Germany Bans the Xbox 360

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First thought? Well i know Germans are PC gamers but this may be a tad far.

wait, so did Motorola develop the h.264 codec? It seems that it would have been far better to allow/sell/receive royalties for the use of the codec as im fairly certain that apple use it for its videos so germany can ditch all apple products...oh wait, apple makes the iphone and the average person (by which i mean the old ass judge) has one or has kids that have one.

wait, why stop there, blu-ray players use h.264 (im not sure all the time but i do know that its a standard), divx players, hell, ban the computer as people can encode h.264 using this.

except that this news is sensationalist and completely useless since all court decisions in Europe are not being enforced until a ruling in Seattle regarding a restraining order against Motorola. And even then the EU commission may just decide that American companies can keep their patent trolling in the US and overrule this.

Jack and Calumon:
Someone has to make a Downfall parody over this, seriously. This just sets itself up perfectly for one.

Also, it appears no-one has yet forgotten that Germany started a few wars and had a man who ruined Charlie Chaplin's facial hair style, a sacred buddhist symbol, and how people look when they are left hanging when trying to get a High Five.

In all seriousness, I think this might make Microsoft do something a bit more than a double take and they ought to go to Motorola with some nice wine and fresh lipstick.

Calumon: They should ban Playstations! They're heavy and fall on you and you can't move no matter how hard you wriggle! D:

I feel with Calumon in this case, I once had a PS2 fall on my head while sleeping, it started bleeding and I had to go to the hospital :(.

If I had lived in America I would have sued Sony for making the PS2 so heavy and for not warning me that putting it in a position where it could easily fall on your head while sleeping was a bad idea.

Strangely, I live in Germany and I haven't heard a peep about that. Actually was at my Gamestore yesterday. Hmmm...

I'm English and living in Berlin, and I have to say...I don't care about xboxes. I get all my games ordered from the UK cos its cheaper, and even then they're PS3 or PC games.

And I remember 4/5 years ago when my friends said I was crazy to get a PS3 over an xbox or (hehe) a Wii.

Jack and Calumon:
Someone has to make a Downfall parody over this, seriously. This just sets itself up perfectly for one.

Also, it appears no-one has yet forgotten that Germany started a few wars and had a man who ruined Charlie Chaplin's facial hair style, a sacred buddhist symbol, and how people look when they are left hanging when trying to get a High Five.

In all seriousness, I think this might make Microsoft do something a bit more than a double take and they ought to go to Motorola with some nice wine and fresh lipstick.

Calumon: They should ban Playstations! They're heavy and fall on you and you can't move no matter how hard you wriggle! D:

This is just me being pedandtic, but Hitler was Austrian, not German (well, scratch that. He became a German citizen in 1932, but you get the point).

I thought this was appropriate

image

There is not one of these tech giants that doesn't have more money already than God. If they banded together they could probably rule the world as unconquerable tyrants, yet they insist on self destructing themselves.

Candidly all this makes want to continue

image

Risingblade:
There needs to be more FPS on the 360 where we kill Germans. Note I said Germans and not Nazis :P

Excuse me? As someone being German and living in Germany I'd really like to hear you explaining your point.

Out of all the reasons.....
Looks like Germanys court is trolling nicely.

Id say this is why software patents are good for a change, after all, eggsbox just got dropped.

On the other hand, who still uses that codec anyway?

First of all, Man, all that facepalming throughout the past 4 pages gave me a bloody nose.

Secondly, while Microsoft is in appeal against this decision, nothing gets banned. Nothing. At. All.

And now I'll be preparing some lame puns involving, idunno, Indians and slaves for August this year, when the very same lawsuit is being decided in the US, mkay?

harvz:
...
wait, why stop there, blu-ray players use h264 (I'm not sure all the time but i do know that its a standard), divx players, hell, ban the computer as people can encode h264 using this.

Most of those already pay the licencing fee for the part of the codec they have the patent for. VLC probably does not, and VLC is debatable illegal in some countries, because of libdvdcss. Their was controversy over x264 but the trial found that x264 violated the patent, but was unenforceable in the US, I believe, since their was no way to calculate damages or losses.

PC's are affected by this ruling since Win7 did not get a licence, but windows XP and Vista are unaffected.

Grey Day for Elcia:

Oh, and for the record my standpoint is that while individuals having a right to their creations is good, the implementation of patents and intellectual property is so insanely stupid that it hurts my head. For example: Nintendo owns the rights to the D-pad (plus, cross) style of gamepad, see below.

Actually, in the late 80s or early 90s, they advertised it as patented. USPTO.gov is being horrible right now, so I can't be sure, but it appears that the LATEST application that is relevant comes from 1997 and would have applied from 1994. Assuming that's the actual patent date, they have two more years on it.

This is one of the big reasons I don't have much of a problem with patents. Even the silly ones expire. 20 years may seem a bit long, but it's still not like the copyright system, where we no longer have a public domain.

The silly ones are unlikely to hold up in court, anyway. I kind of wonder if Nintendo's patent would hold, or your other example of games played during a loading screen. Patents can be abused, but are still a fairly well-controlled for of intellectual property law otherwise.

I know you're not particularly offering an opinion; I'm just saying that not all of this is bad. Sometimes, it's a touch anal, but there was a time when that cross pad really was revolutionary.

What pissed me off was Motorola's smug-sounding victory speech about their victory against Microsoft.

If I heard that in person, I would've started a fucking shooting spree. Microsoft's shady and I don't know a thing about Motorola's reputation, but fucking over the interests of the consumers without any semblance of remorse? Burn, you son of a bitch.

Zachary Amaranth:

Grey Day for Elcia:

Oh, and for the record my standpoint is that while individuals having a right to their creations is good, the implementation of patents and intellectual property is so insanely stupid that it hurts my head. For example: Nintendo owns the rights to the D-pad (plus, cross) style of gamepad, see below.

Actually, in the late 80s or early 90s, they advertised it as patented. USPTO.gov is being horrible right now, so I can't be sure, but it appears that the LATEST application that is relevant comes from 1997 and would have applied from 1994. Assuming that's the actual patent date, they have two more years on it.

This is one of the big reasons I don't have much of a problem with patents. Even the silly ones expire. 20 years may seem a bit long, but it's still not like the copyright system, where we no longer have a public domain.

The silly ones are unlikely to hold up in court, anyway. I kind of wonder if Nintendo's patent would hold, or your other example of games played during a loading screen. Patents can be abused, but are still a fairly well-controlled for of intellectual property law otherwise.

I know you're not particularly offering an opinion; I'm just saying that not all of this is bad. Sometimes, it's a touch anal, but there was a time when that cross pad really was revolutionary.

Mmmm. Very true, your last paragraph. It's a difficult issue, one that must balance the rights of a creator with the rights of the public. Moreover, it makes me wonder just what those rights should be--if any. Hard stuff.

Lucky Germany! If they banned PS3s and Xboxs worldwide we could get on with properly using technology rather than being held back by 6 year old technology.

*lol*

Well, tough luck for Microsoft I suppose.

And the best part, I'm from Mannheim. Go Mannheim, our courts are the best! :D

10BIT:
These kinds of news always remind me of this quote:

"If the real world could be patented like software, expect to be sued every time you place one foot in front of the other to propel yourself forwards."

savageoblivi0n:

Sir Ollie:

These Nazi jokes are making me Fuhrerious.

I don't know about you but I'm Goebbeling them up

Can we stop it with the Nazi puns, please; they're offensive and take me out of Mein Kampfort zone.

Why don't you read this then.

image

Xerosch:

Risingblade:
There needs to be more FPS on the 360 where we kill Germans. Note I said Germans and not Nazis :P

Excuse me? As someone being German and living in Germany I'd really like to hear you explaining your point.

That not all Germans are Nazis and we need more games where they do not play that stereotype. Do you have a problem with that?

oh that's hilarious...

-.-

a few fun facts for the xbox fanbois in the house :

the xbox 360s chip design was basically stolen from Sony (via backhand double dealing from IBM), the thing makes continual massive losses for a company that was built from the ground up on the fundamental principal that producing software is a far more profitable enterprise than producing hardware (losses that MS has continually tried but failed to hide from shareholders by placing the xbox division within other sections of the company for accounting purposes) and the only reason the console division is still part of the company is because of Ballmer ("the most hated CEO in the industry") who believes selling the box is a means to deliver his and Bills old monopolistic dream of having a box running their software in every home...Ballmer who is 56 years old...and a console generation (partly because of his stewardship of the box) is now supposedly going to be 10 years or more...do the maths...IF there is a next gen xbox it will probably be the last because the simple fact is, in the real world outside the realms of games console fanbois and internet forums the Microsoft shareholders want "the xbox project" dead and buried and the company to concentrate on its "core business" of selling billions of copies of highly, highly profitable software. fact.

Microsoft will become the next Sega and make a boardroom decision to pull out of the console hardware business (basically as soon as Ballmer leaves his current position as CEO and the large institutional shareholders get to appoint the next one) and virtually every industry analyst on Wall Street worth his salt knows its only a matter of time.

MSs current business plan for the xbox is about extracting as much cash as possible from the people who buy it (who weirdly enough claim to do so because "its cheap" a lot of the time) in order attempt to get the entire project somewhere near breaking even but even with addons like the Kinect, an on-line content delivery system that shuts out anyone who won't give them a substantial cut and thus locks out huge global gaming trends such as "f2p" and extending the console generation as far as possible to the point phones (phones !) are shortly going to have more capable hardware they basically are still never going to manage to make those books balance for the project even when viewed in it's entirety thus far.

"the xbox project" has been a financial failure for two console generations and over 11 years and fanbois are paying through the nose for supporting a machine that was basically a bad idea for the company that produced it from the start and has never even managed to keep pace with its own original goals.

there was originally supposed to be a DirectXbox for every version of DirectX...you are current playing DirectX 9 version (the same DirectX as exists on Windows XP)...PC gamers will shortly get DirectX 12...and up.

phones !

"loyalty" to a lump of silicon and plastic...made by Microsoft no less...jebus.../facepalm.

Microsoft didn't make the games you love mmmkay?.

they just sold you a cheap PC in a small box with controllers for less than it was worth for their own nefarious purposes which have completely failed to pay off.

you may now go back to your let's make snide jokes about shooting Germans because MS lost a patent case routine...

"We are pleased that the Mannheim Court found that Microsoft products infringe Motorola Mobility's intellectual property,"

And then he laughed maniacally like a supervillain.

DVS BSTrD:
While ordering them to destroy existing stock is harsh, it shouldn't come as a surprise. It's not like the Xbox would be the first thing cooked in a Deutsch oven.

You, sir, are terrible beyond human understanding. And because of that...I have to congratulate you.

OT: I'm not really surprised this happened, as Microsoft is an American company (I'm American, so I know first hand of our dick baggery), but I doubt that they won't be able to distribute 360s in Germany forever.

Grey Day for Elcia:
Mmmm. Very true, your last paragraph. It's a difficult issue, one that must balance the rights of a creator with the rights of the public. Moreover, it makes me wonder just what those rights should be--if any. Hard stuff.

It's hard to say. I like the patent model that only protects it as an item is still novel (one of the reasons you can use a patent), but for copyrighted works, I think it should be somewhat longer. In the UK, the Beatles are starting to become public domain, and that seems fair. Though the publishers and the like are trying to fight it and change the laws so they're more like ours.

Copyright should not be transferable in perpetuity, like we have now. I think (though I admit this might be a touch pipe-dream-ish) that eliminating the ability to transfer copyright would probably clean up a lot of the mess we have with games, music and books. One of the big problems with games right now is that publishers (big ones anyway) demand the rights to your intellectual property, which means you can't take it with you. This is a huge problem for game developers, and also limits the money they themselves can get instead of the publisher. But as long as it's allowed, it's going to happen. It's sorta like your boss asking for your facebook password. You can say no, but you're probably screwed. This case, though, it's your work itself in question.

The music industry at least used to do this with the master tapes, trademarks (look at Prince), and sometimes even the works themselves. This is why I brought them up. And publishers sometimes want the rights to your work in literature, as well.

I think a solid ownership would clear up a lot of problems with games, as publishers could no longer demand the rights to your idea just to go through with it, then fire you or put you on other projects. It wouldn't solve everything, but it would offer a stronger bargaining position to the artists and possibly break some of the corporate trends.

I've wandered off the topic of patents, mind, but it's something worth bringing up.

Bvenged:
For using codecs? srsly? Microsoft, Motorola? Look at yourselves.

You both look like this:
image

After looking at the URL of the "genious" meme image, I will now collect my prize for using the biggest URL every entered for a single object on these forums. I would like to thank my family and friends, the community here on teh forums and the employees of teh magazine for making this a reality. Just, wow - and thank you all.

It looks like that "URL" actually codes for pixels or something like that. Paste half the URL into the address bar and see what you get.

OT: Isn't there a place where you can get a patent on something for X amount of years before anyone else can use it for free?

Sometimes ya have to think wouldn't it be easier for Bill Gates just to buy Motorola? :)

And, just because I don't think anyone's been so crass to mention him in a thread about Germany, here's my favourite Hitler sketch:

Andy Shandy:

Torrasque:

Gearhead mk2:
Oh, this thread is gonna have so many nazi jokes, isn't it? *sigh*

I can say I did nazi this coming.

Anne Frankly, I won't stand for it.

Damn it you ninja'd me for the Anne Frankley. Oh well I THINK THIS THREAD WILL BE heilarious that it will become reichdiculous

I'm no fan of the Xbox360... or Microsoft for that matter but, THIS COPYRIGHT SHIT NEEDS TO END NOW...

This is getting fucking absurd... I mean... holy fuck... Free Market Economics... what the fuck happened to that. Stand back, get out of the way and let people do. Don't allow them to establish themselves, so that any different forms of competition can compete with them if they so chose... WHAT THE FUCK HAS GONE WRONG????????

...Just... Copyright needs revolutionizing... it should give some protection, but NEVER should someones product be banned for infringing copyright, merely pay royalties... just... what the fuck... this is crazy... It's so insane I've lost the ability to think properly...

aprildog18:

It looks like that "URL" actually codes for pixels or something like that. Paste half the URL into the address bar and see what you get.

OT: Isn't there a place where you can get a patent on something for X amount of years before anyone else can use it for free?

That's because it does. All it is is a jpeg thrown into base64 encoding and then told to be shown by the browser.

sniper9474:
I have a German Xbox 360, and in the case of a recall they will have a harder time getting it off me then they would have retaking Berlin from the Russians.

Here's to Motorola's 2012 sales tanking in Germany.

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