Notch Dumps on EA "Indie Bundle"

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matrix3509:

Grey Day for Elcia:

Gaming is fine. EA is fine. Get over it.

I'd just like to point out right now how perfectly the industry right now mirrors the way it was in 1983.

1.) The major players in the industry (i.e. Atari) were filthy rich and looked unbeatable.
2.) Publishers grew ever more draconian and tyrannical by the day, simply because they could.
3.) The developers that worked for said publishers got fed up with all of the bullshit they were forced to put up with and started striking out on their own. Then...
4.) Games released that ended up being extremely high profile disasters.

History tends to repeat itself. Especially when the people in power are too busy waving their anus around in the air. I personally cannot wait till this shitty industry burns. Meanwhile the true indie developers will keep plugging away at their games like they have always done. Then we can get back to the business of making games instead of monetizing the consumer.

Oh fluff. Get down off your high-horse. Games are being made, lots of people like them, they are selling. Don't like it? Don't buy them.

Is business new to people, or something? Breaking news: businesses stay in business by offering what people want to buy.

Oh woe is us, the gamers, we only have countless indie titles and a massive AAA industry to supply our demand. What ever will we do.

Don't make me laugh.

I don't think EA is actively destroying gaming - that's just the result of their actions. I think if they were *trying* to destroy gaming, they'd fail like they do at everything else. As a side effect though, they're quite good at it.

Hornet0404:
Hang on a minute.

Wasn't this exactly what Extra Credits said EA should do? Make an Indie arm to take care of "innovative" and "new" games while EA proper makes AAA games?

And in that case what would you rather have?

That EA dies or EA may begin to make interesting games?

I'd rather EA dies.

Near every game series I loved, particularly Command and Conquer, was bought by them and ruined. I want to see EA bankrupt so their intellectual properties and copy right can fall into hands that won't abuse them and actually care for them.

Wait a minute: I remember buying Shank in "Humble Indie Bundle". And now I hear it was originally released by EA? MY ENTIRE LIFE IS A LIE!

matrix3509:

Grey Day for Elcia:

Gaming is fine. EA is fine. Get over it.

I'd just like to point out right now how perfectly the industry right now mirrors the way it was in 1983.

1.) The major players in the industry (i.e. Atari) were filthy rich and looked unbeatable.
2.) Publishers grew ever more draconian and tyrannical by the day, simply because they could.
3.) The developers that worked for said publishers got fed up with all of the bullshit they were forced to put up with and started striking out on their own. Then...
4.) Games released that ended up being extremely high profile disasters.

History tends to repeat itself. Especially when the people in power are too busy waving their anus around in the air. I personally cannot wait till this shitty industry burns. Meanwhile the true indie developers will keep plugging away at their games like they have always done. Then we can get back to the business of making games instead of monetizing the consumer.

You use the word 'business', but I do not think it means what you think it means. You seem to have some sort of romantic ideal, where people make games to spread art and don't care about things like profit. The business of making games is about the money. Yes, even the "true indie developers," the only difference is that they make the game they want to make, and hope that enough people like it that they make enough money to make another one.

EA are not moustache-twirling villains tying the games industry to train tracks, and independent developers are not the daring hero who swoops in to save the day. In the end, they're just different shades of the same color.

matrix3509:

I'd just like to point out right now how perfectly the industry right now mirrors the way it was in 1983.

1.) The major players in the industry (i.e. Atari) were filthy rich and looked unbeatable.
2.) Publishers grew ever more draconian and tyrannical by the day, simply because they could.
3.) The developers that worked for said publishers got fed up with all of the bullshit they were forced to put up with and started striking out on their own. Then...
4.) Games released that ended up being extremely high profile disasters.

History tends to repeat itself. Especially when the people in power are too busy waving their anus around in the air. I personally cannot wait till this shitty industry burns. Meanwhile the true indie developers will keep plugging away at their games like they have always done. Then we can get back to the business of making games instead of monetizing the consumer.

From Wikipedia

So we had 11+ consoles to choose between that were priced between $200-$500 ($460.63-$1,151.57 when adjusted for inflation) (That was the price then), advertising stating that people need computers instead of video-games, loss of publisher control (yeah, didn't saw that coming either). Also, the crash only affected North America, no where else.

Grey Day for Elcia:
Don't like it? Don't buy them.

I don't.

Grey Day for Elcia:

Is business new to people, or something? Breaking news: businesses stay in business by offering what people want to buy.

Yes because "Its business" is the catch-all excuse for people defending publisher extortion of developers and milking of consumers. Try again, this time with more logic and less Laissez-faire fallacy.

Grey Day for Elcia:

Oh woe is us, the gamers, we only have countless indie titles and a massive AAA industry to supply our demand. What ever will we do.

Don't make me laugh.

I'm certainly not demanding the same games every year, which is what we are getting. Look around and open your fucking eyes. The level of ambivalence between the publishers/the media wing of the publishers: the game journalists and the developers/consumers has never been higher than it is right now, and its only going to grow.

Buretsu:

matrix3509:

Grey Day for Elcia:

Gaming is fine. EA is fine. Get over it.

I'd just like to point out right now how perfectly the industry right now mirrors the way it was in 1983.

1.) The major players in the industry (i.e. Atari) were filthy rich and looked unbeatable.
2.) Publishers grew ever more draconian and tyrannical by the day, simply because they could.
3.) The developers that worked for said publishers got fed up with all of the bullshit they were forced to put up with and started striking out on their own. Then...
4.) Games released that ended up being extremely high profile disasters.

History tends to repeat itself. Especially when the people in power are too busy waving their anus around in the air. I personally cannot wait till this shitty industry burns. Meanwhile the true indie developers will keep plugging away at their games like they have always done. Then we can get back to the business of making games instead of monetizing the consumer.

You use the word 'business', but I do not think it means what you think it means. You seem to have some sort of romantic ideal, where people make games to spread art and don't care about things like profit. The business of making games is about the money. Yes, even the "true indie developers," the only difference is that they make the game they want to make, and hope that enough people like it that they make enough money to make another one.

EA are not moustache-twirling villains tying the games industry to train tracks, and independent developers are not the daring hero who swoops in to save the day. In the end, they're just different shades of the same color.

You seem to be confusing "making money" and "extorting developers and milking consumers". I could see how you might confuse the two, they sound a lot alike.

Buretsu:
Ahh, lovely, another case of double standards.

Indie Bundle from Valve? Perfectly good!
Indie Bundle from EA? ABSOLUTELY EVIL!!

Ummm.... when did Valve release an indy bundle? If you want to get technical Orange Box was (most of the games came from mods made for other Valve games or from indy studios that Valve bought the ideas from) but I've never seen them say indy. They do sell some bundles on steam, but that's a store, not a publisher.

Also, I love how Notch loved EA a few weeks back over Origin, now he hates them for calling a bundle indy.

Plus it's available on Steam, EA hates Steam.

Can the irony get better than this?

matrix3509:

Grey Day for Elcia:
Don't like it? Don't buy them.

I don't.

Grey Day for Elcia:

Is business new to people, or something? Breaking news: businesses stay in business by offering what people want to buy.

Yes because "Its business" is the catch-all excuse for people defending publisher extortion of developers and milking of consumers. Try again, this time with more logic and less Laissez-faire fallacy.

Grey Day for Elcia:

Oh woe is us, the gamers, we only have countless indie titles and a massive AAA industry to supply our demand. What ever will we do.

Don't make me laugh.

I'm certainly not demanding the same games every year, which is what we are getting. Look around and open your fucking eyes. The level of ambivalence between the publishers/the media wing of the publishers: the game journalists and the developers/consumers has never been higher than it is right now, and its only going to grow.

Who are you? You're one consumer. You don't dictate the market. You can complain all you want about 'the same games every year', but the simple fact of the matter is people want to play them. And because of that, they make money. Because, you know what? It's business. It's about making money, and if money can be made this way, it will be. And what's evil about that?

You seem to be confusing "making money" and "extorting developers and milking consumers". I could see how you might confuse the two, they sound a lot alike.

No, from what you say, it would seem that it is YOU who is confused.

Buretsu:

matrix3509:

Grey Day for Elcia:
Don't like it? Don't buy them.

I don't.

Grey Day for Elcia:

Is business new to people, or something? Breaking news: businesses stay in business by offering what people want to buy.

Yes because "Its business" is the catch-all excuse for people defending publisher extortion of developers and milking of consumers. Try again, this time with more logic and less Laissez-faire fallacy.

Grey Day for Elcia:

Oh woe is us, the gamers, we only have countless indie titles and a massive AAA industry to supply our demand. What ever will we do.

Don't make me laugh.

I'm certainly not demanding the same games every year, which is what we are getting. Look around and open your fucking eyes. The level of ambivalence between the publishers/the media wing of the publishers: the game journalists and the developers/consumers has never been higher than it is right now, and its only going to grow.

Who are you? You're one consumer. You don't dictate the market. You can complain all you want about 'the same games every year', but the simple fact of the matter is people want to play them. And because of that, they make money. Because, you know what? It's business. It's about making money, and if money can be made this way, it will be. And what's evil about that?

You seem to be confusing "making money" and "extorting developers and milking consumers". I could see how you might confuse the two, they sound a lot alike.

No, from what you say, it would seem that it is YOU who is confused.

Its funny how people only support this Laissez-faire fallacy when it supports something they like. Cause making money excuses everything. Except when its something you don't like.

matrix3509:

Buretsu:

matrix3509:

I don't.

Yes because "Its business" is the catch-all excuse for people defending publisher extortion of developers and milking of consumers. Try again, this time with more logic and less Laissez-faire fallacy.

I'm certainly not demanding the same games every year, which is what we are getting. Look around and open your fucking eyes. The level of ambivalence between the publishers/the media wing of the publishers: the game journalists and the developers/consumers has never been higher than it is right now, and its only going to grow.

Who are you? You're one consumer. You don't dictate the market. You can complain all you want about 'the same games every year', but the simple fact of the matter is people want to play them. And because of that, they make money. Because, you know what? It's business. It's about making money, and if money can be made this way, it will be. And what's evil about that?

You seem to be confusing "making money" and "extorting developers and milking consumers". I could see how you might confuse the two, they sound a lot alike.

No, from what you say, it would seem that it is YOU who is confused.

Its funny how people only support this Laissez-faire fallacy when it supports something they like. Cause making money excuses everything. Except when its something you don't like.

It's funny how people treat "make the games people want to play" as bad business that's destroying the industry. Because making money is evil. Except when an indie developer does it.

You want to talk bad business? Let's talk about companies demonizing used game sales as an excuse to justify charging $60 for a game right up to the point where they release the next major iteration of it. Let's talk about low-value, high-cost DLC, including DLC that comes complete on the disk, but which you have to pay to unlock. Let's talk about how piracy is helping destroy the industry, even if it's only by existing for the industry to use as an excuse.

Let's talk about the ACTUAL issues with the gaming industry, of which "mainstream popularity" isn't one.

All the titles were created by indie developers, EA is simply bringing them to the masses, I fail to see how this is a bad thing.

Contradiction:

Madkipz:
Speaking as the producer of Minecraft, Notch has a lot more authority than some lowly escapist journalist. His tweets ring true and loudly. I hope EA burns for abusing the title of indie.

The fact that your post was more in the defence of notch rather than affirmation of his comment just goes to show how many people here are ridding Notch's bandwagon (in lieu of Notch himself). Where does that authority come from? Because he independently made a video game?
The main positive of indi is that it allows CREATIVITY and FREEDOM! It's supposed to stop the medium from stagnation as it allows devs not to worry about targets and risk because its a solo run thing.
How was Notch contributed to this AT ALL?
He made a derivative game at the right time. There was no new idea or creativity involved. He quite clearly, and shamelessly I might add, stole from infiniminer (with some help from dwarf fortress).
Let me leave you with a thought... I'm not a chef. Does that mean that I shouldn't have a preference in food? Have I not earnt the right or authority to voice my opinion in food?
Grow up.

Except the tv chef with a food show or awards for his cooking has more authority in his words than everyday joe will ever have. His opinion therefore reaches more people, reaches farther up and down the lines of media and you can either throw yours in or gtfo the avalance of "My thoughts exactly how true."

The world is not ruled by the silent majority. It never is.

Im not sure the difference between this and when steam does and indie sale. Is it just because it's EA?

Grey Day for Elcia:

Madkipz:
Speaking as the producer of Minecraft, Notch has a lot more authority than some lowly escapist journalist. His tweets ring true and loudly. I hope EA burns for abusing the title of indie.

Lowly Escapist journalist? You mean the people that make this site--the one you are enjoying right now--what it is? I'm fairly certain anyone who spends their life researching, reporting on and playing video games, has as much authority to comment on it as anyone.

Maybe you should think a little more about your words before you put them out there.

You mean the sheeple that gave me3 and dragon age 2 a 10/10? They have next to no credibility with me after that. There are already a million other sites and "game journalists" and "industry apologists" in existence. They are practically like lice in the woodwork. Easy to replace. Yahtzee not so much, everyone else however <,<

funksobeefy:
Im not sure the difference between this and when steam does and indie sale. Is it just because it's EA?

Pretty much.

The same games are offered on Steam, therefore published by Valve. They are also labeled as Indie.

Andy Chalk:

I think that's a bit harsh. Yes, indies are doing wonderful things, but I don't see how major publishers like EA are doing anything more than bringing gaming to the masses.

At the same time, they are alienating those same masses with the most horrible business practices, they keep reaching for new markets, while continuously making their customers feel dissatisfied and sometimes even sick of gaming.

Madkipz:
You mean the sheeple that gave me3 and dragon age 2 a 10/10? They have next to no credibility with me after that. There are already a million other sites and "game journalists" and "industry apologists" in existence. They are practically like lice in the woodwork. Easy to replace. Yahtzee not so much, everyone else however <,<

Yet you're still here.

Madkipz:

Grey Day for Elcia:

Madkipz:
Speaking as the producer of Minecraft, Notch has a lot more authority than some lowly escapist journalist. His tweets ring true and loudly. I hope EA burns for abusing the title of indie.

Lowly Escapist journalist? You mean the people that make this site--the one you are enjoying right now--what it is? I'm fairly certain anyone who spends their life researching, reporting on and playing video games, has as much authority to comment on it as anyone.

Maybe you should think a little more about your words before you put them out there.

You mean the sheeple that gave me3 and dragon age 2 a 10/10? They have next to no credibility with me after that. There are already a million other sites and "game journalists" and "industry apologists" in existence. They are practically like lice in the woodwork. Easy to replace. Yahtzee not so much, everyone else however <,<

Sorry, I forgot that someone liking a game you dislike and reviewing it as such means they are mindless sheep. My bad.

boag:
At the same time, they are alienating those same masses with the most horrible business practices, they keep reaching for new markets, while continuously making their customers feel dissatisfied and sometimes even sick of gaming.

I would disagree. The vocal, "alienated" gamers who make noise on forums represent a minority of EA's consumer base, probably a fairly small minority. Which isn't to say that I don't think people should make their opinions known in public forums (ideally in a constructive, non-abusive manner) but to suggest that we represent some kind of angry majority is a stretch.

Andy Chalk:

boag:
At the same time, they are alienating those same masses with the most horrible business practices, they keep reaching for new markets, while continuously making their customers feel dissatisfied and sometimes even sick of gaming.

I would disagree. The vocal, "alienated" gamers who make noise on forums represent a minority of EA's consumer base, probably a fairly small minority. Which isn't to say that I don't think people should make their opinions known in public forums (ideally in a constructive, non-abusive manner) but to suggest that we represent some kind of angry majority is a stretch.

youre right, saying that I represent some super majority is incredibly lame, at the same time we cant be certain about how big the amount of people are upset about this is, because internet polls can be rigged, and the forum dissatisfaction can be fabricated.

its obviously just a small bunch of entitled whiny homophobic brats, that have taken their time to not only create an uproar everywhere, but also to artificially drive down EAs stock price.

http://www.google.com/finance?cid=168725

http://www.benzinga.com/news/earnings/12/02/2309657/electronic-arts-falls-1-after-reporting-quarterly-loss

http://gamerinvestments.com/video-game-stocks/index.php/2012/02/01/ea-reports-205m-net-loss-for-q3-ended-12-31-11/

matrix3509:
Yes because "Its business" is the catch-all excuse for people defending publisher extortion of developers and milking of consumers. Try again, this time with more logic and less Laissez-faire fallacy.

Milking the consumer? You mean offering video games for purchase? No one forced people to buy EA games and it was us, the consumers, who chose to purchase their games in record amounts.

Get of your pedestal. Stop thinking you know what the market should and shouldn't be like and let people buy whatever the fuck they want. They aren't bad people for liking EA. EA isn't bad for selling games a lot of people like. Indie games are doing better than ever. The sky isn't falling.

People, for the love of god, wake up and listen to yourselves. EA is offering a product. That's it. If people wanna buy them, that's their choice. You aren't special and you don't get to suddenly tell us the games and franchisees we like are now the devil.

"Boo-hoo. EA is selling video games I don't like." This just in: Lots of people do like them and that's perfectly fine. Get over yourself.

The level of self-entitlement and superiority complexes in this thread is just mind boggling. Apparently any company offering something you don't like means they are ruining gaming. It is seriously giving me a headache reading some of these posts. People actually think what they personally want should be what everyone gets. It's as if them disliking EA means EA is objectively bad or something. How does one even get that pigheaded?

Do people still think it's cool to go against the majority or something?

Nothing like easy scapegoating eh Notch?

I really don't see why EA has become the embodiment of everything that is wrong with the video game industry, sure the DRM and Origin are shaky platforms at best. but on the other hand they've financed TOR, they've helped out Funcom with The Secret World which is a risky project to say the least. Heck, they've also financed Mirror's Edge and any Double Fine game, so they dare to take creative risks, as opposed to say, Activision who does nothing but Call of Duty and other games that are almost guaranteed to sell like Marvel tie-in titles.

So to me it seems a bit of a cheap and uncalled for shot to say that EA is actively destroying the games industry, intentionally or otherwise when there's worse offenders in the industry.

(And I can't even blame Activision, they're running a business, of course they won't change their strategy as long as people buy their games in droves and bring in the money)

boag:

Andy Chalk:

boag:
At the same time, they are alienating those same masses with the most horrible business practices, they keep reaching for new markets, while continuously making their customers feel dissatisfied and sometimes even sick of gaming.

I would disagree. The vocal, "alienated" gamers who make noise on forums represent a minority of EA's consumer base, probably a fairly small minority. Which isn't to say that I don't think people should make their opinions known in public forums (ideally in a constructive, non-abusive manner) but to suggest that we represent some kind of angry majority is a stretch.

youre right, saying that I represent some super majority is incredibly lame, at the same time we cant be certain about how big the amount of people are upset about this is, because internet polls can be rigged, and the forum dissatisfaction can be fabricated.

its obviously just a small bunch of entitled whiny homophobic brats, that have taken their time to not only create an uproar everywhere, but also to artificially drive down EAs stock price.

http://www.google.com/finance?cid=168725

http://www.benzinga.com/news/earnings/12/02/2309657/electronic-arts-falls-1-after-reporting-quarterly-loss

http://gamerinvestments.com/video-game-stocks/index.php/2012/02/01/ea-reports-205m-net-loss-for-q3-ended-12-31-11/

Because polls are never biased towards the extreme, and small forum populations represent the majority.

Also, the stock price of video games is based on public disapproval of policies and not problems with the economy causing a decrease in the value of luxury products like video games.

Madkipz:

Grey Day for Elcia:

Madkipz:
Speaking as the producer of Minecraft, Notch has a lot more authority than some lowly escapist journalist. His tweets ring true and loudly. I hope EA burns for abusing the title of indie.

Lowly Escapist journalist? You mean the people that make this site--the one you are enjoying right now--what it is? I'm fairly certain anyone who spends their life researching, reporting on and playing video games, has as much authority to comment on it as anyone.

Maybe you should think a little more about your words before you put them out there.

You mean the sheeple that gave me3 and dragon age 2 a 10/10? They have next to no credibility with me after that. There are already a million other sites and "game journalists" and "industry apologists" in existence. They are practically like lice in the woodwork. Easy to replace. Yahtzee not so much, everyone else however <,<

Eh she used the word "sheeple". Just ignore her everyone, cause those are just people that latch onto buzz words and attack everything mainstream the same as the people that latch onto everything that is mainstream. It's like a reverse frat-boy or something.

Buretsu:

boag:

Andy Chalk:

I would disagree. The vocal, "alienated" gamers who make noise on forums represent a minority of EA's consumer base, probably a fairly small minority. Which isn't to say that I don't think people should make their opinions known in public forums (ideally in a constructive, non-abusive manner) but to suggest that we represent some kind of angry majority is a stretch.

youre right, saying that I represent some super majority is incredibly lame, at the same time we cant be certain about how big the amount of people are upset about this is, because internet polls can be rigged, and the forum dissatisfaction can be fabricated.

its obviously just a small bunch of entitled whiny homophobic brats, that have taken their time to not only create an uproar everywhere, but also to artificially drive down EAs stock price.

http://www.google.com/finance?cid=168725

http://www.benzinga.com/news/earnings/12/02/2309657/electronic-arts-falls-1-after-reporting-quarterly-loss

http://gamerinvestments.com/video-game-stocks/index.php/2012/02/01/ea-reports-205m-net-loss-for-q3-ended-12-31-11/

Because polls are never biased towards the extreme, and small forum populations represent the majority.

Also, the stock price of video games is based on public disapproval of policies and not problems with the economy causing a decrease in the value of luxury products like video games.

like I said, its just a small bunch of whiny entitled homophobic brats, anyone that disliked any of EAs games, is a whiny entitled homophobic brats, thats what EA said, thats what Bioware said, thats what 75 PERFECT SCORES said.

Pedro The Hutt:

I really don't see why EA has become the embodiment of everything that is wrong with the video game industry,

EA has poured a lot of Hard work, blood, sweat, tears and overall Practice to get the public standing they have today.

VonKlaw:
With the only problem being that EA are "bringing games to the masses" by draining developers of smaller games until they're no good to them anymore, and then ditching their lifeless husk like some form of money vampire.

They did it with Bullfrog, they did it with C&C, and they're doing it with Bioware.

Don't forget pandemic. I loved that studio.

doomspore98:
Don't forget pandemic. I loved that studio.

Has anyone looked at Pandemic's track history after the buyout?

I'm starting to like Notch more and more. Especially when he hates on EA, which I also like to hate on.

boag:
like I said, its just a small bunch of whiny entitled homophobic brats, anyone that disliked any of EAs games, is a whiny entitled homophobic brats, thats what EA said, thats what Bioware said, thats what 75 PERFECT SCORES said.

EA and Bioware never said that, people who hate EA and Bioware said that they said that.

And, somehow, all of the 10/10 scores from people who liked and enjoyed a game have SO much less integrity than 0/10 scores from people who hated it...

Since when does a tweet warrant a news? It's generally known that Notch uses his twitter account a bit irresponsibly and that we shouldn't pay too much attention to that. Sometimes he forgets that he's rather famous now.
Of course news sites like the Escapist love to jump to these things and blow them completely out of proportion for the views, successfully.

OT:
It's not really a surprise that EA would do this. If there's money to make, of course they're going to try. It's nothing new that they like to slap a label on to a game in order to make it sell better. They use mostly the names of popular devs, like Bioware for example. There isn't only one Bioware studio but the name is often enough for a game to sell well.

Beryl77:
Since when does a tweet warrant a news?

It's news, in the same way that things a president whispers to someone else when they don't think the mic is on is news.

He writes "EA sucks" on his Twitter and then adds that he got into trouble with the "interwebs"? Did his Twitter account get hijacked by a 15-year old something?

Really though, there is nothing wrong with EA releasing the indie bundle. It's just Notch thinking that somehow his opinions on matters are more important just because he happened to become successful and his new hourly wage is twice that of all indie developers on this planet.

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