BioWare Says SWTOR Subscriptions Haven't Dropped

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I don't play MMO's, but I've always been silently hoping that TOR does well. Maybe because I'm tired of hearing about WoW, or, more specifically, listening to WoW fanboys. I also can't help but think that power leveling uber players max out their characters in a fraction of the time a normal player would then compare it to WoW and complain about lack of endgame. Blizzard's opus has had years and years to build up it's endgame. I think it's an unfair comparison.

In the end, I'm not playing it so if it flops it's no skin off my ass. I would just like to see WoW taken down a notch.

Good, stable MMO. Hit 50 on my Trooper Vanguard pretty early on, what with wanting to power through that story as fast as possible - I'm a military nut, it's "my thing" one could say.

Been doing PvP and the occational hardmode (heroic as WoW players might know it) flashpoints (dungeons) pretty regularly with my friends and I'm quite literally having a blast. The especially interesting thing is that tanking works in PvP, with Guard (which reduces damage taken by a friendly target of your choosing, by transferring some of the damage to you) and taunts reducing enemy damage against everyone but yourself.

I agree with Dirty Apple. People I leveled with on release started bitching about lack of content the moment they hit 50. Once I politely reminded them how little endgame content WoW had on release, that shut up quite a few naysayers. Those same folks are now back in 1.2 with the new PvP warzones and the new operations (raids).

Like I said right off the bat: It's a good, stable MMO built around the mechanics people ought to be familiar with by now if they've ever played an MMO. It does everything an MMO needs to do well or at the very least it does them well enough, but it shines in the story department. (In before individuals with tech issues. I've had none, but I didn't say the game was perfect did I?).

I'm not surprised the numbers are steady. Heck, I'm still happily enjoying my 30 days of free playing time because I had a level 50 character. That's right, I got a month of free gametime just because I'd played on release, and they wanted folks to give the new content update a go. Can't remember the last time a company running an MMO gave a month of gametime for free just for playing their game. Folks like Blizzard could probably let people play for free for months and months, and still be looking at a positive bank account at the end of it...

Numbers seem steady to me in the game. I have a guild that runs end game content, I have no reason to quit since I'm seeing everything and getting my moneys worth out of it.

Now if you excuse me, I'm going back to my Sniper.

I just canceled my sub yesterday... for Tera.

The plague was an interesting event that really brought the two factions together which flamed world pvp... but at the newness wore off and it just became a repetitive grind with the ultimate aspiration being "some gear that will never be better than epics" people stopped doing the quests and world pvp is tapering off.

Not tooting Tera's horn or anything... but given there is no faction... I'll never be want for pvp unless there's just no one logged in.

...yet.

Just wait. It's been what, two months?

Maybe the upcoming expansion of Wow (Mists of Pandoria) is looming large - and they're adding pet battles (hello Pokemon!)

John Funk:
MMO players are accustomed to a steady diet of new content in their games

Ehhhh... if you take a very loose view of what constitutes 'new' content...

My play has definitely slowed to a crawl since the launch, not because the game is bad (because I LOVE it), but because there is no one else on. It's hard to do dailies and run FPs when there are only 3 other people on the map.

I was pvping for a while, to try and get better gear, but even re-rolling as a Rep to pvp has proven to be futile. :/

Sooo much hate and whine. Get over yourself lads.

Rakghoul plague?! Not more of the damn things!

DeMorquist:
De Nile is a river in Egypt...or so as my mother would say....

Deny

Deny

Deny

We arent sinking.... We have plenty of subs... This wasnt a failure of a game...

I'm not sure what you consider a failure, but I would assume more than a millions subs and a video game in profit, wouldn't constitute a failure.

ITT: "I've never played it but it sucks." "Less than 100 000 000 subs? FAILURE!"

Flailing Escapist:
...yet.

Just wait. It's been what, two months?

It's been four months.

Irridium:
Yeah, numbers seem about steady as I've been playing. The main problem is that the game has too many damn servers, which makes it feel like there's less people playing than there actually is.

We need a server merge. They opened with too many. Though if they do that, everyone will have a damn field day and make the game look like it's worse off than it really is. There's plenty of people playing, problem is that they're all spread out.

I heard the is apparently some technical limitations on that since they used an engine that was still in beta...

Coldie:
Not really a surprise, considering they have just published a major patch and gave a free month to active accounts (only a week to inactive). And the game has been 25% off on Origin for most of March and is 50% off since early April and until mid-May (bet the people who bought it in March are totally fine with it).

They are really going all out with inventing new ways to retain subscribers.

so not only has it dropped 50% in price they are giving away a month of subscription free to try and keep players.. wow seriously not a good sign for it

Biggest turn-off for me is actually the mechanics of the game... too many arbitrary, linearly increasing numbers. I really dislike that in an RPG. So I guess it's just too conventional an MMO for me. If it were SWD20, it would be perfect.

But I'm just on hiatus. I'll be finishing all 8 storylines before I actually cancel.

I really can't stand seeing so much hate for this game and so many people predicting it's end, especially if it's just because they didn't like it and know a few others that did.

Another reason I think people are so annoyed by ToR is because it isn't a perfect MMO that can dethrone WoW easily. Anyone that actually expected ToR to be the second coming of Jesus for MMOs is a complete fool.

Yes, the game isn't perfect but it is fun, and it has a lot of potential for future growth.

I've seen complains about the levelling system with comparisons to WoW; Do you guys forget how bad WoW's early quests were originally? Y'know, where you'd have to keep switching zones and hunting in the far reaches for quests, as an area could quickly run out of quests you can actually do due to level restrictions.

But comparing the 2 games is completely stupid either, becuase they aren't the samer game, nor is Bioware trying to make it like that.

Subscribed but only till like the 20th of may. I have not actually played (outside of PC testing) for well over a month now. Now granted, part of that has to do with finals for class and being in the middle of moving to a new house. However its also been heavy lack of interest as well. After classes are over and I get moved in Im going to do a final push to get my Jugg maxed out and in doing so I might investigate joining a heavily established guild, which might help my replay value.

For me the biggest problem is that under its current structure, the only thing that encourages you to keep playing is the expectation of creating another toon. There is no real incentive to "be" a char and with how easy the game is practically anyone who plays has 1-4 toons maxed out right now. What is the point of investing your time into being a Juggernaut if you know out of your guild people just switch out roles interchangeably? Part of the fun of MMOs is building and specializing your char. By making the game so easy and not having any long term entertainment value set up all your doing is encouraging people to yield their main toon to go play a different one for content. Many people would rather not start over rather than not having something to do. They should have accounted for this when making a game so easy you can complete in 1 weeks time.

Plus the game was actually rushed toward the end. EA was so concerned with getting return on investment that they were determined to force a 2011 release date. Problem with that is, that the game was not actually finished until 1.2 because all the content that was in 1.2 was content that should have been in the final release of the game. Then from there, corresponding patches should have been centered around adding story based content, not applying features like customizable UI or finishing out legacy perks system.

From here, what they are going to have to do is deliver long term difficult content. Im talking Kerafyrm/Pandemonium level content. With Dark souls level difficulty and heavy time sink requirement that grants a worthy reward for completing it. They really need to add content with the expectation that the average player may have to work on for a month, instead of a few hours. I get that they do not want to keep the game accessible so as that you can log in and within an hours time have accomplished something, but they have that already. Now its time to give the time sink crowd something to chew on. You know you cannot have an MMO history of "Epic weapons" and "Tiered gear" that required an extensive investment in time/effort and not provide that same level of challenge to the established vets and expect them to hang around for very long. I hate to say it, but this game really would benefit from more time sinks.

TL;DR More long term content. Stop encouraging people to make different chars and reward people for sticking with their mains. The game was rushed and 1.2 should have been the actual release of the game, Deliver more narrative content per patch in order to keep people entertained.

Irridium:
Yeah, numbers seem about steady as I've been playing. The main problem is that the game has too many damn servers, which makes it feel like there's less people playing than there actually is.

We need a server merge. They opened with too many. Though if they do that, everyone will have a damn field day and make the game look like it's worse off than it really is. There's plenty of people playing, problem is that they're all spread out.

Actually, if they had kept the number of servers they opened with it would be a lot better. There was a massive server expansion the 2 weeks after release.

I know WoW's badges weren't a perfect solution, but after 2 weeks of doing regular mode 8 mans I never felt the need to run a heroic 4 man instance again.

The crafting system is as bad as vanilla WoW. Blow a bunch of mats to reverse engineer something worse than the reward for 1 day of dailies.

But ultimately, I wanted to raid with my old WoW buddies, but since the game didn't hold their interest, my feelings on the game are somewhat moot. Odds are I'll give it one more month, so everyone's classes are over, before I unsubscribe.

Dastardly:
Of course, the other problem is that it's a Star Wars game. That means you're supposed to play through the story of "your favorite character," which you must select from the short list of archetypes. Are you Luke, Han, Anakin, Maul, or Fett? Those are your choices. It's such a huge galaxy that you can live one of five stories, and ever smuggler gets the same Wookiee companion...

There's also Imperial Agent, which is the best addition to the Star Wars universe in recent memory.

Seriously. I'm sick of Star Wars, and I love the Imperial Agent storyline in SWTOR. It's something that's pretty much completely new to the franchise, which means they have a lot of freedom to play around with it. And what I think is particularly interesting is that it was born from necessity: they needed a rogue-type class that was the Imperial counterpart to the Smuggler.

If SWTOR hadn't been an MMO, the Imperial Agent storyline would never have been written. Because who would want to buy a Star Wars game about something they'd never heard of? Single-player Star Wars games are about Jedi and Sith, and maybe bounty hunters and smugglers. The only way to add something else would be to make an MMO, with a choice of classes.

The same thing can also be said about the Trooper, which is the best storyline on the Republic side.

For me, that makes the whole thing worth it: the chance to see Star Wars from some completely new and interesting points of view.

Rakor:
Maybe if they fixed the amd graphics card problem already...

Wait, Bioware still has problems with AMD cards? Hell, even Kotor 1 has that problem!

Yeah, never played it, computer ain't good enough. Cinematic trailers look real good though.

Dastardly:
The game's failings are a result of bad design. They created a single-player game and expected people to pay monthly for it. They ignored the very thing that made MMOs worth a monthly fee in the first place -- buying real estate in a virtual world.

This generation of MMOs are so linear, or at least heavily corralled experiences. Your primary means of leveling is following someone else's story... so basically, you're not paying for the right to create your own character, you're just leasing one of the pre-mades. In trying to make the story content deep, they've also made it incredibly narrow.

MMOs are probably the one place where, especially at the beginning, it's okay to err on the side of "a mile wide and an inch deep." Players need a variety of things to do, not just one thing that's really interesting (the first time) and nothing else -- that's what single-player games are for.

Of course, the other problem is that it's a Star Wars game. That means you're supposed to play through the story of "your favorite character," which you must select from the short list of archetypes. Are you Luke, Han, Anakin, Maul, or Fett? Those are your choices. It's such a huge galaxy that you can live one of five stories, and ever smuggler gets the same Wookiee companion...

Go F2P or go away.

Pretty much this... I went back to Eve not that long ago, and promptly flew out into deep space to get lost. I'm still out there, dodging pirates and player corps, creating my own adventure, minute by minute.

Admittedly the sand box is intimidating, but the linearity of SWTOR has cost them the .hack dream of finding mysteries.

It would have been much better as a multiplayer online game, rather than a fully fleshed out MMO, where the multiplayer conversations could have really set the custom dungeon makers minds ablaze. Just imagine what could have been if the was a level creator with a robust voice input system.

I'm calling the SWTOR style a failure of an MMO... not in terms of sales, but in terms of theory and MMO feeling. I'll look forward to Guild Wars 2, and their take on daisy chained public questing.

Until then... my little scout ship has some more worm hole diving to make it back to Amarr space.

The main problem i had with the game is that its WoW. Sure the storyline is way better and the combats more streamlined and its starwars.... but everything in it is WoW, and i stopped playing WoW because i got bored of it. From the combat to the talent trees to the vehicle mechanics and more, its just a WoW clone, and until MMOs stop trying to be WoW, they will keep failing since there's already a WoW and it has years of fine tuning.

I mean Rift had great potential, then few months after launch everything had been converted to a WoW equivalent.

And for the love of god, stop with the resilience stat, making a stat thats only purpose is to make someone suck less in pvp is stupid, if they actually wanted to pvp the base stats should be fine, asking for handicaps just makes it less about skill and more about numbers.

MMO developers, I am disappoint.

Its pretty easy to keep subscribers when you give everyone a free month. Come June the true numbers will come out. Everyone that wants to play this game has and there was so much marketing they will not get any new people at best they will be able to convince some people to come back.

Grey Day for Elcia:

DeMorquist:
De Nile is a river in Egypt...or so as my mother would say....

Deny

Deny

Deny

We arent sinking.... We have plenty of subs... This wasnt a failure of a game...

I'm not sure what you consider a failure, but I would assume more than a millions subs and a video game in profit, wouldn't constitute a failure.

ITT: "I've never played it but it sucks." "Less than 100 000 000 subs? FAILURE!"

LOL

I played it...its nothing...NO new...NO excitement...hell after I killed Baras I was told to go wait in the fleet until some grp of 3 people need me to kill enemies of the Empire

They...and You...Can keep lying to yourself.... SWTOR is a sinking ship...Unless Bioware can whip up another not horrible game (SWTOR....ME3 ending drama) they might not get murdered when EA needs to throw out the trash...

loc978:
Biggest turn-off for me is actually the mechanics of the game... too many arbitrary, linearly increasing numbers. I really dislike that in an RPG. So I guess it's just too conventional an MMO for me. If it were SWD20, it would be perfect.

But I'm just on hiatus. I'll be finishing all 8 storylines before I actually cancel.

and i thought it was because of shitty conversation choices.

I know as someone who really enjoys the game, I can't play multiplayer on my laptop without lagging to shit. that is one of the major reasons I haven't logged in a while...that and graduate school.

I know WoW lagged the same way on my old computers, but I guess now I just don't have the patience for it. /shrug

It is quieter than I would like in-game. At any given time, whatever level, it can be very hard to find 3 other players to put together a balanced team for a dungeon/flashpoint. Doing heroic quests can also be challenging...not because the mission itself is challenging, but finding another person with whom to do it is challenging. I think a server merges is a very good idea.

The other idea is one I really can't understand why it isn't implemented. It would almost entirely eliminate the "population" problem and the faction imbalance problem. I understand why Republic and Sith players are kept wholly seperate..because WoW did it that way, and WoW is successful. Well it's a stupid, needless feature. WHY can't player's from either faction enjoy PvE content with each other?

In Eve Online, an Amarr can play with a Caldari. In Age of Conan all factions can play with each other. Same in Fallen Earth and many others. In City of Heroes/Villains, games which are quite seperate allow opposing factions to join together for certain PvE content (and since Going Rogue, even SWITCH SIDES!).

The Faction restrictions may make sense from a story perspective I'll grant, but from a gameplay perspective it is frustrating and needless. If we could play with each other in PvE there would be significantly more content, more players, more players of an appropriate level to team with, more chance of finding tanks/healers as needed, etc.

The other feature I wish the game had and cannot understand why EVERY MMO doesn't have it, is CoH/V's Lackey/Sidekick system. This allows players of any level to play with other players of any level and get level-appropriate rewards. I appreciate that in a story driven game this isn't an easy thing to implement as is. However, it would mean that as a max level character I can join my low or mid-level friends for dungeons without crippling their XP gain, with a challenge for myself and so on. This results in...more players to team with and the ability to join friends whatever level they are.

We could have a larger, functioning economy rather than the pathetically understocked trade house atm, more content, more players to enjoy said content with and still enjoy the inter-faction battles, stories and PvP.

Karathos:
People I leveled with on release started bitching about lack of content the moment they hit 50. Once I politely reminded them how little endgame content WoW had on release, that shut up quite a few naysayers.

You mean the 2 complete 40-man raids (MC+Ony, which unlike TOR, didn't get cleared a week within hitting level cap) and the 6 progressive end-game dungeons (Scholomance, Stratholme Living + UD, Blackrock Depths, Upper + Lower Blackrock Spire)?

They probably shut up because it's no point in arguing with someone as delusional as you are.

icnfde:

Karathos:
People I leveled with on release started bitching about lack of content the moment they hit 50. Once I politely reminded them how little endgame content WoW had on release, that shut up quite a few naysayers.

You mean the 2 complete 40-man raids (MC+Ony, which unlike TOR, didn't get cleared a week within hitting level cap) and the 6 progressive end-game dungeons (Scholomance, Stratholme Living + UD, Blackrock Depths, Upper + Lower Blackrock Spire)?

They probably shut up because it's no point in arguing with someone as delusional as you are.

It's also worth pointing out that WOW is getting on for the best part of a decade old now, and came out at a time when MMOs were still pretty new territory for developers. I think most gamers now would expect development to have advanced a bit from what developers were doing 8 years ago.

It's kind of like if a developer were to go "Hey guys, have you seen this shooter we're making? Well, you'll never guess what. We've totally included online mutliplayer. For. Consoles. We know, we know, super cool right?"

"...yeah, what?"

Pardon me if I expect a little more now from developers than I did 8 years ago.

icnfde:

Karathos:
People I leveled with on release started bitching about lack of content the moment they hit 50. Once I politely reminded them how little endgame content WoW had on release, that shut up quite a few naysayers.

You mean the 2 complete 40-man raids (MC+Ony, which unlike TOR, didn't get cleared a week within hitting level cap) and the 6 progressive end-game dungeons (Scholomance, Stratholme Living + UD, Blackrock Depths, Upper + Lower Blackrock Spire)?

They probably shut up because it's no point in arguing with someone as delusional as you are.

The two 40 mans were Onyxia and MC. However, you couldn't walk right in. There were quest lines to become "keyed". The Ony chain was very long, and included runs through some of the 5 mans before you could enter. MC had 8 bosses, and due to some "resistance" fights, quite a bit of farming for resist gear was needed . This model was abandoned mostly from Vanilla on with a few exceptions. The first bosses of MC were killed in January of 05, a few months after release. Almost every other raid since vanilla has been cleared either the same day or a few days after the release of the instance so its not like MMOs have a history of providing challenging raid content (See mmo-champion website for source). I personally like the idea of being able to cake walk through the first couple of raid tiers as the game is developed (See Naxxrammus 2 which was easy mode).

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