BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

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Mournblade94:

Mattlore:

No, you ARE allowed to complain about a game ending. Hell, people have been doing it for generations! You go onto a blog, forum, or video game news industry website and you write your review, people either agree or disagree and you move on with your life. What it's NOT is trying to drive a company into the ground with you incessant whining and self entitlement (Yes I use this term a lot, but frankly it's really the best way to sum up this whole ridiculous thing) and going as far as getting the BBB involved.

Other than the fact you misuse the word entitlement, tell me WHY I can't cause problems for a company. Elaborate please. The fact that you do not want me to is not a valid reason.

I have a consumer relationship with bioware. What you want me to do is inconsequential to the case at hand.

Entitlement: The belief that you have the right to a product, ideal, privilege, ect...Based on contact, or law.

It has been argued that yes, Bioware delivered on their contract to deliver an experience in which your decisions vastly shape the outcome of said experience. Many people commenting in here and other places have pointed out that yes; your choices DO have reaching and very different consequences on your game play...JUST NOT THE ENDING (Frankly the woman from the BBB was either hoping on a bandwagon or didn't even play the game)!!
Their product delivered on what was the base establishment and agreement (To Provide an interactive experience where your choices make drastic changes throughout the course of the journey) and everyone (For the most part) enjoyed 98% of the product.
You don't go to a restaurant, order a meal and demand that a new one be made just because you don't like the last bite. This is why RME is a stupid movement. Your consumer relationship with Bioware was fully fulfilled when you were having fun with the game. So suck it up butter-cup.

irishda:

And one more time just so we're clear:
I'm not saying "games should be the same as life". I'm pointing out the flawed reasoning that people's decisions in the game didn't matter because there were only three endings. A story is not defined by the last two pages, just as our lives are not defined by how we die, because even though the galaxy ends up in one of three ways, the state of that galaxy was determined by the player's decisions.

The three endings were not the problem. The three Bad endings were the problem. The final state of the galaxy after the endings actually has very little to do with the decisions shephard makes previous to the ABC yes/no/nor point.

the reason your point does not apply here is because lives are not defined the same way as art. Some M night shalamaln movies were great until the end. At the end the twist changed the paradigm of the movie.

The ending indeed changes a story. The ending can make or break a great story.

Actually there are people in history that are elevated or villified because of how they died, regardless of their previous deeds. So indeed I did not miss your point it was just not relevant.

Personally anything the BBB says I take with a grain of salt. They have been notorious for "pay to play" type shenanigans. i.e. Don't pay dues, bad rating, your business got reported, through them a little cash and it gets forgotten. To me its just someone jumping on the bandwagon to try to get a piece of the action. That is just my 2 cents though.

Well, I clearly remember the words "Widly different endings" being used at some point by the ME3 dev team, so that technically is false advertisement, I suppose. But you know what? I'm tired of this. We're not getting a new ending, because either Bioware or EA is stupid and doesn't like when their fans are happy, so I'll let's just let this drop. The ME series is over and done with, and the ending of ME3 spoiled any other game that might take place in the same setting.

In other words, Mass Effect has become Star Wars.

Mattlore:

Mournblade94:

Mattlore:

No, you ARE allowed to complain about a game ending. Hell, people have been doing it for generations! You go onto a blog, forum, or video game news industry website and you write your review, people either agree or disagree and you move on with your life. What it's NOT is trying to drive a company into the ground with you incessant whining and self entitlement (Yes I use this term a lot, but frankly it's really the best way to sum up this whole ridiculous thing) and going as far as getting the BBB involved.

Other than the fact you misuse the word entitlement, tell me WHY I can't cause problems for a company. Elaborate please. The fact that you do not want me to is not a valid reason.

I have a consumer relationship with bioware. What you want me to do is inconsequential to the case at hand.

Entitlement: The belief that you have the right to a product, ideal, privilege, ect...Based on contact, or law.

It has been argued that yes, Bioware delivered on their contract to deliver an experience in which your decisions vastly shape the outcome of said experience. Many people commenting in here and other places have pointed out that yes; your choices DO have reaching and very different consequences on your game play...JUST NOT THE ENDING (Frankly the woman from the BBB was either hoping on a bandwagon or didn't even play the game)!!
Their product delivered on what was the base establishment and agreement (To Provide an interactive experience where your choices make drastic changes throughout the course of the journey) and everyone (For the most part) enjoyed 98% of the product.
You don't go to a restaurant, order a meal and demand that a new one be made just because you don't like the last bite. This is why RME is a stupid movement. Your consumer relationship with Bioware was fully fulfilled when you were having fun with the game. So suck it up butter-cup.

Where your point fails is that yes everyone has sucked it up, but many of them will not trust bioware enough to purchase a game from them again. It is that pressure that bioware is listening to, not the whining. They obviously feel that enough people are disappointed enough to not purchase from them in the future. That is the goal. Let them know my Dollars matter. I got EXACTLY what I was entitled to with Bioware. Now I am letting them know it was unsatisfactory. That is where this is not an issue of entitlement. It is an issue of quality, and that is what you fail to see.

I played ME 1 and ME 2 at least 3 times each. The ending ruined the replayability for me and so I did not receive a product of the same caliber as ME1 and ME2. I got my money's worth for the previous incarnations and ME3 gave me less bang for the buck. I am letting Bioware know that. If they choose not to improve, then I will send my dollars elsewhere.

The disappointment with D&D 4th edition caused WOTC to change its course. Perhaps the same will happen with bioware. I am not entitled to anything bioware makes. But if they make games I have no faith will be a story I will enjoy, I will not buy it.

Since you like nicknames perhaps I will call you Lillypad. See lillypad, that is all there is to the relationship:) You don't have to like it.

Mattlore:

Entitlement: The belief that you have the right to a product, ideal, privilege, ect...Based on contact, or law.

It has been argued that yes, Bioware delivered on their contract to deliver an experience in which your decisions vastly shape the outcome of said experience. Many people commenting in here and other places have pointed out that yes; your choices DO have reaching and very different consequences on your game play...JUST NOT THE ENDING (Frankly the woman from the BBB was either hoping on a bandwagon or didn't even play the game)!!
Their product delivered on what was the base establishment and agreement (To Provide an interactive experience where your choices make drastic changes throughout the course of the journey) and everyone (For the most part) enjoyed 98% of the product.
You don't go to a restaurant, order a meal and demand that a new one be made just because you don't like the last bite. This is why RME is a stupid movement. Your consumer relationship with Bioware was fully fulfilled when you were having fun with the game. So suck it up butter-cup.

Then you used the word entitlement incorrectly. They don't have a belief they in fact have a right as a valid purchaser of the product. Entitlement would be if they hadn't actually purchased anything at all. Entitlement would be if they received the product for free. Because of their purchase they do have a right to complain about the quality of the product.

The BBB is in fact a perfectly valid place to submit a complaint of this nature. You're probably under the false assumption that the BBB is some government entity, and has some weight to impose a fine.

In truth the BBB is a more effective version of Metacritic. People submit complaint and those complaints affect the BBB reputation of businesses that are members of the BBB. As a consumer you are free to lookup the score and public complaints and choose to do business with someone based off of that score. The BBB is better than metacritic because it vets complains and actually does follow ups. It even posts if there was a resolution to the complaint. It is better in Business to Business transactions and in Large purchases since people don't seem to care to lookup a business if they are spending less than a grand on a product.

The opinion of the of the BBB Representative is not "hoping on the bandwagon". It is the opinion of an expert who reviews complaints and business practices for a living. She certainly did not play the game and you clearly didn't read the article ether. It is a review of complaints and in their opinion the complaints are constant and frequent enough to conclude that the audience was in some way deceived.

Bioware or EA has the right to respond on they BBB web sit and submit their counter to the complaint. Not responding will probably result in their rating being downgraded as their current rating is not A+ is as the BBB puts it
"BBB does not have sufficient background information on this business. BBB made two or more requests for background information from the business. BBB has not received a response from this business and/or has not been able to verify information received from this business."

The only reason it is not valid to submit a complaint about EA or Bioware to the BBB is that most people don't use it in their game purchases. They use Metacritic instead.

And per Metacritic it doesn't look like "most" people enjoyed it at all.
A simple analyis of the public comments shows
The top 25% rated it a 10
The median is a 5
The bottom 25% rated it a 0
Clearly the audiance appears to be split 50/50

The only thing with worse than ME3 in ratings is Skyrim for the PS3 which is explained by a buggy unplayable game at launch.

Most games follow the pattern of
Top 25% rate a game as 10
Top 50% rate a game as 10
Bottom 25% rate a game as 9 - 8

Examples
Mass Effect 3 10,5,0
Dragon Age II 8,4,1
Dragon Age 9.5,8,6
Skyrim PS3 9,1,0
FFX-2 10,9,5
Kingdoms of Amalur 10,9,8
Uncharted 3 10,10,9
Disgaea 4 10,10,9.25
Skyrim 360 10,10,9

another mass effect thread AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RELEASE ME FROM THIS CURSE (nah just kidding i like these threads)

chadachada123:

punipunipyo:
on one hand, I rage about the ending being just color filters in terms of "dynamic differences" when making choices...

I wanted to say to all who flamed about my statement "wow... looks like GoW, where is the story part of this game? what happens to characters? like mass2? from the trailer, I think it's going to be action packed, but less story driven, and from the grim of the whole look, and theme, I assumed it will have a rushed ending as well..." I just want to be nice and say "I told you so..." but that's besides the point...

EA/Bioware said not long ago, a new sets of ending is on the way... we should just be patience and wait for it, I think the rage was answered... I thik we should just let the guys in Bioware work it out, and we will see in few months...

It's not a new set of endings, though. It's the same ending, but with a couple of extra scenes to "clarify" some things. The actual problem (the ending being nonsensical and shitty) can't be solved with extra clarification unless you make it based on the indoctrination theory.

and there I was, thinking it was all good... I had so much hope... oh well... I'll just go to the corner and cry now...

viranimus:

Shinigami214:

May I direct you to this blog post which has a wealth of such examples, most of which are far more specific than than a quick skim off the ME3 website?

No, you may not. What your directing me to are NOT advertisements for the game. If what your pointing to is not an advertisement then it cannot support the claim of false advertisement. What your directing me to is interviews and articles that people interpret as promises. What your putting forth is just the public interpretation of promises via forum discussions and interviews filled with a whole lot of speculation, circumstantial evidence and out and out extrapolation. Not actual advertisements as in viable print/video advertisements where the advertisement says in no uncertain terms that this game will have X feature.

Ive still yet to see anything presented that is an "advertisement" that has not been disproven already (IE: the line about outcomes on the ME3 advertisement page) or that is not related to interviews or bioware forum posts that are based extensively in public misinterpretation/speculation. When that gem is presented I will back off on this, but even after dozens of quotes to prove me wrong and a month later its still not yet surfaced.

We disagree on a fundamental point. You believe that any sort of promotion that is not strictly paid-for advertising does not count as promotion.

I, and the U.S. advertising regulatory system (from what I can understand), believe otherwise.

Pointless to argue further, really.

I could persist in presenting a wealth of examples that (in my opinion) constitute examples of misleading promotion and advertising, but if you don't believe them to constitute advertising to begin with, there's no point.

AnarchistAbe:

GamesB2:

AnarchistAbe:
Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

We don't want [i]happy[i/] endings per se, we want meaningful endings that make sense and are affected by choice.

What you WANT is irrelevant. What you'll GET is companies playing it more safe than ever, to avoid getting sued by you whiny *insert derogatory expletive here*s.

Congratulations! You got what you wanted, though. That's all that really matters, right? This company, that you loved so much and created a series we all love, getting hit for false advertising because you all didn't like what happened. Congratulations!

You make an interesting prediction, but I don't see the logic.
False advertising is bad, always and without question.

I don't want my money back, I don't want to sue them for false advertising, I don't want to single out Bioware. I just want the last 15 minutes of that game wiped from my memory. It was stellar up until that point. Give me back those 15 minutes and all will be as it was.

Iron Criterion:

Caramel Frappe:
Also, I do not mind who judges me.. for insults or worse- I still believe fighting over the ending is worth my time.

And if people put this much effort into solving real issues the world would be a better place.

I had a nice reply lined up for this but then I saw one in the same vein that was done much better so I'm just gonna go and steal it.

SpiderJerusalem:

Oh great, another one of your kind of people. Needless bleeding hearts. The Britta Perry's of this world. "Don't complain about ANYTHING! Someone, somewhere, somehow is DYING or DEAD! Think about that! I'm socially aware because I realized that on a planet of 7 billion people, there might be someone, somewhere who might be worse off than me or you, so I can take a high ground and feel good about myself for pointing out to others that any and all complaints are void, because someone, somewhere has trumped it because they've got it worse!"

Luckily, from what I've seen, most people seem to grow up from that phase. Hopefully you will too.

I don't exactly like the whole mass effect controversy thing, but I think it's going to generate a lot more good than bad in the long term. What I don't like is the fact that some of the people who shout about how it's all entirely ridiculous, probably make the same remarks about how people don't do anything to show that companies are making easy choices - like continuous sequels, or generic fps remakes.

The scale at which this has gotten means that the companies have to take notice, and take into account what the consumers want more than they would normally. Whether you think this will cause an outcome for good or for bad, it doesn't matter that much - at least it will make an impact and I would rather the crowd have done something worthwhile than sit back and buy whatever was released.

This advertising business just helps my point; companies aren't working together internally anymore, each part is just going with what they've always done and expecting it will work because nothing has proven it to them otherwise.
Don't think about it as trying to force somebody into delivering what you want, more like giving someone who has lost direction a slap in the face to make them realise what was going on around them.

In a perfect world companies should only exist to please the consumer and regardless of how "realistic" your outlook on life is, people should still be working towards that ideal.

Wow. Appalling.

You know, I don't claim false advertisement whenever Nintendo claims they've made something new or when I buy a terrible game that claims it's fun on the back of the case. I don't know why this is even considered valid by anyone.

Devilnumber2:
Comments made in interviews and even full blown advertising campaigns should never be construed as promises. Why do any of us still do that? Haven't we had our expectations let down enough to realize we shouldn't believe what we're told until we get the game in our hands?

Guess not. Nerds gonna Rage, I spose.

Here is a concept: If you aren't going to do what you say, don't say it.

Current Status of EA, Bioware and all their Biodrone defenders:

[ ] Not Told
[X] Told
[X] Fucking Told
[X] Toldusaurus Rex
[X] Knights of the Told Republic
[X] Stone Told Steve Austin
[X] No Country for Told Men
[X] Toldorama
[X] The Told Man and The Sea
[X] The Great California Told Rush
[X] Told as Ice
[X] Told Yeller
[X] Baby It's Told Outside
[X] Batman: The Brave and the Told
[X] The Leprechaun and his Pot of Told
[X] I've got a TOLDen Ticket
[X] Universal TOLDier
[X] The Man that Told the World
[X] Gary Toldman
[X] Cash4Told.com
[X] TOLD LIKE THE FIST OF THE NORTH STAR
[X] The Chronicles of Toldia: The Lion, The Witch and the Toldrobe
[X] Toldeneye 64
[X] The 40 Year Told Virgin
[X] Texas Told'Em Poker
[X] Told Navy
[X] Told McDonald Had a Farm
[X] Tolderone
[X] Cure for the Common Told
[X] Toldtino's Pizza Rolls
[X] ToldPlay
[X] BattleTolds
[X] Austin Powers: Toldmember

best way is to just be a cynic, dont believe the hype n never get your hopes up when promised "the moon on a stick"

Seanfall:
I would like the option, the chance at a happy ending. Or at least one with more Sweetness and slightly less Bitterness.

Annoying thing is (wel one of the annoying things) is that they proved they can do bitter sweet endings right. Some of the missions had damn bitter sweet endings. Especially curing the genophage if Mording is/was loyal, it managed to be both optimistic and depressing at the same time.

I'm glad this stance was taken by the BBB. Whether it's medicine, cars or video games, the companies that provide products or services should not lie about them.

Wieke:

Seanfall:
I would like the option, the chance at a happy ending. Or at least one with more Sweetness and slightly less Bitterness.

Annoying thing is (wel one of the annoying things) is that they proved they can do bitter sweet endings right. Some of the missions had damn bitter sweet endings. Especially curing the genophage if Mording is/was loyal, it managed to be both optimistic and depressing at the same time.

that's what you get when the ending isn't peer reviewed - and instead is written by two guys, one of which have a mancruch on deep philosophical endings, which ends up having no connection to the rest of the plot

Grey Day for Elcia:

SpiderJerusalem:
Oh great, another one of your kind of people. Needless bleeding hearts.

I couldn't care less about the people living in absolute shit--it aint my problem. But one would think the ending to a god damn video game wouldn't be this much of a fucking issue with a little perspective. Christ, people... It's a game. Grow up. It's beyond disliking something and asking for a change; it's now a pathetic tantrum. You know when a little kid doesn't get the toy they want at a store and they roll around on the ground crying, making a big ol' scene and crying their little eyes out over a video ga- I mean, toy? Yeah...

So, you don't even care about the example that you're using to make a point with? That just adds hypocrite and inane to the list of words to describe an individual such as yourself.

I'm not sure what teeth the BBB has... Other then its a small marginal shot into the mighty sails of EA-Ware. So they did justify what many people claimed (the ending was false advertising).. but not like the ending was the big deciding factor in buying the game.

I'm still royally pissed off at EA/BioWare. I'll still may get DA3.. but really PAX people, cheering for features that will be in DA3 that shouldn't have been cut for DA2 in the first place? Just another sign of the sad state of gaming. I'll be keeping tabs on the game as develops, but without joy or any excitement in doing so; nor will I be elastically in wanting to giving them my money for a collectors edition... I may get a normal copy, if I feel they have earned the right for me to want to play their game.

webkilla:

Wieke:

Seanfall:
I would like the option, the chance at a happy ending. Or at least one with more Sweetness and slightly less Bitterness.

Annoying thing is (wel one of the annoying things) is that they proved they can do bitter sweet endings right. Some of the missions had damn bitter sweet endings. Especially curing the genophage if Mording is/was loyal, it managed to be both optimistic and depressing at the same time.

that's what you get when the ending isn't peer reviewed - and instead is written by two guys, one of which have a mancruch on deep philosophical endings, which ends up having no connection to the rest of the plot

Agreed. Also if you are going to make the deep philosophical ending you need more than sophomoric knowledge about philosophy. If the indoctrination ending is infact intentional I take it back. The philosophy of the ending has been seen before. And before. And before. m night shamaln does it better.

And he sucks at it.

I've done it.... I'm stumbled upon a Masshole nest.... They're everywhere! Quick! Grab your flame shield and some tylenol because the amount of whining is gonna give you a migraine!

SweetLiquidSnake:
I've done it.... I'm stumbled upon a Masshole nest.... They're everywhere! Quick! Grab your flame shield and some tylenol because the amount of whining is gonna give you a migraine!

The longer you stay in here the more intense the migraine. You should probably just ignore the thread.

So easy.

Now you don't have to be bothered.

Mournblade94:

webkilla:

Wieke:

Annoying thing is (wel one of the annoying things) is that they proved they can do bitter sweet endings right. Some of the missions had damn bitter sweet endings. Especially curing the genophage if Mording is/was loyal, it managed to be both optimistic and depressing at the same time.

that's what you get when the ending isn't peer reviewed - and instead is written by two guys, one of which have a mancruch on deep philosophical endings, which ends up having no connection to the rest of the plot

Agreed. Also if you are going to make the deep philosophical ending you need more than sophomoric knowledge about philosophy. If the indoctrination ending is infact intentional I take it back. The philosophy of the ending has been seen before. And before. And before. m night shamaln does it better.

And he sucks at it.

Yeah those leaks did explain a lot.

In my opinion it also shows how they should have attempted to correct the ending. Have the entire writing team peer review it and apply corrections as needed (maybe scrap the whole thing if it is deemed salvageable). But this "extended cut" thing, erhm, I'll reserve my judgement for when I see it but I doubt they can explain away some of our grievances.

Hopefully the industry will learn not to promise what they can not deliver. And hopefully the game-journalist learn consider the business aspects of the industry, like the guys at Forbes do , and not belittle fans with genuine grievances.

Shinigami214:

We disagree on a fundamental point. You believe that any sort of promotion that is not strictly paid-for advertising does not count as promotion.

I, and the U.S. advertising regulatory system (from what I can understand), believe otherwise.

Pointless to argue further, really.

I could persist in presenting a wealth of examples that (in my opinion) constitute examples of misleading promotion and advertising, but if you don't believe them to constitute advertising to begin with, there's no point.

Simply put there is no legal ground for the claim of false advertisement to stand on. Its simply unsubstantiated. If this claim somehow makes it to an actual court it will quickly be dismissed with Attorneys ripping the claim to shreds easier than I have.

Kevlar Eater:
But... but... but... artistic integrity! Would someone PLEASE think of the artistic integrity?!

I see what you did there.

On-topic: I was thinking the same thing about the false advertising bit. I was thinking, "Man, I'm surprised they haven't gotten sued yet, considering everyone's reactions."

dogstile:
If this works, I also want to sue the makers of Dead Island for saying it was local co-op when it isn't. Dicks. Wouldn't have brought that otherwise.

[sarcasm]Local co-op is so last decade.[/sarcasm]

I haven't posted on the Escapist in a while, and thank God I continued to stay off this place.

This shit depresses me to no end. Good job, guys. You've single handedly made us gamers look like a bunch of whiny brats. There's criticism, and then there's whining. Topping that off with attempting to ruin a company just fucking draws the line. If people just said that the ending wasn't good, sure, that's fine. That's just expressing your opinion, which you have every right to do. What makes people dumb is an over exaggeration of the problem. You haven't been cheated here, you just didn't like a small aspect of the game (namely, the 10 minute ending of a 25 - 30 hour game).

Here's a tip, free of charge - if you don't like the game, don't support Bioware in the future. Plus, most of you guys need to take a step back and say this to yourself - "it's just a game". It seems heavily counterproductive to spend this much time being pissed off at an entertainment product.

As for the forums, I'm sure no one here cares - but I'm leaving this place for good. Fuck all this negativity and cynicism and wannabe-pessimistic bullshit. I'm just gonna be here to see some weekly videos and the MLP group.

As for The Escapist - "The last bastion of intelligence", my ass. The worst kind of idiots are the ones who think they're smart.

Wieke:

Seanfall:
I would like the option, the chance at a happy ending. Or at least one with more Sweetness and slightly less Bitterness.

Annoying thing is (wel one of the annoying things) is that they proved they can do bitter sweet endings right. Some of the missions had damn bitter sweet endings. Especially curing the genophage if Mording is/was loyal, it managed to be both optimistic and depressing at the same time.

That was one of my favorite missions. I could go on and on about Mordin's character. But I'll just say that not only his death but the others of your squad who die are just as bitter sweet. Good bittersweet I mean. Hell Mordin and Thane actually brought me to tears, not man tears either. Which is the ending is so bad in comparison....when they prove they have the ability to stir deep emotion and choose not too.

Shinigami214:

mfeff:

Shinigami214:
-snip-

Unfortunately, as it has been pointed out... if Casey Hudson promised a gold brick in every box of ME 3... but there was no agreement between parties... then it is nothing but some shit he said.

Did he lie?

Sure.

Is he liable for the lie?

Nope. Not in the slightest.

The advertisement on the website is the advertisement.

Simply because an incorrect statement is made a million times doesn't make it any less incorrect.

I'm taking the liberty to post a legal definition of the U.S' interpretation of False Advertising:

"Any advertising or promotion that misrepresents the nature, characteristics, qualities or geographic origin of goods, services or commercial activities" (Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C.A. § 1125(a)).
.

Ah Ha! Nice post again!

So the next question is, to define the "to what extent" or the "limit" of the liability. For every Casey Hudson statement one way, one may find another statement that may be used in our out of context that countermands the previous one.

That being said, as I mentioned several post before... Art or not, is nonsense for the masses to discuss. At the end of the day it is software, plain and simple. Software typically, simply has to "run", "execute", or "start".

Remember Sword of the Stars II? I sure do.

Clearly it does this. Now as far as the liable, what is the penalty? What are the punitive damages? Further Promotional materials are not generally suitable for sale in the retail market. That is to say, pre-release hype is generally not considered legally binding with respect to a final product. To "be liable" one would seemingly have to be promoting a product that is "held out for purchase".

This is why there are "kick-starters", and "crowed funding" schemes. Retailers do not like to handle transactions for products that have not been "officially commercially released".

Mind you the consumer confidence is shattered, the "game journalist" look like a bunch of mooks on the take... but so what? I am not sure there is a single EA/Bioware account "post release" quantifying or restating anything from the promotional material as a "fact" in the retail product.

Individual retailers have certainly responded, Amazon issuing returns for one, local stores doing the same here and there. EA/Bioware? They could give a shit less, cause as far as a legal "exposure" there is none. It's one of the reasons three well-to-do doctor's started a software company making video games to begin with. It's a "thing" that prints money.

Should there be laws? Maybe, but market forces will work to spite any legal enforcement.

As I said, Pre-Release promotion, and Promotion... two very different things. Is it shady? Sure. Is it "Illegal" nope... not in the slightest.

nasteypenguin:
I don't exactly like the whole mass effect controversy thing, but I think it's going to generate a lot more good than bad in the long term. What I don't like is the fact that some the people who shout about how it's all entirely ridiculous, probably make the same remarks about how people don't do anything to show that companies are making easy choices - like continuous sequels, or generic fps remakes.

Just part of being a fanboy. No one's plight is bad except your own. Many bashers of MERetakers probably have acted the exact same way at some point in time. Maybe about Jericho, Firely, Warhammer or any other franchise that has been cancelled or messed up. They cry foul, but when someone else does about something that they aren't as invested in it's entitlement.

Mournblade94:

irishda:

And one more time just so we're clear:
I'm not saying "games should be the same as life". I'm pointing out the flawed reasoning that people's decisions in the game didn't matter because there were only three endings. A story is not defined by the last two pages, just as our lives are not defined by how we die, because even though the galaxy ends up in one of three ways, the state of that galaxy was determined by the player's decisions.

The three endings were not the problem. The three Bad endings were the problem. The final state of the galaxy after the endings actually has very little to do with the decisions shephard makes previous to the ABC yes/no/nor point.

the reason your point does not apply here is because lives are not defined the same way as art. Some M night shalamaln movies were great until the end. At the end the twist changed the paradigm of the movie.

The ending indeed changes a story. The ending can make or break a great story.

Actually there are people in history that are elevated or villified because of how they died, regardless of their previous deeds. So indeed I did not miss your point it was just not relevant.

I'm going to write two sentences. One is my life/death metaphor; the other is the point I'm trying to make. Let's see where the overlap is.

When you die, regardless of the fact that everyone's state is exactly the same (dead), your life's story is not defined solely by the end result of that life (i.e. you being dead) because of the many different actions or events in your life.
When the game ends, regardless of the fact that there are only three possible endings, the story is not defined solely by those three endings because of the many different actions and decisions the player made in the game.

Endings can very much make or break a story (like that movie Warrior fucking sucks because of those last five minutes), but the quality of the story is not what I'm arguing for. I'm arguing that even though a lot of people have the same endings to their Mass Effect stories, not everyone has the same story, which is exactly why their decisions and choices still mattered even after the ending.

AnarchistAbe:
Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.

Alright, firstly, if you do not understand the word that is Entitled or Entitlement and any variation there of then you should not use it in any circumstance. I am entitled to a product that is fit-for-purpose, thus if I am un-happy with it I am entitled to complain or return the product for compensation. Being entitled is not a insult due to the way the word can be used is almost always in a way of stating a right of a person.

Secondly, if you do not understand what you are arguing against, don't even argue about it. The Retake Mass Effect's movement's goal from the very start was to get Bioware to make a DLC, free or not to make the ending less shitty or to have more closure, not to change it to where everybody lives happily ever after.

As many have pointed out, the ending makes no sense. If we want to get into a very much deeper look at it, in order for Joker to escape the planet with Shephard's teammates who were with him no less then ten minutes earlier, he would have to travel down, convince them to come with him and then leave. Not only would this be completely outside of the character's set motives, no one on the crew would willingly Shepard behind. Mind you this is within a span of ten minutes until you can make your choice. I'm not sure how fast that ship can go but simply convincing them to follow would take something like twenty minutes at least not counting time dodging and / or killing reapers.

Next one is that people randomly appear on the citadel that couldn't have possibly gotten there without Shephard meeting them first before reaching their desired destination.

Last is the God-Child who was never hinted at earlier in the series or even the same game that essentially hands you a Deus Ex Machinima and also rips the options straight from Deus Ex.

Honestly, you don't know enough to comment if you only know what Bob Chapman has been saying for the past few episodes. You come off as someone who doesn't know the situation at all and doesn't even know what word he is using as a insult.

If you wanted better grounds for what you were saying you could have very easily picked up a valuable argument from the internet. The best one I came across was very shallow and essentially just saying that corporations can do no wrong.

In the future, evaluate your points to actually suit what you dislike. This isn't something of personal taste as it is something is being pointed out as shoddy and thousands agree, while thousands jump in front of bullets to protect the publisher from any hate, despite being simultaneously fucked by the publisher in many different aspects. Why couldn't you have made a sensible arguement like Mr or Mrs VMK did?

VMK:
I think Bioware should just stop making RPG games and start making sport-sims and multiplayer FPSes. At least fans of those games are not as rage-filled as RPG ones, and are more grateful.
And it will bring them more money.

I understand that they could have done it better. I understand that everyone (including me) wanted to see the impact of their actions. But this is just ridiculous. Such ammount of rage and complaints is but a tantrum. Legal complaint? Are you kidding me?!

They [Bioware]have already said, that they, well, "feel us" (On this I trust Bioware); They have already stated that they are making an Extended cut DLC (which, I assure You, will be free: EA won't dare make us pay for it after the whole scandal).
What else do you want? You want them to buy your copies from you and replace it with the "right" ones for free? Maybe a fellatio from Ray Muzyka himself, just for the sake of it?

You played the game, you enjoyed it until the very end, which they will fix.
So stop it. Just stop it. This is literally crazy. It is as if litlle spoiled kid got a fresh, home-made chocolate cookle from his/her grandma, and saw a bit of raw dough on the side:
-UWWAAAAAAAAAAHH!!!!!!! This cookie is bad!!!!
-Honey, please calm down, grandma will fix it.
-No!You messed it up! I hate you!- screamed the child, while eating one cookie after another, for they were delicious, every single one of them. Exept for the one with the dough.

P.S. Quoting I don't remember who, but probably MovieBob: "You want Bioware to make with ME the same thing you hate George Lucas for doing with Star Wars."

Thank you for this for actually providing a little bit of sense on this. Although its completely different between Mass Effect and Star Wars. In Star Wars the scene was perfectly fine and was ultimately hypocritical of George Lucas since he himself preached about the evils of allowing people to change their works. In Mass Effect its a terrible scene that, overall is just not good enough to pass any inspection.

----------------------------------------------------

I called this a while ago that Mass Effect's scandal could very well be brought up with legal action if need be. I wouldn't blame anyone if they did take legal action against Mass Effect 3, due to this actually being truth now, apparently. It has nothing to do with what fans want when it comes to legal shit, it is about what is legal and not illegal, and this just so happens to fall off into the illegal category.

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