Origin Boss Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

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deth2munkies:
Reason number 347 that Origin can fuck itself.

I had that on my computer for all of 12 hours while playing ME3 and I felt dirty the whole time.

Reasons 1-346 being hate EA because everyone else does?

Here's how I use Steam:

- If I want something at launch, I buy it.

- If things go on sale, I may buy them even if I would /never have bought them/ at full price.

There was nothing cheapened here. I already assigned your game a worth in my head. When it reached that level I bought it.

Guess what, I haven't bought Mass Effect 3 yet. Still waiting.

Steam sales can be amazing for developers; According to the developers of Amnesia the steam sale gave them a great boost to recognition amongst gamers and helped keep a word of mouth and community drive going for the game. All you are paying are bandwidth costs. As long as a developer is making at least SOME profit off a steam sale then its a worthwhile thing.

As for cheapening intellectual property i think in terms of souring your users experience of the game the shit EA pulls on a daily basis is far more destructive to an IP than any mega-sale could ever be. EA needs to get its head both out of the past and out of its own ass. The days of the big launch Ģ45 retail game muscling everyone else out are coming to an end and it scares the shit out of people like EA. Digital distribution is helping make games happen.

Take the example of Daiblo 3 (which represents everything vile and wrong in modern gaming) and compare it to the grass-roots hype train behind download only Torchlight II. 5 years ago this would have been impossible. Now Torchlight II may even give Diablo a run for its money.

Ea misunderstands the basic principles behind a digital distribution system.

"What Steam does might be teaching the customer that, 'I might not want it in the first month, but if I look at it in four or five months, I'll get one of those weekend sales and I'll buy it at that time at 75 percent off',"

That's exactly what it has trained me to do. I'm being serious about that, nearly every game I've wanted over the past 6 months I've waited for them to go on sale on Steam. Some of them, like Arkham City or Arkham Asylum, I've even purchased twice; first for my 360 and a second time for my PC when they went on sale.(I do alot of transit between the dorms and home and I like having some of my favorites to play on my PC instead of lugging the 360 about 200 miles)

I'll use a recent example though, Kingdoms of Amalur. A friend of mine had been talking it up a few weeks before its release and so I decided that this was a game I wanted to play. Then I saw you, EA, wanted $60 for the digital copy on Steam and decided to wait till it came down to a price point that I, the consumer, felt was acceptable for investing in a new IP. I had to wait like 3 months but eventually it went on sale for 33% off, still not exactly dirt cheap but it was a price I felt acceptable for a digital copy of the game. I didn't just buy the vanilla version either, I bought the complete edition that came with all the DLC which you were charging $80 dollars for before the 33% off. I got the whole shebang for $52 when I probably could have gone to GameStop and bought it used for much less than that.(thus making sure you and the ailing 38 studios got zilch dollars from me)

So yes, EA, Steam has trained me to be a smarter consumer when it comes to investing my money in entertainment. It has also trained me to instead of buying used, your current boogeyman of doom, when it comes to new IPs that I can instead buy them on sale through Steam when they reach a price point I deem acceptable to my budget.

Of course if you don't like that and try to take it away I can always go back to buying used from GameStop and make sure you never see a god damned dime of my money.

Andy Chalk:

EA Vice President David DeMartini says gamers shouldn't hold their breath waiting for deep-discount sales to come to Origin.

Further proof that EA is run by monkeys, you don't just come out and say "We won't be doing that" to a strategy that has garnered allot of money and sales by a MUCH larger competitor. Stating you're not going to do the same basically reduces Origin to a piece of DRM sale-wise.

In contrast, however, I've picked up games in some of Steam's super sales, something I'd heard about but wasn't sure of, only to pick up the sequel or a related title at or near normal price. Of course, since this is steam we're talking about, that normal price is only ever really under $20, which means I'm picking up more of them compared to the single EA title I buy a year, since it's a pain in the ass to shell out that much cash. Cheapen? Hardly. I value some of those $5 games more than I've valued the $30 gamestop would give me for returning some of their high priced swill.

rolfwesselius:

Daemascus:
Yet another reason Origin will never be able to truly compete with Steam.

Well their servers are better than steamīs and donīt crap out when you donīt want them to.
Also the games launch faster.

Maybe you need to change your Steam server? I get more than double the speed on Steam as I did on Origin.

rolfwesselius:
As much as i hate to admit it training gamers to wait 3 4 months before buying a game is not good in the short run only in the looooooooong run.

Gamers are already trained to wait, box games tend to get cheaper rather quickly also, there are a few exceptions like the original halo and all of the cod games but for the most part if you just wait a few months then boom, cash off.

rolfwesselius:
As much as i hate to admit it training gamers to wait 3 4 months before buying a game is not good in the short run only in the looooooooong run.

To be fair though, if the developers actually made games that gamers want to buy and play, they wouldn't wait a few months for it to be on sale.

Make good games, and your customers will show up, make shitty or sub-par games, and we will often play something else and buy your game once we feel it has finally reached its actual price.

omg when's the last time this guy bought anything on Steam? it's always, always more expensive than a boxed copy. the only games that are cheap are indie titles that have no other real retail channel.

This guy reminds me of a Forum QQ'er.
Wah wah wah, they sell our games for cheap! wah wah wah I don't get as much profit!
Perhaps they'd learn something from steam, that sometimes those 4 hour games that cost $60... Arent actually 'worth' $60.

And it allows a greater number of 'their' products to hit even 'more' people that otherwise, wouldn't pay for it, becuase $60 is to much of a gamble on new IPs.

Steam Sales don't cheapen Intellectual Property, EA does.

Personally, I think continually putting out sequels/reboots into "safe", mass market appeal games cheapens intellectual properties. Unfortunately that doesn't stop them.

You know what? That's fine by me, because I had absolutely no intention of buying EA crap in the first place.

Furthermore, I don't enjoy forking out for grossly overpriced games that merely look interesting, but I don't mind paying 75% off for games that merely look interesting. I might enjoy them, or I might not. EA's idea of a reasonable gamble is way too far outside my betting range; I simply wouldn't consider buying their product to begin with and, if my maths serves me correctly, 25% of the original price is approximately 25% more than 0%, so I'd say the dev's using Steam have the better deal.

I was just thinking, doesn't Valve have to pay a certain amount of money to the developer/publisher of a game before slapping it on a sale? That means the developer isn't losing as much (if any) money...or at the very least, I'm sure Valve need to get permission before selling a game at a lower price, so if these sales really do cheapen the IP then it's the choice of the developer/publisher and steam/valve don't really have anything to do with it.

Wait wait wait wait wait...

EA isn't going to have huge sales? Wow, totally didn't see that coming.

Oh, yes I did. Nevermind.

by this idiot's logic, the Humble Bundles are cheapening intellectual property as well. the humble bundles undercut even the best of steam sales.

I wonder why he believes it to cheapin IP's. Most of the time the exposure will causea massive surge in normal game purchases. If someone see's an indie game on a weekend sale and buys it, plays it, and loves it, they will come back after the weekend and tell their friends, which may cause a surge.

Im pretty sure his whole statement was to try to demonize Steam for their tactics that are making the digital distribution platform highly competitive. Funny thing is if origin cuts their prices, the only person who takes a hit is EA (unless the company who produced it gets royalties). Higher prices does not always equal more money, as we have seen with Steam.

Also, yes, some people will wait to buy a $60 dollar game until it comes on sale because it is expensive, and they dont see an investment at buying it at that price. That is more market tendencies than 'cheapening IP's'. As we see with pre-orders now adays though, quite a few games have people who want to invest money in a gamble because they trust the developer.

This reasoning is ridiculously flawed. Games depreciate in value over time. That doesn't change. People wait for sales on items they want in all other realms and this reasoning is never thrown at it. I am buying a Wacom Cintiq, I'm not going to shop at the most expensive place, I'm gonna go to the least expensive place. I'm also not going to throw $1000 at it now and break my bank account when I can save up more money and possibly find it cheaper in that time.

Take into account how most of the time people who don't immediately buy a game on release will move on from it as time goes on. Really, when it shows up on a Steam sale it is reintroducing it to the psyche of the person who passed it over.

This reasoning also shows the flawed view a company like EA has regarding game sales. They only pay attention to how well a game does for the first month or so. That is wrong. Especially in regards to digital sales because a game will sell continuously for years, if not super fast immediately. In physical sales, the game can actually become more rare the older it gets, so it becomes harder to find. But digital makes that view obsolete.

I love what this guy is doing here. He is acting as if videogames are not a business. In business, the money is the bottom line, so anything that can increase sales by thousands of percent (according to numbers released by Valve) should be considered a good thing. I'm not saying people don't wait till it's on sale, but I'm saying that the people who wait may also not have ever even bought the game at all. It's no different than waiting a year to get a game at $20 rather than $60 at a store location.

Captcha: nice job

Edit: Another aspect of this that drives me nuts is: They are making a pro-consumer policy try to sound like a bad thing. And that drives me nuts. The main issues is that the policy seems to be benefiting everyone but the competition. Companies products are not placed on sale against the companies will, they allow it to be put on sale.

All I can do is list my personal experience with steam sales ironically having to do with a EA title. Basically I loved the sims and sims 2 but when sims 3 came out my family hit a bit of low point when it came to money (A foodstamp level of money problems). I managed to get the original sims 3 but when the ungodly expensive expansion packs came out I simply couldn't afford them and I lost interest quick. So over time more and more came out with me no being able to buy any of them due to needing to buy food over games. Finally I got a job but by that point I felt I was too far behind in the expansion packs to even bother with the game. That's when I finally looked at steam after having done nothing with it for the past three years after installing TF2 and it just happened to be the summer sale. There before me was a sims 3 bundle, all the expansions and stuff packs for $80 when normally they would have cost me over $200. I managed to rack up a bill of over $300 my first steam sale and bought games I still haven't gotten around to playing a year later. Now that I'm all caught up I actually plan on buying future expansion packs and maybe even some stuff off the store. So EA if Steam sales are so bad please explain why in my case they managed to get you another loyal customer for your franchise who otherwise would have just dropped it?

P.S. Waiting for the next steam summer sale to buy the showtime expansion since it's so close.

"Wait, do you think everyone has the intelligence of a four year old? Yes? Okay give them this press release." - The guy who wrote this shit

I still don't understand the logic though. If I want a game, I buy it. If I don't, I won't get it... Unless it's on sale. EA is either A) fucking retarded or (more likely) B) thinks everyone else is fucking retarded.

Steam is already way too expensive. I mean, the sales are the only real reason to buy from there otherwise it's usually cheaper and more worthwhile buying it retail. Same with Origin.

DVS BSTrD:
Steam Sales don't cheapen Intellectual Property, EA does.

Waaghpowa:
Personally, I think continually putting out sequels/reboots into "safe", mass market appeal games cheapens intellectual properties. Unfortunately that doesn't stop them.

I'm surprised that it took till page two for this idea to be posted. The only way that Steam sales "cheapen" IP is by making early adopters second guess whether it was worth it to pay a full $50-$60 for a new AAA game at launch when they could have waited a matter of a month or two and saved 10, 15, even 20 %. The people who buy at launch aren't going to care unless they feel cheated by a lackluster experience, and the people who waited for the sale wouldn't have paid full price no matter how long they had to wait for the sale.

As Waaghpowa pointed out, it's the protectionist and greedy practices of giant publishers that really cheapens people's view of the value of any given IP, as well as indirect negative consequences of these practices on developers and the mainstream gaming press. This cognitive dissonance really shows the mindset of these empty suits and should be reiterated every time one of them express yet another idiotic anti-consumer opinion, as well as the examples of developers for whom Steam sales have been a boon or occasionally a life saver.

Daemascus:

rolfwesselius:

Daemascus:
Yet another reason Origin will never be able to truly compete with Steam.

Well their servers are better than steamīs and donīt crap out when you donīt want them to.
Also the games launch faster.

Congratulations, your the first person I've ever heard say good things about Origin.

Shame it isn't true.

I play on TF2 servers in the United States from the UK and get consistent 50-100ms ping. But BF3 is still a buggy mess as fas as I can tell.

Oh and Battlefield Premium LOOOOOL! They aren't even trying to hide how they are charging you DOUBLE the initial price to get to all the game's content. They are changing as much for the extra content as the INITIAL GAME!

KevinFournier:

As far as I'm concerned, David DeMartini just told me not to even bother shopping on Origin.

EA marketing at its finest. Maybe he thought he was talking to a stockholder rather than any of his actual customers. But have faith, it may soon be done yet:

http://investor.ea.com/stockquote.cfm

It's at a year long LOW in stock price. And has been steadily falling since NOVEMBER. Last time I saw a ski-slope like that was with Game Group. With any luck they will die and their studios will be free! At the very least they could purge the executives (don't worry, I assure you they all have Golden Parachutes, no ill will on any individuals) and put some people in charge who aren't money gouging hacks but rather some people you'd actually like to invest in.

I definitely wouldn't invest in Origin as you may very well be left renting a service that will very soon not exist at all.

McGuinty1:

DVS BSTrD:
Steam Sales don't cheapen Intellectual Property, EA does.

Waaghpowa:
Personally, I think continually putting out sequels/reboots into "safe", mass market appeal games cheapens intellectual properties. Unfortunately that doesn't stop them.

I'm surprised that it took till page two for this idea to be posted.

Sorry I was at a job interview and the escapist never seems to post the good stories when I'm around.

Anymore.

"Cheapens our intellectual property" really does speak volumes for the sheer, blind arrogance at work doesn't it? "No, our IP is special, therefore it shall NEVER be sold for less than the RRP, how dare you suggest such a thing!?"

Also, the idea of Steam "training" it's customers to wait a few months for a sale is just ludicrous; there are some games in my library that I swiftly regretted buying, sale or not, just like there have been some games that I bought on release and thoroughly enjoyed. Yes, it was somewhat irritating to see said games at a xy% discount later on but it didn't make me feel like an idiot for not waiting because I really liked those games. Big sales are a great way (that is, when demo's aren't available) of convincing the interested but undecided to try a game and if they really like it, then paying more, if not full price, for it's sequels will feel less risky to them but if they don't, then at least it was a cheap let down.

How the hell does Origin expect to compete when they utterly refuse to bend (or even remove the spyware, if what I've heard is true)?

I had zero plans to play either of the new Batman games, Asassin's Creed II, LA Noire, or Dragon Age II.

Thanks to Steam/Amazon sales, I picked up all of those games for about $20 total. That's money those developers would not have gotten from me otherwise.

I'm winning, they're winning...
image


... oh, except you, EA. I see now.

image

rolfwesselius:

Daemascus:
Yet another reason Origin will never be able to truly compete with Steam.

Well their servers are better than steamīs and donīt crap out when you donīt want them to.
Also the games launch faster.

That's purely subjective. I honestly don't recall the last time Steam's servers were down (if such a time ever happened in the first place), and I've never found myself booting-up a game via Steam and thinking to myself "Damn this is taking forever, I wish this would speed-up a little".

So I dunno. Maybe Origin does have better servers, but Steam's have never been noticeably poor enough for me to want to go looking for other options. And maybe Origin does boot-up games a little faster, but Steam isn't nearly slow enough on that front, either.

----------

As for the article, it isn't surprising to hear that coming from an EA executive. What he (and companies like EA or Activision) fail to realize is that not everyone wants to (or can) pay top dollar every time a Triple-A title hits the shelves; or in this case, the servers. In fact, that's one of the more prominent gripes with the industry today; video games are too expensive, and don't go down in price fast enough unless they're utter crap.

The.Bard:
I had zero plans to play either of the new Batman games, Asassin's Creed II, LA Noire, or Dragon Age II.

Thanks to Steam/Amazon sales, I picked up all of those games for about $20 total. That's money those developers would not have gotten from me otherwise.

Yeah, see? This is exactly what I'm talking about in my post.

DVS BSTrD:
Sorry I was at a job interview and the escapist never seems to post the good stories when I'm around.

Anymore.

I know exactly what you mean, dude. BTW, I really liked how succinctly your post demonstrated the delusional and avaricious nature of Mr. DeMartini's opinion. Lots of damn good posts in this thread actually. I've been alarmed at what seems to be a continuous decline in the level of discourse on this forum over the last year or so, but threads like this give me hope.

Oh, and good luck landing that job, dude. I'll cross my fingers for you.

This coming from the e-commerce guy at EA??? That Valve are damaging the video game industry?

Fuck you sir, fuck you! I didnt buy battlefield 3 because of that piece of shit application you force people to run on their machines in the interests of providing a better service for consumers... we both know that is complete bullshit and I'm disgusted that you even got away with it.

Can you tell me how what is in quotation marks below, taken from nowhere else but your own EULA for Origin is helping anyone but you to compile stupid amount of information on your customers and how they use their computers?

"You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware"

Monitoring how people use your application fine, but other software it's usage and peripheral devices too, to me that seems almost like spyware.

McGuinty1:

DVS BSTrD:
Sorry I was at a job interview and the escapist never seems to post the good stories when I'm around.

Anymore.

I know exactly what you mean, dude. BTW, I really liked how succinctly your post demonstrated the delusional and avaricious nature of Mr. DeMartini's opinion. Lots of damn good posts in this thread actually. I've been alarmed at what seems to be a continuous decline in the level of discourse on this forum over the last year or so, but threads like this give me hope.

Oh, and good luck landing that job, dude. I'll cross my fingers for you.

It was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the Title and tagline.

And thanks man. It went great ;)

Hmmm...I wonder what EA thinks of the free-to-play market. Specifically ones that aren't "Pay or you stand no chance in hell"

Probably this: "WHAAAT?! Let people play our game and potentially not pay us a single dollar?! That is insane! This is harming the industry (IE, EA only) and making people expect game for FREE!!!!! :o"

Well the epic amount of Steam games i've got from one sale that I don't think I will ever touch could lend credit to the "cheapens IPs" idea.

And come on when a game is at 85% off you've got to think "what's wrong with these things if they're going so cheap?" I do anyway

That's how retail does it after all, you know the crap at Poundland is terrible and just isn't as good as other retailers but shit everything for a pound buy buy buy!

Maybe Steam sales are a bit too... Frequent? It's never "OMG Amazing deals!" it's "oh Steam's doing another sale? Whatever!"

Though sales are sales... Even if I think there's something a bit wrong about hoards of people waiting several months to buy a game when there's so much riding on first week, even first day sales these days.

This is why Origin is a pile of shit. Well one of the reasons anyway.

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