Mass Effect 3 Outrage Causes Unrelated Game to Change its Ending

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Kalezian:

>checks XBL mini profile in Escapist Magazine profile

>sees Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3 in recently played list

> mfw

Still doesn't change the fact that everything you said in your previous post was completely fucking stupid.

Murmillos:

Repeat after me, its not about having a "good" ending; its about having a coherent ending that matches the theme and choices of previous 3 games you just played.

Guardian of Nekops:
The game isn't complete crap, is the thing. The vast majority of the game, and series, is well put together and a wonderful thing to behold. The fact that the ending contains more plot holes that the rest of the 300+ hour work is not only a criticism, it's a sort of praise as well.

If Bioware was just a horrible company, we'd just groan, not buy anything from them in the first place, and leave them be. However, they are talented. They do good work, work that we enjoy... but the ending was beneath them. The last 15 minutes of this game was bad enough to ruin the rest of the series for many, but we KNOW they can do better. Easily, without changing very much at all.

But see, this is partly what I don't understand. Why are the fans being like parents telling their kids "Redo it! You can do better!"? Why is it that they can't take the game as what it is? A decent game with a bad ending?

I mean... fans telling the people who made the thing to redo it to suit their tastes? I mean, cmon...

And what has puzzled me is that how will it be any better even if they do change the ending? Won't that leave a bad taste in your mouth from the whole series?

Simonoly:
I suppose it is interesting that they did this, even if it does come across a little smug and pretentious. But this whole "wah! don't tread on my fledgling artist integrity" whine fest is getting really old now.

Why can't we just treat Mass Effect 3 like any other game with a horribly written ending? You know - write snide reviews, make up our own endings whilst laughing at how inept the writers must be and treating all future products from the same developer with a sense of suspicion. Why must we demand redemption and "retake" the game? What makes Mass Effect so special?

Demarcation.

Given how things around the game has been handled, throughout, I lean more and more towards the supposition that the ending (...as well as other aspects...) of ME3 has in truth almost zero artistic aspirations and was instead tailored, first and formost, to lay groundwork for DLC sales, compromising any actual artistic integrity in the process.

Conspiracy theory would imply that EA has gambled the impressive brand recogition and customer loyalty, that Bioware and their Mass Effect series enjoy, in order to test the boundries and see just how far they can push the will of consumers to spend on getting all the pieces of a fragmented product. (EDIT: ...and from their own, single, monopoly marketplace, at that.)

Well, the weight of the fandom, that they had intended to capitalise, has proven a double-edged sword. EA thought the inertia of the last part of a popular trilogy could tear open any wallet in its way, but are now faced with that same inertia turned back at themselves -- that is: one could make the guess that people make so much noise now, this specific time, because the high profile of the case could allow them to draw a very deep line in the sand.

That said; Any publicity is good publicity and maybe even this public outcry was planned all along. I expect the lion's share of complainers will line up to purchase any followup DLC, that was also planned all along -- even more eagerly because they believe its very existence is somehow an achievement of their own.

The ending has an emotional impact, certainly, but from what I can see, the emotions exist entirely on a meta level -- none of them arise from the the story told, but from how it ill fits the tone of the series, as it has been up to that point and the exploitative market tactics that has shaped it, moreover the very fact that they have been allowed to shape it.
I'm sure some could argue such "trolling" to be art, in it's own right, but naah.

I really dislike the ending. It was poorly conceptualized, poorly planned, poorly explained, and lazy. It was a weird tonal shift from the rest of the series on many levels. It was a clusterfuck of bad marketing. War assets are a boondoggle on a massive scale.

The best thing that could theoretically be said about it, is that it was supposed to be a statement deconstructing video games and action heroes, but if that was the case, why aren't they defending that more forcefully?

Bioware should not change a thing about the ending.

OniaPL:

But see, this is partly what I don't understand. Why are the fans being like parents telling their kids "Redo it! You can do better!"? Why is it that they can't take the game as what it is? A decent game with a bad ending?

I mean... fans telling the people who made the thing to redo it to suit their tastes? I mean, cmon...

And what has puzzled me is that how will it be any better even if they do change the ending? Won't that leave a bad taste in your mouth from the whole series?

Because its not even a bad ending, its a insulting ending. Everything this series was to stand for in the concepts of interactive story telling was made null and void in the final moments.

I'm not sure how we can make this more obvious of what the problem is:

A sports game that changes types in the final minutes of the play offs, and the team that performed poorly for the season is suddenly the champions.

A classical concert that suddenly ends with a Rap-Off.

A long romantic novel that ends with a psycho killing everybody on the last 2 pages.

A 5 course dinner that ends with the chief serving rotting raw liver for desert.

A long Caribbean cruise that ends with the ship sinking 10 miles from shore, causing you to lose everything you brought on board.

edit

I think people are missing the point.

I don't care whether ME3 qualifies as art or not. This, for me, has no bearing on the ending and it's content.

What people should be concerned about is that the company provided a product to paying customers. They also promised closure (As i'm sure has been quoted a thousand times), and when many customers felt that they didn't deliver that promise, they desired the product be changed. Bioware also deliver customer service with their products, same as any business, and should at least be expected to listen to their CUSTOMERS' feedback.

I work in a Cafe. If we make a substandard meal and the customer feels it isn't up to scratch, they have 3 options:
-Say nothing
-Request that the meal be redone
-Request a refund

Now, many people are placing themselves in the second boat, as they certainly aren't remaining quiet, but they certainly aren't rushing to get a refund JUST IN CASE Bioware do change the ending. But, as Bioware are a business, they should listen to their customers' feedback, lest they (or rather, retailers) have to start shelling out hundreds of thousands or even millions or dollars in refunds. I don't have to explain the consequences for Bioware.

That's my 2 cents. The question of the game being Art is IRRELEVANT. What matters is customer service.

Boyninja616:
I think people are missing the point.

I don't care whether ME3 qualifies as art or not. This, for me, has no bearing on the ending and it's content.

What people should be concerned about is that the company provided a product to paying customers. They also promised closure (As i'm sure has been quoted a thousand times), and when many customers felt that they didn't deliver that promise, they desired the product be changed. Bioware also deliver customer service with their products, same as any business, and should at least be expected to listen to their CUSTOMERS' feedback.

I work in a Cafe. If we make a substandard meal and the customer feels it isn't up to scratch, they have 3 options:
-Say nothing
-Request that the meal be redone
-Request a refund

Now, many people are placing themselves in the second boat, as they certainly aren't remaining quiet, but they certainly aren't rushing to get a refund JUST IN CASE Bioware do change the ending. But, as Bioware are a business, they should listen to their customers' feedback, lest they (or rather, retailers) have to start shelling out hundreds of thousands or even millions or dollars in refunds. I don't have to explain the consequences for Bioware.

That's my 2 cents. The question of the game being Art is IRRELEVANT. What matters is customer service.

Well, short of Amazon recently doing the unthinkable, for games. There is no refund (only selling it to a used games store).

We don't feel like watching EA slash and burn good developers for short term stock gains, so saying nothing no longer feels right.

The only thing left to do is request the ending be redone. (there is some demanding.. but there are always the demanders in any customer/business relationship)

But yes, you are right.

hulksmashley:

Mike Kayatta:

hulksmashley:

That's cute.

If my opinion/comment was somthing you paid for, and I made it for you, that would work.

Just letting you know. Once money is involved and people are paying you for something, how you feel about it no longer matters. It's not really yours anymore.

Oh, so it's because you paid for Mass Effect 3. Okay, now I'm following. So you paid for the game, and so did I. We have differing opinions about the ending. What happens now?

Bioware creates optional DLC that changes it.

If you liked it, which I'm assuming you do, don't download it. Your ending won't change.

If you didn't like it, as I and many others didn't, you do download it. Then your ending changes.

Bioware sucessfully satisfies a greater percentage of their customers. Which is their goal, as a business.

Ta-da

Personally, I didn't like the ending, and while I may wish it was different, it wasn't. Changing it now would be the equivalent of asking me to pause Titanic and tell you about how the ship didn't sink. The moment that movie was released, the ship sank. That's what "happened." Anything I may say differently now is superflous (then again, I guess there are some people who like Obi-Wan's new krayt dragon roar). For a creative producer to offer to sell me a canon-jettisoning patch altering an ending that I may or may not like, to me, is ludicrous. It's an option though. Their option. The important thing to remember is that words such as "need" have no place in this discussion. There is no divine requirement that they shift a story they have spent over five years creating, and nor do we, the players, have a divine right to anything different than what we already got. If they choose to play around with it, so be it. I'm not in favor, but it's not my story.

Murmillos:

I'm not sure how we can make this more obvious of what the problem is:

A sports game that changes types in the final minutes of the play offs, and the team that performed poorly for the season is suddenly the champions.

A classical concert that suddenly ends with a Rap-Off.

A long romantic novel that ends with a psycho killing everybody on the last 2 pages.

A 5 course dinner that ends with the chief serving rotting raw liver for desert.

A long Caribbean cruise that ends with the ship sinking 10 miles from shore, causing you to lose everything you brought on board.

But I think that you don't understand that I don't understand why it has to be changed.

When a classical concert ends with a rap off and you don't like it, you boo/get up and leave, and don't spend your money at the artist's shows anymore.

With that romantic novel, you don't tell the author to rewrite it, you just throw it into a corner and again, vote with your wallet.

And so on and so on.

Like it or not, this is what Bioware decided to do, whether there were financial or artistic reasons behind the decisions. You don't tell people to re-write it or remake it until it suits your tastes.

Aiddon:

nathan-dts:
Just change the ending. Game development is a collaborative effort, why not take input from the people that matter, your fans. People need to stop defending Bioware, they fucked up and need to fix it. That ending is not art, Mordin's death was art, Grunts last stand was art. These things evoked emotions, the ending evoked nothing and then because of that nothingness people became angry.

Because under no circumstance are you actually part of the creative process. The choices you made throughout those games were designed BY BIOWARE. There is only one type of art where the consumers/fanbase gets a part in creating it: bad art.

Anyway, this is some mighty trolling. Heck, I'd even say it's a proper critique of Bioware's spineless reaction. If they're going to sell their integrity so readily it sets a bad standard for games as narrative media.

They sold their integrity the minute they became a business. That's part of being a business; making what your customers want. The more money the customer is expected to shell out on this gamble (and it's always a gamble when you buy a game or movie because you can't ever 'know' if it's bad or not), the more they want to know they'll have recourse if it turns sour. And this did.

If EA wanted their customers to bitch less about bad gambles, maybe EA can stop punishing used game sales. But nope, they want to take away customer's avenues to combat bad gambles on purchases AND the ability to make shitty games and call it art AND to still have money. You really can't have that all.

They could choose to keep that integrity, but they'll have to pay the price all other starving artists do.

Again, if you want total 100% integrity in an artistic en devour, the only way to do that is to not expect people to finance your en devour. If you want to write 'what you want' and fuck everybody else, don't expect to make any money and expect to give out a lot of refunds when what you want isn't what anybody else wants.

It's that plain and simple. It's not all about BioWare's wants as artists; if it was then they can give the game out for free. The minute they involve your wallet, you have say in the product, whether or not they like it. And if they don't like it, cool. Don't sell the product. I'd be entirely fine with whatever shitty ending they had if it was free; I don't give a flying damn about all the shitty stories on Fan Fiction sites, after all, because I'm not expected to put up 80 dollars to witness it.

You can say it's their business or art and they can make it however they want, and that's fine, but if you sat down at a blackjack card table, and the house rules here were that the house wins when you're ahead of it, if you're behind it, if you hit 21, or if you bust, or if the house busts.. you're not obligated to ante up every time.

They CAN run that business. They CAN call Hopeless Blackjack an artistic expression. But if they want money, they have to sell what the customer wants, and the customer isn't likely to want Hopeless Blackjack. Sorry. You're not obligated to be EA's piggy bank to finance whatever stupid shit they want.

The fact they advertised the game in a way that wasn't fair to the ending they did deliver, that's even more dishonest, so cries of 'their integrity' fall hollow on my ears anyways. If they wanted 'integrity' maybe they could had decided not to be dishonest in their ads.

OniaPL:

But I think that you don't understand that I don't understand why it has to be changed.

When a classical concert ends with a rap off and you don't like it, you boo/get up and leave, and don't spend your money at the artist's shows anymore.

With that romantic novel, you don't tell the author to rewrite it, you just throw it into a corner and again, vote with your wallet.

And so on and so on.

Like it or not, this is what Bioware decided to do, whether there were financial or artistic reasons behind the decisions. You don't tell people to re-write it or remake it until it suits your tastes.

Maybe if EA and BioWare weren't punishing people for reselling their game, you'd have a point.

This would be more like a classical concert, divided up into 3 parts that you had to pay 120% of the price for (due to DLC), ended in a rap off after you'd invested all that money. After the ads for it promised it was genuine. You wouldn't boo and leave and not spend money there. You'd demand a refund.

And even if you didn't demand a refund, you can leave, sure. But does BioWare WANT you to leave? Nope. If they did, they wouldn't give a flying shit about your complaints. They'd leave the ending the same. But they're changing it, because THEY want you to stay.

I'm a dinosaur and I find this ending offensive

PingoBlack:
Experiment, he says? Nice. It worked ...
I was gonna check out this game, he gave me a very nice reason to stay the fuck away. :)

Oh and My. Synapse (lol) let me say it again: Ending-O-Tron cannot be considered art.

TheCaptain:
How unnecessarily smug. And missing the point, I might add, since "Happy End" or not has never been the issue.

Yeah, very much so ... Really nice customer relations move, eh? :)

Indeed. This game company ISN'T bioware with legions of fans to piss off and barely notice. This could well backfire on him. (Maybe, maybe not.) If anything it's given me, like you, a reason to avoid the product altogher. Not sure if that's what he intended... *shrug*

And the "happy ending" crowed need to take thier blinders off and come have an accually discussion about what piss us off. Of course, that would require, putting forth some mental effort, so i'll not be holding my breath.

And frankly, I'm fully in consperisay mode now. Bioware, they planed this... to drum up drama (Drama is always good for druming up some curesity sales.) and DLC... We'er being played, i can just feel it...

4173:
I really dislike the ending. It was poorly conceptualized, poorly planned, poorly explained, and lazy. It was a weird tonal shift from the rest of the series on many levels. It was a clusterfuck of bad marketing. War assets are a boondoggle on a massive scale.

The best thing that could theoretically be said about it, is that it was supposed to be a statement deconstructing video games and action heroes, but if that was the case, why aren't they defending that more forcefully?

Bioware should not change a thing about the ending.

People must start to understand that saying that they should and saying that they shouldn't is exactly the same thing.

Somebody worried about artistic integrity must say that Bioware should access the criticism and do whatever they want to.

This is the funniest thing I've seen in a while.

Of course, it's like trying to put out a forest fire with spittle for as much good as it'll do for anything, but still.

Am I the only one who thinks that sounded like they were defending Bioware?

Hell of a way to make a statement. Personally, I think it was smug and unnecessary move that only adds more oil to the fire while completely missing the fucking point (something so many people seem to do).
On other hand I'd respect Bioware a lot more if they decided to do something like this as their new "ending".

OniaPL:

But I think that you don't understand that I don't understand why it has to be changed.

When a classical concert ends with a rap off and you don't like it, you boo/get up and leave, and don't spend your money at the artist's shows anymore.

With that romantic novel, you don't tell the author to rewrite it, you just throw it into a corner and again, vote with your wallet.

And so on and so on.

Like it or not, this is what Bioware decided to do, whether there were financial or artistic reasons behind the decisions. You don't tell people to re-write it or remake it until it suits your tastes.

The difference is that now, with technology being what it is, game developers have a new option available to them: To fix it. Remember, none of this controversy would exist if Bioware hadn't done such a phenomenally good job with the series up until that point. We love Bioware and we want them to succeed. Basically, instead of going "Dammit Bioware, I'm done with you!" we're giving them the opportunity to go "Okay, in the eyes of many of our fans, we didn't succeed with the ending. We have the chance to fix this and make it right."

Basically, Bioware's getting a second chance on this, rather than just being dismissed outright. Beyond that, I know I'm speaking for many Mass Effect fans when I say that we want the series to be remembered for what it is, not what it could have been. As it stands, it's brilliant...but it stumbles in the last 10 minutes, and it stumbles so badly that it retroactively hurts the rest of the trilogy.

OniaPL:

Murmillos:

I'm not sure how we can make this more obvious of what the problem is:

A sports game that changes types in the final minutes of the play offs, and the team that performed poorly for the season is suddenly the champions.

A classical concert that suddenly ends with a Rap-Off.

A long romantic novel that ends with a psycho killing everybody on the last 2 pages.

A 5 course dinner that ends with the chief serving rotting raw liver for desert.

A long Caribbean cruise that ends with the ship sinking 10 miles from shore, causing you to lose everything you brought on board.

But I think that you don't understand that I don't understand why it has to be changed.

When a classical concert ends with a rap off and you don't like it, you boo/get up and leave, and don't spend your money at the artist's shows anymore.

With that romantic novel, you don't tell the author to rewrite it, you just throw it into a corner and again, vote with your wallet.

And so on and so on.

Like it or not, this is what Bioware decided to do, whether there were financial or artistic reasons behind the decisions. You don't tell people to re-write it or remake it until it suits your tastes.

Sure you do. And sometimes it works. IT's what fans DO. Did you know Sherlock Holmes DIED in a noval, and was reconned in by popular demand? (More or less) The Harry Potter lady wanted to kill him off, for giggles and didn't because of fearing fan backlash.

It happens in comic books too. Fans demand ALOT. Good god, watch Movie Bob's GL history video and see what some of them went through to get Hal back. Have you seen crap the Hylander 2 people did to try and recut the movie to make any since at all? Or when, in Mass Effect news, they let a totally new and clueless guy write a book so bad they are currently fixing it?

This kind of stuff happens all the time. It's just rarely acted on. It is, really, the creaters call if he wants too listen or not. (or the parent company who owns the IP rights, in the case of alot of comic book related stuff) And, IIRC, didn't Fallout get an updated or changed ending? This isn't new, nor uncalled for, not amoral in anyway. It's just RARE when accually change might happen.

Hey look, yet another group that's chosen willful ignorance of the heart of an issue over actually addressing it. Classy.

JeanLuc761:
The difference is that now, with technology being what it is, game developers have a new option available to them: To fix it. Remember, none of this controversy would exist if Bioware hadn't done such a phenomenally good job with the series up until that point. We love Bioware and we want them to succeed. Basically, instead of going "Dammit Bioware, I'm done with you!" we're giving them the opportunity to go "Okay, in the eyes of many of our fans, we didn't succeed with the ending. We have the chance to fix this and make it right."

Basically, Bioware's getting a second chance on this, rather than just being dismissed outright. Beyond that, I know I'm speaking for many Mass Effect fans when I say that we want the series to be remembered for what it is, not what it could have been. As it stands, it's brilliant...but it stumbles in the last 10 minutes, and it stumbles so badly that it retroactively hurts the rest of the trilogy.

The thing is that, it does help BioWare to fix it too. Yes, you could boo and never come back to the stage. And BioWare loses a customer forever. Of they can fix it, and keep the business.

Is booing and never coming back, how people 'want' us to react somehow better for artists? Would it be better BioWare, a company that COULD be great, being culled from the industry entirely and early, somehow better for the medium, or for us?

Because that's what 'Booing and Leaving forever' means, if enough people do it. It means BioWare's done; or at least that branch of the company is. It'd live on as the "Star Wars MMO Arm of EA" and that's it. Is THAT better?

No. It's better they rewrite it, or don't fuck up, or stop demanding us to relieve ourselves of our rights as customers to resell or ask for a refund. For them, and us.

When they offered that refund on Amazon, it, in a small way, greatly raised my likelihood to fill another BioWare seat in the future.

Hmm.... Maybe I'm just being old-fashioned, but I still don't think that you "patch" or "fix" a story. I would encourage you to pursue a refund rather than "change the ending".

edit

Murmillos:

Boyninja616:
I think people are missing the point.

I don't care whether ME3 qualifies as art or not. This, for me, has no bearing on the ending and it's content.

What people should be concerned about is that the company provided a product to paying customers. They also promised closure (As i'm sure has been quoted a thousand times), and when many customers felt that they didn't deliver that promise, they desired the product be changed. Bioware also deliver customer service with their products, same as any business, and should at least be expected to listen to their CUSTOMERS' feedback.

I work in a Cafe. If we make a substandard meal and the customer feels it isn't up to scratch, they have 3 options:
-Say nothing
-Request that the meal be redone
-Request a refund

Now, many people are placing themselves in the second boat, as they certainly aren't remaining quiet, but they certainly aren't rushing to get a refund JUST IN CASE Bioware do change the ending. But, as Bioware are a business, they should listen to their customers' feedback, lest they (or rather, retailers) have to start shelling out hundreds of thousands or even millions or dollars in refunds. I don't have to explain the consequences for Bioware.

That's my 2 cents. The question of the game being Art is IRRELEVANT. What matters is customer service.

Well, short of Amazon recently doing the unthinkable, for games. There is no refund (only selling it to a used games store).

We don't feel like watching EA slash and burn good developers for short term stock gains, so saying nothing no longer feels right.

The only thing left to do is request the ending be redone. (there is some demanding.. but there are always the demanders in any customer/business relationship)

But yes, you are right.

Hopefully people will start voting with their wallets, and retailers (save for Origin) will be wary of or even flat out refuse to stock games from certain developers/publishers.

Of course, there are always (Unreasonable) demanders, even in my job. The hope is that a large enough percentage (About 60-65 at the moment) publicly display their dissatisfaction at the product they bought, enough to shock Bioware into action.

Being a neutral party, I can see the stance of the defence, but unfortunately it just isn't worth the hassle, double-dealing and lack of integrity/solidarity. No dice for Bioware or EA this time, and this is from someone who hasn't ever bought a Bioware game.

Even if the next game is akin to the second coming of Jesus, I really want to see people boycott it, just to show publishers that the consumer isn't a Cash Cow to be milked. I actually came up with a rather good analogy earlier on.

Akichi Daikashima:

Aiddon:

nathan-dts:
Just change the ending. Game development is a collaborative effort, why not take input from the people that matter, your fans. People need to stop defending Bioware, they fucked up and need to fix it. That ending is not art, Mordin's death was art, Grunts last stand was art. These things evoked emotions, the ending evoked nothing and then because of that nothingness people became angry.

Because under no circumstance are you actually part of the creative process. The choices you made throughout those games were designed BY BIOWARE. There is only one type of art where the consumers/fanbase gets a part in creating it: bad art.

No we are not, but if the owner of a restoraunt punches you in the face with absolutely no reason whatsover, you will inquire and go "WTF, Man?" and consequently demand at least an explanation or more to the point an apology.

The ending betrays the entire game series, destroys all essence of art that Mass Effect carried, which smells like Bioware rushed it out for no discernable reason, I'm not pointing fingers at the culprits who pressured Bioware(I'm looking at you EA), but people STILL.DESERVE.AN.EXPLANATION.

I always love the metaphors the "pro-change" crowd comes up with lol. The game didn't physically assault you, and the ending of the game doesn't necessarily betray anything the game stood for.

I think game devs are having a REALLY big ego problems.

I think THEY are the "entitled" guys in here.

They think they are entitled to do whatever the freak they want with a game, put in a box, sell to us, and demand us to like it. And if not, deal with it and shut up/don't complain.

Kingsnake661:

OniaPL:

Murmillos:

I'm not sure how we can make this more obvious of what the problem is:

A sports game that changes types in the final minutes of the play offs, and the team that performed poorly for the season is suddenly the champions.

A classical concert that suddenly ends with a Rap-Off.

A long romantic novel that ends with a psycho killing everybody on the last 2 pages.

A 5 course dinner that ends with the chief serving rotting raw liver for desert.

A long Caribbean cruise that ends with the ship sinking 10 miles from shore, causing you to lose everything you brought on board.

But I think that you don't understand that I don't understand why it has to be changed.

When a classical concert ends with a rap off and you don't like it, you boo/get up and leave, and don't spend your money at the artist's shows anymore.

With that romantic novel, you don't tell the author to rewrite it, you just throw it into a corner and again, vote with your wallet.

And so on and so on.

Like it or not, this is what Bioware decided to do, whether there were financial or artistic reasons behind the decisions. You don't tell people to re-write it or remake it until it suits your tastes.

Sure you do. And sometimes it works. IT's what fans DO. Did you know Sherlock Holmes DIED in a noval, and was reconned in by popular demand? (More or less)

Yes, and many people believe that the 'post-death' novels were of a lesser quality that those that came before.

The Harry Potter lady wanted to kill him off, for giggles and didn't because of fearing fan backlash.

Yes, but she didn't kill him off, then go back and change her mind. Irrelevant.

It happens in comic books too. Fans demand ALOT.

Yup. And the fans got to watch the female characters transformed into large-breasted sluts who wear about 1/4 of what they used to walk/fly around in.

Here's another example: Family Guy. It was cancelled after the second season. Fans demanded more, and the show was brought back. It hasn't been funny since.

Here's where we come to why I said your Harry Potter example was irrelevant. Things that are brought back after their finish are always of a lower quality. Why? Because the creator considered their work to be over, that it's a finished product. If they're forced to go back and start again, their work will suffer.

Again, going back to Family Guy. They spoofed Star Wars, it was hilarious, and they decided that they weren't going to do the other two movies. But, no, demand caused them to do the other two, and when they were spoofing Return of the Jedi, they flat-out admitted that they were just kind of phoning it in at that point.

See, fans? Fans are stupid. Fans have their own interests in heart, not the best interests for the characters or the narrative. They're unsatisfied with the current ending, but even if a new ending was made, they'd just be unsatisfied with that one, too.

irishda:
I always love the metaphors the "pro-change" crowd comes up with lol. The game didn't physically assault you, and the ending of the game doesn't necessarily betray anything the game stood for.

You're half correct. It didn't cause us physical harm, but it's all but proven fact that it betrayed what the game stood for.

Choices you've made? Irrelevant.
Characters you love? We don't know what happens to them?
Future of the galaxy? Uncertain, but what we know is very bleak
The overriding theme of the series, which is "overcoming the odds"? Completely thrown away.

Beyond that, it destroyed the Mass Relays which is what the entire galactic civilization revolves around and depends on for survival. With those gone, mass deaths and the complete destruction of galactic society as we know it are guaranteed.

Agente L:
I think game devs are having a REALLY big ego problems.

I think THEY are the "entitled" guys in here.

They think they are entitled to do whatever the freak they want with0, put in a box, sell to us, and demand us to like it. And if not, deal with it and shut up/don't complain.

Sorry, no credit for partial answers.

The correct statement is:

"They paid their money to make the game, and it's their game, so they can do whatever the freak they want with it, put it on a box, sell to us, and hope we like it. And if not, deal with it.

DustyDrB:
So they are going with the "happy ending" argument. Well then, no real relevant opinion to see here then.

Though as I have said before, I am quite conflicted on how/if this debacle should be resolved.

To be fair, the troll-T-Rex-PONIES ending ridden with plot holes as well.

Agente L:
I think game devs are having a REALLY big ego problems.

I think THEY are the "entitled" guys in here.

They think they are entitled to do whatever the freak they want with0, put in a box, sell to us, and demand us to like it. And if not, deal with it and shut up/don't complain.

Where's this "demanding we like it" business? I have to say, the allegations against Bioware just pile up, and more and more of them are just pulled out of the complainee's ass.

Somebloke:

Simonoly:
I suppose it is interesting that they did this, even if it does come across a little smug and pretentious. But this whole "wah! don't tread on my fledgling artist integrity" whine fest is getting really old now.

Why can't we just treat Mass Effect 3 like any other game with a horribly written ending? You know - write snide reviews, make up our own endings whilst laughing at how inept the writers must be and treating all future products from the same developer with a sense of suspicion. Why must we demand redemption and "retake" the game? What makes Mass Effect so special?

Demarcation.

Given how things around the game has been handled, throughout, I lean more and more towards the supposition that the ending (...as well as other aspects...) of ME3 has in truth almost zero artistic aspirations and was instead tailored, first and formost, to lay groundwork for DLC sales, compromising any actual artistic integrity in the process.

Conspiracy theory would imply that EA has gambled the impressive brand recogition and customer loyalty, that Bioware and their Mass Effect series enjoy, in order to test the boundries and see just how far they can push the will of consumers to spend on getting all the pieces of a fragmented product. (EDIT: ...and from their own, single, monopoly marketplace, at that.)

Well, the weight of the fandom, that they had intended to capitalise, has proven a double-edged sword. EA thought the inertia of the last part of a popular trilogy could tear open any wallet in its way, but are now faced with that same inertia turned back at themselves -- that is: one could make the guess that people make so much noise now, this specific time, because the high profile of the case could allow them to draw a very deep line in the sand.

That said; Any publicity is good publicity and maybe even this public outcry was planned all along. I expect the lion's share of complainers will line up to purchase any followup DLC, that was also planned all along -- even more eagerly because they believe its very existence is somehow an achievement of their own.

The ending has an emotional impact, certainly, but from what I can see, the emotions exist entirely on a meta level -- none of them arise from the the story told, but from how it ill fits the tone of the series, as it has been up to that point and the exploitative market tactics that has shaped it, moreover the very fact that they have been allowed to shape it.
I'm sure some could argue such "trolling" to be art, in it's own right, but naah.

Firstly, thank you so much for using paragraphs in your response. You won't believe some of the walls of texts I've been sent this week!
Secondly, thank you for providing a well thought out response free of weak analogies. It was most refreshing to read.

Anyway, you make some very interesting points. There was definitely some 'experimentation' if you like being done by EA with ME3. It might not be to the extent that some conspiracy theories make out (I've heard some whacky things being said on these forums), but there is an overwhelming feeling that EA are testing new grounds here. Whether or not that's a framework for successfully exploiting their customer base, or something less.......sinister, well, I wouldn't like to say. But it's an important thing to bear in mind.

I completely agree with you on the ending. Anything emotional is indeed on a meta level. I wonder if Bioware understand that? They said the ending would polarise, but I hope they know the difference between eliciting an emotional response in the player due to events in the story and eliciting an emotional response in the player due to a shift in tone.

So would you say maybe, that Mass Effect 3 is being treated differently to many other games due to a culmination of many reasons that run deeper than it's Deus Ex Machina ending? That many don't just feel cheated, but actively exploited? Or am I just speaking out of my arse? - can/has/does happen.

OniaPL:

Murmillos:

I'm not sure how we can make this more obvious of what the problem is:

A sports game that changes types in the final minutes of the play offs, and the team that performed poorly for the season is suddenly the champions.

A classical concert that suddenly ends with a Rap-Off.

A long romantic novel that ends with a psycho killing everybody on the last 2 pages.

A 5 course dinner that ends with the chief serving rotting raw liver for desert.

A long Caribbean cruise that ends with the ship sinking 10 miles from shore, causing you to lose everything you brought on board.

But I think that you don't understand that I don't understand why it has to be changed.

When a classical concert ends with a rap off and you don't like it, you boo/get up and leave, and don't spend your money at the artist's shows anymore.

With that romantic novel, you don't tell the author to rewrite it, you just throw it into a corner and again, vote with your wallet.

And so on and so on.

Like it or not, this is what Bioware decided to do, whether there were financial or artistic reasons behind the decisions. You don't tell people to re-write it or remake it until it suits your tastes.

That might be a fine answer if you have plenty of other venues, or you just didn't care about the said product in the first place, but what would your answer be if most of those things you have enjoyed immensely in previous years.

Since you've grown up, you've always followed that sports game, and now it has a drastic change. You have team related clothing, you do a lot of game related activities. But the game changes, do you just walk away?

You've almost always gone to this concert all, because hey, they often play great music all the time. Ever since you've been there you've never had much of any issue. The occasional sub-par song, but most of the time you went home happy. They now decided to change it. Do you just walk away?

You have nearly every work on that novelist novel in your book shelf. Some of them are collectible and some of them are signed by the novelist. You have already picked up their books on release date. Now they decided to change the ending to start being edgy. Do you just walk away?

For every special event, you went to this restaurant. Great food, great atmosphere and great prices. You've can easily say 95% of your meals have been super, and then suddenly this one bad revolting desert. Do you just never come back?

I'm sure somewhere in there you would voice your displeasure in an attempt to get them to change it, make it better, before going somewhere else.

Thats what we are doing here, today, with ME3's ending.

I don't think this video was making the "People are mad cause the ending isn't happy" point. Just cause they had the word "happy" in there doesn't mean they're referring to the state of the ending, but the player's emotional response to it.

The message they're going for is that stories go in the direction their characters push them to go (good stories anyways), not in the direction their audiences want them to go. And while, the public can make the argument that they understand the characters, ultimately its the creators that know their creations better. ME certainly failed in its story ending, but setting the precedent that players should be able to demand the story be changed isn't going to suddenly make better video game stories.

Mike Kayatta:

Personally, I didn't like the ending, and while I may wish it was different, it wasn't. Changing it now would be the equivalent of asking me to pause Titanic and tell you about how the ship didn't sink. The moment that movie was released, the ship sank. That's what "happened." Anything I may say differently now is superflous (then again, I guess there are some people who like Obi-Wan's new krayt dragon roar). For a creative producer to offer to sell me a canon-jettisoning patch altering an ending that I may or may not like, to me, is ludicrous. It's an option though. Their option. The important thing to remember is that words such as "need" have no place in this discussion. There is no divine requirement that they shift a story they have spent over five years creating, and nor do we, the players, have a divine right to anything different than what we already got. If they choose to play around with it, so be it. I'm not in favor, but it's not my story.

Perfectly put, thank you. Titanic part reminded me how I used to comfort my little brother when he was frightened by scary scenes in movies.

It doesn't really matter if we liked it or not. That was the ending we were given. There aren't any magical DLCs that can erase it from existence. Whatever they offer me now, I'll always remember confusion I felt as I watched those differently colored explosions wondering what the hell happened with -insert plot hole here-

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