BioWare Announces Post-Ending DLC for Mass Effect 3 [Updated!]

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I'm cool with that. The worst part of the ending was the lack of closure anyway.

Did anyone else thing it was ironic that after talking about how much they listened to the fans in the FAQ about the new ending they closed the comments? Especially since they said that they listened to the fans. My question is, which fans did they listen too? They obviously didn't listen to most of the fans who complained that the ending was nonsensical and contradicted everything up to that point. Also they are leaving in the space magic sooo I'm not exactly filled with confidence in bioware's ability to fix this. I didn't think that the ending was bad when observed on its own merits but the fact that this was the ending for a game where our choices were supposed to matter it makes no sense and does not fit within any of the themes of the series in any way shape or form.

klaynexas3:

Imbechile:

klaynexas3:

i know. how dare he think games are a respectable medium for telling a story or showing an experience. shame on him. i hate it when people think games deserve any respect. which is why i hated the movement to change the ending. games aren't an art, they aren't respectable, so why care when one isn't a gift from god? if it isn't worth any respect, why should they have to work hard on games? why should we get good games if they won't be respected for it?

Whoa, hold it there!!
Respecting something =/= art, and also, not art =/= not respectable

I think most games aren't art, but I respect them and I think games are the best medium out there.
So everything I said still stands. Audacity is acting more childish than the people he critices.

then what exactly makes something art? i apologize that i jumped to my conclusions though, but so many people who say games aren't art also act like games don't deserve respect.

I wouldn't say that people who say games aren't art act like games don't deserve respect. They are probably fed up with the whole "we must push games towards art" thing that is sometimes, like in this case, used as a cheap argument to dismiss criticism.

As for what is art? I still haven't given it much thought, but most games, especially AAAs, that play it safe, are not art. They are products first and foremost, made to make as much money as possible, and no amout of passion you put in it is going to change the fact that it's still a product.

Zen Toombs:
Hmm. I wonder how many people that said "RAWR NEVER BIOWARE AGAIN" will change their tune if this free DLC pack is actually good? my answer: lots

It won't be. Stupid ending is still stupid. Flashcards won't make it less stupid. Nothing will make it less stupid. In order for the game to have a good ending, then the ending itself has to be changed.

Addendum - No to mention closure? What closure? There's not enough infrastructure to feed everybody left around Earth. Not enough planets in normal ftl distance to feed everybody either(remember, viable planets are relatively rare and besides except for the live ships the dextro races have no way of growing anything on a viable dextro planet anyway). The Normandy CAN'T be near enough to get back to earth within a year given that it was transferring through a mass effect relay at the time of kablooey. The Normandy doesn't exactly keep a large supply of food on board. Certainly not longer than 3-4 months which means everybody starves to death. Then there's the fact that it's trashed and NOBODY ELSE knows where the fuck it is. It is not possible to turn the current pile of radioactive shit into a decent ending.

Can't sully what you have never had
Let's hope they actually listened to peoples problems with the ending

BakaSmurf:

WanderingFool:

BakaSmurf:

Casey Hudson decided to cut most of this conversation out, because he thought it would have been TOO LONG, just FYI. Really says a lot about his creative process.

MOTHERFUCKER!

That was beautiful, AND THEY WENT AND CUT IT FROM THE FINAL GAME!?

Yup, and you can thank that hack jerkhole Casey Hudson for that, since he had complete control over the ending of the game, this entire fiasco is his fault. How he managed to get in a postition to have total dominance of the reigns for the last 20 minutes of the game is beyond me. Blackmail on a certain high-up EA employee? Bah, whatever, he's a hack writer and I hope that he doesn't get any further work in this field for the rest of his life, one epic series' ending ruined by his "writing" is one more than was nessicary.

Yeah, I've had it with Casey's writing. Hes a hack writer and shitty producer, you want proof? Look at the ending, I mean who dropped the ball to stop this fiasco from happening? Either way, it looks like Bioware just threw there hands up and said, "Buy our shit and get out".

Thanks Casey Hudson, I will not go out of my way to not buy anything that has your hand in it from now on.

Hopefully once this comes out people can put this silly little controversy to rest and actually find something else to talk about. It actually staggers me how this game can be 40 hours long, have 39 hrs 50 minutes of solid excellence and all people focus on is the last 10 minutes that aren't so solid. It's exactly like what happened with Deus Ex last year. That game was so good, but two weeks later, all anyone could ever talk about were the stupid boss fights.

That said, people are going to bitch no matter what they do. I quite like how Bioware has decided not to change the endings, but instead expand upon them, which is exactly what they needed. If you change the endings, then suddenly the issue becomes up in the air about whether or not the new one or the originals are canon, which would be unfortunate for people who don't have access to the DLC. Really, what killed the enndings was how they were presentation, so if Bioware could fix that up then they'd be fine.

klaynexas3:

then what exactly makes something art? i apologize that i jumped to my conclusions though, but so many people who say games aren't art also act like games don't deserve respect.

Art is as follows

Dictionary.com:

1.The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture,...: "the art of the Renaissance"
2. Works produced by such skill and imagination

Now ask the question. Was Mass Effect (or any videogame) made by hardworking people with creativity? or by people soullessly trying to make a buck?

It could be either.

Also, Doesn't EA's demanding involvement already ruin the prospect of it being art?

Maybe?

From what I see, me, Imbechile, and like minded people are sick of the argument that "demanding changes to the ending (is wrong/stupid because it) ruins mass effect's status as art." WHY does Mass Effect need to be art? It also falls into the dangerous straw-man logic of:

You didn't like the ending? This means you must be a ignorant plebeian cry baby who is demanding changes to a finished product.
You liked the ending? This means you're a Biodrone sheeple that will buy anything as long as it has Mass Effect written on it.

My thoughts are that video-games don't need to be art and frankly with an ending like that at the end of the Mass Effect trilogy, I don't think could be art to begin with. BUT THAT'S JUST ME. I didn't demand changes to the ending, but I understand why the hell everyone hates it.

It's going to be interesting to see what they offer us this summer considering the price (or lack of) but even if it is a wonderful conclusion to the story, undoing all the bad will that they seem to have acrued, it will not change the fact that the game is sloppy throughout.

The problem as I see it is that the creators seemed to forget where the strength of the series was. Not in it's combat, not in it's overarching storyline, but in the personal connections the player makes with the characters. ME1 hinted at this with some of the conversations between teammates and then ME2 hit the ball out of the park with some of the most touching story telling I have seen in games. ME3 almost completely ignored this progress (with the exception of the Genophage arch) deciding to instead focus on the bigger picture with it's cutscenes (ironic considering Shepard doesn't get involved until the last mission.)

If I was being generous I would say they just promised more than they could deliver (the Molyneux syndrome) but based on how good the story telling was in ME2, coupled with the characters that conveniantly appear even though you sacrificed them in earlier games, I am more inclined to blame laziness.

To finish on a high though; I still think a mediocre Bioware game is better storytelling than most other games being released these days.

Imbechile:

klaynexas3:

Imbechile:

Whoa, hold it there!!
Respecting something =/= art, and also, not art =/= not respectable

I think most games aren't art, but I respect them and I think games are the best medium out there.
So everything I said still stands. Audacity is acting more childish than the people he critices.

then what exactly makes something art? i apologize that i jumped to my conclusions though, but so many people who say games aren't art also act like games don't deserve respect.

I wouldn't say that people who say games aren't art act like games don't deserve respect. They are probably fed up with the whole "we must push games towards art" thing that is sometimes, like in this case, used as a cheap argument to dismiss criticism.

As for what is art? I still haven't given it much thought, but most games, especially AAAs, that play it safe, are not art. They are products first and foremost, made to make as much money as possible, and no amout of passion you put in it is going to change the fact that it's still a product.

i don't think anyone has actually said so far that the game doesn't deserve to be criticized, even if they think it's an art. most of the people claiming it's art only say bioware shouldn't completely rewrite the ending, but seem to have nothing against expanding it, as they are now. but still people get up-in-arms at these statements, call the idea pretentious to say that games are an art form, and then they act like it isn't as respectable as art. i've seen these people in other threads, not as much in this one, but other ones, like the extra credits one.

and what if there are copies of a painting by, i don't know, Rembrandt. is the picture itself still not an art? i would say that even something made for mass production can still be seen as an art, like a book or a movie

My favorite response to people who try to claim that something that's art is above criticism is this little image, although you can argue against the image still makes its point: i116.photobucket.com/albums/o4/Vulpix1000/Artfinal.png

Kingjackl:
Hopefully once this comes out people can put this silly little controversy to rest and actually find something else to talk about. It actually staggers me how this game can be 40 hours long, have 39 hrs 50 minutes of solid excellence and all people focus on is the last 10 minutes that aren't so solid.

You go do Disney World for two days. It's really fucking awesome. As you leave through the gates Mickey comes up and kicks you in the balls. While you're on the ground writhing in pain, he bends down and whispers how he wanted to make your experience truly memorable so you would talk about it for years to come.

Color me cautiously optimistic. The ending was utter tripe and nothing short of replacing it with something consistent with the ME universe and consistent with half-decent story-telling will make it better. But, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Awexsome:
True the child's play thing was most organized by the level-headed ones. But that still doesn't change the fact that the movement was mostly made up of the overreactionary ones. The niceness of the child's play donation was the exception to the rule.

Care to link your source?

I'd like to know where this "mostly" is coming from.

Dead Raen:
and it sounds like everyone wins.

You'd think that wouldn't you? But then you've still got wankers in this very thread taking shots at the people who weren't happy with the ending.

Kingjackl:
Hopefully once this comes out people can put this silly little controversy to rest and actually find something else to talk about. It actually staggers me how this game can be 40 hours long, have 39 hrs 50 minutes of solid excellence and all people focus on is the last 10 minutes that aren't so solid.

It's not that hard to understand, conclusions can split opinions down the middle.

Look at ANY long running TV show, and then look at the reactions to the ending. It can make it or break for some people.
Mass Effect 3 is the conclusion to 5 years of build-up. The ending was already going to divide people.

Xanthious:

Hevva:
Additionally, it'll be interesting to see how the DLC will manage to provide "additional closure" at the same time as staying true to the original vision of Mass Effect 3's writers.

From what's been floating around out there the actual writers' had pretty much zero input on the ending. The ending was all Casey. Hopefully they will actually let the professionals handle things this time.

can you give some links out to prove that? It sounds _very_ probable though.

Good, the endings to me were if anything "too short" rather than bad per say. Shepard picking the way in which the galaxy should evolve, now that the Cruxible has been finished? Okay I can get behind that, but what happens after you jump into the blue/green/red beam? Mass Effect 3 felt like a book that was just one chapter too short more than one that was poorly written.

A free DLC on the house that expands what happens and gives closure is fair enough, and assuming its at least a half decent wrap up to the game, will address what ever problems I had with the game. Haters are going to hate, but I'm looking forward to seeing what happens in the extended ending.

RatRace123:
Snip

.. RatRace? Is that you?

Oh wow, I didn't recognize you until I read your username. I see that you've taken a liking to the Mass Effect series just as well, with the cool Avatar being Wrex himself no? It's good to see you, hope you're doing well :}

OT: I fully agree with you- past that important mission everything feels truly rushed. Makes me question Bioware as to why they didn't take their time for maybe 3 months longer adding in more content so the stories stand out more then mere "side quest" feelings when you're actually doing very important quests that could change the fate of an entire specie's existence overall.

Still, what is your input on the DLC coming out this summer? I'm still pretty outraged personally that the team would consider the original ending to be 'art' when really-

Outcast107:
*sigh* I just wish bioware would just tell us what they are doing instead of being all hush hush about it. Hell I would like them to come out and say "Indoctrination theory is lies" and I would be cool with that.

Since i'm about 60% sure that what is going to happen and 40% sure it isn't. But whatever..hopefully bioware explains EVERYTHING about the damn ending. Though what I found odd is that they choose to say 'Cut scenes and epilogue scenes."

Why would they do this? isn't it..you know the same thing? How can we have a epilogue scene when Shepard dead and all of our crew is on some random planet. *Sigh*..summer can't get here soon enough.

I'm just so, so, so sad.... I've lost my faith in Bioware. I want Indoctrination because it would be so epic. But the more I think about the comments, the more pessimistic the outlook seems to be.

Don't see why folks would rage over this. At least, those that would cite "art shouldn't be changed" kind of rage. They aren't changing the ending. They've said as much. They're clarifying things. No different to a director's cut, or special edition of a movie. There wasn't any rage when Rango tacked on an extra minute to the end.

There's still going to be rage from those who thoroughly hated the ending. But those who just wanted a little bit of closure and to see the state of the galaxy that they left it in, well, hopefully they'll be satisfied. Or at least less angry.

Lovely Mixture:

klaynexas3:

then what exactly makes something art? i apologize that i jumped to my conclusions though, but so many people who say games aren't art also act like games don't deserve respect.

Art is as follows

Dictionary.com:

1.The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture,...: "the art of the Renaissance"
2. Works produced by such skill and imagination

Now ask the question. Was Mass Effect (or any videogame) made by hardworking people with creativity? or by people soullessly trying to make a buck?

It could be either.

Also, Doesn't EA's demanding involvement already ruin the prospect of it being art?

Maybe?

From what I see, me, Imbechile, and like minded people are sick of the argument that "demanding changes to the ending (is wrong/stupid because it) ruins mass effect's status as art." WHY does Mass Effect need to be art?

My thoughts are that video-games don't need to be art and frankly with an ending like that at the end of the Mass Effect trilogy, I don't think could be art to begin with. BUT THAT'S JUST ME.

how something ends defines whether or not something was art to begin with? that sounds a little backwards, i would say.

and if you ask me, what bioware did is what they should have done. they kept their ending, and only made it more encompassing and added more closure, without breaking from their story. but i think the people saying that they should do nothing are completely wrong. the guy Imbechile quoted before, calling him pretentious, that guy was childish, i'll admit to that. i just view art as something that has more respect than a simple game.

Valanthe:
Huh, this is -exactly- what I wanted to see. It's probably just gonna be some DA:O style text over some concept art/screenshots, but that's all I wanted, I can live with the bogus ending, I was just upset with basically being left hanging at the end.

Seems a long wait for such a simple ending, if that is the case. I mean, they don't have a fixed date, but it's at least three months until this thing hits the market. They better not be using the time to eat jaffa cakes or something.

If they made one of the scenes like this, I'll be thoroughly amused:

*Normandy flying away from Earth, chasing Harbinger*
*Normandy begins kicking his ass, but he flees towards the Relay*
*Normandy follows pursuit through the relay to finish Harbinger off so that their lead Reaper may be destroyed*
Hackett: Joker? Would you mind telling me what you're doing near that Relay?
Joker: Sir... FINISHING THIS FIGHT!

(Thank you, thank you, I should be a writer for BioWare. I'll be here all day.)

Anyways, I am very pleased this ending will allow them to continue their cannon ending while adding on to it, and not just rewriting the whole thing. However, I am pissed simply because I'll have to redo the entire Earth battle (which was painfully hard at times with the mass [no pun intended] banshee swarms), and then have to choose which ending I will pick again. (DO I STAY GREEN OR GO RED THIS TIME?!)

We'll see, Bioware. We'll see.

how something ends defines whether or not something was art to begin with? that sounds a little backwards, i would say.

I did not say that applied for all things, but admittedly that was an unnecessary exaggeration on my part (there are plenty of things with questionable conclusions that I would consider artistic and I still think Mass Effect has competent writing aside from the ending), but it does convey my point. You might say it's backwards, others might not. Art is about perspective.

And interestingly when you say "without breaking from their story." The very thing people hate about the ending is that they feel it breaks from the story.

Tigerlily Warrior:

Outcast107:
*sigh* I just wish bioware would just tell us what they are doing instead of being all hush hush about it. Hell I would like them to come out and say "Indoctrination theory is lies" and I would be cool with that.

Since i'm about 60% sure that what is going to happen and 40% sure it isn't. But whatever..hopefully bioware explains EVERYTHING about the damn ending. Though what I found odd is that they choose to say 'Cut scenes and epilogue scenes."

Why would they do this? isn't it..you know the same thing? How can we have a epilogue scene when Shepard dead and all of our crew is on some random planet. *Sigh*..summer can't get here soon enough.

I'm just so, so, so sad.... I've lost my faith in Bioware. I want Indoctrination because it would be so epic. But the more I think about the comments, the more pessimistic the outlook seems to be.

Idk. Bioware is teasing the hell out of us. One they are hyping the hell out of the DLC and what they are planning. yet they won't comment on anything at all. And they been saying they won't talk about the DLC tomorrow at PAX. UGH...curse bioware!

I really don't see this "Extended edition" making things a whole lot better, seeing how the plot-holes and overall piss-poor writing run deeper than something that could be hand-waved in a couple of lines.

Audacity:
Congratulations to all the people who pissed and moaned like entitled little bitches. You've proven that video games are not an art. You've also shown that if something is not what you want you will complain. You will bitch, piss, moan, complain and whine till you get your way.

Congratulations. You're children. Entitled little kids who scream and yell till they get what they want.

image

gabx:

NinjaDeathSlap:
Well, it still doesn't seem to fix the annoying CIRCULAR LOGIC of the Catalyst, the jarring twist of the ending, none of the mechanics of the endings actually being explained, and the Mass Relays being destroyed.

But it fixes the most pressing issue at least, and it does it for free, so I guess I can be grteful for that.

I'm kind of tired of people using the phrase "circular logic." Circular logic would imply that you have a premise and you use that premise to prove itself. The Catalyst's premise is that machine always rebel, etc. so he concludes that he needs to stop it. You might not agree with his premise, but it is not circular logic.

No, the premise is that Synthetics will wipe out Organics. So they wipe out advanced organics to keep synthetics from arising that will wipe out organics. Fucking textbook circular logic. Rebellion is in and of itself irrelevant.

So the utterly borken endings remain broken, but now we get more of them?
Thats terrible, but more closure, or any clousre at all would be nice. Better than nothing.

Zachary Amaranth:
Moviebob won't be happy with this.

Moviebob is wrong and by his own admission doesn't know what he's talking about when speaking about the endings or Biowares creative process.
Who cares if he's happy or not?

ravenshrike:
No, the premise is that Synthetics will wipe out Organics. So they wipe out advanced organics to keep synthetics from arising that will wipe out organics. Fucking textbook circular logic. Rebellion is in and of itself irrelevant.

The premise is that synthetics will wipe out all organics. So the Reapers are set up to harvest advanced civilizations at a specific point during their development to prevent that from happening, rather than wipe out all organic life.

It's a pretty clear distinction, and (like most of Mass Effect) a premise that's been used in SF before.

Caramel Frappe:
Snip

Yeah, it's me. I've been a big fan of ME since the first one came out, Wrex is my favorite character, so I decided to make him my avatar. And I am doing well, I trust you are too.

As for my opinion of the DLC. It's what I expected it would be, as disappointing as I found the ending (Hint: Very Very) I didn't think that they would seriously alter it in a DLC, at least not one that was going to come out soon, and not one that would be free.

As good as I thought the indoctrination theory was, I didn't think Bioware would actually adopt it, though I did hope. For me, the DLC is what I expected and it's what I wanted, realistically speaking anyway. I would've liked more additional content, and for them to actually change the ending, but for what the DLC is, I'm content with it. Though I probably wouldn't get it if it wasn't free.

No one (except for Valve) -plans- free DLC ahead of time, so I'm willing to bet that this really is what Bioware says it is.

Probably just a bunch of screenshots with text boxes that explain an assortment of character's post-ending lives and some of Shepard's consequences.

Raesvelg:
It's a pretty clear distinction, and (like most of Mass Effect) a premise that's been used in SF before.

And out of curiosity, in any of those places it was used before did the primary protagonist demonstrate empirically on not one but two separate occasions that the idea was bollocks?

After waiting about a month and replaying the ending, I've managed to piece together the broken bits of it myself. While I'm excited to see some more clarification from the people who actually wrote the ending, there isn't seemingly close to as many plot holes as people are making there out to be...

In fact, dare I say it. I actually like the ending.

Aw yeah, attempting to make the ending better by loading on what will NO DOUBT be equally stupid shit.

Place your bets on what it's gonna be folks. I got a dollar on "Extending that scene where they get out of the ship on a forest planet to show them all living in some stupid idyllic fishing village or some shit."

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