Eve Online Council Chairman to Resign for Treatment of Suicidal Player

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Eve Online Council Chairman to Resign for Treatment of Suicidal Player

The player responsible for encouraging the harassment of a suicidal gamer has apologized, and announced his intentions to consider resignation.

It's just like that age-old adage: Gaming conventions are all fun and games until an influential player gets drunk, dons a wizard cap, and encourages people to harass a deeply depressed gamer until he commits suicide. Such were the events of last weekend's 2012 Eve FanFest, during which the chairman of the Eve Online Council of Stellar Management, Alexander Gianturco (perhaps better known as "The Mittani") went on a five-minute-long bullying tirade against a recently-divorced player whom his group had recently blown apart in game. A "dramatic" reading of the player's reaction to the death culminated in Gianturco muttering the following: "Incidentally, if you want to make the guy kill himself, his name is [REDACTED]. He has his own Corp. Find him." Now, amidst the PR fallout of his actions, Gianturco has written a detailed apology for what he considers to be his "unacceptable" behavior.

Gianturco's first public response to events came in the form of a Tweet, presumably posted as he stepped off his airplane home from the event. "Just landed," he wrote. "Step one, apologize profusely. Step two, resign. Step three, send all my isk to the victim. Entirely my fault and unacceptable."

Shortly after, Gianturco took to the official Eve Online forums where he issued a more in depth apology:

"This has been hanging over my head since Thursday when I stumbled away from the Alliance Panel with a vague sense that I had done something horrible. I didn't know the extent of how much of a shitheel I had been until today, when footage of the presentation went up. As many of you now know, I gave out the in-game character name of a Mackinaw miner if anyone had wanted to blow him up - except that I was so smashed that I didn't recall exactly what I said (as anyone who was there can tell you). When I came to the forums the other day and saw threads complaining about my behavior - not remembering what I'd said - I assumed that I was enduring the usual anti-Goonswarm trolls, and posted something like "deal with it~" in my usual 'The Mittani' way.

Then I landed, and saw the article listing my actual quote.

Christ.

I feel absolutely ashamed of my behavior at the Alliance Panel. It's one thing to play a villain in an online roleplaying game - when I post on these forums or on twitter, I usually do so as 'The Mittani', and do my level best to convince everyone that I'm an unrepentant space villain, as that kind of facade provides an in-game advantage to me and my alliance. But I am not that character in real life, as anyone who has met me can attest. I went way, way, /way/ past the line on Thursday night by mocking the Mackinaw miner at a real-life event. I, as a person, am not the entity that I play in EVE; I am not actually a sociopath or a sadist, and I certainly don't want people to kill themselves in real life over an internet spaceship game, no matter what I may say or do within the game itself. CCP may say 'EVE is Real', but EVE is not real - and the line between the game and reality should not be overstepped.

I'm relieved to discover that the Mackinaw miner is doing fine and mining away, despite being blown up by Goonswarm in-game. He deserves, and he has, my heartfelt apologies - here in public as well as a private apology. There's no excuse for what I did - while some might try to use my inebriation as a mitigating factor, I put myself in that compromised mental state, and the guilt of that is entirely mine.
"If I could go back in time and not have included the slide mentioning the miner, I would do so. While the Eve Online character "The Mittani" would never apologize for any sort of villany in game, I myself, as Alex Gianturco, feel utterly ashamed and sickened by my behavior."

While Gianturco failed to confirm his resignation within the post, he later revealed that he is currently "considering" the action while the other members of the Council have a chance to examine and comment on his actions. You can find the video of Gianturco's controversial presentation in the video above, beginning around the one hour and twelve minute mark.

Source: Develop-Online

Permalink

At least he gave an honest apology and will likely step down (as it is the tasteful thing to do). Not really anything more he can do to rectify the situation short of helping out the guy he made fun of in some way.

Mike Kayatta:
"...except that I was so smashed that I didn't recall exactly what I said (as anyone who was there can tell you)..."

Excuses invalidate apologies, unfortunately. The only true apology is an unconditional (or unqualified) one.

When we make excuses during an apology, we're demonstrating that we're mostly worried about how others will think of us afterward. A sincere apology focuses on how we think about the person we've wronged.

There's a world of difference between, "I'm sorry that this happened to you," or "I'm sorry that I *accidentally* did this to you," and "I'm sorry that I did this to you."

EVE is a game about groups of bastards competing to be the biggest bastard in a battle for money and power

At least I can see how he got EVE confused with real life then.

Dastardly:

Mike Kayatta:
"...except that I was so smashed that I didn't recall exactly what I said (as anyone who was there can tell you)..."

Excuses invalidate apologies, unfortunately. The only true apology is an unconditional (or unqualified) one.

He's not saying he made the comment because he was drunk, he's saying he didn't remember what he said until he saw the quote.

And all is good in the world.

Yeah, to me, he said something stupid, and in the video it did seem to be a single throwaway line ( I dont follow EVE ), and he's apologised, resigned and sent a gift to the offended party. So long as there's no idiots taking him up on his words, and I hope there's a system in place to report those who would, I'll hope the guy is ok, and able to brush it off as a dumb piece of abuse uttered by a drunk guy.

I think there's a world of difference between a line of abuse, and a continued attack on someone.

Mike Kayatta:
While Gianturco failed to confirm his resignation within the post, he later revealed that he is currently "considering" the action while the other members of the Council have a chance to examine and comment on his actions.

What, he thinks he's going to get out of this without resigning as long as he sounds contrite enough? For someone so in love with playing a bad guy he doesn't understand what it means to smell blood in the air, because for once it's HIS blood.

This guy runs the biggest fleet of griefers in the entire game he is lying about his apology.

DVS BSTrD:

EVE is a game about groups of bastards competing to be the biggest bastard in a battle for money and power

At least I can see how he got EVE confused with real life then.

Dastardly:

Mike Kayatta:
"...except that I was so smashed that I didn't recall exactly what I said (as anyone who was there can tell you)..."

Excuses invalidate apologies, unfortunately. The only true apology is an unconditional (or unqualified) one.

He's not saying he made the comment because he was drunk, he's saying he didn't remember what he said until he saw the quote.

That's the impression I got as well. After the "Christ" part its pretty clear he knows he was 100% wrong.

He should be more worried about criminal prosecution. His actions were tantamount to yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre.

Still think going to conventions are cool?

Probably, probably not.

I don't think this person should have to 'step down' from this game. Yes, what he did was wrong. Yes, it merited an apology, but in the end, this is just a game, not the real world, and by all accounts the 'victim' in this appears to be fine, so I'm under the impression that no permanent harm came from it.

Dastardly:
Excuses invalidate apologies, unfortunately. The only true apology is an unconditional (or unqualified) one.

When we make excuses during an apology, we're demonstrating that we're mostly worried about how others will think of us afterward. A sincere apology focuses on how we think about the person we've wronged.

There's a world of difference between, "I'm sorry that this happened to you," or "I'm sorry that I *accidentally* did this to you," and "I'm sorry that I did this to you."

I agree. Making a point of saying that "some" might try to use alcohol as an excuse and then going right ahead and putting the blame for what he said squarely on the booze shows a lack of sincerity. Also, stating that he'd completely forgotten what he'd said when he later defended his actions comes across as "I'm sorry - but really I didn't know what I was doing for the last several days..."

He probably was just a bit pissed and got carried away, but the slide and the mockery were entirely predetermined. He seemed pretty in control to me for someone who was apparently so smashed he can't remember what he said and I'm sure he isn't nearly as sorry about it as he's making out.

This kind of thing should carry consequences for leaders and public figures. If he's remotely sincere in his belief in this principle then he should absolutely step down.

Fappy:

DVS BSTrD:

EVE is a game about groups of bastards competing to be the biggest bastard in a battle for money and power

At least I can see how he got EVE confused with real life then.

Dastardly:

Excuses invalidate apologies, unfortunately. The only true apology is an unconditional (or unqualified) one.

He's not saying he made the comment because he was drunk, he's saying he didn't remember what he said until he saw the quote.

That's the impression I got as well. After the "Christ" part its pretty clear he knows he was 100% wrong.

I disagree. He makes a point of saying that it's entirely his fault that he was so inebriated. He infers that it was the fault of the alcohol rather than taking responsibility directly. Also, watching the video I find it hard to believe that he was so far gone that he was unable to recall anything even when called out on it later in the forums. He makes several excuses for his actions attempting to shift the blame on circumstances beyond his control.

It's still hard to condone what he did, but at least the Other Guy seems to be fine, and this does sound like an actual, genuine apology. I can also see how he's letting the rest of the Council review the whole thing first, since it's one hell of an ordeal if the Chairman of the CSM suddenly buggers off right after the elections are finally done (Just thinking objectively here for a second).
ALso, if the second part of the tweet was genuine, that Mackinaw dude may get quite the consolation if he is really that into the game. What with Goonswarm being the biggest Alliance in the game, and The Mittani being the boss, I imagine he has quite a bit lying around.

rolfwesselius:
This guy runs the biggest fleet of griefers in the entire game he is lying about his apology.

He seemed rather clear about how he is not his in-game character. I can get why a guy would roleplay as a villain in a game like EVE while not being so in real life.

I'm thinking that maybe the guy's rectified his mistakes, but like some posts above, I think it does depend on the sincerity of his apology.

totally heterosexual:
And all is good in the world.

OK..that's it. I'm caving. Your profile pic. What's up with dis?

EDIT: Changing my position, new information: Check out this link for an interview with the dude himself http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-mittani-hero/
EDIT EDIT: Changing position again
http://i.imgur.com/BR83Z.png

UnderGlass:

Dastardly:
Excuses invalidate apologies, unfortunately. The only true apology is an unconditional (or unqualified) one.

When we make excuses during an apology, we're demonstrating that we're mostly worried about how others will think of us afterward. A sincere apology focuses on how we think about the person we've wronged.

There's a world of difference between, "I'm sorry that this happened to you," or "I'm sorry that I *accidentally* did this to you," and "I'm sorry that I did this to you."

I agree. Making a point of saying that "some" might try to use alcohol as an excuse and then going right ahead and putting the blame for what he said squarely on the booze shows a lack of sincerity. Also, stating that he'd completely forgotten what he'd said when he later defended his actions comes across as "I'm sorry - but really I didn't know what I was doing for the last several days..."

He probably was just a bit pissed and got carried away, but the slide and the mockery were entirely predetermined. He seemed pretty in control to me for someone who was apparently so smashed he can't remember what he said and I'm sure he isn't nearly as sorry about it as he's making out.

This kind of thing should carry consequences for leaders and public figures. If he's remotely sincere in his belief in this principle then he should absolutely step down.

I was thinking that about the slide and the way he mentioned alcohol.

Although with the slide, he's always described this as something where he tries to stay pretty much permanently drunk whilst there, so he could have done that in non-complete control too.

I don't know, I want to acknowledge the potential weakness in his apology and the wrongness of his actions, but I don't want to hang a guy either, especially since I don't actually know him in any way. I think in my head as long as people actually leave the other person alone I'm going to think of this as closed and hope something like it doesn't happen again? I think I want to care more about the prevention and treatment of the wrong than the punishment of it. I've done lots of stupid things and said lots of stupid things I've come to regret later

antipunt:
I'm thinking that maybe the guy's rectified his mistakes, but like some posts above, I think it does depend on the sincerity of his apology.

totally heterosexual:
And all is good in the world.

OK..that's it. I'm caving. Your profile pic. What's up with dis?

THANK YOU. Somebody needed to ask this at some point.

OT: Yeah, the guy's an ass and got what he deserved really, as far as I'm concerned.

jurnag12:
It's still hard to condone what he did, but at least the Other Guy seems to be fine, and this does sound like an actual, genuine apology. I can also see how he's letting the rest of the Council review the whole thing first, since it's one hell of an ordeal if the Chairman of the CSM suddenly buggers off right after the elections are finally done (Just thinking objectively here for a second).
ALso, if the second part of the tweet was genuine, that Mackinaw dude may get quite the consolation if he is really that into the game. What with Goonswarm being the biggest Alliance in the game, and The Mittani being the boss, I imagine he has quite a bit lying around.

rolfwesselius:
This guy runs the biggest fleet of griefers in the entire game he is lying about his apology.

He seemed rather clear about how he is not his in-game character. I can get why a guy would roleplay as a villain in a game like EVE while not being so in real life.

On his command his alliance has taken control of nearly all sources of Oxygen isotopes in the game strangling all the fuel supplies of every player in the game.
Now they are the only ones who can afford to field capital ships for sustained periods of time.
They say their goal is to ruin the game.
They perform mass killing and ganking.
They are from the fucking something awefull forums.
They bribe voters for the player run council.
The guy who was being bullied has been targeted by his fleet and is now under constant danger.

One of the more interesting parts of this is how he's the CEO of Goonswarm (or pieces of the former group known as Goonswarm or something, I don't know, I just read about EVE, don't actually play it so a lot of the politics go over my head) and a lot of people are either defending him/attacking him purely for political in-game reasons. I almost want the guy to stay in his position just to see what a shitstorm this causes in EVE (power politics in EVE makes for good reading).

This is why you don't let Goonswarm members, especially higher-ups, have any sort of 'official' position with the game.

Blind Sight:
One of the more interesting parts of this is how he's the CEO of Goonswarm (or pieces of the former group known as Goonswarm or something, I don't know, I just read about EVE, don't actually play it so a lot of the politics go over my head) and a lot of people are either defending him/attacking him purely for political in-game reasons. I almost want the guy to stay in his position just to see what a shitstorm this causes in EVE (power politics in EVE makes for good reading).

Eh that's what he's always done. The whole Mittani personna was created to piss people off and what with his BoB actions and spy network and stuff he's always causing a fuss. In contrast the reaction to this in many ways is pretty darn tame
http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-mittani-hero/
http://jestertrek.blogspot.co.uk/

BrotherRool:

Blind Sight:
One of the more interesting parts of this is how he's the CEO of Goonswarm (or pieces of the former group known as Goonswarm or something, I don't know, I just read about EVE, don't actually play it so a lot of the politics go over my head) and a lot of people are either defending him/attacking him purely for political in-game reasons. I almost want the guy to stay in his position just to see what a shitstorm this causes in EVE (power politics in EVE makes for good reading).

Eh that's what he's always done. The whole Mittani personna was created to piss people off and what with his BoB actions and spy network and stuff he's always causing a fuss. In contrast the reaction to this in many ways is pretty darn tame
http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-mittani-hero/
http://jestertrek.blogspot.co.uk/

Fair enough, it's probably just because I'm seeing it from an outsider's point of view.

Blind Sight:

BrotherRool:

Blind Sight:
One of the more interesting parts of this is how he's the CEO of Goonswarm (or pieces of the former group known as Goonswarm or something, I don't know, I just read about EVE, don't actually play it so a lot of the politics go over my head) and a lot of people are either defending him/attacking him purely for political in-game reasons. I almost want the guy to stay in his position just to see what a shitstorm this causes in EVE (power politics in EVE makes for good reading).

Eh that's what he's always done. The whole Mittani personna was created to piss people off and what with his BoB actions and spy network and stuff he's always causing a fuss. In contrast the reaction to this in many ways is pretty darn tame
http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-mittani-hero/
http://jestertrek.blogspot.co.uk/

Fair enough, it's probably just because I'm seeing it from an outsider's point of view.

I'm not insider either, I just enjoy reading the stuff :D. I guess maybe the normal but 'thinking' anti-Mittani people have all been a bit mellow and pro-Mittani cos they don't like getting involved in hype fests, the other people who I don't read (goony types :D) might be kicking up a storm

BrotherRool:

Blind Sight:

BrotherRool:

Eh that's what he's always done. The whole Mittani personna was created to piss people off and what with his BoB actions and spy network and stuff he's always causing a fuss. In contrast the reaction to this in many ways is pretty darn tame
http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-mittani-hero/
http://jestertrek.blogspot.co.uk/

Fair enough, it's probably just because I'm seeing it from an outsider's point of view.

I'm not insider either, I just enjoy reading the stuff :D. I guess maybe the normal but 'thinking' anti-Mittani people have all been a bit mellow and pro-Mittani cos they don't like getting involved in hype fests, the other people who I don't read (goony types :D) might be kicking up a storm

Honestly if he pulled a Karttoon for no other reason then to just be a bastard that would be hilarious.

antipunt:

OK..that's it. I'm caving. Your profile pic. What's up with dis?

What about it?

totally heterosexual:

antipunt:

OK..that's it. I'm caving. Your profile pic. What's up with dis?

What about it?

It looks like it comes from a japanese tentacle hentai.

I was all set to be snarky about "announced his intentions to consider resignation" (what?), but that is honestly one of the best public apologies I've ever read.

rolfwesselius:

totally heterosexual:

antipunt:

OK..that's it. I'm caving. Your profile pic. What's up with dis?

What about it?

It looks like it comes from a japanese tentacle hentai.

1 out of 3 right. Good effort.

rolfwesselius:

On his command his alliance has taken control of nearly all sources of Oxygen isotopes in the game strangling all the fuel supplies of every player in the game.
Now they are the only ones who can afford to field capital ships for sustained periods of time.
They say their goal is to ruin the game.
They perform mass killing and ganking.
They are from the fucking something awefull forums.
They bribe voters for the player run council.
The guy who was being bullied has been targeted by his fleet and is now under constant danger.

Aside from the "Ruin the game" and the " bribin' and bullyin' " bits, that sounds like perfectly valid tactics for a game like EVE.
If Goonswarm is such a problem, why doesn't everyone gang up on them and force them down with brute force and strength of numbers? Get a load of stealth bombers in there and run the weakest of their holds down till you have regained at least a semblance of a stable fuel supply line and start bombing them to hell like how they did Band of Brothers. Then wait for someone to come along and dethrone you a few years down the line.

Oh, for the love of Christ, people. What do you want from this guy? He made a few ill-advised comments and he's doing his best to make amends. Let it go, it didn't effect any of us anyway.

DVS BSTrD:

EVE is a game about groups of bastards competing to be the biggest bastard in a battle for money and power

At least I can see how he got EVE confused with real life then.

Dastardly:

Mike Kayatta:
"...except that I was so smashed that I didn't recall exactly what I said (as anyone who was there can tell you)..."

Excuses invalidate apologies, unfortunately. The only true apology is an unconditional (or unqualified) one.

He's not saying he made the comment because he was drunk, he's saying he didn't remember what he said until he saw the quote.

It's a soft excuse. He's perhaps not directly making the excuse himself, but he's inviting others to connect the dots for him. Otherwise, why bring it up at all, if your purpose is to apologize for what you've done?

(Answer: The idea is to create some distance between his choice and his action, creating at least the vague impression that it's not entirely his fault.)

Hey, I understand it. When I've done dumbass things in my life, I want to be sure that people know, "Look, I'm not the kind of person that normally does stuff like that," and that I'm personally disgusted with myself. But if that's what you want to convey, say that.

totally heterosexual:

rolfwesselius:

totally heterosexual:

What about it?

It looks like it comes from a japanese tentacle hentai.

1 out of 3 right. Good effort.

Oh, don't play coy you :3

jurnag12:

rolfwesselius:

On his command his alliance has taken control of nearly all sources of Oxygen isotopes in the game strangling all the fuel supplies of every player in the game.
Now they are the only ones who can afford to field capital ships for sustained periods of time.
They say their goal is to ruin the game.
They perform mass killing and ganking.
They are from the fucking something awefull forums.
They bribe voters for the player run council.
The guy who was being bullied has been targeted by his fleet and is now under constant danger.

Aside from the "Ruin the game" and the " bribin' and bullyin' " bits, that sounds like perfectly valid tactics for a game like EVE.
If Goonswarm is such a problem, why doesn't everyone gang up on them and force them down with brute force and strength of numbers? Get a load of stealth bombers in there and run the weakest of their holds down till you have regained at least a semblance of a stable fuel supply line and start bombing them to hell like how they did Band of Brothers. Then wait for someone to come along and dethrone you a few years down the line.

They got 7000 ships ready for battle. A gigantic spy network, if a coporation even suggests attacking them they get 7000 ships turning their bases to ash.
If you want to have a fuel line you would need to be able to fight 7000 ships 2000 of which are capital ships.
And even if an alliance becomes big enough it will be targeted and put on a threat list by the goons.
And How can you field thousands of capital ships if you cant even fuel them?
They also got VERY deep pockets they could hire thousands of mercenaries or just bribe alliance members.

Interesting page I found that contained the reaction from the Mackinaw guy himself to this whole business (In-game conversation, not very detailed, but it's something): http://liangnuren.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-mittani-hero/

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