Blizzard Cleans Up GAME's Mess

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AC10:

Excludos:
Lol at the people saying "blizzard single handedly killed lan parties!", which is ironic seeing as lan parties usually doesn't have any internet connection..(*sarcasm*)

Have you tried playing an online game with 15ish people on a home connection? In BF2 we had around 900 pings each. In League of Legends (just a 5v5) we could barely even move. The connection was simply overloaded.

Excludos:
Sitting in the same room with the guys you're playing with is always better, and it really doesn't matter if you're connected to the internet or not in the process.

Well, it does matter with D3 if you're connected to the internet or not. If you were thinking of playing D3 with people in the same room, you need to be connected to the internet.

My post went right over your head.
1. EA isn't Blizzard. Blizzard has nothing whatsoever to do with origin and Battlefield. You can not fault Blizzard for "single handedly killing lan" by bringing up multiplayer games they have nothing to do with.
2. You'll be having a good time playing togheter whetever or not the game requires you to be connected to the internet, because you'll be connected to the internet anyways.
3. 15 people on lan on a home network is stupidity to begin with. I have no idea why you would even attempt that, or what house you live in where thats even physically possible. Even lan will be tough, seeing as most regular routers don't even have the ability to connect that many computers to it at once. This certainly wasn't possible before battle.net 2-0 either.

Okay, Blizzard have gone up in my estimation. I genuinely would never have expected one of the big corps to do something like this.

Excludos:

AC10:

Excludos:
Lol at the people saying "blizzard single handedly killed lan parties!", which is ironic seeing as lan parties usually doesn't have any internet connection..(*sarcasm*)

Have you tried playing an online game with 15ish people on a home connection? In BF2 we had around 900 pings each. In League of Legends (just a 5v5) we could barely even move. The connection was simply overloaded.

Excludos:
Sitting in the same room with the guys you're playing with is always better, and it really doesn't matter if you're connected to the internet or not in the process.

Well, it does matter with D3 if you're connected to the internet or not. If you were thinking of playing D3 with people in the same room, you need to be connected to the internet.

My post went right over your head.
1. EA isn't Blizzard. Blizzard has nothing whatsoever to do with origin and Battlefield. You can not fault Blizzard for "single handedly killing lan" by bringing up multiplayer games they have nothing to do with.
2. You'll be having a good time playing togheter whetever or not the game requires you to be connected to the internet, because you'll be connected to the internet anyways.
3. 15 people on lan on a home network is stupidity to begin with. I have no idea why you would even attempt that, or what house you live in where thats even physically possible. Even lan will be tough, seeing as most regular routers don't even have the ability to connect that many computers to it at once. This certainly wasn't possible before battle.net 2-0 either.

We have a 30 port 1000 gigabit industrial switch we use for LAN parties. We then have to do a lot of jury-rigging with static IPs. We tend to do LANs at someone's house who is relatively well off. Our biggest one had 29 people in the house.

I agree the router was likely the limiting factor; but back in the day there was no need to even include the router in the equation as every game had a local LAN option. The advent of NEEDING to be online to play the game in a LAN is a relatively new development.

The very nature of requiring an internet connection for most games has, in essence, stopped us from playing any new games at LANs as the home connection can't support that many players.

My extensive experience in the D3 closed beta didn't leave a good impression of Blizzard's capabilities either. I had massive lag problems even when playing alone. Nothing like huge lag spikes as the drop calculation server needs to queue up your request when you kill a monster.

So the evil overlord is walking around the city giving candy to orphans...

Blizzard gains +50 reputation.

Blizzard earns points for this, a very nice gesture from them. :) shows why they and Valve are some of the nicest companies in gaming.

I do love Blizzard's customer service. That's a very nice department they have. And well, in all the problems I've had with WoW, they've never once failed to fix them.

I don't really see the problem with the DRM. I'm probably just gonna get criticized for saying this from my ivory internet tower, but in this day in age, if you do not at least have a semi-stable internet connection, I think you're the minority. After all, you have enough internet to browse and post on a forum about video games.

And well, launch days are always a mess, no matter what game you're on. Can't really fault Blizzard for that one.

DVS BSTrD:
Because Blizzard does stuff like this?

That and the fact that They at least implements DRM competently?

But its also directly blizzards fault that GAME is in this mess. Both Blizzard and GAME are equally responsible for GAME not being able to fulfil its preorders of Diablo 3. The only reason GAME cant honour its preorders anymore is because blizzard refuses to ship to them.

tony2077:

Keslen:
Now if only they'd fix that issue where your single player game crashes if your internet connection dies.

you want them to fix your crappy connection?

ZING!

OT: This is pretty good of them. Of course it's just good business practice. But it's still nice to see, especially because they weren't obligated to do anything.

Hammeroj:
This is nothing, and has nothing to do with how they make their games.

Who said it did?

Now all I have to do is invent time travel and preorder via Australia. This is gonna take a while...

Lunar Templar:
sweet, not even off the first page and the blizz hate is in fully effect.

anyway, good move on they're part, regardless the reason behind it

I was kind of expecting it in the first reply.

I'll admit they dropped the ball by not just having unranked singleplayer like Dungeon Defenders has, but otherwise the game worked flawless for me when I played it before work.

Likewise I haven't ever been kicked out of any game while playing because of its DRM.

Equally the DRM has never stopped any game I've ever wanted to play from being on a torrent site in a flash.

DRM doesn't stop me, making a good game and not being a prick is what stops me from pirating.

That and frankly I'm too disinterested in games to make the effort to torrent things anymore. I'm just glad steam and battle.net are as simple as they are, if there was a single extra step I think I'd be fully done with gaming and on the book train full time.

But I'm digressing hardcore from the original point.

Shame they didn't just put in unranked singleplayer that cannot in any way transfer to online.

Eric the Orange:

Hammeroj:
This is nothing, and has nothing to do with how they make their games.

Who said it did?

A lot of people are taking this opportunity to take out the Blizzard pleasuring gear and I'm seeing quite a few references to DRM already. I'm saying I don't perceive them as a better game development company because of this, and neither should anyone else. Mostly because on top of being irrelevant to their actual games, this is something that really only costs them a negligible amount of cash no matter which way you slice it.

I won't say it's a cheap marketing trick by them, this is genuinely being a good business, but that's as far as it goes. I guess the fact that people use this stuff, that's completely irrelevant to their games, as PR to outweigh the shit they actually do with their games, is what rubs me the wrong way here.

John Funk:

eventhorizon525:

John Funk:

The RMAH from the beginning has been the thing I have the *least* problems with. D2 had RMT out the yin-yang on shady third party sites, and Blizzard couldn't really do much to stop it.

So, they did the sensible thing and cut out the third party black market directly. It was going to happen anyway, why not make it legitimate?

Guess I just find effectively pay-to-win options disappointing to say the least, since it basically cuts out the feeling of achievement you get from finding/unlocking everything on your own. And while yes people like me don't have to use the money shop, it will effect us none the less, and make the trading scene more frustrating. If you can tie real money value to an item (legitimately), people are going to more often compare items based on those prices, and there is going to be less wiggle room than the more barter or alternative currency method originally employed.

However I can't argue that this isn't the best choice to do from Blizzard's perspective, it does reenforce some (imo) unfortunate trends in gaming.

captcha: easy as cake; well yes, I do think people being able to buy the best items ruins the fun of the game.

The "pay to win" was in Diablo 2, too. It just wasn't official. This is changing nothing except making it safer and funneling money into the community.

Exactly Mr Funk. It was not official and supported by Blizzard and the cheaters took many risks from there account being hacked, to there identity stolen, to the most common in paying for something and never getting it. This was a good thing IMO as it gave ample risk to the cheaters in D2 and severely hurt some I'm sure.
Blizzard honestly should have gone the route of making trading money for items an even more severe punishment. (maybe ban that person's entire IP in addition to here CD key if caught)

Sadly the auction house is not even the biggest cock slap in the face Blizzard has done. Dumbing down the game via the removal of stat customization and limiting the amount of skills we can use is my biggest issue with the game.

Considering how badly the servers are holding up, this is some much needed nice news.

tony2077:

Keslen:
Now if only they'd fix that issue where your single player game crashes if your internet connection dies.

you want them to fix your crappy connection?

Virgillio Armarndio's voice: "OOOHHHH YOU PEASANTS DON'T HAVE THE APPROPRIATE CONNECTION TO ENJOY A GAME LIKE THIS... CRY MORE WHILE I AM PLAYING THIS WONDERFUL GAME ON MY PERFECT INTERNET CONNECTION!"

You are now aware that many countries still have a crappy infrastructure and some ISPs still turn off their internet service for a few minutes every day.

inb4 "games are a luxury, etc"

ElPatron:

tony2077:

Keslen:
Now if only they'd fix that issue where your single player game crashes if your internet connection dies.

you want them to fix your crappy connection?

Virgillio Armarndio's voice: "OOOHHHH YOU PEASANTS DON'T HAVE THE APPROPRIATE CONNECTION TO ENJOY A GAME LIKE THIS... CRY MORE WHILE I AM PLAYING THIS WONDERFUL GAME ON MY PERFECT INTERNET CONNECTION!"

You are now aware that many countries still have a crappy infrastructure and some ISPs still turn off their internet service for a few minutes every day.

inb4 "games are a luxury, etc"

there not a luxury if there not then what are they

tony2077:
there not a luxury if there not then what are they

So are you saying that because people don't live in country X or Y they shouldn't enjoy a game?

If you aren't, address the issue in another way because the contrast between my post and yours really makes it look like it.

I preordered the Diablo 3 Collectors Edition from Australian Game and it was delivered to me at around 9am on the 15th, guess I was lucky?

ElPatron:

tony2077:
there not a luxury if there not then what are they

So are you saying that because people don't live in country X or Y they shouldn't enjoy a game?

If you aren't, address the issue in another way because the contrast between my post and yours really makes it look like it.

I'm asking if there not a luxury then what are they?

tony2077:
I'm asking if there not a luxury then what are they?

And I am asking, "why does it matter to you?"

I obviously said inb4 "games are a luxury item" because it's not a proper argument. If someone is able to pay for Internet connection and the game, then they are allowed to enjoy the game independently of their circumstances.

What do you have to earn in making generalizations about internet connections (because they are far from perfect in some countries)?

And I say this as someone who has a very reliable fiber connection. I am still against totalitarian DRM that makes a luxury item unobtainable for people who can afford it - which kinda goes against the whole concept of "luxury".

ElPatron:

tony2077:
I'm asking if there not a luxury then what are they?

And I am asking, "why does it matter to you?"

I obviously said inb4 "games are a luxury item" because it's not a proper argument. If someone is able to pay for Internet connection and the game, then they are allowed to enjoy the game independently of their circumstances.

What do you have to earn in making generalizations about internet connections (because they are far from perfect in some countries)?

And I say this as someone who has a very reliable fiber connection. I am still against totalitarian DRM that makes a luxury item unobtainable for people who can afford it - which kinda goes against the whole concept of "luxury".

ask a simple question and you go on a rant guess i know what your berserker button is

tony2077:
ask a simple question and you go on a rant guess i know what your berserker button is

The question had nothing to do with the argument at all.

ElPatron:

tony2077:
ask a simple question and you go on a rant guess i know what your berserker button is

The question had nothing to do with the argument at all.

so i was just asking since i gave my two cents about this

captcha sod's law i have no idea what that is

Bat Vader:
He wants them to fix their totalitarian DRM. Blizzard does understand that LANs exist, right? I mean Starcraft II basically single-handedly killed the LAN party, not to mention the ramifications it had on the tournament scene. Diablo 3 is doing the same. Why does Ubisoft get grated for this but Blizzard gets away with it?

how is being online to play this game so evil[/quote]Not everyone has a great internet connection and people should not be punished because of it. The same exact thing happened when Assassins Creed 2 was released. People had to be connected to the internet to play the game. I believe AC2 was patched later on though so people could play it without having to always be connected to the internet.

If someone wants to play the campaign by themselves by making their session private why should they still have to be connected to the internet? Hopefully Blizzard patches in an offline mode in the future.[/quote]

The difference being that AC2 had no justification for that DRM. Id say D3 does. To avoid abuse and things because of the auction houses and cracks/cheats etc with the trading system.

Ive always found this whole "not everyone has a great internet connection" thing to be a bit silly. Unless your living in the stone ages..youll have broadband, I dont know a single person that has dialup anymore, even my open-brethren friend got broadband...and hes not allowed a TV. On top of that, broadband is always on, and problems with it are generally far and few between. If they tried doing this 5-6 years ago, THEN that kind of argument would be perfectly fine, now though, I find it hard to agree. And if your internet is cutting out every day, or having the sort of problems that would genuinely cause problems with D3, thats more a problem with you and your ISP. A bad connection has no affect on your game(ie a slow one), a BROKEN connection, ie one that cuts out frequently, is not normal and should be fixed, thats not Blizzards fault.

Doom-Slayer:

Bat Vader:
snip

The difference being that AC2 had no justification for that DRM. Id say D3 does. To avoid abuse and things because of the auction houses and cracks/cheats etc with the trading system.

Ive always found this whole "not everyone has a great internet connection" thing to be a bit silly. Unless your living in the stone ages..youll have broadband, I dont know a single person that has dialup anymore, even my open-brethren friend got broadband...and hes not allowed a TV. On top of that, broadband is always on, and problems with it are generally far and few between. If they tried doing this 5-6 years ago, THEN that kind of argument would be perfectly fine, now though, I find it hard to agree. And if your internet is cutting out every day, or having the sort of problems that would genuinely cause problems with D3, thats more a problem with you and your ISP. A bad connection has no affect on your game(ie a slow one), a BROKEN connection, ie one that cuts out frequently, is not normal and should be fixed, thats not Blizzards fault.

Thing is, not everyone does have that reliable internet and there is always the issue of travel or LAN. I've had really good experiences with a LAN party that actually did take place while traveling (weird story, but was awesome none-the-less). Blizzard is pushing something that makes the most economic sense for them (ensuring that the RMAH is available for everyone increasing the chance someone might give in and drop even more money on a $60 game), but I personally don't want to see the gaming industry heading down that road where progress in a game can be assigned an easy real money value and sold to someone else.

So while there is a very logical reason for why Blizzard should have it always online (and yes there are more reasons than just the RMAH, but it is a major focus and I don't want to make an even bigger wall of text) but at least to people like me it only makes the lack of an offline single player mode even more frustrating.

closer to OT:
Also, apparently the servers have been going through hell during launch, and doing something like this is probably going to help them brush aside that issue.

eventhorizon525:

Thing is, not everyone does have that reliable internet and there is always the issue of travel or LAN.

I posted this in another thread but Ill restate my main point. A majority of people DO have reliable(ie broadband) internet. Over 50% of people (in the US at least, and yes I have sources) have broadband now, and if your broadband connection is terrible and cutting out, thats an isolated incident and needs to be sorted with your ISP, its not the "norm"

I have to agree, not having LAN does suck(bothered me with SC2) but you simply cant include it if your going online only. But overall..with how fast,cheap and widespread broadband is becoming now, this really isnt an issue to a majority of people. Yes some people will be stuck with dialup or having bad internet, but its a tiny proportion of the population, and compared to the advantages it will bring with cutting out cheaters etc, clearly its worth it to them.

TL:DR It sucks yes, but if you have bad internet, deal with it, your the minority.

Doom-Slayer:

I posted this in another thread but Ill restate my main point. A majority of people DO have reliable(ie broadband) internet. Over 50% of people (in the US at least, and yes I have sources) have broadband now, and if your broadband connection is terrible and cutting out, thats an isolated incident and needs to be sorted with your ISP, its not the "norm"

I have to agree, not having LAN does suck(bothered me with SC2) but you simply cant include it if your going online only. But overall..with how fast,cheap and widespread broadband is becoming now, this really isnt an issue to a majority of people. Yes some people will be stuck with dialup or having bad internet, but its a tiny proportion of the population, and compared to the advantages it will bring with cutting out cheaters etc, clearly its worth it to them.

TL:DR It sucks yes, but if you have bad internet, deal with it, your the minority.

First a disclaimer: My internet is fairly stable at my primary residences, though there are occasionally times this isn't the case (and often enough I do pay attention to whether a game is always online or not).

More to the point; simply because a group may not be the majority (and I would actually like to see the sources you have, curious to see the specific numbers) doesn't mean it shouldn't raise its concerns (rationally). Dismissing a group because "oh you guys are the minority" is not a good precedent. To be fair, your earlier posts weren't doing this, but the more recent ones were starting to stray toward an area that wouldn't do your position justice. There are people who don't have a strong enough standard internet connection, but also people whose home internet is good, but when traveling or away they don't have anything reliable meaning the always online factor still comes up as an issue.

Also I dispute that it is actually removing any of the would-be cheaters. Instead it is making the game directly support what they wanted to do, eg: buy items for real money. Only difference is the money now moves through Blizzard's hands. This is like a school seeing they have some problem with people buying essays online. Rather than do their best to block and stop this behavior, the school instead starts letting students sell essays to each other through the school. While obviously Diablo 3 isn't an educational institution, the point remains.

Jesus. Nice ne blizz.

Now I wish BioWare did this when the same thing happened with Mass Effect 3 in the UK... but alas BioWare do not seem as awesome as Blizzard.

eventhorizon525:
More to the point; simply because a group may not be the majority (and I would actually like to see the sources you have, curious to see the specific numbers) doesn't mean it shouldn't raise its concerns (rationally). Dismissing a group because "oh you guys are the minority" is not a good precedent. To be fair, your earlier posts weren't doing this, but the more recent ones were starting to stray toward an area that wouldn't do your position justice. There are people who don't have a strong enough standard internet connection, but also people whose home internet is good, but when traveling or away they don't have anything reliable meaning the always online factor still comes up as an issue.

http://www.websiteoptimization.com/bw/0703/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6741959/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/t/broadband-use-tops-dial-up-us-homes/

http://www.nasrecruitment.com/docs/white_papers/Internet_Usage_United_States.pdf

The main 3 I found, Ive seen more but those are just the ones I remembered.To be honest, I dont play the game, nor do I plan to. I have no idea whether or not their online only thing will be effective or not in whatever reasons they are doing it, but thats not really my point. My point and my main problem is a lot of peoples constant argument for this being that "but we dont have very good internet/most people have bad internet" etc etc.

Broadband last I checked was incredibly common, my grandmother has broadband. Its becoming so popular that I suspect within the next 5-10 years dialup will dissapear and close on every home will have always on internet access.

And no, disregarding a minority isn't exactly a great thing, but for them its simply practicality. A vast majority of their target audience has boradband, and they wanted a DRM system(for whatever reason), so this option had has no negative affect on a vast proportion of gamers, so they used it.

Also I dispute that it is actually removing any of the would-be cheaters. Instead it is making the game directly support what they wanted to do, eg: buy items for real money. Only difference is the money now moves through Blizzard's hands. This is like a school seeing they have some problem with people buying essays online. Rather than do their best to block and stop this behavior, the school instead starts letting students sell essays to each other through the school. While obviously Diablo 3 isn't an educational institution, the point remains.

Except the point of a school is to learn, so that you can actually be a useful member of society. The point of a game is to have fun, and that can be done in a huge number of ways. The reason they included the auction house is to avoid a black market/outside market, and make it safer for item buyers and sellers.

yes they do get a cut and clearly theres a huge moneymaking opportunity for them, but for the gamers it means you can easily sell of excess items, buy other items all without the risk of being ripped off. Or if you dont like it, ignore it completely, its simply an additional feature.

Ill agree that no the situation isnt perfect, but the problem isnt as big as people make it out to be. Give it a few years and msot games will be doing something similar, and this will be a non issue.

Das Boot:

But its also directly blizzards fault that GAME is in this mess. Both Blizzard and GAME are equally responsible for GAME not being able to fulfil its preorders of Diablo 3. The only reason GAME cant honour its preorders anymore is because blizzard refuses to ship to them.

So it's Blizzards fault that GAME can't afford the games?

Worgen:
I don't think blizz really cares about the boxed sales as much as getting as many people playing it as possible so they can possibly make more money from the auction thing, I get the feeling blizz is already looking at d3 as a free to play game.

Makes sense. Really the only free to play game that I played was BattlefieldP4F, yet I still spent about 20 on upgrades and gear, and I never do that usually. There's someting about a free to play game, makes me more understanding when I have to spend a couple of bucks on it. I mean, imagine if Blizz gave everyone who paid for the game their money back in auction credits then made the game free to play... I'm pretty sure they'd still make a killing and boost their respect level no end.

TheKasp:

Das Boot:

But its also directly blizzards fault that GAME is in this mess. Both Blizzard and GAME are equally responsible for GAME not being able to fulfil its preorders of Diablo 3. The only reason GAME cant honour its preorders anymore is because blizzard refuses to ship to them.

So it's Blizzards fault that GAME can't afford the games?

Who said that? Its not that GAME can't afford the game its that suppliers will not ship to GAME because there is a chance it might not be able to pay. They could have easily made a deal with game to ship them enough to cover the preorders and still made sure they got paid.

Das Boot:

TheKasp:

Das Boot:

But its also directly blizzards fault that GAME is in this mess. Both Blizzard and GAME are equally responsible for GAME not being able to fulfil its preorders of Diablo 3. The only reason GAME cant honour its preorders anymore is because blizzard refuses to ship to them.

So it's Blizzards fault that GAME can't afford the games?

Who said that? Its not that GAME can't afford the game its that suppliers will not ship to GAME because there is a chance it might not be able to pay. They could have easily made a deal with game to ship them enough to cover the preorders and still made sure they got paid.

GAME got its credit insurance revoked by many publishers. They used to have a deal like that in place, and now they don't because the company is bankrupt.

JEBWrench:

GAME got its credit insurance revoked by many publishers. They used to have a deal like that in place, and now they don't because the company is bankrupt.

They actually didnt go bankrupt they went into receivership. There is a difference between the two. There could still have secured a deal with GAME its just that Blizzard doesnt give a fuck. Hell they get far more goodwill by screwing over GAME and a lot of the people who preordered.

The real question now is who will clean up Blizzard's Mess?

I feel genuine empathy for the people who can't play D3, but I really really really REALLY want to see Blizzard fall on their face for this. Over and over and over again, until they chalk it up as a horrific error in judgment and never even consider doing it again.

Unless it's an MMO or a Multiplayer Mode, games should NEVER EVER require you to be logged into an online server to play. You're only delaying piracy and cheating. Mostly, though, you're punishing the little guy who gave you his money.

So hopefully we as a community have received the wake up call. When Ubisoft and Blizzard and EA come at you with their online server login requirements, we need to say "NO!", shove pie in their faces, and repeat the process until this horrifically offensive DRM dies in a pit.

Also, just because this is hilarious...

image

captcha = zero tolerance

Damn straight!

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