BioWare Dev: MMOs Are the "Toughest Part" of the Industry | |
As much as I wanted to see this ship continue sinking like so many others the reality of layoffs is never something to smile about. Hopefully publishers start making better decisions with their money so these layoffs stop happening so frequently. | |
Should have made KOTOR III instead of another damn MMO. I have no sympathy. | |
It's funny that these idiots never realize that the reason they'll never match WoW's numbers is that everyone who would play an MMO is already hooked | |
"The iceberg is the toughest part of the ocean without a doubt and we live in cold times in general," he said. | |
Well of course it's the toughest part of the industry. Thanks to the reality of an MMO (lots of people), you basically try to sell a game to people that could've been made some 10 years ago as a singleplayer. I honestly don't understand why it's so hard to throw in a decent combat system for it though. Why must everyone stick to the old hotkey system, even when they try to say "it's action combat"? Hell, we've had action games 10 years ago, is it so impossible to make them work online? Battlefield 3, using ridiculous graphics and quite decent physics does 64 player matches, which is bigger than most MMO's (including TOR's) warzones/battlegrounds. So why is it that MMOs, that usually don't even lump that many people into one area, can't do better? Also, you know why people tolerate how outdated MMOs are compared to the rest of the industry? Because of the social element. Because they like playing with other people, lots of them. So why is it that a big developer, with a big publisher behind them, can completely overlook that and put so ridiculously little emphasis on the community? Separating people into shards, not including even the most basic of group finders, intentionally separating factions as hard as you can in the non-instanced content and intentionally separating people in the instanced content, I'd just love to ask BioWare, what the bloody hell were you thinking? | |
Keep making excuses for your terrible game Bioware. I'm sure it'll pay off in the long run. | |
It will pay off more than coming out and saying our game is shit. I am sure that would do wonders for the subscription numbers. | |
I really wish people would stop saying "Bioware this" and "Bioware that" when it's EA now.
Anything too drastic and they risk alienating the average MMO player. They wanted the WoW crowd so they made a game very similar to WoW except marginal enhancements to the story. Activision has CoD, EA wanted to play catch-up with BF3. | |
It's not like subscribers care. They're leaving en masse after all. | |
You're saying that like the current MMO market is everything they can hope for. Western MMO market has 12 million players, 6 million of which are taken by WoW (so you should automatically discount them as possible players, most WoW players switching to a new game will switch back, whether you make the mechanics familiar or not). The gamer market is much bigger than that and if someone went ahead and made something more interesting, they might grab the attention of someone other than an MMO player. In fact, the reason non-MMOers don't like MMOs is just this. The ridiculously outdated systems. I mean imagine if RPGs still used something like KOTOR's combat system. The MMO, just the MMO, the possibility to play with tons of other people appeals to a much larger crowd than the MMOers. It's just that the genre is stuck using ridiculously outdated mechanics and most people just aren't willing to put up with that shit (and hell, the MMOers themselves are getting tired of it)
Battlefield has been around for a long time and has progressed steadily to where it is now. I don't see much MW influence other than in the availability of certain game modes, but then, that's just offering the players a popular choice, it doesn't change what the game is at its core, at which it's much closer to the old BF games than the MW series. | |
Really? So, all those people who got laid off deserved it, because they didn't work on the game you wanted? Maybe they should have made a KOTOR III, but if they did, people would just be complaining that they waited 8 years to make it. As for TOR, I don't think it is necessarily a fantastic game, but I don't think it's a terrible game that deserves to fail, just because it isn't KOTOR III. It makes me think of at least one person who refused to play Dragon Age: Origins because he was convinced that Bioware abandoned development of Jade Empire 2 in order to make it. | |
People get laid off in every industry, get over it. I didn't buy TOR because I didn't want an MMO. Is that ok or should I have bought it anyway? | |
seriously .... if its the hardest part why not just i dont know NOT MAKE AN MMO? its like the only thing i see from bioware anymore is false advertising and whining followed by petty excuses. | |
You cannot blame Bioware for that. Lucasarts is run by chimpanzees at typewriters, and they canceled KOTOR 3 in 2007 along with plans for a new Rogue Squadron Title and Battlefront 3. | |
If you weren't interested, that's one thing. But there is a difference between not being interested in a game, and saying that anyone who worked on the game deserves to lose their job. | |
partially true, there will never be room for 20 million people to play mmos, but the market can grow a little and it did, WOW subbase stabilised and ToR still have over a million players, im sure some are paying for both games but some arent, that means a gain overall for the MMO market. which is what blizzard has commented on in the past aswell, they like other MMOs to do well so the market grows and stays competitive (and i guess if those MMOS were to fail those consumers are likely to try wow) | |
I was unaware that Lucasarts owned Bioware. Bioware should have said NO to an MMO. | |
Lucasarts doesn't own Bioware, but they do own the KOTOR IP. And if they don't want to give it out, thinking they can make more money off an MMO, then they won't give it out. Like I said: Lucasarts = Chimpanzees. | |
Look, they made a product that I didn't want and didn't make a product I did want, what should I say? Before you answer, I m not interested in being politically correct. | |
double post thanks to faulty captchas | |
...and Bioware could have said NO to an MMO. | |
But they didn't. You can't hold them accountable for not having the chance to make K3, but an MMO might not have been the best move either. | |
No sympathy either.
No, but since they didn't work on a game X wanted he has no real reason to care for them any more that to shrug and say some neutral statement. People are so touchy nowadays, where did all that social/moral/ethical apathy go? | |
Pretty much this. It's amazing how everyone keeps repeating this mistake but no one learns from it. See: All of the folks excited for TERA, whose questing structure is a carbon copy of WoW's. Expect TERA to do better than TORtanic did, but it's not going to knock anyone's socks off with its numbers either. Why? Because it's not learning from the classic blunder of "never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line"....wait, no. I meant to say "you can't beat the reigning champion of an industry by offering exactly the same things they do, because very few folks will jump ship if both ships are exactly the same". TERA's combat is quite different, true, but with an identical feel to standard MMOs in virtually every other area (dull story and same old quests), expect the charm of unique combat to start fading after a while. Incidentally, it will be interesting to see how GW2 performs in this regard, because it's more on the opposing end of this extreme in that it seems to be trying to haul ass as far away from the WoW model as it can. So I'll be curious to see how it ends up working out for them. | |
I hold them accountable for making an MMO and that is hurting them. It's no different than 38 Studios dumping all that money into an MMO and needing to sell 3 Million copies of KoA to break even. | |
You mean... you *can't* realistically compete with a well established product with nothing but brand recognition & gimmicks? Whomever could've seen it coming. | |
Aw man, why did you have go to and bring up Jade Empire 2? ;-; | |
It's so sad seeing all the hate for TOR. Fine, I accept that not everyone is going to like it, but I can't understand why people want it to fail just because they didn't like it. Basically, if you don't like the game don't play it, but stop bitching about it. It feels like a lot of people are hating it just to be part of the bandwagon. Personally, I'm enjoying TOR. Yes, I know it's not perfect; It has it's flaws but I'm going to stick by it for now. This game has so much potential and it's a shame people can't see that. The space mini-game is something not see in other MMOs, and it can easily be expanded in the future. I think the biggest problem with this game is that people were expecting it to be a WoW killer, when actually that's probably not what was aimed for. I'm sure Bioware would like to out-do WoW, but since they'd be able to keep it running with only 500k subscribers I'm thinking they aren't crying that it didn't immediately beat WoW. | |
It wouldn't be so tough if any developers actually made a good mmo. Not that I consider it likely. | |
I like SWTOR. I've been playing for two months now. Strangely enough I never liked WoW. I couldn't be bothered with it. | |
Its pretty obvious they find MMOs tough by the way they completely failed to make one. I keep waiting for the game to meet its potential or the Devs to hint that they some day will but each patch and news of future patch keeps failing to. | |
BioWare Dev: MMOs Are the "Toughest Part" of the Industry
The tough economic situation doesn't help, either.
When successful, an MMO can be a huge financial boon for a developer and publisher. It's not hard to imagine executives in fancy suits looking at World of Warcraft's numbers (even as it declines) and drooling in anticipation. But it's hard, if not impossible to get there - as seen by recent layoffs at Star Wars: The Old Republic maker BioWare Austin.
Speaking with PC Gamer about the cuts, TOR Associate Lead Designer Emmanuel Lusinchi said that it wasn't easy to make and operate an MMO these days. "The MMO is the toughest part of the game industry without a doubt and we live in tough economic times in general," he said, adding that it was difficult to watch people leave who you had worked with for a long time and known personally. "I doubt it'd be easy in any industry for anyone, but it happens."
Despite cuts, said Lusinchi, the TOR development team was still "one of the biggest in the industry." He assured the game's players that BioWare had plans for development going forward to respond to their concerns with "new content [and] new systems."
"We have subscription numbers that many of our competitors will envy," said Lusinchi. "[Maybe] not all the competitors, but we're doing good."
TOR will probably still remain relatively successful despite the layoffs; it's hard to see it sinking underneath the waves with the time and money that has gone into it. But the recent implosion of Project Copernicus developer 38 studios is a none-too-subtle example of how risky it can be to try and stick your hand in the lucrative-looking MMO pot.
Source: PC Gamer
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