Internet Petition Demands Dark Souls Drop GFWL

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Internet Petition Demands Dark Souls Drop GFWL

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Games for Windows Live in Dark Souls does not sit well with PC gamers.

You may have heard a little something about Dark Souls coming to the PC yesterday, but good news turned to bad for a lot of gamers when the word slipped out that the game will require use of the much-maligned Games for Windows Live. After indulging in the usual forum outrage for awhile, the angered masses of the master race took its concerns to a higher court of the internet, where such grievances can be properly addressed: a petition!

"GFWL is unpopular, difficult to use, inconvenient, has terrible online support (a key feature in Dark Souls), and is downright unpleasant. After anxiously awaiting a PC release for this fantastic game it feels like a real slap in the face hearing Dark Souls will use Games for Windows Live," it says. "We recommend Valve's Steamworks in place, as this DRM is much easier to use, less intrusive, more reliable, and more accepted among PC gamers. Please reconsider the use of GFWL, or offer the game on both services. Thank you for taking the effort to port this game, but for a lot of customers it's Steam or no sale."

Before we get all dismissive, we should probably bear in mind that the PC version of Dark Souls was brought about at least in part by an earlier internet petition that attracted over 92,000 signatures. The current "No GFWL" petition is doing pretty well for itself too, garnering over 13,000 signatures in just its first day.

I can't help but think that "Steam or no sale" gamers are cutting off their buttons to spite their mice, to coin a somewhat more relevant expression, but props to them for sticking to their guns. And who knows? Given the precedent set by the "we want Dark Souls" petition, maybe Namco will listen to this one too.

The PC-exclusive Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition launches world-wide on August 24.

Thanks to gigastar for the tip.

Permalink

I don't blame people.

I've used GFWL once and made a 180 da hell outa that crap.
I'm not even a fan of STEAM, but at least that tends to work better.

I don't agree with no steam no sale but I agree with not using GFWL. Tons of other people do and here it's just the lesser of 2 evils. I'm pretty sure tons of people would rather use steamworks than GFWL. Also what took you so long this was made within minutes of the actual game being announced? People were linking the petition all over the news page of the other article on this.

I'd buy it even if it's not on steam, just not GFWL. Anything but that please.

You know, I'm probably a "Steam or no sale" gamer in this instance. Not really because I hate GFWL (though I do), or because I really love Steam, but because Steam is very, very effective at getting me to buy things, and Dark Souls is more of a curiosity for me than a must-have game.

Curiosity in an "I wonder how well I can deal with failure" kind of way.

Oh dear, companies still use GFWL? Thats one way to lose sales I guess...

Why not put it on the massively popular steam? assured sales (at least from those who don't pirate it) and keep gamers happy.

As the article mentions, considering Dark Souls arriving on PC was brought about in part due to a petition, I can't help but feel that yet another petition will remedy this unfavorable decision.

Master race? Hahahaha that's funny. haha hah haaaaaaaah.

But seriously, what's with that?

Waaghpowa:
I'd buy it even if it's not on steam, just not GFWL. Anything but that please.

Anything? Even Ubisoft DRM? You're a stronger man than I, friend!

Considering how much GFWL is prone to losing your save files, this is especially worrying since Dark Souls has only one continuously updated save file. And you probably won't even be able to back it up since it'll be encrypted.

Tread carefully, From Software.

Somethingfake:

Waaghpowa:
I'd buy it even if it's not on steam, just not GFWL. Anything but that please.

Anything? Even Ubisoft DRM? You're a stronger man than I, friend!

Well considering the only games to use Ubisoft drm are generally games published by Ubisoft, we don't need to worry about that at least.

You guys...

You got your port. Be happy with that. Us Tales fans can't even get a petition through.

Some people are never happy...

I can understand the disappointment for GFWL, I've used it before, mainly when I played FO3 and DoW2, but at least they got the game for the PC.

Baby steps. ;)

*sigh* I'm done. Is it just me, or is every news story nowadays about gamers bitching about *insert topic here*? Is it just me that sees it?

GFWL is a great deal for me to NOT play a game. if i wanted that kind of hassle, i would play in xbox live.

RaikuFA:
You guys...

You got your port. Be happy with that. Us Tales fans can't even get a petition through.

You just got Tales of Graces F and didn't that sell pretty well all things considered? Also didn't Namco Bandai trademark Tales of Xillia for the U.S. and Europe recently? Also there's no point in a bad port especially if that port uses a service known to just delete saves at random.

PLease stop GFWL, its so bad it makes Gotham City Imposters almost impossible to play. I hate it so much please, Steam or Ubisoft DRM ANYTHING BUT GFWL!!!!

You know I'm all for competition between digital distributors. Heck, I would've supported them even if they went with Origin as their DRM, it doesn't even have to be a steamworks game.

The problem is that GFWL is an abomination that deserves to be dragged to the backyard and get its brain blown off its head with a shotgun at point blank range. And my only experience with GFWL was Bioshock 2!

Somethingfake:

Waaghpowa:
I'd buy it even if it's not on steam, just not GFWL. Anything but that please.

Anything? Even Ubisoft DRM? You're a stronger man than I, friend!

Ubi drm has always worked for me, even allowed offline modw better than steam does.

Ot:signed. GFWL is the worst DRM around.

AnarchistAbe:
*sigh* I'm done. Is it just me, or is every news story nowadays about gamers bitching about *insert topic here*? Is it just me that sees it?

Do you even understand the issue? This is a pretty serious feasibility question. Plenty of people won't get this because of GFWL.

AnarchistAbe:
*sigh* I'm done. Is it just me, or is every news story nowadays about gamers bitching about *insert topic here*? Is it just me that sees it?

You're done? Don't let the door hitchya!

But really, a lot more about what is being heard is people saying "no more" to crap like this. How many times have we had to digest GFWL or other garbage Microsoft likes to attach to games, like Halo 2 Vista edition? The only reason this will probably fail too is because the almighty contract with Microsoft on GFWL will stranglehold them into having to use it.

The cost-benefit analysis will end up like this: is the cost of buyout to disconnect from GFWL proportionate to the gain of people that will buy it without GFWL in place? A petition is kind of useful in that regard, at is quantifies the amount of people who will not buy it with GFWL, which can be multiplied by the profit each lost sale could have made, subtracting a safe margin that were signatures with no intent to buy. If CancelCost < AmountOfLostSaleRevenue, GFWL may likely be out the window. If CancelCost >= AmountOfLostSaleRevenue, it ain't going anywhere.

Roboto:

AnarchistAbe:
*sigh* I'm done. Is it just me, or is every news story nowadays about gamers bitching about *insert topic here*? Is it just me that sees it?

You're done? Don't let the door hitchya!

But really, a lot more about what is being heard is people saying "no more" to crap like this. How many times have we had to digest GFWL or other garbage Microsoft likes to attach to games, like Halo 2 Vista edition? The only reason this will probably fail too is because the almighty contract with Microsoft on GFWL will stranglehold them into having to use it.

The cost-benefit analysis will end up like this: is the cost of buyout to disconnect from GFWL proportionate to the gain of people that will buy it without GFWL in place? A petition is kind of useful in that regard, at is quantifies the amount of people who will not buy it with GFWL, which can be multiplied by the profit each lost sale could have made, subtracting a safe margin that were signatures with no intent to buy. If CancelCost < AmountOfLostSaleRevenue, GFWL may likely be out the window. If CancelCost >= AmountOfLostSaleRevenue, it ain't going anywhere.

Or, hear me out, they could just stop with the PC ports. Piracy strains the PC market, it's not as profitable as consoles, and it's a smaller consumer base. Why don't they just stop releasing PC titles?

This coming from a PC gamer, who loves the PC. Seriously, we should just try to be thankful for what we get.

I must say I'm a steam fanboy, but I would support any other distribution channel but GFWL it has caused so much grief with the few games I was unfortunate enough to be given that were cursed with it. I'm all for gamers letting companies know what we want, because in the end everyone is happy.

AnarchistAbe:

Roboto:

AnarchistAbe:
*sigh* I'm done. Is it just me, or is every news story nowadays about gamers bitching about *insert topic here*? Is it just me that sees it?

You're done? Don't let the door hitchya!

But really, a lot more about what is being heard is people saying "no more" to crap like this. How many times have we had to digest GFWL or other garbage Microsoft likes to attach to games, like Halo 2 Vista edition? The only reason this will probably fail too is because the almighty contract with Microsoft on GFWL will stranglehold them into having to use it.

The cost-benefit analysis will end up like this: is the cost of buyout to disconnect from GFWL proportionate to the gain of people that will buy it without GFWL in place? A petition is kind of useful in that regard, at is quantifies the amount of people who will not buy it with GFWL, which can be multiplied by the profit each lost sale could have made, subtracting a safe margin that were signatures with no intent to buy. If CancelCost < AmountOfLostSaleRevenue, GFWL may likely be out the window. If CancelCost >= AmountOfLostSaleRevenue, it ain't going anywhere.

Or, hear me out, they could just stop with the PC ports. Piracy strains the PC market, it's not as profitable as consoles, and it's a smaller consumer base. Why don't they just stop releasing PC titles?

This coming from a PC gamer, who loves the PC. Seriously, we should just try to be thankful for what we get.

They would have more sales if they weren't always trying to dick us over. Also be thankful for a service known for deleting saves and many times just not working. What? No especially not when there's another convenient service right there that also happens to be the most popular digital distribution service out there.

Steam or no sale.

I think that's a good motto for digital distribution and DRM at the moment.

The various counter systems have stopped me buying more games than they have sold me on (Dawn of War 2, BF3, Anything Ubisoft etc), Steam for all it's mild insidiousness does actually work conveniently for me.

Always got to wonder though, all this money sank into DRM and no one upstairs ever seems to stop to look at why the third option has been so steadily growing.

80Maxwell08:
They would have more sales if they weren't always trying to dick us over. Also be thankful for a service known for deleting saves and many times just not working. What? No especially not when there's another convenient service right there that also happens to be the most popular digital distribution service out there.

Dick you over??? THEY GAVE YOU WHAT YOU WANTED! You petitioned for a PC port, and they gave you one!!! How are they dicking you over? GFWL? No game, or GFWL. Take your fucking pick.

AnarchistAbe:

80Maxwell08:
They would have more sales if they weren't always trying to dick us over. Also be thankful for a service known for deleting saves and many times just not working. What? No especially not when there's another convenient service right there that also happens to be the most popular digital distribution service out there.

Dick you over??? THEY GAVE YOU WHAT YOU WANTED! You petitioned for a PC port, and they gave you one!!! How are they dicking you over? GFWL? No game, or GFWL. Take your fucking pick.

Why would I pay for a game that doesn't work?

IT ISN'T OUT YET!!! How do you know it doesn't work? I have never once had an issue with GFWL.

AnarchistAbe:

Roboto:

AnarchistAbe:
*sigh* I'm done. Is it just me, or is every news story nowadays about gamers bitching about *insert topic here*? Is it just me that sees it?

You're done? Don't let the door hitchya!

But really, a lot more about what is being heard is people saying "no more" to crap like this. How many times have we had to digest GFWL or other garbage Microsoft likes to attach to games, like Halo 2 Vista edition? The only reason this will probably fail too is because the almighty contract with Microsoft on GFWL will stranglehold them into having to use it.

The cost-benefit analysis will end up like this: is the cost of buyout to disconnect from GFWL proportionate to the gain of people that will buy it without GFWL in place? A petition is kind of useful in that regard, at is quantifies the amount of people who will not buy it with GFWL, which can be multiplied by the profit each lost sale could have made, subtracting a safe margin that were signatures with no intent to buy. If CancelCost < AmountOfLostSaleRevenue, GFWL may likely be out the window. If CancelCost >= AmountOfLostSaleRevenue, it ain't going anywhere.

Or, hear me out, they could just stop with the PC ports. Piracy strains the PC market, it's not as profitable as consoles, and it's a smaller consumer base. Why don't they just stop releasing PC titles?

This coming from a PC gamer, who loves the PC. Seriously, we should just try to be thankful for what we get.

Thing is, the older you get and the more indentured you become in the business, the more you find out EVERYTHING in the entire games and systems industry boils down to the all powerful cost benefits analysis. There wasn't going to be a port, someone initially crunched the numbers and said "no way, waste." Then 93,000 sigs popped into existence, and even taking away 20,000 of those as bandwagon and another 10,000 for piracy buffer of those sigs gives you 63,000 buys. It's not absolute math as it is speculative and I have no way to back up those numbers, but neither do they, and sometimes speculation is the only way we can get results. Anyway, 63,000 x profit margin = TotalProfitFromPort. TotalProfitFromPort > CostOfPort = PortGetsMade. The initial value to the crunchers had totalprofitfromport much lower I assume, which is why it doesn't get made. Same reason Halo 3 never got a PC edition. What this newest petition does is subtract from TotalProfitFromPort. My last post encompasses that variable.

Either way, you may have heard "decide with your wallet" which can be frustrating to hear because you may like the property but there is a part of it you hate and do not want to support. Not buying it to teach them a lesson means not getting the part you want, and the potential to cause a misunderstanding that the part you wanted WAS the bad part that made you not buy it. Oops. That is what stops the sequel from being made. What these guys did is do a Commander Shepard: they took a third option. Tell the company that a lot of us do not like a specific part of the product, but that we love all the rest of it (seems obvious). Now here is the exact number of us who do not like that specific part.

It is all a numbers game. They have samples and numbers of their own, we're just providing them with our own numbers to help them exact things out. It has always been a numbers game and always will be. You know this for yourself though as you do seem smart. We're just so used to seeing all those numbers from one side (devs) and it is interesting that it is all swinging the other way; seeing numbers coming from the gamer side and actually impacting things is unusual and so I would qualify that as news, or even a trend.

People just aren't remaining true to the vision of Dark Souls!

It's supposed to be dark, desolate, gritty and downright hard on you. So, naturally, GfWL is the right direction to take...

I may pick this up for PC, not decided yet.

I have no problems with GFWL, Steam has given me more hassle than GFWL...

I'm just backwards like that.

If this game has to use GFWS then it's objectively not worth buying, end of discussion. You could noy pay me to use that horrid piece of garbage code, and to this day my computer has not forgiven me for the atrocity I inflicted on it for installing that service. Even if this game was hadcrafted by Jesus and came with 1000 tons of solid gold it would still not be worth it.

Roboto:

Thing is, the older you get and the more indentured you become in the business, the more you find out EVERYTHING in the entire games and systems industry boils down to the all powerful cost benefits analysis. There wasn't going to be a port, someone initially crunched the numbers and said "no way, waste." Then 93,000 sigs popped into existence, and even taking away 20,000 of those as bandwagon and another 10,000 for piracy buffer of those sigs gives you 63,000 buys. It's not absolute math as it is speculative and I have no way to back up those numbers, but neither do they, and sometimes speculation is the only way we can get results. Anyway, 63,000 x profit margin = TotalProfitFromPort. TotalProfitFromPort > CostOfPort = PortGetsMade. The initial value to the crunchers had totalprofitfromport much lower I assume, which is why it doesn't get made. Same reason Halo 3 never got a PC edition. What this newest petition does is subtract from TotalProfitFromPort. My last post encompasses that variable.

Either way, you may have heard "decide with your wallet" which can be frustrating to hear because you may like the property but there is a part of it you hate and do not want to support. Not buying it to teach them a lesson means not getting the part you want, and the potential to cause a misunderstanding that the part you wanted WAS the bad part that made you not buy it. Oops. That is what stops the sequel from being made. What these guys did is do a Commander Shepard: they took a third option. Tell the company that a lot of us do not like a specific part of the product, but that we love all the rest of it (seems obvious). Now here is the exact number of us who do not like that specific part.

It is all a numbers game. They have samples and numbers of their own, we're just providing them with our own numbers to help them exact things out. It has always been a numbers game and always will be. You know this for yourself though as you do seem smart. We're just so used to seeing all those numbers from one side (devs) and it is interesting that it is all swinging the other way; seeing numbers coming from the gamer side and actually impacting things is unusual and so I would qualify that as news, or even a trend.

I agree with a large majority of this. I'm just saying. It'd be like me not having enough cookies, and you not having one. I go bake you a special cookie that takes up a lot of my time and effort. Then, you decide that I didn't use the right chocolate chips in my cookie, and you throw it in my face. Isn't that a bit of a dick move?

AnarchistAbe:
IT ISN'T OUT YET!!! How do you know it doesn't work? I have never once had an issue with GFWL.

I have had issues with it before and so have so many others. The other topic regarding this game and GFWL shows plenty of people who have issues with it. Also let me show you something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O5w0vxErA8&feature=g-user-u
The analogy is at the beginning. You are the one telling people to eat crap and deal with it.

Movie Bob and Graham are going to love this.

AnarchistAbe:
IT ISN'T OUT YET!!! How do you know it doesn't work? I have never once had an issue with GFWL.

Then you are in the minority. GFWL is a horrible piece of cow dung that isn't supported by the very people who created the damn thing. Its match makin system are god awful. Its connectivity issues are worse than anythin I have ever seen.

GFWL is so bad I would truly and totally take Ubisoft DRM over it because at least with how god awful Ubidrm is, I know that the blasted thing will actually work when I want it to work (unless they move authentication servers) whereas with GFWL the only thin I know is that I might be able to play a online if I pray really really hard.

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