Teller Sues Over "Stolen" Magic Trick Pages 1 2 3 NEXT | |
You can copyright a performance, but tricks could (only perhaps) be patented. More specifically, some of the gadgets and processes could be patented. Copyright is a lot easier to enforce, because you actually have "copyright" the moment you create a work. All that's left, then, is to prove that you were the first to have that right over the creation (which is all that registration does). If it's obvious you're the one in the video, there's less need to register. Patents, however, have to be registered to have any real teeth. If Teller didn't think to patent this stuff beforehand... or if the trick uses a different process or gadget to approximate the same effect... well, he's up a creek. | |
Well with a trick like that under his belt you could see why he wants to keep it under wraps. Plus if its his signiture performance that just adds another reason to keep people from copying. | |
I dont see why you'd want to steal another magicians trick, kinda ruins the whole point of being a magicians as well as making you a douche. | |
companies being forbidden to sell stuff in certain countries | |
The way magicians used to work was figure out other magicians tricks then make them better to one up them. It would create rivalry and good shows but if you're going to figure out the trick then sell it you need to just GTFO. | |
Woah, That is one hell of a illusion/trick. I can understand why he wantts to keep it a secret. Also copying someone elses trick sound like douchebag behavior. | |
Anyone else reminded of The Prestige? One guy comes up with an impressive trick that he believes no one can figure out, then a rival magician goes about trying to figure it out, coming up with his own methods. The only thing left is for Teller and this other guy to keep one upping each other. | |
I wouldn't mind him copying and perhaps "improving" the trick, but selling it? That's just low and very douchy. | |
Illusion, Michael. A trick is something a whore does for money. | |
Well, Sorry... Why do you have to point it out in the first place?! So that you can laugh at me in the open? Is that it?! *Runs away crying* Erhm... Anyways I have corrected it. Though I still think "trick" applies. | |
I wonder what the outcome of this will be. I assume you can't copyright or patent the concept of cutting a flower; he'd have to patent the method and have to detail how it's done. Unless I'm completely wrong on how that process works, there probably isn't a good outcome for Teller on this case. Either Bakarady sells a method of doing this, or Teller has to explain why Bakarady's version is or isn't the real one. I don't know why anyone else would add this trick to their repertoire though. It'd just be the trick that they ripped off from Teller and people would know that. | |
Teller's a magician why don't he just saw the guy in half and not put the pieces back together? I could understand how awesome it would be to figure out an illusion like that, but selling the secret ruins it for EVERYBODY. | |
Ok, yeah, if someone else is doing the same trick as you, it'd be annoying, but copyrighting it? C'mon. Also, yeah, you aren't supposed to tell people how to do them, but that's hardly set in stone. Hell, he went and demonstrated how some things are done himself. | |
You do NOT rip off Penn & Teller. That is like the biggest dick move in magic. I hope Bakardy's career suffers because of his theft. | |
i don't see a problem with another magician reverse-engineering a trick and using it in a performance, but he fact that he actually is selling the mystery just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. what an asshole. | |
You beat me to the punch. That's why you always leave a note. Greg | |
Any theories on how it's done? | |
I'm curious about this - I get that a magician could patent the illusion/trick to stop people copying it, but wouldn't that involve documenting how the illusion/trick is done in the patent? And aren't patents publically viewable by anyone so that you can work out whether your idea is already patented? Sounds like a rock-hard place situation - you either don't patent it and have people blab or patent it and everyone can work out how its done. | |
Newsflash: Magicians sell tricks all the time. I picked up magic when I was younger and what you buy in magic shops are not props really, but the knowledge of how to do certain tricks. Go to any magic forum worth its name and you will see people selling tricks to one-another. Also, while 3 grands is a lot of money for a trick, it is not unheard of. Kudos to the guy for figuring it. | |
How would the court proceedings go Teller:"..." | |
And now I want to watch The Prestige again. | |
Pretty sure the article says "It comes with an instructional video and a fake rose." So I'd imagine they use a fake rose that's designed to fall apart. | |
Hell, even if you disagree with the action You gotta agree that's one HELL of a magician trick. I can only imagine how complicated taht must be. | |
I don't think it's so much this dude copied the illusion so much as he's selling DVD for THREE-BUCKING-GRAND. | |
Wow, that's a dick move on Bakardy's part. Penn and Teller all the darn way! | |
Why do you care so much about the price? Maybe he should've sold it for $3 or given it away for free on youtube so that even more people get access to it? Do you think Penn and Teller just started learning magic by figuring out by themselves how it works? The big tricks that you see most magicians pull will cost you a lot of money. Magicians won't simply go "Oh you are learning magic, here's how it works, have a nice day!". Most times you have to buy instruction books and dvds, even for a single move, not even a full trick. | |
I could MAYBE understand and accept this Bakardy seeing and understanding Teller's trick and then using it to inspire his own, making something new out of it...but just taking it verbatim and then SELLING it...that's just being an asshole. Especially for so frickin' much. There's no way that a magic kit should ever cost 3,000 dollars, unless it's the saw the woman in half trick and the kit comes with the woman. I hope Teller wins the case or at the very least Barkardy isn't allowed to sell the kit anymore. | |
Copying the trick seems well within the guy's rights in the same way that someone is allowed to create fanart/fanfiction but selling it for $3000 bucks? Whether that's within his rights to do so or not, it's incredibly sleazy. | |
It'd be different, I think, if the person who figured this out did it themselves, or taught apprentices to do it or what not... you really can't fault somebody for trying to learn your trick, to figure out how you do it, as that's more or less the bloody point. The problem is the danger of the trick becoming common knowledge, and therefore worthless to anyone. I mean, once you approach the point where you're selling those magic rings to folks in joke shops, you lose your audience for that trick. Granted, charging 3 grand for the secret to the trick pretty much ensures that only serious magicians will pick this up... it'd be a lot to pay for casual curiousity. On the other hand, all it takes is one person to buy this thing and upload it to Youtube, and suddenly everyone will know how this trick is done... a trick that apparently has great personal significance for Teller, and which is the product of his genius alone. Something HE could have sold for a lot of money, but decided not to because it was worth more to him to keep the secret. I dunno. I have to sympathize with the guy, and I do believe that a new trick is just as much an act of creation as writing a book. However, if you write a romance novel that's a huge success, and someone analyzes your book to figure out why the emotions work and writes a different book that works for the same reasons... well, you don't get sued. :-P Uphill battle, indeed. | |
Hmmm... remote controlled, maybe? It's still damn clever, even if that's the case! I've only seen this trick done once (in the movie provided)... I wonder if he cuts the rose in exactly the same order each time he performs the trick...? | |
I feel bad for Teller, because that trick is really personal to him I think, and to have someone take that and sell it is just...ugh. Disgusting. I'm foggy on the copyright laws about magic tricks, but I hope Teller wins this one. Also slightly unrelated, but I wonder if Penn knows how the trick works. | |
Seeing as how Penn & Teller made their names exposing magic tricks, I find this lawsuit interesting. | |
Okay, some people feel it's pretty scummy for Gerard Bakardy to sell Teller's illusion for $3000. But you know what's much worse? Anyone who would pay Bakardy for Teller's illusion. You didn't create it. You didn't even figure it out from seeing the original. You paid some third party to "steal" it for you? And you're going to walk out on stage and perform it. I can think of a few words that Penn Jillette would use on Showtime for that behavior. | |
I definitely don't have a problem with him performing it really, provided he says it was originally by teller, but making money off somebody elses work, especially something so beautiful, especially without paying any royalty, is just wrong. Never mind that ruining a magic trick by giving away the answer is just plain wrong as well | |
| Pages 1 2 3 NEXT | |
Teller Sues Over "Stolen" Magic Trick
Silent magician Teller wants a rival to stop using "Shadows."
Performed by Teller, the smaller, quieter half of the magical duo Penn and Teller, the "Shadows" illusion [which is playing below for the benefit of those of you who haven't seen it] is pretty impressive stuff. Teller uses a knife to cut stems and petals off the shadow of a rose projected onto a screen; as he does, pieces of the "real" flower fall to the floor.
In the clip, his partner Penn declares that nobody knows how the trick is done and nobody will ever figure it out, but as it turns out, someone did. Dutch magician Gerard Bakardy saw Teller perform the trick in Vegas and developed his own version, and then, in what I believe is a pretty clear violation of the Magicians' Code, began selling an instructional kit, complete with fake rose and performance DVD, for $3000. That's right, three grand to spoil the magic of an illusion.
Teller, predictably, was none too happy, and after using a DMCA takedown notice to force the removal of a promotional video, he contacted Bakarady and demanded that he stop using the trick. Teller even offered to buy Bakardy out, but they couldn't settle on a price. So now they're going to court.
The big, obvious question is whether or not it's possible to copyright a magic trick. The most obvious answer is no; magicians have been performing each other's tricks for years, after all, and I've never heard of anyone needing a license to stuff a woman into a box and then saw her in half. But if Teller's description of "Shadows" as a "dramatic work" holds water with the courts, the situation changes somewhat.
New York Law School Professor James Grimmelmann told Ars Technica that copyright law protects pantomimes and "choreographed works," so Teller's case could very well come down to how closely Bakardy's performance matches his own. Even so, Grimmelmann said, "Teller has an uphill fight on his hands."
Permalink