacy of your points and calling me a jerk is uncalled for.

"and attacking me because I called you out "

Why should I attack you? That just means you cannot provide a sufficient argument and have to resort to insults, just like did. I shall not stoop to your level.

No, please don't sink to my level! Please! That won't end well. Avoid my mistakes of using reasoned arguments and proof to create an argument! Especially don't try and defend previous points you've made. Just mumble something about me resorting to insults and run away. Yeah, that should work.

Seriously, you said that "consoles should die" and that "P.C.'s have a 'greater' audience". You really can't fight your way out of looking like an elitist if you won't at least qualify these statements...

Although props for giving up the baseless accusations of my being a blanket P.C. hater. At this rate, you might be able to give a reasoned argument in about a week or so.

I said "let them die" not "I want them to die", don't put words in my mouth. The 2 phrases have different meanings.

By greater audience I meant larger in number. If games were not exclusive then a larger amount of people could play them, hence a greater audience.

You did resort to insults by calling me a jerk, I never insulted you. And for your "reasoned arguments" all you have really done so far is show a lack of literacy (greater audience) and have twisted my words (consoles should die).

Matthew94:

I said "let them die" not "I want them to die", don't put words in my mouth. The 2 phrases have different meanings.

By greater audience I meant larger in number. If games were not exclusive then a larger amount of people could play them, hence a greater audience.

You did resort to insults by calling me a jerk, I never insulted you. And for your "reasoned arguments" all you have really done so far is show a lack of literacy (greater audience) and have twisted my words (consoles should die).

Right. Glad to see we've moved on from you accusing me of hating all P.C. owners for good. And now....you're arguing that "let them die" and "I want them to die" mean two different things? Brilliant. You couldn't make this kind of thing up. You're not an elitist, but the consoles have got to go to make anything better.

While this itself doesn't make you much of an elitist, let's look at my original post:

trollpwner:
Yay! Let the elitism and mindless hatred begiiiiiin! Wooooo!

Maybe if P.C. elitists want to be called "the master race" they should start acting like one instead of 13-year-old fanboys who fly into a fit of rage every time someone mentions the world "console".

Yeah, I know the hardware is better. I own one. It's pretty sweet. It doesn't make console games invalid and it certainly doesn't make every console owner a retard. Rrrrrr.....

Why do you feel the need to attack this??? It's aimed solely against elitists. Elitists! People who say that console owners are inferior and nobody else! You have, as previously established, been unable to refute this point and therefore, by attacking me, only show yourself to be uncomfortable with people calling out elitists for their actions, thereby implying that you are one.

So, let's re-establish this once and for all:

Why did you feel the need to attack me for calling out elitists when you can't prove that I was attacking anyone else?

There. Done.

trollpwner:

Matthew94:

I said "let them die" not "I want them to die", don't put words in my mouth. The 2 phrases have different meanings.

By greater audience I meant larger in number. If games were not exclusive then a larger amount of people could play them, hence a greater audience.

You did resort to insults by calling me a jerk, I never insulted you. And for your "reasoned arguments" all you have really done so far is show a lack of literacy (greater audience) and have twisted my words (consoles should die).

Right. Glad to see we've moved on from you accusing me of hating all P.C. owners for good. And now....you're arguing that "let them die" and "I want them to die" mean two different things? Brilliant. You couldn't make this kind of thing up. You're not an elitist, but the consoles have got to go to make anything better.

While this itself doesn't make you much of an elitist, let's look at my original post:

trollpwner:
Yay! Let the elitism and mindless hatred begiiiiiin! Wooooo!

Maybe if P.C. elitists want to be called "the master race" they should start acting like one instead of 13-year-old fanboys who fly into a fit of rage every time someone mentions the world "console".

Yeah, I know the hardware is better. I own one. It's pretty sweet. It doesn't make console games invalid and it certainly doesn't make every console owner a retard. Rrrrrr.....

Why do you feel the need to attack this??? It's aimed solely against elitists. Elitists! People who say that console owners are inferior and nobody else! You have, as previously established, been unable to refute this point and therefore, by attacking me, only show yourself to be uncomfortable with people calling out elitists for their actions, thereby implying that you are one.

So, let's re-establish this once and for all:

Why did you feel the need to attack me for calling out elitists when you can't prove that I was attacking anyone else?

There. Done.

I haven't attacked you, in fact it is you who is the "attacker" by insulting me.

"let them die" and "I want them to die" are two different phrases.

Well for your original post, yeah. I'll admit that I cannot truly refute it.

My annoyance for it came not from the words themselves but from you as a person. I remember you made a thread before about PC gaming, people made well thought out statements and used sources to back their points and you fell back on the "elitests" argument, I simply see you doing this again while you may not have in reality.

That's what I have to say on that.

This probably looks like a victory to you, if you think it is I assure you it is purely pyrrhic. Your style of debate is pretty immature and it makes you look pretty childish, I doubt you are older than 15, if I'm wrong please inform me.

By immature I mean the use of phrases like this.

"Oh hang on, did I just throw down the gauntlet? Did I? Did I really? Naughty!"

"*sniggers*"

"Hee hee hee.... "

Calling me a jerk

They don't lend themselves well to rational debate.

Oh, looking back at the post you made. The master race thing was a joke by Yahtzee, saying elitests want to be called that makes you look ignorant and misinformed.

Now I wait for the next post that ignores most of my points, attacks me, acts childish and assumes victory.

Harker067:
Honestly I care less about the power of the consoles chips and more about the quality of their games. The one doesn't really lead to the other.

They do, unless you want more buggy games. While from a consumer standpoint you shouldn't care about what its made of as long as its doing its job to satisfaction, but it is easier to design for more open ended tech.

I guess a classic way of showing that you do need a newer generation is how much space the gun takes up in a FPS like Call of Duty. If you notice, its about 20 or 40 percent of the bottom right or left corners of the screen. Their not just doing that because it looks good, their doing it so they don't have to render whats underneath the gun on screen. It also might be the reason the knife is a button, and not a weapon that you can equip. I'd also like to point out that it is locked, on both the PC and Console at thirty frames per second, which is lower then a more acceptable sixty frames per second. I think without this trick it would be hurting to go over ten frames a second.

The Xbox 360 is so old now that it chugs when ever you play anything new on it. Holding back a generation of consoles can hurt the developers programming and making the game more then it will hurt your bottom line.
[/quote]

And you're probably talking to the wrong person entirely or if nothing less at a cross point. I'm actually a big fan of a number of notoriously buggy games (Vampire the masquerade bloodlines for example). The issue with frame rate 60 vs 30 is to me not a big point. To be honest I'm not a graphics junkie I don't care too much about how the game looks.

The increasing expense of making games with more realistic graphics is a bigger worry to me.
My concerns about the next console generation has more to do with the increased cost of making games hampering creativity and leading to a more play it safe market.

I'll wait for the slimmer, quieter and functionaly neutered version of the next-gen consoles before I even bother looking at what's out.

Dreamcast was the last console I bothered buying at/close to release. Got a PS2 after it was dead and bought my first 360 a few months ago. I'll buy a PS3 for Valkyria Chronicles and one or two more titles a few years from now when the console sells for or under $100.

Man, it seems kindergarten allowed access to internet

Sega is better
No, Nintendo is better
No, Sega
No, Nintendo
You smell like poop
[punch]
I'll tell my mom
etc.

C'mon guys (and some girls I presume) are you adults, or what?
Every platform have it's advantages and disadvantages
Consoles have advantage of being simple, you put disc in and play (after some forced updates), while on the downside it gives worse performance
PC have advantage of giving better performance, while being more complex and expensive (at least in the very beginning of console life cycle, now it isn't exactly true)

Keyboard/mouse vs. controller is argument of tastes and preferences
Yes, I myself prefer keyboard/mouse combo for gaming, but controller is better for some games
Just play last level of Psychonauts (Meat Circus) with keyboard and mouse (It was hard)
Later I replayed it with controller and it was almost cakewalk (I disagree with Mrs. Arendt- this level is ok, it simply tests all your skills that you acquired through the game)

As for new console cycle, it's about time
Old hardware of consoles (tiny RAM especially) is the main reason, why cities are enclosed in TES4 and TES5 (and it pisses me off, as I am long time TES fan)
Also, console without bluray reader is total BS (X360 I'm looking at you >:( )

8-Bit_Jack:

Matthew94:

ablac:
Take consolles out of the equation and a lot of the games you enjoy simply wouldnt get made.

Do you have any evidence to back up your point?

Um, how about the fact that gaming PCs are STILL more expensive than consoles, and people are more willing to buy a dedicated game player than they are a computer. A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard, and since any controllers are necessarily third-party, people have to put in twice as much effort to get one that works. It's also easier for developers to build to standardized technical schematics, rather than having to guess what the best average of current computing hardware amongst the masses, which is why MANY console games dont make it onto PC...

To sum up, you're an idiot.

gaming PC with the same processing power than, say, eggsbox, is infact cheaper. what we call "gaming pc" now is much more powerful, therefore it is logical that it is more expensive.
the fact that people want to buy a plug-to-tv console more than a computer is either a lack of knowledge or mental problems.
keyboard and mouse are far superior than any controller ever made. if you plug controller into PC your doing it backwards. infact people plug mouses into PS3s now. Too bad they only work in menus. OFC it is easier for developers to build on a standardized 7 year old system. that means they can just do 1/6th of the job and then claim the console cant run the rest (cough, dust514, cough). The hardware on PC is standartized enough. They seem to have no problem making cheap ports so it cant be that hard.
as for the buyers perspective, local shops always offer ready-to-work computer models that may not be 100% optimal, can be just brought home, plugged in and your ready to go.
to sum it up, well, you read your own.

You know, I don't really want to get into this whole argument, because I think that the thread has become completely derailed, but before I comment about the actual ARTICLE I just want to throw this out there:

I have a lot of fun playing Halo, Fable, Skyrim etc on my XBox 360, I also have fun on Mount and Blade: Warband and Realm of the mad god when I'm on my PC.
I personally prefer playing on my xbox because I have more fun on there playing with my friends, it is a more social experience, a part of gaming that the PC crowd doesn't seem to partake in as much.

If anyone doubts me on whether I am just a sour "console scrub" (as I have been repeatedly called whenever I try to enjoy a game of TF2) just check my profile here, I have my steam and XBL playercards listed, I have spent many hours playing on both platforms, I just have more fun on the Xbox, and there is nothing wrong with that.

On topic.

I don't think we should be really worried about the new generations, quite frankly M$ and Sony have done more than enough this gen to canonise them as good service providers who know what they are doing when they are making hardware, the Xbox live service can only improve, and anything that allows it to do that I will be happy with.

Better graphics are, of course, always a plus, I cannot wait to see what fancy next gen tech looks like, as the opportunity to play Halo 5 with even H'er D's is something that sounds amazing to me.

With regards to the indie marketplace, as some have already pointed out, some games are simply not available on live or the PSN yet, and those that are may not have sold at the rate of AAA titles, but who is really expecting them to? (with the obvious exception of the likes of Virgillio Armarndio)
I am not surprised that the sales on the PC outstrip LIVE/PSN sales, because the crowd of gamers is completely different on consoles to PC, but arty types who own consoles ARE STILL provided for on consoles, it would be far simpler for M$/Sony to have saved development costs on a digital distribution platform for indie games (and not even bother developing their own indie game development software let us not forget!) and instead funneled that money into... I dunno MOAR AAA GAMES.

I think it seems to be all or nothing with both the "All games MUST be art crowd" and the "PC is the ONLY way to play games!" crowd, the fact that a platform is there for younger indie dev's to produce and, in some cases, flourish on the live marketplace is more than enough for me, look at Ska studios, developer of "the dishwasher" and "the dishwasher: vampire smile", two very simple, very FUN games that were one of the early success stories of the Xbox live indie games development platform, that success would not have happened if these programs were not made available and M$ did not go into the effort to pimp it on their platform as much as they did.

Simply put, people should be having fun, if they are not, then they are doing this whole "gaming" thing wrong. That is why Braid didn't sell as well on live as it did to the PC crowd, people who pay for games on live, pay for a fun experience, Braid was not close to that, the sort of people who would pay money for an experience like Braid, who would rather saw off their nether regions and cauterise the wound with an overheated motherboard chip, primarily populate steam, and by extenion the escapist

Strazdas:

8-Bit_Jack:

Matthew94:

Do you have any evidence to back up your point?

Um, how about the fact that gaming PCs are STILL more expensive than consoles, and people are more willing to buy a dedicated game player than they are a computer. A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard, and since any controllers are necessarily third-party, people have to put in twice as much effort to get one that works. It's also easier for developers to build to standardized technical schematics, rather than having to guess what the best average of current computing hardware amongst the masses, which is why MANY console games dont make it onto PC...

To sum up, you're an idiot.

gaming PC with the same processing power than, say, eggsbox, is infact cheaper. what we call "gaming pc" now is much more powerful, therefore it is logical that it is more expensive.
the fact that people want to buy a plug-to-tv console more than a computer is either a lack of knowledge or mental problems.
keyboard and mouse are far superior than any controller ever made. if you plug controller into PC your doing it backwards. infact people plug mouses into PS3s now. Too bad they only work in menus. OFC it is easier for developers to build on a standardized 7 year old system. that means they can just do 1/6th of the job and then claim the console cant run the rest (cough, dust514, cough). The hardware on PC is standartized enough. They seem to have no problem making cheap ports so it cant be that hard.
as for the buyers perspective, local shops always offer ready-to-work computer models that may not be 100% optimal, can be just brought home, plugged in and your ready to go.
to sum it up, well, you read your own.

Go away and start a little commune with treblaine. I've just stopped caring

As an artist, I can't wait to start developing for new hardware.

Matthew94:

I haven't attacked you, in fact it is you who is the "attacker" by insulting me.

"let them die" and "I want them to die" are two different phrases.

Y'know what I said about that not necessarily being elitist? I take that back. Seriously. Saying that something should be left to die indicates that you consider it worthless. And your only argument for this is that they have "inferior hardware". So you are really an elitist if you take that line.

[BTW, if inferior hardware means a platform is worthless, does that mean I have to throw out my old P.C. and the games on that? Is any game that doesn't use the latest engine, shaders and physics also inferior and worthless and in need of being left to die? It's one to think over.]

Well for your original post, yeah. I'll admit that I cannot truly refute it.

So....your entire argument was based on....what exactly? If you can't say why that post wasn't about anything except elitists, then surely by attacking it, that's some fairly damning evidence that you are an elitist yourself? Sorry, I'll let you continue.

My annoyance for it came not from the words themselves but from you as a person. I remember you made a thread before about PC gaming, people made well thought out statements and used sources to back their points and you fell back on the "elitests" argument, I simply see you doing this again while you may not have in reality.

So....your argument was based on what you percieved I was saying from a guess about my personality? Not on what I was actually saying? You projected your impression of me over any of my attempts to argue and use logic or reason? Really? Can you imagine what would happen to someone if they did that in their professional career?

"Sorry he's dead. They said there was something wrong with his heart, but I took one look at him and knew it was his kidneys"

"Nah mate, you don't need an extension to your house. It looks like you'll be just fine with a collapsed porch"

"Well, as the judge in this case, I would say he looks a bit funny and give him the death penalty"

And if I take this halfway seriously, the 'post' that you base this on, once again, specifically aims its comments at elitists only and those who call themselves elitists, and not all P.C. owners. I mean, if it really badgers you that much, here's the original post:


This really is pointing towards you being an elitist who attacks anyone who tries to call you out on it. If you can't show that I'm going after all P.C. owners instead of elitists, you haven't a leg to stand on.

That's what I have to say on that.

This probably looks like a victory to you, if you think it is I assure you it is purely pyrrhic. Your style of debate is pretty immature and it makes you look pretty childish, I doubt you are older than 15, if I'm wrong please inform me.

By immature I mean the use of phrases like this.

"Oh hang on, did I just throw down the gauntlet? Did I? Did I really? Naughty!"

"*sniggers*"

"Hee hee hee.... "

Calling me a jerk

They don't lend themselves well to rational debate.

Oh, looking back at the post you made. The master race thing was a joke by Yahtzee, saying elitests want to be called that makes you look ignorant and misinformed.

Now I wait for the next post that ignores most of my points, attacks me, acts childish and assumes victory.

Oh...the whole "immature" thing. Really? Really? I expected better. Well if you want to stick to that tired, old desperate argument I won't stop you, but remember which one of us started posting in this thread with a plea against elitism and mindless discrimination and which one of us jumped in with a big picture shouting "LET THEM DIE!".

Although having said, that takes me nicely onto what might well be my final point in the matter: that you can't seem to focus on what I'm saying and are taking every excuse to change the topic. Declare endless vengance because the nawsty man cawwed you a jewk, cry unto heaven about how the term "P.C. gamer master race" is misused and even undertake the steronian task of complaining about how silly this sentence is, but at the end of the day, it doesn't change the fact that you have so far failed to explain, in any reasonable way, how saying that consoles should be left to die for inferior hardware doesn't make you an elitist. Neither, for that matter, have you created any compelling proof of how I am 'clearly' hating on all P.C. owners instead of the elitists alone that I claim, time and time again, to be targeting. Finally, you have yet to explain why you are attacking me for any other reason that feeling wronged for being called out on being an elitist.

So, there you are. The challenge once and for all: either explain to me, in clear terms, based on logical evidence from what I *SAY* why I am targeting all P.C. owners and you are justified in attacking me, or don't bother replying at all. Because, if you can't do that, all you are doing is sidling away from the main point I'm making and, by extension, implying that you are an elitist in the process. If you're going to keep mumbling something about how me *sniggering* or humorously using the word "jerk" invalidates my arguments and means you don't have to answer my point, it's a waste of my time and yours and I certainly won't be replying.

Just answer my points and try to create a discussion based on evidence and proof or don't bother replying at all.

trollpwner:
snip

>Takes 2 days to respond
>Essentially CTRL+Vs the argument

image

Yeah, I can see where this argument is heading.

DVS BSTrD:
May the weak perish swiftly.
image

Lol, complain all you want, but the Wii won this generation's console war by a long shot.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see just how outdated the new consoles are at release and seeing the next mark at which the industry will be stifled at for the next decade.

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