Child's Play Halts Retake Mass Effect Donation Drive

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Ha! Called it! Though, kind of surprised it took this long. Knew it would put Child's Play in a tight spot, since it almost causes an ethical problem of making them biased towards trying to push Bioware to change the ending in response to the donations.

I really do hope that they don't Redo the ending for Mass Effect. What I am hoping is for them to add onto the ending. Nothing Major just just something to explain what actually happened at the end. Cause I'm a supporter of the Indoctrination theory. It would explain a lot of the issues I had with the ending.

If they really had that in mind when doing that ending I'd like to have conformation on it and then show what really happened to Shepard. Even if it's just showing that the reapers won and the cycle continues on.

Caramel Frappe:
...
The people who donated that want their money back despite that it's going towards the children,...

I actually think that this is pretty reasonable and it explains why getting a refund is actually justifiable:

victoriakm:
We'll just have to disagree on this one. I sit on two non-profit boards. If we were to ask a group to NOT raise funds for us, we would at the same time return anything they had already brought in.

Because the only time we would make such a request would be if the group raising the funds were not in line with our morals/values.

Otherwise, we'd be thankful for the money.

You can accept funds without it being interpreted as support for a cause. The only cause non-profits support is the one in their mission statement.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9845819/229#10481951

Burnhardt:
...As Tycho said in his post on the PA webiste "Child's Play cannot be a tool to draw attention to a cause. Child's Play must be the Cause."
....

That is complete bullshit what Tycho says there. If that was true, why did they allow Bioware to use Child's Play to draw attention to a fucking videogame??? Bioware used Child's Play to advertise a game. That is much, much worse than whatever he thinks Retake Mass Effect did. He is lying to you.

Scrythe:

Tycho:
[Child's Play] has been asked what the goal is, and how much they need to raise in order to get the ending produced. We've also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back. This is in addition to readers who simply couldn't understand how this was connected to Child's Play's mission. We were dealing with a lot of very confused people, more every day, and that told us we had a problem.

That alone is fucking disgusting. I cannot believe I'm a part of a community full of whiny, entitled, and egotistical assholes. For years, we've been struggling with the stigma that gamers, as a whole, are hopeless losers who are prone to violence and childish behavior, and here we are proving them right.

Penny Arcade's Child's Play (and by extension, Desert Bus) has been one of the greatest and most wholesome thing to come out of the gaming community, and has really helped quell the image that we're mindless slaves to "murder simulators", and just because a single AAA game had a sub-par ending, the gaming community managed to turn this into a fucking circus. Donate because you want to help Child's Play, not because your unwarranted self-importance demands that you somehow deserve a better ending simply because you may or may not have actually purchased the product.

I'm sick of this attitude. It needs to fucking stop. No other medium of entertainment stoops so low as to make petitions and campaigns over such trivial bullshit.

You don't see people sending death threats to Michael Bay's personal phones in response to Transformers.

You don't see people making massive online petitions to boycott Eoin Colfer's And Another Thing... or Brian Herbert's Sisterhood of Dune.

You don't see people withdrawing their donations from a food drive because they wanted a different ending to The Sopranos.

We're supposed to show the world that we're much more mature than this, and instead we're turning into another self-indulgent internet mob.

Go fuck yourselves

Thank you for more thoroughly expressing why my back has snapped than I probably could.

I'd elaborate, but I don't like using six hundred profanities per sentence.

Toilet:
People are fucking idiots and need to read into what they are putting their money in.

Fuck everyone.

I wouldn't even have had to in this case. All I would have to do is look at the name and think, "Hmm, something tells me that this doesn't have anything to do with rated M video games." >_>

Kashrlyyk:

Caramel Frappe:
...
The people who donated that want their money back despite that it's going towards the children,...

I actually think that this is pretty reasonable and it explains why getting a refund is actually justifiable:

victoriakm:
We'll just have to disagree on this one. I sit on two non-profit boards. If we were to ask a group to NOT raise funds for us, we would at the same time return anything they had already brought in.

Because the only time we would make such a request would be if the group raising the funds were not in line with our morals/values.

Otherwise, we'd be thankful for the money.

You can accept funds without it being interpreted as support for a cause. The only cause non-profits support is the one in their mission statement.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/9845819/229#10481951

Burnhardt:
...As Tycho said in his post on the PA webiste "Child's Play cannot be a tool to draw attention to a cause. Child's Play must be the Cause."
....

That is complete bullshit what Tycho says there. If that was true, why did they allow Bioware to use Child's Play to draw attention to a fucking videogame??? Bioware used Child's Play to advertise a game. That is much, much worse than whatever he thinks Retake Mass Effect did. He is lying to you.

Are you dense? They didn't "allow Bioware to use Child's Play to draw attention to a fucking videogame," they used the Bioware advertising to draw attention to Child's Play. Do you honestly fucking think that anyone who knows what Child's Play is wouldn't already know what *EVERY BIOWARE GAME FOR THE NEXT DECADE* is going to be?

^This post is my Hero for the day.

Mr. Omega:

OT:

Despite the belief among some supporters that the end of the donation drive was somehow engineered by game journalists in support of EA

So since when exactly did all of gaming journalism become the bad guys? Is this a new thing or have I just been not paying attention?

You seem to be a reasonable guy who hangs around the Escapist forums a fair bit. It seems odd that you haven't at least scoped the "paid off by EA" tirade against Susan when she gave Mass Effect 3 four-and-a-half stars out of five in her review. :P

The internet got all cynical this decade.

The fear of a "Slippery slope" is well justified on Child Plays part. The ability to give a galvanizing shield to your cause simply by attaching it to a charity is terrifying. I can see many in the thread repeatedly mentioning how good it is that they managed to raise $80K. Even when we know the Retake Mass Effect campaign had nothing to do with the charity, it is impossible to turn down that much money for children. This allows the fans behind it to feel completely justified in their actions regardless of any other consequences.

I am glad that Child's Play thought to protect themselves by putting a stop to it.

Scrythe:
snip

image

Also, don't compare videogames to movies/books. Apples and oranges and such. Stop being so freaking rude.

dreadedcandiru99:

Andy Chalk:
"We've also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back."

What?

I want the ending fixed as much as anyone else, but this kind of shit is not helping our case. To whoever did this: thanks for making us all look like the entitled asshats IGN keeps claiming we are.

Agreed, I gave my fifty dollars in the complete understanding that I was "donating" to Child's Play. I knew what I donating to, I knew why I did it, and I knew that my intentions weren't malicious. I simply donated because it was a way to send a message and to give to an excellent cause. But to hear that it was shut down simply because some asshats didn't read the goddamn memo that was so clearly in front of them?

Yeah, I smell political bias from Penny Arcade and it wreaks. Jesus, all this over a poorly written ending. *Raises glass* This ones for you Bioware, without you who else would we have to blame?

Scrythe:

Tycho:
[Child's Play] has been asked what the goal is, and how much they need to raise in order to get the ending produced. We've also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back. This is in addition to readers who simply couldn't understand how this was connected to Child's Play's mission. We were dealing with a lot of very confused people, more every day, and that told us we had a problem.

That alone is fucking disgusting. I cannot believe I'm a part of a community full of whiny, entitled, and egotistical assholes. For years, we've been struggling with the stigma that gamers, as a whole, are hopeless losers who are prone to violence and childish behavior, and here we are proving them right.

Penny Arcade's Child's Play (and by extension, Desert Bus) has been one of the greatest and most wholesome thing to come out of the gaming community, and has really helped quell the image that we're mindless slaves to "murder simulators", and just because a single AAA game had a sub-par ending, the gaming community managed to turn this into a fucking circus. Donate because you want to help Child's Play, not because your unwarranted self-importance demands that you somehow deserve a better ending simply because you may or may not have actually purchased the product.

I'm sick of this attitude. It needs to fucking stop. No other medium of entertainment stoops so low as to make petitions and campaigns over such trivial bullshit.

You don't see people sending death threats to Michael Bay's personal phones in response to Transformers.

You don't see people making massive online petitions to boycott Eoin Colfer's And Another Thing... or Brian Herbert's Sisterhood of Dune.

You don't see people withdrawing their donations from a food drive because they wanted a different ending to The Sopranos.

We're supposed to show the world that we're much more mature than this, and instead we're turning into another self-indulgent internet mob.

Go fuck yourselves

Thank you very much for saying this so I wont have to.

Oh look! Angry fan-brats managed to fuck up a good thing. Again!

It's good to see the 80 grand going to a good cause, but the whole thing feels bittersweet knowing there were people who thought they were donating to get a new ending to a game and then bitched and demanded their money back when they found out it was actually going to helping sick kids.

This makes me just a teeny, tiny bit ashamed to be part of the ME fandom. Even if I didn't have anything to do with this, and haven't been stirring up any shit about the end of ME3. And my general efforts to not be an entitled tit. That's sort of impressive in a very depressing way.

This is just depressing, I was fine with the ending to ME3, though I've got my problems with it, I'm not going to sign any petitions. That said, some people were finding a productive way of airing their grievances and it sucks for them that they can't do that because of the ignorance of some within their ranks.

The whole conspiracy theory angle is awful as well, I would not be surprised if there's overlap between those who are asking for their donations back and those who think this was shut down by some shadowy cabal of journalists and corporations aligned to destroy them, personally. There's no conspiracy, don't be surprised that IGN writes crappy stories, they're IGN, that is what they do. Threatening to withhold future money from a good cause, as some in this thread have done, because they had to red-light something that was opening a bad door, is cartoonishly petty.

Let me just float my own personal reason for not demanding a new ending to ME3. First of all, Mass Effect has always been strongest when dealing with characters, that is BioWare's strong suit. The character moments in that game were worth the price of admission alone, and if you actually take the time to digest the ending on your own, I think most people will be fine with it, disappointed in some things, but largely okay with the experience.

So we've got a group of people who are saying, effectively (I'm being deliberately reductive because I want to match how it would sound to a writer) "No, you shat the bed, take it back. Don't get to work on a new project, you have to go and clean up your mess. For free, now. Do it, do it, and smile for daddy."

It shouldn't be surprising that the community of professional writers who cover these stories find your argument entitled. To them, this is the the height of entitlement. Its not that you're wrong, and its not that they're wrong, you're just all looking at this from different angles.

Finally, you've seen how fickle the gaming community can be, you know that if they change the ending a significant portion of you are still not going to be satisfied.

If they charge for it (which they will, after all they're not working for free here), a large and very vocal group will up the volume demanding that the price be removed, decrying it as an example of yet more EA/BioWare greed, etc.

Then there are the people who won't be satisfied with whatever BioWare does, because it won't match their very specific demands. They'll yell and complain that BioWare went too far or not far enough in any alterations.

Then there's always the possibility that if they cave and make it free, and if it satisfies everyone within your movement, you know that some BioWare apologists will yell about tyranny of the minority, a new, changed ending that they didn't ask for being foisted upon them because of a few malcontents.

And what if any new ending is worse than what they gave you the first time around? Are you going to ask them to change it again? At what point does this stop? Its entirely possible that this was the best they could do, not laziness just plain lack of ability, and they are fundamentally incapable of satisfying your complaints.

It is a no-win scenario, no matter what they do, and no matter what you do, the outcome is bad for both sides.

You'd figure people knew the money would go to Charity and not to remake the ending. It's just really sad. Didn't support this whole project with remaking ME3's ending. But if I donate money to a charity, while sure, I can do it to make myself noticed with some cause I don't bloody take the money back when the cause fails. I realize that wasn't the case here, but rather a misunderstanding but it's still pretty damn low.

Scrythe:

Tycho:
[Child's Play] has been asked what the goal is, and how much they need to raise in order to get the ending produced. We've also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back. This is in addition to readers who simply couldn't understand how this was connected to Child's Play's mission. We were dealing with a lot of very confused people, more every day, and that told us we had a problem.

That alone is fucking disgusting. I cannot believe I'm a part of a community full of whiny, entitled, and egotistical assholes. For years, we've been struggling with the stigma that gamers, as a whole, are hopeless losers who are prone to violence and childish behavior, and here we are proving them right.

Penny Arcade's Child's Play (and by extension, Desert Bus) has been one of the greatest and most wholesome thing to come out of the gaming community, and has really helped quell the image that we're mindless slaves to "murder simulators", and just because a single AAA game had a sub-par ending, the gaming community managed to turn this into a fucking circus. Donate because you want to help Child's Play, not because your unwarranted self-importance demands that you somehow deserve a better ending simply because you may or may not have actually purchased the product.

I'm sick of this attitude. It needs to fucking stop. No other medium of entertainment stoops so low as to make petitions and campaigns over such trivial bullshit.

You don't see people sending death threats to Michael Bay's personal phones in response to Transformers.

You don't see people making massive online petitions to boycott Eoin Colfer's And Another Thing... or Brian Herbert's Sisterhood of Dune.

You don't see people withdrawing their donations from a food drive because they wanted a different ending to The Sopranos.

We're supposed to show the world that we're much more mature than this, and instead we're turning into another self-indulgent internet mob.

Go fuck yourselves

This was what I basically thought when I read the story.

Versuvius:
So..some people thought that Childsplay..a CHARITY AIMED TOWARDS CHILDREN...was going to be buying a new ME3 ending, and then demanded their donations back. How thick are some people? Gawd o mighty.

This is what I was thinking too. Mother of god. I really dont know how people can be this beef-headed. Every day I think, now...it'll never surprise me anymore how stupid some people can get...and EVERY day...they break their old records.

*sigh*

Humanity.

Scrythe:
[quote=Tycho][Child's Play]
*snippety*

You don't see people sending death threats to Michael Bay's personal phones in response to Transformers.

Did anyone really expect any of the Transformer sequels to be good though? Especially the third? I found the first one to be good, the second to be good-to-bad, and the third to be more or less the bane of humanity. But I expected it.

Nobody expected one of the best gaming series of ALL times to end that badly. And a lot of people cared about it and wanted it to end in a decent way.

TL;DR
1. Good on you gamers for giving to a charity
2. *facepalm* gamers because you're stupid enough to mistake Childs Play for Kickstarter
3. Transformers 3 is one of the worst movie of ALL time

captcha: call me.

I feel kind of wierd when my PC is putting the moves on me.

Scrythe:

Tycho:
[Child's Play] has been asked what the goal is, and how much they need to raise in order to get the ending produced. We've also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back. This is in addition to readers who simply couldn't understand how this was connected to Child's Play's mission. We were dealing with a lot of very confused people, more every day, and that told us we had a problem.

That alone is fucking disgusting. I cannot believe I'm a part of a community full of whiny, entitled, and egotistical assholes. For years, we've been struggling with the stigma that gamers, as a whole, are hopeless losers who are prone to violence and childish behavior, and here we are proving them right.

Penny Arcade's Child's Play (and by extension, Desert Bus) has been one of the greatest and most wholesome thing to come out of the gaming community, and has really helped quell the image that we're mindless slaves to "murder simulators", and just because a single AAA game had a sub-par ending, the gaming community managed to turn this into a fucking circus. Donate because you want to help Child's Play, not because your unwarranted self-importance demands that you somehow deserve a better ending simply because you may or may not have actually purchased the product.

I'm sick of this attitude. It needs to fucking stop. No other medium of entertainment stoops so low as to make petitions and campaigns over such trivial bullshit.

You don't see people sending death threats to Michael Bay's personal phones in response to Transformers.

You don't see people making massive online petitions to boycott Eoin Colfer's And Another Thing... or Brian Herbert's Sisterhood of Dune.

You don't see people withdrawing their donations from a food drive because they wanted a different ending to The Sopranos.

We're supposed to show the world that we're much more mature than this, and instead we're turning into another self-indulgent internet mob.

Go fuck yourselves

In all serious though, I agree 100%. This is getting way out of hand.

kouriichi:
HA HA! Called it. I knew right there at the beginning, the first time i read about it. I called it. I said "This is one of the worst ideas ever, and its going to be shot down."

People need to get over this. I didnt even think the ending was THAT BAD. I thought it was decent. But everyone these days feels so entitled they need to boycott and do fund raisers to have something change.

This really started to bother me after TB started to become more entitled. Ive been a fan of his for.... flying spaghetti monster knows how long?!? But recently hes been really whiny. "The FoV is slightly to small for me on PC, so no one should buy it" was his stance. Sure, i understand that some people get headaches from small FoV on PC, but that just means, GET IT FOR CONSOLE. Dont like the PC port? Get it for console. -_- Instead of costing them thousands of dollars paying workers to change 1 thing, so some entitled buttholes can be happy, just get it on console. If you have the ability to sink $2k into a PC, you can afford a console. PC wasnt $2000? Great, youve got $1000 more then the guy who put $2k into his PC. Go buy one.

All this whining as of late by the "gaming" community has done nothing but give me headaches.

But back on topic. Im glad it got shut down. Trying to bribe a corporation by saying "were doing it for children :D", when really, your doing it because of selfish needs is one of the most amoral things ive ever heard of. Child's Play should refund the money of anyone who wants it returned.

*Goes onto thread about -X- subject that has nothing to do with consoles* / *Start PC/Console flamewar*

Go back beloweth the bridge whence you came thy troll. Before I bring out my spray.

No im serious. Why did you even have to start flaming PC-users or saying they have no right to complain about flaws in a game that can be easily fixed?... Jesus. If anyone is butthurt about this whole ordeal it is surely you sir. You are just hurt in your behind by something else than they are.

I agree with you that using childsplay to achieve a goal to change the ending is wrong. But there is a looooooong stretch from that and calling for a fix of minor issues caused in porting.

Versuvius:
So..some people thought that Childsplay..a CHARITY AIMED TOWARDS CHILDREN...was going to be buying a new ME3 ending, and then demanded their donations back. How thick are some people? Gawd o mighty.

It validates my point that all the people who've been frothing with rage and crying themselves to sleep over the ME3 ending are complete idiots. Over"Zeel"ous springs to mind as well.

I wish there was anything more I could say, but it's so sadly true that it's funny.

RvLeshrac:
...

Are you dense? They didn't "allow Bioware to use Child's Play to draw attention to a fucking videogame," they used the Bioware advertising to draw attention to Child's Play. Do you honestly fucking think that anyone who knows what Child's Play is wouldn't already know what *EVERY BIOWARE GAME FOR THE NEXT DECADE* is going to be?

Child's play was founded in 2003, not 2009! And if you think that companies don't use charities to gain publicity and advertise products than you are the dense one here. Bioware could have easily just spent money on the charity anonymously, instead they advertised their game. That is exactly what Tycho blames the Retake Mass Effect group did.

Somepunctuation:
So PA is prematurely ending a charity drive... and they're doing so under the pretense that it's causing confusion (for whom, 3 or 4 people?), and because they don't like the cause. Disgusting.

Penny Arcade:

You have almost certainly heard of "Retake Mass Effect" by now. One of many grassroots efforts to get a new ending to Mass Effect 3, it's part community, part online petition, and part (here is where things get complicated) Child's Play Donation Drive. They have stopped taking donations now partly because they basically won and partly because we don't know how to feel about this use of the charity.

As the main point of contact for Child's Play, Jamie has been buried under mail about this situation. Apparently some of the people giving to the cause seemed to think that they were paying for a new ending to Mass Effect. She's been asked what the goal is, and how much they need to raise in order to get the ending produced. We've also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back. This is in addition to readers who simply couldn't understand how this was connected to Child's Play's mission. We were dealing with a lot of very confused people, more every day, and that told us we had a problem.

We have policies in place to deal with direct abuse: we don't allow companies to use Child's Play in order to sell more stuff. To that end we do not allow deals like "1 cent of every dollar goes to Child's Play!" or whatever. But this isn't anywhere on that continuum! This is a passionate community that formed around one thing, and some of that passion was expressed in charitable giving. I actually support this cause, but I am a pessimist, and I'm thinking about the next time something like this happens - when someone attaches Child's Play to something we can't get behind, or leverages your history of generosity and fellow feeling for their own weird bullshit. So, we need to have something like a policy on this. This is the best way I can think to say it:

Child's Play cannot be a tool to draw attention to a cause. Child's Play must be the Cause.

Nothing like this has ever happened in the almost ten years the charity has been running, so it kind of threw me for a loop. Thanks for listening.

(CW)TB

i've highlighted the parts where you were incorrect about penny arcade.

Kashrlyyk:

RvLeshrac:
...

Are you dense? They didn't "allow Bioware to use Child's Play to draw attention to a fucking videogame," they used the Bioware advertising to draw attention to Child's Play. Do you honestly fucking think that anyone who knows what Child's Play is wouldn't already know what *EVERY BIOWARE GAME FOR THE NEXT DECADE* is going to be?

Child's play was founded in 2003, not 2009! And if you think that companies don't use charities to gain publicity and advertise products than you are the dense one here. Bioware could have easily just spent money on the charity anonymously, instead they advertised their game. That is exactly what Tycho blames the Retake Mass Effect group did.

Making anonymous donations would help the charity, but not draw their fanbase to child's play (and theirs is a lot bigger, no matter when child's play was founded).

By donating stuff like signed copies of games and other game related swag to use for auctions they allow for their customer base to get to donate to charity through them.

So yeah...

disgruntledgamer:
In other words EA bitched that they were making them lose money and threatened with lawyers. Charities wouldn't care that the money they're getting is from a source like this unless they were getting negative feed back.

The people that gave negative feed back to Child's Play donation drive should be dragged out onto the street and shot.

I don't think Child's Play cares about what EA wants. However, if you have people withdrawing donations and starting badmouting Child's Play because, oh shock, the money went to children in need and not towards making a new ending for Mass Effect, that creates a load of problems for the foundation.

The blame here lies solidly with the morons who didn't get what RME was about: making a point by doing something completely selfless and grand, no matter how unrelated to the subject matter it may seem.

Edit: On a satirical level, this is quite interesting though. Just think about it: the main complaing of most people towards the ME3 ending was "false advertising". Now they are complaining about the same thing regarding a charity. I think by now it is pretty clear that at least some of the people involved are just being unreasonable.

I hardly see a problem. This was a perfectly expectable turn of events :

Step 1 : "Gamers are in fact nice people, let's make Child's play and use their niceness for a good cause !"
Step 2 : "Child's play worked quite well, so we should keep going and find a way to get even more from the Internet ! Now how will we do this ?..."

Which inevitably brings us to someone, somewhere coming to The Inevitable Conclusion, that is :

Step 3 : "What's a greater power in the world than a gamer's niceness ?... OH WAIT ! I KNOW !"

And lo, the incredible power of Internet Rage got channeled towards a charity. And raised 80K in no time. It needn't be a fraud at all, they probably just expected to put nerdrage to a good use. And succeeded. A bit too well, perhaps.

This is all very logical.

PS : I haven't played Mass Effect 3 yet, but just to make it clear, I am also raging against its ending. Even though I don't know what it looks like. In fact, I've been raging since the end of Mass Effect 2, and only Mordin Solus kept me from raging during the course of the second game. I'm a free man, and I can rage all I damn well please, and no amount of smug comments is going to stop me !

I'm sorry, but am I the only one who thought that that Salarian was flashing the horns? Anyone?

Nikolaz72:

kouriichi:
HA HA! Called it. I knew right there at the beginning, the first time i read about it. I called it. I said "This is one of the worst ideas ever, and its going to be shot down."

People need to get over this. I didnt even think the ending was THAT BAD. I thought it was decent. But everyone these days feels so entitled they need to boycott and do fund raisers to have something change.

This really started to bother me after TB started to become more entitled. Ive been a fan of his for.... flying spaghetti monster knows how long?!? But recently hes been really whiny. "The FoV is slightly to small for me on PC, so no one should buy it" was his stance. Sure, i understand that some people get headaches from small FoV on PC, but that just means, GET IT FOR CONSOLE. Dont like the PC port? Get it for console. -_- Instead of costing them thousands of dollars paying workers to change 1 thing, so some entitled buttholes can be happy, just get it on console. If you have the ability to sink $2k into a PC, you can afford a console. PC wasnt $2000? Great, youve got $1000 more then the guy who put $2k into his PC. Go buy one.

All this whining as of late by the "gaming" community has done nothing but give me headaches.

But back on topic. Im glad it got shut down. Trying to bribe a corporation by saying "were doing it for children :D", when really, your doing it because of selfish needs is one of the most amoral things ive ever heard of. Child's Play should refund the money of anyone who wants it returned.

*Goes onto thread about -X- subject that has nothing to do with consoles* / *Start PC/Console flamewar*

Go back beloweth the bridge whence you came thy troll. Before I bring out my spray.

No im serious. Why did you even have to start flaming PC-users or saying they have no right to complain about flaws in a game that can be easily fixed?... Jesus. If anyone is butthurt about this whole ordeal it is surely you sir. You are just hurt in your behind by something else than they are.

I agree with you that using childsplay to achieve a goal to change the ending is wrong. But there is a looooooong stretch from that and calling for a fix of minor issues caused in porting.

This isnt so much a "Console war" as it is a complaint about those who use the console.

Personally, Im a PC gamer. I own 3x more games for pc, then for my 3 consoles combined. I dont see a problem with sinking money into a PC.

The complaint i have is about a large number of PC gamers being.... Extremely entitled. To the point where anything that isnt made specifically for PC is going to be bashed for it. "Its a console port" shouldnt be an insult for a game. They are the only ones im bashing. The people who think "i bought it so everything has to be perfect".

And "easily fixed" still costs the company large amounts of money. Its not something they can do in one afternoon by a single person for free. Every hour spent on "Fixing" a "problem" that isnt broken is thousands of dollars. Between paying the designer, testers, getting it processed and then sending the patch out, your looking at a fat stack of cash. To make an extremely small percent of the gaming population happy. What 5%-10%? And its ONLY for PC. When they have to worry about 3 consoles along with it, they dont have the time or money to "fix" every "issue".

As i said. Im a PC gamer. :/ But i havent asked for a single thing to any game ive played on PC. I bought the product. Its my bed to lay in. Sure, i dont like the low FoV, but i will NEVER demand it be changed and drop the sales of the game because i personally am not happy. Sure, i didnt like the ending to ME3, but im not going to ask them for a new one. I bought the game knowing everyone hated the end. Thats my fault though. Not the companies.

I feel really awful for Child's Play. They deserve better than that. I'm utterly disgusted...too much to even come up with any other coherent thoughts.

It looks like some people are just too stupid to be using the Internet. Maybe there needs to be a basic competency test before giving anybody a high speed connection.

Scrythe:

You don't see people sending death threats to Michael Bay's personal phones in response to Transformers.

In retrospect... maybe we should have complained more. You know. Before movies 2 and 3. And now Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. He's turning them into aliens. Can you believe that? It takes 10 seconds of the opening theme to find out the back story. Teenage. MUTANT. Ninja. Turtles.

And it's repeated ad nausea... ad nuase-... ad nau.... a lot of times. Of course death threats by phone are skipping across the line into crazy land merrily tossing grenades and teddy bears as you go.

But I digress.

It's a shame that people are too stupid to be trusted with their own money these days. Some threw their money at EA Bioware, supporting shady business practise. Some threw their money at a children's charity, expecting them to program a game.

This only goes to show that IQ tests should be given to people, before they are issued with credit or debit cards.

This has been an, as of yet, unmitigated disaster. I've never seen a game release quite so enrage an entire community. And it's entirely the fault of EA Biowares hype-machine. The game was over marketed, with too many add ons and cross linking, leaving consumers confused as to what the final product was.

And now, a children's charity is caught in the cross fire. As is classically the case in high emotion events, people have stopped thinking. Name calling has replaced reasonable arguments (whiny, entitled, and egotistical assholes, and mindless Biodrones to name two). People quickly devolve to CAPS FURY and offensive language, because the issue at hand was badly handled.

Why was it badly handled? Again, the fault lies with EA Bioware. A company hopefully ran by mature adults. They're trying to sell their games to the 'average gamer'. And the average gamer is, and always will be the hormonal teenager with disposable income and free time. All EA Bioware had to do when the first complaints came in, was throw up their hands, and say 'Ok, Ok, give us some time, we'll fix it.' Instead, they decided to get into a pissing contest with said teenagers, who are irrational at the best of times. And why is that?

The DLC and other games they have in the works. They can't afford to scrap their existing plans now, since too much has been invested. Too much work has been done, and since EA Bioware weren't upfront about their intentions, anything released now will just seem like them milking thee franchise... which they are.

The important things to remember here, are that this is not an isolated incident, and that EA Bioware have drastically mis-managed the debacle.

This is resulting backlash to years of discontent about DLC, and the mediocrity of AAA games. Mass Effect when it was first released was almost unique. An RPG shooter, with full dialogue and brand new universes. It was cinematic, with it's slightly grainy visuals. Mass Effect 2 removed a lot of that, and it felt more and more like a standard shooter game. And they introduced the Cerberus network to distribute DLC. And then with the last installment, it basically is a cover based shooter, complete with multi-player, and so much DLC and extras I can't even comfortably write about it, in this already over long post. Not only that, but they ended what was regarded as one of the best series in gaming, not with the bang as it deserves, but more of a 'To be continued...'

When you prod a teenager, with their usual self centred aggresion, with this kind of treatment, what do they expect to happen? EA Bioware has completely mis-understood their target audience, which is kind of shocking since the game is designed so perfectly towards them. They are now clinging to a weak argument of artistic integrity, as they quite happily cut the soul from the old Bioware company to fill up with their own staff.

But I'm quite fully at a tangent now.

The point is that this 'debate' has long since gone past any rational thought or behaviour. We have the consumer base divided, and the company in question banking on their supporters to win, so as to preserve their upcoming line of DLC. It's madness, and will prove either the breaking point of the over marketing of AAA games, or the final head long rush into summer blockbuster games designed to make money. Nothing is particularly wrong with either path, but many older gamers will harp on about the times when gaming was about messing around with code, and not focus groups.

But in the mean time, there will be casualties, and unfortunately, Child's Play is one of those casualties. I'm surprised that EA Bioware didn't issue a statement that they weren't involved with the charity in that regard, but I guess this way, their consumers are the bad guys.

Classy.

Well, that was long and the product of a fevered mind. It would be more sensible to let my feverish ramblings be delted than to post on the net.

But what's one more insane ramble of a mad man on his light box...

*click*

Scrythe:

Tycho:
[Child's Play] has been asked what the goal is, and how much they need to raise in order to get the ending produced. We've also been contacted by PayPal due to a high number of people asking for their donations back. This is in addition to readers who simply couldn't understand how this was connected to Child's Play's mission. We were dealing with a lot of very confused people, more every day, and that told us we had a problem.

That alone is fucking disgusting. I cannot believe I'm a part of a community full of whiny, entitled, and egotistical assholes. For years, we've been struggling with the stigma that gamers, as a whole, are hopeless losers who are prone to violence and childish behavior, and here we are proving them right.

Penny Arcade's Child's Play (and by extension, Desert Bus) has been one of the greatest and most wholesome thing to come out of the gaming community, and has really helped quell the image that we're mindless slaves to "murder simulators", and just because a single AAA game had a sub-par ending, the gaming community managed to turn this into a fucking circus. Donate because you want to help Child's Play, not because your unwarranted self-importance demands that you somehow deserve a better ending simply because you may or may not have actually purchased the product.

I'm sick of this attitude. It needs to fucking stop. No other medium of entertainment stoops so low as to make petitions and campaigns over such trivial bullshit.

You don't see people sending death threats to Michael Bay's personal phones in response to Transformers.

You don't see people making massive online petitions to boycott Eoin Colfer's And Another Thing... or Brian Herbert's Sisterhood of Dune.

You don't see people withdrawing their donations from a food drive because they wanted a different ending to The Sopranos.

We're supposed to show the world that we're much more mature than this, and instead we're turning into another self-indulgent internet mob.

Go **** yourselves

I agree completely with you. People trying to take back their donation to a children's charity?! No surprise as these are the people trying to force EA/Bioware to retcon a major games release, which is NEVER going to happen btw.

The whole thing has been one very, very sad affair.

kouriichi:

Nikolaz72:

kouriichi:
HA HA! Called it. I knew right there at the beginning, the first time i read about it. I called it. I said "This is one of the worst ideas ever, and its going to be shot down."

People need to get over this. I didnt even think the ending was THAT BAD. I thought it was decent. But everyone these days feels so entitled they need to boycott and do fund raisers to have something change.

This really started to bother me after TB started to become more entitled. Ive been a fan of his for.... flying spaghetti monster knows how long?!? But recently hes been really whiny. "The FoV is slightly to small for me on PC, so no one should buy it" was his stance. Sure, i understand that some people get headaches from small FoV on PC, but that just means, GET IT FOR CONSOLE. Dont like the PC port? Get it for console. -_- Instead of costing them thousands of dollars paying workers to change 1 thing, so some entitled buttholes can be happy, just get it on console. If you have the ability to sink $2k into a PC, you can afford a console. PC wasnt $2000? Great, youve got $1000 more then the guy who put $2k into his PC. Go buy one.

All this whining as of late by the "gaming" community has done nothing but give me headaches.

But back on topic. Im glad it got shut down. Trying to bribe a corporation by saying "were doing it for children :D", when really, your doing it because of selfish needs is one of the most amoral things ive ever heard of. Child's Play should refund the money of anyone who wants it returned.

*Goes onto thread about -X- subject that has nothing to do with consoles* / *Start PC/Console flamewar*

Go back beloweth the bridge whence you came thy troll. Before I bring out my spray.

No im serious. Why did you even have to start flaming PC-users or saying they have no right to complain about flaws in a game that can be easily fixed?... Jesus. If anyone is butthurt about this whole ordeal it is surely you sir. You are just hurt in your behind by something else than they are.

I agree with you that using childsplay to achieve a goal to change the ending is wrong. But there is a looooooong stretch from that and calling for a fix of minor issues caused in porting.

This isnt so much a "Console war" as it is a complaint about those who use the console.

Personally, Im a PC gamer. I own 3x more games for pc, then for my 3 consoles combined. I dont see a problem with sinking money into a PC.

The complaint i have is about a large number of PC gamers being.... Extremely entitled. To the point where anything that isnt made specifically for PC is going to be bashed for it. "Its a console port" shouldnt be an insult for a game. They are the only ones im bashing. The people who think "i bought it so everything has to be perfect".

And "easily fixed" still costs the company large amounts of money. Its not something they can do in one afternoon by a single person for free. Every hour spent on "Fixing" a "problem" that isnt broken is thousands of dollars. Between paying the designer, testers, getting it processed and then sending the patch out, your looking at a fat stack of cash. To make an extremely small percent of the gaming population happy. What 5%-10%? And its ONLY for PC. When they have to worry about 3 consoles along with it, they dont have the time or money to "fix" every "issue".

As i said. Im a PC gamer. :/ But i havent asked for a single thing to any game ive played on PC. I bought the product. Its my bed to lay in. Sure, i dont like the low FoV, but i will NEVER demand it be changed and drop the sales of the game because i personally am not happy. Sure, i didnt like the ending to ME3, but im not going to ask them for a new one. I bought the game knowing everyone hated the end. Thats my fault though. Not the companies.

You are creating your own strawman arguments, attributing them to nameless "persons" and raging. Wow, we are scraping the bottom of the troll barrel here, aren't we?

So a poorly-worded and poorly-explained charity drive gets donations from people who think it's actually for something else, and ya'll are mad that those people wanted their money back?

What the hell does "retake mass effect 3" have to do with children's charity? It's a pretty easy mistake to make considering the blatantly poor advertising.

Draech:
...
Making anonymous donations would help the charity, but not draw their fanbase to child's play (and theirs is a lot bigger, no matter when child's play was founded)....

There are other ways to make your fanbase aware of that which doesn't involve blatantly obvious advertising and you know it. In fact there are ways for Child's Play to draw attention towards it without talking to video game companies at all! I am sure Gaming magazines would have loved to report about the charity and its successes.

So yeah nothing....

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