CliffyB: Epic Must "Drag" the Industry Into the Next Generation Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT | |
Quote of the night. As we all know, Graphics always make the game, that is why Kane and Lynch 2 is so much better than every game made before 2004. My hope one day is for games to ignore all creative visuals and instead wallow in the horrid uncanny valley that these kind of games most likely produce, Abandonment of imagination and colour in pursuit of the look of the real world which we rarely ever see having to live in it and all. Now at least Jim will have to spend less time convincing us that Cliffy B is not worth the time of day. | |
ok, I don't mean to be rude, given that he to some extent knows what he's doing given he does make good games (that nonetheless have some distinctly obnoxious elements and practices built in), but the more he says, the more I want to slap him. His wanting of more achievements just so he can force people to play his games longer, the 'justification' of placing dlc on disk, the insistence of multiplayer, the demanding of better graphics even when the current graphics level is crippling game budgets... its like he wants to take the worst and most infuriating aspects of the current consoles/games and make them ten times worse. | |
Umm.. yeah... it's been a long time coming. PC gamers have been waiting for years for a new generation of consoles, that way our second-hand assets aren't so horridly gimped.
Psssh, yeah, Epic should just go away, nevermind that their engine powers countless AAA titles like BioShock, Batman Arkham, Borderlands, Mass Effect, etc etc. Sarcasm aside, this is Epic's time. Seems like you don't realize it, but they have an unseen dominance over the gaming industry that is comparable to none. | |
I enjoy the look of oldschool games & believe that good graphics & faster rendering do not an awesome game make. Focus less on the look & more on the story & gameplay. Also with the industry as it is now, keeping the price down & making it lower should be prioritized. Right now the game I'm looking forward to the most is being made with RPGMaker, that's an 80s-90s game engine. | |
Unreal wasn't considered good? Well, that's a bit sad. That was basically my introduction to gaming, even though I was like 9 at the time. Still, I don't remember it being that bad. I loved every translator popup I got, like every step I took was a piece of a puzzle. | |
I agree. It's a similar problem to the one we're having with smart-phones. "No, I don't give a shit about voice-recognition. At least not until you can give me a phone who's battery doesn't die on me every time I have the temerity to so much as try and use it!" Damn near rendering Avatar in real time sounds mighty fine and all, but I really don't think that that is our main concern at the moment. Graphics are already mighty fine. Not perfect, but more than good enough. | |
You do realise that this is the escapist forums right? TBH I agree with him, an unreal engine 4 is almost overdue, as soon as MS gets on to announcing their next console I would hope that developers are making games with way more futuristic tech, because I do think that some of the games made in the U3 engine are beginning to look more than a little bit dated. I mean Gears 3 is still gorgeous and all, but I would love to see what they can do with the sort of tech from that samaritan video (cannae find it at the moment, but I figure most of you will know which one I mean) Oh and I gotta say, the hate that he is getting for this is kinda impressive, I usually expect it when there is an announcement of a new first person shooter that isn't made by valve, or if EA or Activision say anything, Im kinda surprised CliffyB has managed to reach the heady levels of hate you guys normally reserve for... well everyone else in the gaming world | |
Yes, I'm looking forward to Epic's next game, Fatal Frames of War, a multi-player co-op game involving a squad of macho-looking Japanese schoolgirls employing cover-based camera tactics against alien ghosts in a series of photorealistic brown and grey buildings with the best looking lighting bloom in the industry. | |
No pushing graphics further at a time when production cost mean a game needs to sell millions just to break is not good. But still the console market is in need of a shake up. What we need is for other areas of game development to catch up to graphics, but that is not going to happen if graphics keeps racing ahead.
I'm on it *grabs cricket bat* | |
Part of the issue is that huge portions of gamin costs ends up gettin thrown into advertisement. Best example ever of that? ToR had a massive budget and nearly half of said budget was marketin. That is wasteful spendin no matter how you look at it. Publishers seem to never be able to find a sweet spot when it comes to advertisin. They overspend on products that, frankly, don't stand a chance in hell (Homefront) or underspend on products that actually could have been great if there was some actual marketin for the game. Also, new hardware can, if used correctly, cut down on costs due to not havin to deal with all the really retarded workarounds that game devs have to contend with now in order to make a decent lookin game. | |
Will someone please punch this moron in the face for me? It's frustrating how stupid Cliffy B is. He lowers the IQ of everyone who's in the same time zone with him. No we don't want it. What we want is better gameplay and better writing. And no more Hollywood bullshit and hand holding. No more $100 million advertisement campaigns. Money that could have gone into developing the actual game. We want video games not animated movies with button mashing between scenes you dumb fuck! | |
Actually horror with 2 players is possible PS: If you watched the 7th video there is a very cool example of horror with 3 people (one of them being an enemy type of character, kind of a puppet master) Having said that Gotta love that video OT: The thing that I am most worried with is the budget, from those leaked pics of UE4 they show a lot of detailed stuff, not just better textures and effects. While I do like the idea of having better visuals I would rather not pay more for them. I would prefer an engine that can render things like destruction and multiple AI's, stuff that relies on coding instead of having an ultra detailed barrel, an ultra detailed chair, an ultra detailed pencil, etc... | |
It's usually a race between Epic Games and Crytek when it comes to engine tech. Though, both companies tend to fail miserably when it comes to crafting engines that can render believable characters; let alone animate them in a way that doesn't make them look like burlap sacks stuffed with rice. [ looking at you Unreal Engine 3 >:( ] Well, fail at that AND at actually making decent games anymore. Frankly, they should both just go to pure tech development.
They most assuredly HAVE "capped it". At this point, the current generation of consoles are stifling game development. And I don't just mean graphically. The limitations of the current gen CPUs make it hard for developers to make any real leaps forward in AI, physics, animation, etc, etc. As little interest as I have in consoles anymore even I can see that they need an upgrade. | |
I thought I should be used to it after 3 years but the Escapist community never cease to surprise me. The level of cynisim is astounding, even with the Escapist's standard. I like CliffyB's style. I hate his attitude and arrogance when it comes to PC gaming but overall, the man is a living legend. The amount of outrage he's stirring amoung the neckbeards is just an added bonus. In the end, I'm all for Cliff's incentive to drag the industry into the next generation. We won't have new "real" nextgen console before 2013 and then this generation have been dragging on for 8 fucking years! Double than the gap between the original Xbox and the 360. Double! While I can blame the flux of corridor shooters as much on close-minded masses as inept developers targeting those masses as the nowadays pathetic hardware in our consoles, it would be great to have new ambitious titles that isn't corridor-cutscene-corridor. More RAM and processing power for developers is a GOOD thing. Let's just hope they take advantage of it. Captcha: Murphy's law. "Murphy's law is an adage or epigram that is typically stated as: "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong"." Well that explains this thread perfectly! | |
Yea, and there's been a recent and surprise addition to the tech arms race too in form of 4A games with Metro2033. Maybe not technically the best on poly count and build methodology. But I stand by their lighting system as one of the best currently available. And do you know what's worst about unreal animation? Animation when someone's holding something... like a gun. They have no concept of weight. Everyone just waves guns around like they're cosplay weapons made of foam. It's almost as bad as your average JRPG. But Epic have lead the way on texture quality atleast 3 completely separate times in my memory. Crysis astounded everyone with their modelling detail and colour palette. But like you said, both companies tend to fall short on the little things like animation and character design. And the not so little things like story and script. You know who do incredible character design and animations but aren't the technical best at actualy graphics or most damning, gameplay? Ninja Theory. Just look at those facial animations? They're incredible. Can you imagine a mix over between Crytek, 4A, Epic and Ninja Theory in the new Joygasm! | |
Am I the only person who doesn't want Cliffy B to be the one to advance gaming? | |
That vid isn't show-casing Unreal Engine 4, by the way. That's an upgrade to Unreal Engine 3. Just pointing that out. But anyway... I'd actually love to see an engine designed by the animators and particle effects designers of Valve, the light-sourcing and texture design teams from Epic and id, the sound engineers from DICE, and the shader and modelling teams from Crytek. Now THAT would be an incredible engine. | |
The problem isnt with the engine. They could do believable expressions and movements with what they got, the problem is with their motivation to do such thing. Modern companies would rather skimp on animation and prefer to dump a few hundred thousand into tacked on multiplayer and crap like that. | |
Yea, but it's using pretty much what U4 is going to be using. Like real time reflections and enhanced lighting, sub surface scattering, deferred rendering. And Direct X11 specifics such as tessellation. It's a pretty good look at what the next engine will look like. | |
I gotta be honest with you, as much as his attitude towards PC gaming and PC gamers can be grating, they don't help their cause by... well acting like PC gamers, in fact all things considered, it is a vicious cycle: So the real losers here are the few decent PC gamers out there, who enjoyed the developers games on PC, and still bought their games when they were released for PC, because lets face it the "PC GAMING IS GOD!" crowd don't care, they stopped caring after stage 5, at which point the damage had already been done. So yeah, CliffyB is kind of an arse, and he certainly has an ego, but compared to the people giving him shit, he is legendary. And I certainly agree with you, one would almost be hardened to the attitude of the community here, but it is almost always astounding to me how hateful they can be when their feelings are hurt by someone... or they disagree with someone's point... or someone that isn't in the "indie" crowd makes an announcement... or a news story doesn't fellate valve... or someone mentions enjoying a certain popular first person shooter series... or someone mentions that they aren't much of a fan of minecraft or half life... or a console announcement is made... or... or.... or... screw it it is 2 o clock in the morning, I am hyped up on coffee, I have an exam in the morning, I think Im gonna go for a run. | |
"They need to damn near render Avatar in real time, because I want it and gamers want it-even if they don't know they want it." Don't presume to tell me what I do and do not want, you arrogant prick. Just because you had a hit with the Gears trilogy doesn't mean you get to lecture me. | |
But it doesn't matter if we disagree with Cliffy B's point. He knows better than us. He said as much himself. | |
No. Go away Cliffy B. All you are good for is writing homo-erotic ship-fic of your own characters on an old CRT computer monitor in an un-air conditioned 1970s mobile home in the middle of the Nevada Desert, where you rage at people with baseless aggression on the internet after people call you gay for posting your ship-fics. | |
you make a good point, his ego is kind of annoying, but then again, is he wrong? | |
For the record I'm not necessarily opposed to his idea though I am skeptical of the outcome. I just thought I'd google the mans views for more context since people brought it up. I do agree that multiplayer really does need to be well thought out from the start if you are going to add it to the game. Also Unreal was an awesome game one of my favorite FPSes I keep going back to. So you take that back Andy!!! :P | |
So you didn't know you wanted a bigger penis? Anyway, I don't agree with Cliffy B's view of the future as awesome looking games with a focus on multiplayer. I have nothing against moving towards the future and a new generation, but I don't think Epic should be at the forefront. Graphical advances are all well and good, but we're at a point where they can't get much better without being complete system hogs, and non-visual aspects of games should be the focus of advancement instead. | |
Cliffy can start by pricing games lower. Like Jim said. Because Jim said so. | |
My cock aside, I agree with you that multiplayer should not always be the focus, I love the Gears 3 multiplayer, and the original Unreal Tournament was fantastic, but I think narrative is incredibly important, which is why I have actually racked up more hours in Gears 3 Co Op and single player than the multiplayer, because I just love the story. With regard to who should be leading us into the next generation, Epic and Ubisoft are pretty close to the top of my list, I love pretty much all of their games, and if Unreal engine 4 sets the standard and they are making more games and more good games as a result of that, then I would be very happy, it would certainly be a preferable turn of events to the idea of EA or Activision leading the charge, because, as much as I am happy to call out this community for whining, I hate EA for their online pass bull* and Activision aren't exactly on my christmas card list either (primarily for them dumping brutal legend partway into development, causing the game that got released (yes I know by EA in the end) to be much less than it could have been). Ubisoft make some of my favourite games, and I believe that all of them run UE3 so them or Epic themselves being the publishers at the head of the pack would be fine by me. | |
If you think 7 years is actually 8 or 9, I suppose you might be banging your head against a wall. You might want to stop, I don't think that's good for you. The Xbox 360 launched in Fall 2005. That's six and a half years ago, 30% less than you claim. It was also only four years after the launch of the original Xbox, which came late that generation. The PS2 came out in 2000. The PS3 came out in 2006, although the PS2 continued to sell strongly for quite awhile after that (unlike the original Xbox). The last cycle was shorter than usual for Microsoft because they came last. They launched earlier than Sony this generation, and are more inclined to milk the generation as long as they can, as profits come in the end, not in the beginning. We're barely overdue, if we are. And if we are "overdue" it is more likely an indication that at the console price point, we're approaching the limit of diminishing returns in terms of what can usefully be produced and sold for a $60 price point. Go ahead and push the next generation to start now and we'll likely see a move to a standard price point of $70 or higher. | |
So...is this iteration of the engine going to do away with the signature texture pop-ins that the Unreal Engine is known for, or are those a "feature?" | |
Pretty much. You nailed it on the head. The one good thing to look forward to is that, at leas on PC, Mac, or Linux, indie gaming is indeed taking off and thus we, the consumers, can focus on actually looking for decent games instead of over priced, overproduced messes that sell over sixty U.S Dollars. And since their graphic capabilities are rather low-end in comparison we can get a product whose focus is on gameplay b/c it is actually cheaper to do it that way. I'm sure Halo 6 is gonna look very pretty and all, but if it is expensive as fuck I'm not buying it. The same goes for anything Sony publishes like The Last of Us 2X Reloaded Sigma, etc. | |
Hopefully PC games will still 50 dollars and people will migrate elsewhere ^^. | |
I saw the title and thought, "Probably an out-of-context quote in the title, blowing things out of proportion." Then I clicked and read, and I facepalmed. Every time I think this guy can't get more cartoonishly egomaniacal, he surprises me.
Um, no. You're not going to get rid of poly-count in real-time rendering (at least not within the next 10 years), so you'll still need a low-poly mesh, regardless of how many actual polys you're able to put in it. You may have a point about the textures, but with each generation dev costs have increased exponentially.
As opposed to "Do we need a new generation in the middle of an economic crisis when the spending power of the average consumer has been shot to hell?" | |
I agree, it's way past time for consoles to stop holding back PC's. It's a pain in the ass watching games fail on multiple levels because the PS3 or 360 can't handle all of it. All that said, Cliffy B should be banned from speaking in public, and also from making games since he doesn't really know how to make more than Gears of War. When he opens his mouth, the human race looks much more stupid. As evidence, in this one article he said, "...our studio to drag this industry into the next generation", and "because I want it and gamers want it-even if they don't know they want it." He needs to get his head of his ass because the last time I checked, while awesome graphics are always a plus, they don't make games. And check the ego on this guy, Cliffy B, Sweeney and Epic are the most important thing in gaming. Only, they aren't. They built and awesome engine, no one can doubt that. But gaming can certainly do well without folks like him telling gamers and developers what they want. | |
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Cliffy is getting full of himself, Epic is a relic, Gears and Halo is pretty much to blame for making action games casual, so I'd say gaming as a whole don't need any more help from them. People should stop giving them so much attention, but since the mainstream media and gamers seem to like mediocre things instead of what's actually important I suppose it's asking for too much.