U.K. Politician Using Oslo Shooting to Change Ratings

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MammothBlade:
What a tit. Maybe we should put a rating on parliamentarians. In this case, Keith Vaz is rated R for Retarded.

Screamarie:

That game did not make Breivik who he is and it did not make him a killer. The fact that he is schizophrenic made him who he is and that's what made him a killer. It's as simple as that.

It's not a fact that he has schizophrenia, nor is it that simple. I'm more inclined to think, and more recent evaluations have suggested, that he is a sociopathic and malignant narcissist who went to extremes to fulfill his fantasies of glory and fame. That, and schizophrenic people are not born killers.

I haven't kept up with what they've been saying about him or his mental illnesses, last I had heard they were calling him schizophrenic.

I admit my wording is off, but I never intended my statement to mean that being schizophrenic means you are are killer. Just that it can aide in making someone a killer. More my point was simply that the shooting happened because of his own personal mental issues than anything the game could have supposedly taught him.

Adam Jensen:
Old men without the understanding of new generation lifestyle trying to legislate what he doesn't understand. What else is new? It won't last anyway.

true dat bro

You know he's completely missing the point, that the shooter was an insane right wing demagogue.

I heard that the Romans got the idea for their Coliseum's from violent video games.

*looks at link*

"Total number of signatures: 8"

Out of 650 MPs. Yeah, not many people really taking this guy seriously. It is quite sad what people will use to try and further their own agendas though.

Not this prick again, at least he is a opposition back bencher so no one gives a shit what he has to say anyway.

Callate:
...So is he planning to use all the violence associated with soccer to upmark EA's FIFA games as well?

Invalid point. In FIFA, you play soccer. You do not have a hooligan minigame in which you run around pubs smashing bottles over peoples heads.

I hate it when people say this. Really does not do us any favors.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
snip

That's true. But on the other hand, there's far more violence associated with soccer fandom than there is with playing violent video games, yet there doesn't seem to be a queue to suggest that there should be more regulations of soccer fandom, that children should be kept away from soccer stadiums, that soccer might be leading to the degeneration of youth morality.

It was a ridiculous point meant to address what is also a ridiculous point, and highlight the fact that the "problem" Mr. Vaz wishes to address seems like it has more to do with playing to hysteria and techno-phobia to the cost of a voting block seen as negligible and less likely to respond than actually addressing violence.

Callate:
yet ther

e doesn't seem to be a queue to suggest that there should be more regulations of soccer fandom, that children should be kept away from soccer stadiums, that soccer might be leading to the degeneration of youth morality.

Maybe there doesnt seem to be one from your standpoint, but I can see people calling for that over here. Discussions on whether soccer matches should be held in front of a live audience, ever increasing numbers of police forces in stadiums, separating hooligans from families, debates on hooliganism, debates on the ban of fireworks in stadiums...

The difference is this fucking website will run an article on every cockroach that talks about video games while no one reports on problems in the soccer world.

Callate:
It was a ridiculous point meant to address what is also a ridiculous point, and highlight the fact that the "problem" Mr. Vaz wishes to address seems like it has more to do with playing to hysteria and techno-phobia to the cost of a voting block seen as negligible and less likely to respond than actually addressing violence.

His argument is a lot less ridiculous than yours. (And thats saying something!) Linking shooting people to a video game in which you shoot people is an obvious connection to make, if an incorrect one. Linking a video game in which you kick a ball around to what happens 4 hours after people kicked a ball around in the real world is much further out there.

Sorry if I am having a bit of a go at you here, I am just sick to death of hearing this stupid "99% of serial killers eat bread, ban bread!" argument.

So does that mean I can drive because I played Heat online or Need for Speed and that because of Armoured Core I am qualified to operate heavy machinery? I can see why people who are out of touch make these connections but if they ever tried these games and then a real gun they would see how far off their statements are.

If CoD can't even teach people to use one of these right what hope does it have of teach people how to use real guns with recoil. Even excluding the point that you need to have a certain something to actually kill someone let alone just shoot the damn thing straight.

Although I am glad there was a lack of signatures.

Farther than stars:

Jodah:

Farther than stars:

That's right, murder the opposition with a blunt object. Thanks for helping further enforce the stereotype. >.>

What stereotype? I use a brick not a gun. Everyone knows only guns kill people and only video games make people kill people...with guns.

So, you're avoiding responsibility for your earlier statement by using irony to support our side of the argument. That's actually rather clever. :)

Don't bother being nice, Jodah. They're so bitter about the fact that their politicians are the ones being retarded this time that even a friendly, tongue-in-cheek show of support is met with bile.

OT: Haha Brits. How does it feel to have people like this in your government? It must mean that ALL of you are misinformed, pro-censorship douche-bags!

A dog told the Sun of Sam killer to shoot women and he ultimately claimed half a dozen lives, I think it was.

BAN DOGS!

Fact: violence didn't exist before video games.

Fact: violent crime is on the rise in every country that allows video games.

Oh wait.

Loop Stricken:
Oh for fuck's sake. When did my country decide to regress to the fucking Dark Ages?

... oh right, that election thing.

Well we elected a conservative government. That seemed to do the trick, taxing the poor, making a good education more exclusive. Yup, electing those there elitists sure set us forward!

That said I voted Lib Dem. Because Labour simply can not win in my constituency.

I don't want to live in this country anymore, I'm going to Switzerland, nothing stupid seems to happen there.

OT: Yeah this guy, I don't know why we let him speak.

Is guy still at it? Jesus, you have to credit his determination.

He "trained" for the killings by playing CoD? Really?!

So I guess that explains when he started the actual shooting his gun was shaped like a console controller, oh wait...

Honestly, my guess is that Anders made that up just to put a stick up the asses of polititians.

And as for this Keith guy...Ugh, never heard of him before but I don't need to. He's just another old fart who doesn't understand videogames and so tries to destroy everyones fun.

Hannibal942:

Loop Stricken:
Oh for fuck's sake. When did my country decide to regress to the fucking Dark Ages?

... oh right, that election thing.

Forgive this ignorant Yank, but are the conservatives in power currently?

They're the dominant party in a coalition, but Vaz is Labour anyway, ie not conservative in theory.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Maybe there doesnt seem to be one from your standpoint, but I can see people calling for that over here. Discussions on whether soccer matches should be held in front of a live audience, ever increasing numbers of police forces in stadiums, separating hooligans from families, debates on hooliganism, debates on the ban of fireworks in stadiums...

The difference is this fucking website will run an article on every cockroach that talks about video games while no one reports on problems in the soccer world.

I shall now ignore the point of this thread, but is it really that bad over there? Because we're supposed to have the worst football hooliganism in the world in the UK, and no one's trying to separate hooligans from their families or debating hooliganism and not having live audiences.

Even if his law or ideals existed in Oslo during the planning, Brevik would have still gotten COD regardless.And I think even if it did teach him anything (I would think AA would teach him more and its free) the loans he was able to get helped him achieve far more than knowing how to shoot actually did.I wish politicians and media people that say such stupid things would be forced to retract the statement or be kicked out, its far more dangerous than COD because they may get someone to believe them (goose stepping anyone?) The big fiction disclaimers on most games separate the sane and goofy ;-)

DJjaffacake:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Maybe there doesnt seem to be one from your standpoint, but I can see people calling for that over here. Discussions on whether soccer matches should be held in front of a live audience, ever increasing numbers of police forces in stadiums, separating hooligans from families, debates on hooliganism, debates on the ban of fireworks in stadiums...

The difference is this fucking website will run an article on every cockroach that talks about video games while no one reports on problems in the soccer world.

I shall now ignore the point of this thread, but is it really that bad over there? Because we're supposed to have the worst football hooliganism in the world in the UK, and no one's trying to separate hooligans from their families or debating hooliganism and not having live audiences.

In the UK hooligans are bad because the whole scene has pretty much transformed into organized crime at this point. Over here they are more traditional. I dont know how the debate over in the UK is since I dont live there anymore, just talking about my experience in Germany. (And judging by recent events, this debate about football fans has spread to Eastern Europe too.)

It probably is worse in the UK, but you know Germany. Anything that shatters order or slips a toe over the line immediately sends quakes through the nation. Silly really, but just the way Germans are.

Thought Vaz was quite coherent and intelligible over the whole hacking and Leveson inquiry business.

... Now think entirely the opposite. Just another passenger aboard the bandwagon of ignorance and not-thinking-about-things.

Loop Stricken:
Oh for fuck's sake. When did my country decide to regress to the fucking Dark Ages?

... oh right, that election thing.

How did we ACCIDENTALLY vote in the Tories? Seriously, it was the worst possible move we could have made, and now everyone's complaining about taxes and strikes and job loss... ugh. [/rant]

Samantha Burt:

Loop Stricken:
Oh for fuck's sake. When did my country decide to regress to the fucking Dark Ages?

... oh right, that election thing.

How did we ACCIDENTALLY vote in the Tories? Seriously, it was the worst possible move we could have made, and now everyone's complaining about taxes and strikes and job loss... ugh. [/rant]

Its because of all those people (including me), who fell for Nick Clegg's act hook line and sinker that we now have the Tories in power. The man has as much integrity as fucking sponge. Never again.

He called CoD a simulation?

The military should make an uproar about this. It's a complete disrespect not so much for the people who are serving, but for the people THAT HAVE ACTUALLY DIED performing their duties.

Also, using tragedy to gain leverage. You have to be a shameless bastard to use the death of people to start pushing your political agenda.

Farther than stars:
That's right, murder the opposition with a blunt object. Thanks for helping further enforce the stereotype. >.>

What stereotype? Americans exist because they FOUGHT DA POWAH. It's not a stereotype, it's a way of living.

You're only helping propagate the stereotype that we Europeans have a superiority complex and hate Americans.

Glademaster:
Even excluding the point that you need to have a certain something to actually kill someone let alone just shoot the damn thing straight.

Although I am glad there was a lack of signatures.

Breivik had to train with his rifle to maintain his gun ownership, and he was using a .223 Mini-14. That caliber doesn't kick hard.

The point is that he probably used the game for conditioning (the willingness of the average soldier to shoot another human the first time they have one in their sights increased when the first generation who grew up with videogames was deployed) - people are just misinterpreting what Breivik said.

Greg Tito:
Now, he is using the recent testimony from the Norweigan shooter Anders Breivik to demand for stricter classification of games.

You know, when you start using the rantings of an insane mass murderer to support your cause, it's time for you to reevaluate your cause and precisely how desperate you are for support.

(Guys, if I ever get to the point where I say "Well, Charles Manson thinks I'm right!" someone please shoot me.)

Thank fuck I live in some backwater Eastern-European armpit nobody gives a shit about where I can acquire whatever video games I want in any way I want and do with them as I please.
Oh wait.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Maybe there doesnt seem to be one from your standpoint, but I can see people calling for that over here. Discussions on whether soccer matches should be held in front of a live audience, ever increasing numbers of police forces in stadiums, separating hooligans from families, debates on hooliganism, debates on the ban of fireworks in stadiums...

The difference is this fucking website will run an article on every cockroach that talks about video games while no one reports on problems in the soccer world.

Yet I bet the vast majority of that conversation focuses on the "hooligans", not on soccer itself.

Sports get all tied up with nationality and local image, encouraging people to identify with players and see them as larger-than-life, as "heroes". The commercial aspects of the games very much depend on this- on season ticket-holders, on people who dress in the colors and hang banners in their windows, people who make the advertisements played during the games attractive space to advertisers.

I admit, I can't speak with absolute certainty about soccer overseas. But over here, there are regular stories about the owners of sports teams demanding costly new stadiums, facilities, and every kind of concession from the cities they call home- and frequently getting them. Because the games are a non-trivial part of local economies, and because the attitudes people evidence towards their home teams often make those games all but sacrosanct.

One could argue that there's a case to be made that certain team sports encourage aggression- perhaps even more than violent video games, because the sense of community, rather than holding fans to a higher standard, creates an atmosphere that enables violent behavior, creates a new norm in which such actions are viewed as acceptable.

I would not necessarily make such a case. But I wouldn't suggest such a claim was less compelling than the one that video games beget violence. The comparison- or lack thereof- has far less to do with the credibility of one over the other and far more to do with the aggressive nature of sports being held to a different standard, with sports being considered a regular and acceptable part of daily life, a healthy activity for young people to excel in and a reasonable means of venting aggression.

His argument is a lot less ridiculous than yours. (And thats saying something!) Linking shooting people to a video game in which you shoot people is an obvious connection to make, if an incorrect one. Linking a video game in which you kick a ball around to what happens 4 hours after people kicked a ball around in the real world is much further out there.

Sorry if I am having a bit of a go at you here, I am just sick to death of hearing this stupid "99% of serial killers eat bread, ban bread!" argument.

I understand where you're coming from; suffice it to say I disagree about the relative ridiculousness of the cases. Perhaps more to the point, without such comparisons it may prove difficult for someone who doesn't appreciate video games to understand why the connection being made between the two is inappropriate. So-called "common sense" connections, as applied to hot-button topics, are wrong with remarkable frequency.

Loop Stricken:
Oh for fuck's sake. When did my country decide to regress to the fucking Dark Ages?

... oh right, that election thing.

Don't you mean "that politics thing"? I hear you man, our country's priorities are clearly a fucking joke.

ElPatron:

Farther than stars:
That's right, murder the opposition with a blunt object. Thanks for helping further enforce the stereotype. >.>

What stereotype? Americans exist because they FOUGHT DA POWAH. It's not a stereotype, it's a way of living.

You're only helping propagate the stereotype that we Europeans have a superiority complex and hate Americans.

I was actually talking about a different stereotype.

Farther than stars:
snip

Explain?

What is wrong with eliminating people who threaten freedom?

ElPatron:

Farther than stars:
snip

Explain?

What is wrong with eliminating people who threaten freedom?

Well, there's the "elimination" part of course, which seems - how do i put this? - drastic? :P
It's just that I believe a democratic society should uphold two values: freedom and respect. I believe you should always respect another person's beliefs and rights, even if you don't agree with them and even if it threatens freedom at the same time. Because once you lose respect in a society, you're just left with freedom and that might as well be the anarchy of the jungle.

Farther than stars:
Well, there's the "elimination" part of course, which seems - how do i put this? - drastic? :P
It's just that I believe a democratic society should uphold two values: freedom and respect. I believe you should always respect another person's beliefs and rights, even if you don't agree with them and even if it threatens freedom at the same time. Because once you lose respect in a society, you're just left with freedom and that might as well be the anarchy of the jungle.

Well but the United States of America are built on the premise of eliminating tyranny by it's root.

It's not drastic. Drastic is accepting losing freedom step by step until the point where the Orwellian dystopia will be welcomed by society.

ElPatron:

Farther than stars:
Well, there's the "elimination" part of course, which seems - how do i put this? - drastic? :P
It's just that I believe a democratic society should uphold two values: freedom and respect. I believe you should always respect another person's beliefs and rights, even if you don't agree with them and even if it threatens freedom at the same time. Because once you lose respect in a society, you're just left with freedom and that might as well be the anarchy of the jungle.

Well but the United States of America are built on the premise of eliminating tyranny by it's root.

It's not drastic. Drastic is accepting losing freedom step by step until the point where the Orwellian dystopia will be welcomed by society.

Hey, you're not reading what I'm saying. Society needs both freedom and respect to democratic (and pleasant to live in). It's kinda like the Heisenburg principle in that way.

Farther than stars:
Hey, you're not reading what I'm saying. Society needs both freedom and respect to democratic (and pleasant to live in). It's kinda like the Heisenburg principle in that way.

Hint: when you're against freedom, you are a threat to democracy.

ElPatron:

Farther than stars:
Hey, you're not reading what I'm saying. Society needs both freedom and respect to democratic (and pleasant to live in). It's kinda like the Heisenburg principle in that way.

Hint: when you're against freedom, you are a threat to democracy.

I know, that's what I just said, but thanks for parroting it back to me.

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