BioWare Announces Post-Ending DLC for Mass Effect 3 [Updated!]

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My initial thought is that this will be a waste of time. Are these scenes that were already made that got cut for some reason (unlikely) or something they are just now tacking on to the experience?

digital warrior:

Aggieknight:
This all-but successfully proves my theory that Bioware had from the ending intended to provide the real ending via DLC. I guess that they could still do that, and the color that they are adding here just wraps up the "non-DLC" ending better.

Or I guess it could mean that BW realized their mistake and are pulling the real ending out of the planned DLC and releasing that, then moving forward with the actual gameplay of the DLC as a separate release. That may explain Hale's interview yesterday where she says that she hasn't been contacted by Bioware yet for more content. If the "real" ending was planned DLC and Hale has already recorded it...

Either way, I'm happy. Gawd the ending drives me nuts weeks later. For clarity - I (like almost everyone else that is upset) don't want a happy-panda ending. I want an ending that makes sense (why is joker fleeing with the people I was just with, why does it look like every planet in the galaxy just got nuked, why did my team watch as a charged down the hill alone).

oh their are lots more.
Like who originally thought of the crucible?
Did they know bout that frigging hologram kid?
How does the crucible even do what it does?
If the red ending kills me does it kill everyone With implants like biotics or just cybernetic?
Why cant I just take control of the reapers and Tell them to turn on each other can I do that?
How does the magic green space light change all life and what does this mean in the practice sense?
Why can I not argue the holograms logic when I just spent the entire game contradicting it? Hell why cant I argue with him at all?
Why does Shepard just go along with it without a fight?
Wait reapers had teleport tech is that what that beam was?
Even with the magic green space light their is still a difference between half organic and synthetic life, and if their isn't how in the name of Zeus crackling buthole did the robots spontaneously gain organic bits?
Why is this giant explosions of the mass relays different?
Seriously how did any civilization build the crucible if they didn't know about the ai in the citadel?
Why did sovereign need to unlock the citadel if this kid was controlling it anyway, couldn't he just unlock it himself?
If every reaper is a different species why do they all look alike? we've seen them try to make a reaper terminator why no others?
Why is my nose now bleeding?
WHO WROTE THIS AND WHY DID THEY THINK IT WAS A GOOD IDEA?

oh man i feel better now feel free to add unanswered questions to the list

(and no do not try to give an explanation yourself, the game should give me the option to find out, the writers didn't give half an ass to try and explain and they should have, your own explanations does not change the fact that the game itself has none of these answers)

I can answer that it was Casey Hudson's Idea. Now I will add a question. Why the fuck did they not fire Casey Hudson for doing this bullshit and why the hell are they protecting him saying this is ALL or Bioware's art not just ass hole Hudson?!

Money grubbing. That's all I see. Money grubbing and dickery.

The_Lost_King:

digital warrior:

Aggieknight:
This all-but successfully proves my theory that Bioware had from the ending intended to provide the real ending via DLC. I guess that they could still do that, and the color that they are adding here just wraps up the "non-DLC" ending better.

Or I guess it could mean that BW realized their mistake and are pulling the real ending out of the planned DLC and releasing that, then moving forward with the actual gameplay of the DLC as a separate release. That may explain Hale's interview yesterday where she says that she hasn't been contacted by Bioware yet for more content. If the "real" ending was planned DLC and Hale has already recorded it...

Either way, I'm happy. Gawd the ending drives me nuts weeks later. For clarity - I (like almost everyone else that is upset) don't want a happy-panda ending. I want an ending that makes sense (why is joker fleeing with the people I was just with, why does it look like every planet in the galaxy just got nuked, why did my team watch as a charged down the hill alone).

oh their are lots more.
Like who originally thought of the crucible?
Did they know bout that frigging hologram kid?
How does the crucible even do what it does?
If the red ending kills me does it kill everyone With implants like biotics or just cybernetic?
Why cant I just take control of the reapers and Tell them to turn on each other can I do that?
How does the magic green space light change all life and what does this mean in the practice sense?
Why can I not argue the holograms logic when I just spent the entire game contradicting it? Hell why cant I argue with him at all?
Why does Shepard just go along with it without a fight?
Wait reapers had teleport tech is that what that beam was?
Even with the magic green space light their is still a difference between half organic and synthetic life, and if their isn't how in the name of Zeus crackling buthole did the robots spontaneously gain organic bits?
Why is this giant explosions of the mass relays different?
Seriously how did any civilization build the crucible if they didn't know about the ai in the citadel?
Why did sovereign need to unlock the citadel if this kid was controlling it anyway, couldn't he just unlock it himself?
If every reaper is a different species why do they all look alike? we've seen them try to make a reaper terminator why no others?
Why is my nose now bleeding?
WHO WROTE THIS AND WHY DID THEY THINK IT WAS A GOOD IDEA?

oh man i feel better now feel free to add unanswered questions to the list

(and no do not try to give an explanation yourself, the game should give me the option to find out, the writers didn't give half an ass to try and explain and they should have, your own explanations does not change the fact that the game itself has none of these answers)

I can answer that it was Casey Hudson's Idea. Now I will add a question. Why the fuck did they not fire Casey Hudson for doing this bullshit and why the hell are they protecting him saying this is ALL or Bioware's art not just ass hole Hudson?!

Probably because he practically runs the Mass Effect division of Bioware, seriously almost anything ME-related, be it books or anime or games, will need to go through him first, so he's hardly going to fire himself (neither will EA) for making endings that are so broad and vague which allows them to milk the series later on beyond just prequels and spin-offs.

Will I play it? Most likely yes.

Will I like it? Doubt it.

If they add a little more closure though, than perhaps I can stop buying Bioware games without having hate towards the company.

To clarify: I promised myself I wouldn't buy another EA game. My only exception to this rule was Mass Effect 3 since I loved Bioware after KoTOR and NWN.

WonderWillard:

Falsename:

WonderWillard:

So, if you support the 'actual' writers, does that mean people who liked the ending can support the 'actual' reviewers, who have given the game perfect scores? Whether or not something is poorly written is completely opinionated. Don't you dare insult someone just because they actually enjoyed the ending, and ended their Mass Effect trilogy on a high note.

That's one thing that drives me fucking insane, when people who hated the ending claim that those who liked ending aren't "true" or "hardcore" fans. I've played the first Mass Effect on day 1, and have read every book and comic and have countless playthroughs on the first two games, and I actually really like the ending.

More OT: Nothing is going to satisfy the "retake Mass Effect"-ers. Even if Bioware <did> change the endings, gave them a happy ending like they have been so moronically demanding, the would still bitch. They would claim that it should have been there since launch day, or the game would still be ruined for them, etc. And since Bioware has made it clear that they will not change the ending, the rage will just continue. Nothing will stop the rage, except time.

I've found a lot of people from the retake movement have all got rather differentiated opinions on what they should add or change or remove. Some think it's the lack of options, some the rather abruptness of it all and some think it's the plot holes that're the disappointment.

But I think the common factor in it all is that the writing is genuinely bad. It's pretty much all that the opinions have in common, from the retake movement that is.

Now other 'gamers' or just anyone with an opinion can go on and on about how they're all 'whiners' and they're 'entitled' or whatever the hell names have been thrown out there. But the fact of the matter is it's not a bad movement, it's not a bad thing to ask Bioware to change the ending.

Now of course the come-back to that is 'it ruins the artistic integrity' of the game. Counter-argument to that is that the Ending itself was against the artistic integrity. The ending, as a whole, was corrupted.
Now the specifics I don't know exactly. Was it Hudsen making the final judgement or EA breathing down Bioware's throats?

Now we can argue about this till the Sun sets, but it's in God's hands now. I'm pleased that there's a movement like the Retake one. It's a step forward for the community not a step backwards.

Try to remember that.

The "Retake" movement is filled with out of control rage. People were making personal attacks against Bioware and its employees, for christ's sake. The idea itself that gamers are frustrated with a game's ending, and think that it should be changed, may or may not be a bad thing. The fact that people are "demanding" a new ending, and they want to "retake" Mass Effect is just too much. Can you imagine what people who are not Bioware fans, or outside the gaming industry, must be thinking of this ridiculous controversy?

I'm just happy that Bioware is sticking to their guns on the ending. The fact that they are even releasing some additional content to flesh out the ending shows how much they care about the fan base, no matter how immature or unreasonable they are being.

There's a very small amount of people who 'personally attack' Bioware employees. I think it's more 'don't let a rotten egg spoil the dozen' deal than what the general group does.
Most are tasteful and respectful, I'd say all of them but there's got to be at least one or two.

As for what the non-gamers must think... honestly why did that even come up? It this issue doesn't concern you then what does it matter? Whenever I play rugby I'm not wondering what those who play soccer must be thinking about me.

You may think they're entitled because they're 'demanding' a better ending but that's not the case at all. They're asking, not demanding; they're asking. But you don't get anywhere with simple niceties so they use words like 'demand' and 'deserve' because it has a bigger impact. It shows the amount of commitment, that doesn't mean they will just walk into Bioware's office and say 'what the hell we demanded it!'

I honestly don't understand the counter arguements to the retake-me movement. Why are you so upset? Is it ignorance? Does the simple idea of people protesting something so trivia upset you? Does the fact that they might actually win make you angry?
Do you want to just relax and take a step back and realise that no matter how this turns you're barely going to be affected... at all?

Some people love a good argument. Arguing is fun, I'll admit it. But perhaps you were just put on the wrong side of the line? "Patriotism is your conviction that your country is better because you were born in it": I think this applies to more situations than just national pride. Religious children often have had religious parents, but some of them question this logic and decide their faith for themselves. Perhaps you should do the same. Weigh out the pros and cons of the 'retake' movement and decide for yourself if you really think they deserve all the heat they've been getting.

Not trying to get too philosophical here. Just my opinion on the matter.

Atmos Duality:

He should be thrilled. It'll give him a chance to rail against something for another easy video.

...Well played, good sir. I doff my hat to you.

digital warrior:

Aggieknight:
This all-but successfully proves my theory that Bioware had from the ending intended to provide the real ending via DLC. I guess that they could still do that, and the color that they are adding here just wraps up the "non-DLC" ending better.

Or I guess it could mean that BW realized their mistake and are pulling the real ending out of the planned DLC and releasing that, then moving forward with the actual gameplay of the DLC as a separate release. That may explain Hale's interview yesterday where she says that she hasn't been contacted by Bioware yet for more content. If the "real" ending was planned DLC and Hale has already recorded it...

Either way, I'm happy. Gawd the ending drives me nuts weeks later. For clarity - I (like almost everyone else that is upset) don't want a happy-panda ending. I want an ending that makes sense (why is joker fleeing with the people I was just with, why does it look like every planet in the galaxy just got nuked, why did my team watch as a charged down the hill alone).

oh their are lots more.
Like who originally thought of the crucible?
Did they know bout that frigging hologram kid?
How does the crucible even do what it does?
If the red ending kills me does it kill everyone With implants like biotics or just cybernetic?
Why cant I just take control of the reapers and Tell them to turn on each other can I do that?
How does the magic green space light change all life and what does this mean in the practice sense?
Why can I not argue the holograms logic when I just spent the entire game contradicting it? Hell why cant I argue with him at all?
Why does Shepard just go along with it without a fight?
Wait reapers had teleport tech is that what that beam was?
Even with the magic green space light their is still a difference between half organic and synthetic life, and if their isn't how in the name of Zeus crackling buthole did the robots spontaneously gain organic bits?
Why is this giant explosions of the mass relays different?
Seriously how did any civilization build the crucible if they didn't know about the ai in the citadel?
Why did sovereign need to unlock the citadel if this kid was controlling it anyway, couldn't he just unlock it himself?
If every reaper is a different species why do they all look alike? we've seen them try to make a reaper terminator why no others?
Why is my nose now bleeding?
WHO WROTE THIS AND WHY DID THEY THINK IT WAS A GOOD IDEA?

oh man i feel better now feel free to add unanswered questions to the list

(and no do not try to give an explanation yourself, the game should give me the option to find out, the writers didn't give half an ass to try and explain and they should have, your own explanations does not change the fact that the game itself has none of these answers)

Indoctrination theory makes ALOT of things make sense

It might be too much too hope for but they havnt directly refuted it yet

I just finished up my second playthrough with my FemShep and, honestly, even though I love these games I'm probably not going to play them again for almost a year.

I'm going to wait for all, or at least most, of the DLC of ME3 to come out before playing it again. This was not the case of ME2: I always bought it's DLC rightaway and played it, even though I wasn't playing ME2 at the time. This is what the bad ending did to me: it has killed my enthusiasm.

Way to go Bioware- now the only DLC I'm interested in is a "True Ending" DLC- and you might not even put that out. I could care less about events that happen along the way- like the heavy hinted at "Retake Omega" mission.

I'll just check YouTube videos for what this "Extended Cut" is. If it doesn't involve any gameplay or choice why bother doing otherwise?

i dunno man. i just don't see any way they can fix what they've done without spending a lot of money, ergo, not free.
it's gonna go down in gaming history as one of the biggest muck-ups, they can't change that now. and honestly, i'm fine with that.
yeah i hated the ending, but no, i don't want them to change it.
i wanted them to get it right the first time: the propper time.
but they didn't, so i'm fine with that. i'm over it. i've forgotten mass effect... there's nothing more for me.

Falsename:

WonderWillard:

Falsename:

I've found a lot of people from the retake movement have all got rather differentiated opinions on what they should add or change or remove. Some think it's the lack of options, some the rather abruptness of it all and some think it's the plot holes that're the disappointment.

But I think the common factor in it all is that the writing is genuinely bad. It's pretty much all that the opinions have in common, from the retake movement that is.

Now other 'gamers' or just anyone with an opinion can go on and on about how they're all 'whiners' and they're 'entitled' or whatever the hell names have been thrown out there. But the fact of the matter is it's not a bad movement, it's not a bad thing to ask Bioware to change the ending.

Now of course the come-back to that is 'it ruins the artistic integrity' of the game. Counter-argument to that is that the Ending itself was against the artistic integrity. The ending, as a whole, was corrupted.
Now the specifics I don't know exactly. Was it Hudsen making the final judgement or EA breathing down Bioware's throats?

Now we can argue about this till the Sun sets, but it's in God's hands now. I'm pleased that there's a movement like the Retake one. It's a step forward for the community not a step backwards.

Try to remember that.

The "Retake" movement is filled with out of control rage. People were making personal attacks against Bioware and its employees, for christ's sake. The idea itself that gamers are frustrated with a game's ending, and think that it should be changed, may or may not be a bad thing. The fact that people are "demanding" a new ending, and they want to "retake" Mass Effect is just too much. Can you imagine what people who are not Bioware fans, or outside the gaming industry, must be thinking of this ridiculous controversy?

I'm just happy that Bioware is sticking to their guns on the ending. The fact that they are even releasing some additional content to flesh out the ending shows how much they care about the fan base, no matter how immature or unreasonable they are being.

There's a very small amount of people who 'personally attack' Bioware employees. I think it's more 'don't let a rotten egg spoil the dozen' deal than what the general group does.
Most are tasteful and respectful, I'd say all of them but there's got to be at least one or two.

As for what the non-gamers must think... honestly why did that even come up? It this issue doesn't concern you then what does it matter? Whenever I play rugby I'm not wondering what those who play soccer must be thinking about me.

You may think they're entitled because they're 'demanding' a better ending but that's not the case at all. They're asking, not demanding; they're asking. But you don't get anywhere with simple niceties so they use words like 'demand' and 'deserve' because it has a bigger impact. It shows the amount of commitment, that doesn't mean they will just walk into Bioware's office and say 'what the hell we demanded it!'

I honestly don't understand the counter arguements to the retake-me movement. Why are you so upset? Is it ignorance? Does the simple idea of people protesting something so trivia upset you? Does the fact that they might actually win make you angry?
Do you want to just relax and take a step back and realise that no matter how this turns you're barely going to be affected... at all?

Some people love a good argument. Arguing is fun, I'll admit it. But perhaps you were just put on the wrong side of the line? "Patriotism is your conviction that your country is better because you were born in it": I think this applies to more situations than just national pride. Religious children often have had religious parents, but some of them question this logic and decide their faith for themselves. Perhaps you should do the same. Weigh out the pros and cons of the 'retake' movement and decide for yourself if you really think they deserve all the heat they've been getting.

Not trying to get too philosophical here. Just my opinion on the matter.

You do raise a good point, that ultimately I personally won't really be affected by it at all. I guess I see that the people who hate the ending are far more vocal than those who didn't, and I get frustrated seeing people bitch about it all over the place. I try to be vocal as someone who did like the ending, to make sure it's not complete negativity. But you're right, I should chill out sometimes. I think the same could be said for a whole lot of people out there.

Ever think that maybe the fanboy rage and millions of fan-fic endings that have been circulating were maybe the whole idea behind the shite endings?

I got my main Shep waiting right before the ending.

Until then I will just play some MP and wait for the power point slides DLC.

juraigamer:
Money grubbing. That's all I see. Money grubbing and dickery.

How the hell is it "money grubbing" when it's free?

Did anyone feel that the game was kind of half finished ? Not just the endings, but I mean but a few things in ME1 & 2 (Dark Energy, N7:lost operative for example) seem to fall down a hole.

Kinguendo:
Nope, humanity has been getting too much credit. Heres the ending I envisioned:

... Yeah, I know. Its infinetly better than the current ME3 ending AND actually lets the franchise continue legitimately.

Uh... how is it infinitely better? Much like the ending we currently have, the end result is that everything you've done throughout the entire trilogy is completely meaningless. If this were a standalone game, maybe they might've gotten away with a Shaggy Dog Story where the whole thrust of the narrative is its pointlessness - but after three games which stress the ways in which one person can make a real difference, it's a bit much to just throw your hands up and say "Nope, that was a waste of 120 hours, sorry."

GuerrillaClock:
We're still talking about the DLC, aren't we? I'm not saying it's a good or sound strategy, I actually think it's incredibly shitty, but more people are talking about the release of Mass Effect 3 DLC in general than they would be if there was simply a decent, complete ending that didn't need patching.

Technically, more people would have been talking about Mass Effect 3 as a whole and praising its strengths if the ending hadn't gone splat the way it did.

And I think that's something BioWare understands now: the only way to shift the discourse away from "My God that ending was horrible" is to create an ending that works - if they move quickly enough, they might be able to get people talking about the rest of the game instead. :)

Diana Kingston-Gabai:

Kinguendo:
Nope, humanity has been getting too much credit. Heres the ending I envisioned:

... Yeah, I know. Its infinetly better than the current ME3 ending AND actually lets the franchise continue legitimately.

Uh... how is it infinitely better? Much like the ending we currently have, the end result is that everything you've done throughout the entire trilogy is completely meaningless. If this were a standalone game, maybe they might've gotten away with a Shaggy Dog Story where the whole thrust of the narrative is its pointlessness - but after three games which stress the ways in which one person can make a real difference, it's a bit much to just throw your hands up and say "Nope, that was a waste of 120 hours, sorry."

Yes, fighting ultimately for nothing... but that was always the most likely possibility when fighting a vastly superior force. Especially when you consider the things you spent the last 2 games fighting 1 in each and now there are tons of them, its the most likely thing that would happen. Why would they win? Because they want to? It just makes more sense that they would lose. And what do you mean it was for nothing? You play RPGs like this for the immersive story, not to be bullshitted in the last minute.

Vault101:
Indoctrination theory makes ALOT of things make sense

It might be too much too hope for but they havnt directly refuted it yet

And then there's this.

Look, with all due respect to the Indoctrination Theory fans - yes, I've read the videos and the articles and the discussions, and I understand where you're coming from - it's not an ending. It's even less of an ending than what we have in that it loops back on itself. How is this a better option?

Kinguendo:
Yes, fighting ultimately for nothing... but that was always the most likely possibility when fighting a vastly superior force.

Especially when you consider the things you spent the last 2 games fighting 1 in each and now there are tons of them, its the most likely thing that would happen. Why would they win? Because they want to? It just makes more sense that they would lose.

That's broadly true, but the previous two games have you facing similar odds and finding a way out. Hell, you could argue that's been a driving component of BioWare games for years: you fight gods, emperors, whole armies, in spite of the fact that your chances of success are low. But if you persevere, you'll succeed. That's a satisfying mechanism both narratively (the Hero's Journey and all) and ludologically (you are rewarded for 40-something hours of gameplay with a conclusion that affirms your own success at beating the game's challenges).

And what do you mean it was for nothing? You play RPGs like this for the immersive story, not to be bullshitted in the last minute.

Absolutely. Which is why I wouldn't accept an ending where every deeply engaging and emotional part of the story is rendered meaningless because the premise was flawed to begin with (ie: you set out to stop the Reapers but the Reapers can't be stopped so you're doomed anyway).

Dear idiots at Bioware and pretentious morons everyone.

Stop using the artistic integrity excuse. You fundamentally shifted the priority and dynamics of the series away from a story driven Bioware game with (quite poor at the time, but could have
been improved on) RPG and TPS mechanics to a flat out shooter fan chasing Gears clone.

YOU. HAVE. NO. ARTISTIC. INTEGRITY.

Just because its shitty writing doesnt mean its somehow sacrosanct compared to the rest of the game.

The ending is abrupt, leaves you with about a thousand times more questions than it answers, nearly of of which are the negative "what the fuck is going on there" variety.

This whole debacle HAS set a dangerous precedent for the industry. Contrary to what the whiners who are whining about the whiners when they try and defend this fundamentally shit ending would have you believe, for gamers, its a positive one. It sets the precedent that for game developers, their fanbases now may not just lie down and take a piss poor ending with shitty, confusing writing and next to no closure. Particularly if you have LIED about the ending. Bioware can be in denial all they want, but they LIED about the ending, fundamentally.

The fans who complained and asked for more from the ending didnt expect too much, neither are they entitled. They are simply victims of a developer who promised too much, and clearly didnt have the talent, or maybe just the inclination to make good on those.

Now we will doubtless have more shit writing to justify shit writing.

Like an epilogue that explains why your squad inexplicably fled like cowards aboard the normandy to make a miraculous escape. Or that the fleets maybe werent destroyed by the same force that crippled the normandy. And subsequently if they survived then they didnt simply just starve to death (especially the quarians and turians) or did from infighting or whatever.

But still, a very small minority of people had sufficient lack of taste to tolerate the shitty writing and general lack of closure that was the ending, so I guess that means its perfectly fine, and to alter the ending is to violate its artistic integrity. Even if you arent a moron, and know that games go through many iterations in development, and even in some cases like Mass Effect take a massive shift in game design to cater to the third person shooter market. But changing the series to cater to shooter fans doesnt violate its artistic integrity. No sirree. But asking for probably one of the worst endings in modern video game history to have some effort put into this time in the form of a rewrite definitely does.

But hey, at least the free DLC will probably add a few more badly written epilogue style question marks to hang over the huge, fucking terribly written question mark that is the ending itself.

And then Bioware can take that shitty ending thats damn near ruined the universe and make an FPS spinoff series or something awful like that. But I wont care. I wont even be able to replay the magnificent ME1, because I know what a giant turd it leads to in ME3.

The entire ending debacle isn't new, Hollywood has been doing this forever. How many movies couldwe all think of where the same kind of thing happened?

And I think we need to remember that due to the rapid growth of the games industry, there were plenty of paychecks open for "artistic talent", and consequently the games industry is flooded with wanna-be Hollywood directors, writers and animators.

But does game company management have the history with artistic failure to see it coming and steer the project away from it? It really looks to me like the answer here was "No". Instead, it looks like they were caught up in their own vision of getting a "dramatic, powerful, epic ending for the series" and forgetting completely about the audience.

And before anyone brings up the purity of artistic vision thing, I call bullcrap on the whole argument. Art is a medium of communication, the entire point is to communicate with the audience, so you can't EVER have your "pure" vision unless you yourself are the audience. If the audience is other people, the medium must work for them, or you have failed as an artist.

Kinguendo:
... Yeah, I know. Its infinetly better than the current ME3 ending AND actually lets the franchise continue legitimately.

How the HELL is that any better? It's throwing your fanbase to the ground, taking a shit down their throats, and still wanting them to buy your next game.

People are angry because they feel that the choices they made, in a game series where making choices was central to everything, had a negligible effect on the ending. So your solution is a new ending, where all choices are rendered completely meaningless, all continuity between the games completely destroyed, an ending where the main character learns nothing, accomplishes nothing, and, at the last, is physically reduced to nothing.

That's the kind of shit that flies in one-off artsy games where everyone can appreciate the shocking nature of futility as it's presented in-game, not as the stunning finale to a game trilogy 5 years in the making.

Diana Kingston-Gabai:

Kinguendo:
Yes, fighting ultimately for nothing... but that was always the most likely possibility when fighting a vastly superior force.

Especially when you consider the things you spent the last 2 games fighting 1 in each and now there are tons of them, its the most likely thing that would happen. Why would they win? Because they want to? It just makes more sense that they would lose.

That's broadly true, but the previous two games have you facing similar odds and finding a way out. Hell, you could argue that's been a driving component of BioWare games for years: you fight gods, emperors, whole armies, in spite of the fact that your chances of success are low. But if you persevere, you'll succeed. That's a satisfying mechanism both narratively (the Hero's Journey and all) and ludologically (you are rewarded for 40-something hours of gameplay with a conclusion that affirms your own success at beating the game's challenges).

And what do you mean it was for nothing? You play RPGs like this for the immersive story, not to be bullshitted in the last minute.

Absolutely. Which is why I wouldn't accept an ending where every deeply engaging and emotional part of the story is rendered meaningless because the premise was flawed to begin with (ie: you set out to stop the Reapers but the Reapers can't be stopped so you're doomed anyway).

No, you do not face similar odds in the first 2 games. You fight 1 Reaper and 1 Reaper-Human hybrid that is quite limited while still being allowed to travel around the universe without much in the way of resistance, not the same as all of the reapers controlling most of the universe. Given that Shepherd has already died once before the entire Reaper race appeared, I would say they are pretty much forked.

And as I said, I would not end the entire franchise on "You Lose. Byeeeeeee!". It would allow for a legitimate continuation of the franchise while giving a reasonable end and explanation for the events, are you honestly saying you didnt expect to beat the Reapers since the first Mass Effect? Because I was never under the illusion that this "vastly superior race of super-sized, sentient weapons of mass destruction" wouldnt lose to a bit of human elbow grease.

Buretsu:

Kinguendo:
... Yeah, I know. Its infinetly better than the current ME3 ending AND actually lets the franchise continue legitimately.

How the HELL is that any better? It's throwing your fanbase to the ground, taking a shit down their throats, and still wanting them to buy your next game.

People are angry because they feel that the choices they made, in a game series where making choices was central to everything, had a negligible effect on the ending. So your solution is a new ending, where all choices are rendered completely meaningless, all continuity between the games completely destroyed, an ending where the main character learns nothing, accomplishes nothing, and, at the last, is physically reduced to nothing.

That's the kind of shit that flies in one-off artsy games where everyone can appreciate the shocking nature of futility as it's presented in-game, not as the stunning finale to a game trilogy 5 years in the making.

So... the fans want a completely unrealistic ending where they beat a vastly superior race who uses your own bodies against you and not to mention everything that made every race in the Universes lives better was controlled by the Reapers. Its like going to war with someone whos army is better in every way AND they control your transport AND base of operations, those are literally unwinnable odds. Saying "You win because you tried." is freaking patronizing, they would not win!

Kinguendo:

So... the fans want a completely unrealistic ending where they beat a vastly superior race who uses your own bodies against you and not to mention everything that made every race in the Universes lives better was controlled by the Reapers. Its like going to war with someone whos army is better in every way AND they control your transport AND base of operations, those are literally unwinnable odds. Saying "You win because you tried." is freaking patronizing, they would not win!

Yeah, since thats what the first games were all about. Just because you, mac walters and casey hudson decided that some pretentious "war is hell, this battle is unwinnable" motif in the last five minutes is all cool, edgy and grimdark doesnt mean it actually works.

Go take a look at fiction that has nihilistic and bleak endings. They COMMIT to it from the beginning. They dont spend 2 installments worth telling a soaring space opera about one mans battle against all odds and being victorious only to turn around in the last five minutes like an immature child and renege on that style.

Like it or not, the artistic integrity of Mass Effect was violated by its own writers and their clear difference of opinion where to take the trilogy at the end. That its fucking terribly written is bad enough. That its written in a manner that harkens to a a teenage school pupil getting bored of writing something for school so he half-asses in the ending in a way that doesnt make sense to get it done quicker is even worse.

One of the central themes for Mass Effect has NEVER been "the futiliy of war against a vastly superior race". You are just PLAIN WRONG if you think that is the game.

The theme of mass effect is TRIUMPHING AGAINST THESE ODDS AND MAKING THE CHOICE IN HOW YOU WANT TO DO THAT.

Do you go for the themes of galactic unity, cooperation, friendship. i.e. PARAGON.

Or do you go for the hardass route of sacrifices, hard decision making and victory at any cost. i.e. Renegade.

Instead of something reflecting that with the ending, we get some weird, disjointed piece of shit that looks like it was cobbled together from the initial main ending and several terrible ideas, and ultimately leaves the story in a state where virtually nothing has been accomplished and nearly everything has been destroyed or tossed aside in a manner that suggests nothing but a bad end.

You know the ending your proposing? Well in a Bioware game, or at least a game made by what used to be bioware, that kind of of ending is one among many and reached by YOUR CHOICES.

Kinguendo:
And as I said, I would not end the entire franchise on "You Lose. Byeeeeeee!". It would allow for a legitimate continuation of the franchise while giving a reasonable end and explanation for the events, are you honestly saying you didnt expect to beat the Reapers since the first Mass Effect? Because I was never under the illusion that this "vastly superior race of super-sized, sentient weapons of mass destruction" wouldnt lose to a bit of human elbow grease.

The Reapers are vastly superior, but they're neither invincible nor infallible. And this cycle is already substantially different from the others: the Reapers are facing not one dominant species but several working in unison (different races means different strategies, different approaches to war, etc.), they're not in control of the Citadel and the Relay system, and - most significantly - Sovereign's destruction has allowed for the reverse-engineering of Reaper technology (ie: Thanix cannons).

Given all these elements - most of which is largely due to Shepard's direct efforts - you at least have a fighting chance.

Right or wrong it's nice to see a company that cares about its fans.

Kinguendo:

Buretsu:

Kinguendo:
... Yeah, I know. Its infinetly better than the current ME3 ending AND actually lets the franchise continue legitimately.

How the HELL is that any better? It's throwing your fanbase to the ground, taking a shit down their throats, and still wanting them to buy your next game.

People are angry because they feel that the choices they made, in a game series where making choices was central to everything, had a negligible effect on the ending. So your solution is a new ending, where all choices are rendered completely meaningless, all continuity between the games completely destroyed, an ending where the main character learns nothing, accomplishes nothing, and, at the last, is physically reduced to nothing.

That's the kind of shit that flies in one-off artsy games where everyone can appreciate the shocking nature of futility as it's presented in-game, not as the stunning finale to a game trilogy 5 years in the making.

So... the fans want a completely unrealistic ending where they beat a vastly superior race who uses your own bodies against you and not to mention everything that made every race in the Universes lives better was controlled by the Reapers. Its like going to war with someone whos army is better in every way AND they control your transport AND base of operations, those are literally unwinnable odds. Saying "You win because you tried." is freaking patronizing, they would not win!

They won, because they had the Crucible, inside which was millions of years of work, and the essences of the countless numbers of races that the Reapers made extinct. In other words, they won because they had the power of ridiculous Deux ex Machina bullshit on their side, not just 'because they tried'.

Mikeyfell:

BakaSmurf:

OFF-TOPIC: One thing I'm certain that we can all agree on, is that the melancholy piano piece that plays during the final cutscene is, in spite of the various terrible things going on in front of our very eyes, a freaking masterpiece.

Both of these had better make their way into the game. The first video could be an easter egg for the insane play through or something and the extended Anderson conversation had better be there no matter what. I WILL have my genetically impossible love babies with Tali... I WILL!

And I thought most all of the music in the ME series was pretty awesome, but yes. It is a melancholy masterpiece.

Kinguendo:

Buretsu:

Kinguendo:
... Yeah, I know. Its infinetly better than the current ME3 ending AND actually lets the franchise continue legitimately.

How the HELL is that any better? It's throwing your fanbase to the ground, taking a shit down their throats, and still wanting them to buy your next game.

People are angry because they feel that the choices they made, in a game series where making choices was central to everything, had a negligible effect on the ending. So your solution is a new ending, where all choices are rendered completely meaningless, all continuity between the games completely destroyed, an ending where the main character learns nothing, accomplishes nothing, and, at the last, is physically reduced to nothing.

That's the kind of shit that flies in one-off artsy games where everyone can appreciate the shocking nature of futility as it's presented in-game, not as the stunning finale to a game trilogy 5 years in the making.

So... the fans want a completely unrealistic ending where they beat a vastly superior race who uses your own bodies against you and not to mention everything that made every race in the Universes lives better was controlled by the Reapers. Its like going to war with someone whos army is better in every way AND they control your transport AND base of operations, those are literally unwinnable odds. Saying "You win because you tried." is freaking patronizing, they would not win!

If I want realism, I will watch the news, or go outside, or call my dad.

While I wasn't really for changing or editing the ending (Note: I have not played the game, but I feel changing a story so that it's a happier ending is a bit childish, but it could actually be a bad ending that I just haven't seen), I think Bioware and EA have handled this well. For the people that liked the ending, they can ignore the DLC, and the people who didn't at least get something. Also the free part is nice, otherwise this would just be obvious exploitation. As it stands, though, well played, Bioware and EA, well played.

Ceress:

Well since I picked Synthesis I just assumed that because everything was part synthetic then that wouldn't be as much of a problem...somehow...I never was any good at biology.

Neither is Bioware, apparently (Spoiler: Robots don't have any DNA). They don't pay much attention to physics either, apparently. (Robot parts don't just show up out of nowhere)

Diana Kingston-Gabai:

Vault101:
Indoctrination theory makes ALOT of things make sense

It might be too much too hope for but they havnt directly refuted it yet

And then there's this.

Look, with all due respect to the Indoctrination Theory fans - yes, I've read the videos and the articles and the discussions, and I understand where you're coming from - it's not an ending. It's even less of an ending than what we have in that it loops back on itself. How is this a better option?

It means that I chose corretnly..if its true then my shepard broke free from indoctrination and had awoken back on earth...what happnes next? mabye she can make anotehr dash for the beam

but as Ive said so many times before..probably too much to hope for

CloggedDonkey:
While I wasn't really for changing or editing the ending (Note: I have not played the game, but I feel changing a story so that it's a happier ending is a bit childish, but it could actually be a bad ending that I just haven't seen), I think Bioware and EA have handled this well. For the people that liked the ending, they can ignore the DLC, and the people who didn't at least get something. Also the free part is nice, otherwise this would just be obvious exploitation. As it stands, though, well played, Bioware and EA, well played.

this has got NOTHING to do with how happy the ending isnt (but on that point..why not? you know how sadistic ME3 is?)

its got everything to do with the fact the the ending does nothing...goes back on ALOT we know about the mass effect universe...its just terrible in every way imaginable, and as easy as it is to dismiss this as fans being fans we actually have a point here

Falsename:

WonderWillard:

Falsename:

I've found a lot of people from the retake movement have all got rather differentiated opinions on what they should add or change or remove. Some think it's the lack of options, some the rather abruptness of it all and some think it's the plot holes that're the disappointment.

But I think the common factor in it all is that the writing is genuinely bad. It's pretty much all that the opinions have in common, from the retake movement that is.

Now other 'gamers' or just anyone with an opinion can go on and on about how they're all 'whiners' and they're 'entitled' or whatever the hell names have been thrown out there. But the fact of the matter is it's not a bad movement, it's not a bad thing to ask Bioware to change the ending.

Now of course the come-back to that is 'it ruins the artistic integrity' of the game. Counter-argument to that is that the Ending itself was against the artistic integrity. The ending, as a whole, was corrupted.
Now the specifics I don't know exactly. Was it Hudsen making the final judgement or EA breathing down Bioware's throats?

Now we can argue about this till the Sun sets, but it's in God's hands now. I'm pleased that there's a movement like the Retake one. It's a step forward for the community not a step backwards.

Try to remember that.

The "Retake" movement is filled with out of control rage. People were making personal attacks against Bioware and its employees, for christ's sake. The idea itself that gamers are frustrated with a game's ending, and think that it should be changed, may or may not be a bad thing. The fact that people are "demanding" a new ending, and they want to "retake" Mass Effect is just too much. Can you imagine what people who are not Bioware fans, or outside the gaming industry, must be thinking of this ridiculous controversy?

I'm just happy that Bioware is sticking to their guns on the ending. The fact that they are even releasing some additional content to flesh out the ending shows how much they care about the fan base, no matter how immature or unreasonable they are being.

There's a very small amount of people who 'personally attack' Bioware employees. I think it's more 'don't let a rotten egg spoil the dozen' deal than what the general group does.
Most are tasteful and respectful, I'd say all of them but there's got to be at least one or two.

As for what the non-gamers must think... honestly why did that even come up? It this issue doesn't concern you then what does it matter? Whenever I play rugby I'm not wondering what those who play soccer must be thinking about me.

You may think they're entitled because they're 'demanding' a better ending but that's not the case at all. They're asking, not demanding; they're asking. But you don't get anywhere with simple niceties so they use words like 'demand' and 'deserve' because it has a bigger impact. It shows the amount of commitment, that doesn't mean they will just walk into Bioware's office and say 'what the hell we demanded it!'

I honestly don't understand the counter arguements to the retake-me movement. Why are you so upset? Is it ignorance? Does the simple idea of people protesting something so trivia upset you? Does the fact that they might actually win make you angry?
Do you want to just relax and take a step back and realise that no matter how this turns you're barely going to be affected... at all?

Some people love a good argument. Arguing is fun, I'll admit it. But perhaps you were just put on the wrong side of the line? "Patriotism is your conviction that your country is better because you were born in it": I think this applies to more situations than just national pride. Religious children often have had religious parents, but some of them question this logic and decide their faith for themselves. Perhaps you should do the same. Weigh out the pros and cons of the 'retake' movement and decide for yourself if you really think they deserve all the heat they've been getting.

Not trying to get too philosophical here. Just my opinion on the matter.

Good to see someone else that thinks so. Want to know how I know there's life out there? None of it has tried to contact us.

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