Origin Boss Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT
 

This is why Origin is a pile of shit. Well one of the reasons anyway.

Andy Chalk:
"It's an approach, and I'm not going to say it's not working for Valve. It certainly works for Valve; I don't know if it works as well for the publishing partners who take on the majority of that haircut."

Yeah, right... and if the publishing partners weren't seeing positive results from that they'd stopped participating in the sales.

I can see the rationale behind his desire to maintain a price point, but expecting gamers to pay a higher price because it's "better" for the industry is a pure pipe dream.

This is where I believe the GOG.com's criticism of Steam sales stands while EA's fails - GOG proposed lower regular prices alongside the reduced discounts in their criticism whereas EA's proposal seems to be along the lines of "fuck you. money. now."

Even though Steam-style sales are off the table, DeMartini said EA has "got something else that we do believe in that we'll be rolling out" to attract customers. I can't imagine what it could possibly offer as an effective substitute for ridiculously cheap games, but I sure am looking forward to finding out.

Okay, I'm calling it right now; EA-TV... a collection of EA shilling vlogs and any webshows they can buy (or blatantly rip off without IP hassles). Pride of place will go to 2 shows, one is where are bro, a faux geek and a pair of tits fellate EA's latest franchise shittings and the other is where retired sports stars 'use' EA Sports games to recreate classic matches of their careers.

Any show that doesn't cause an automatic eye gouging reaction in at least 50% of viewers will be put on the subscription only channel.

The thing is though, it's not like Valve are just saying "this is the price we're selling the game at in our sale, as a publisher you must sell your game at this price". Independent Developers and Publishers sign up to be in a sale because it makes them money.

Chances are the majority of people who don't buy the game on release date for the full price, won't buy the game for full price at all. As a publisher, that essentially means your product isn't making you money. You don't even need to know what business is to know that isn't good business.

EA can't succeed in this sector if they look at how other people are doing things successfully and say "we won't do that!".

This is weird.

Didn't they put ME2 on sale for 75% off just a few weeks ago?

Pretty sure they sent me an email about it and everything, wish i hadn't deleted it now, could use a good laugh.

Lovely Mixture:

I fail to see how this is Steam's fault. The exact same things happen with used games, and don't they not get money from used games? If anything, Steam gives them sales that they otherwise wouldn't have.

Though, that's their entire point. They didn't go into and try to push digital distribution to more conveniently get their products to consumers. They went in and want everything sold through them digitally because it makes it so everyone has to pay full price for their game because they wouldn't have a choice since you can't buy a used digital game. They refuse to lower the price of their digital copies event though it cost $0 to distribute it. Why would they do this instead of lowering the price on digital release slightly instead of charging the same that Brick and mortar distributors charge and take a cut of the sale from? They think, and, to be honest, for the most are, too stupid to realize this face and they make an extra $X rather than lowering the price to draw people to their service because they don't want people to realize that there's no reason other than greed that they sell it at that price when everyone eventually switches over to Digital only. They're scumbags and should be shunned from the entire industry for insulting Steam, or even Target for that matter, in any way, shape, and/or form when they're demanding customers give them money for no other reason than they feel entitled to it, like a Elementary School bully.

With comments like that, it's no wonder why EA was voted the worst company in America.

You just don't get the message, do you EA? You're simply treating the consumers (the people who buy your games legally either from you or from some other service) like they are the criminals and you're punishing them with things such as high digital distribution prices and online passes to prove their loyalty, and when we show our loyalty, you give us nothing but inconvenient services and empty wallets.

Make Origin a better platform that can actually compete with Steam or just go home!

Oh, and by the way, thank you EA for ruining the Dead Space franchise. The horror genre is just one step closer to extinction in the games industry.

I have to admit that he is right. Its kind of like buying a used game from gamestop (Though the developers still get the money).

We just need to find the right price point for online stuff that is cheap enough for gamers but expensive enough for developers, I'd think maybe about $30-40 should suffice personally.

Covarr:
Steam sales are REALLY useful for selling sequels. I've bought plenty of games at full price because I liked the previous entry in the series that I got for only ten bucks.

QFT.

I've done exactly that before, bought games in the Steam sale then bought a sequel full price later. Heck, even with physical media I've done the similar - bought a GOTY edition of a game but then bought the sequel full-price later.

I'd also hazard a guess that the kind of person who would wait for an item in the Steam sale is exactly the same person who would do the same if there was no Steam. Pre-Steam, when everyone used to buy from physical stores, there were still people who'd wait for a price drop.

Or they'd get a pre-owned copy (which is quite arguably worse for the publisher than buying it up to 75% off standard retail price on Steam).

The only reason Origin has anybody using it at all, is because EA has started to tie it to their retail games. Without that, they'd have exactly nothing. If you can't compete on price (and they've pretty much guaranteed that by saying no big sales), then you better have something frakkin' incredible to bring to the table. I'm not seeing anything like that from Origin. Bottom line, only EA exclusive games are going to sell at all well on Origin if they can't match the Steam price point. That's basic economics.

Terminate421:
We just need to find the right price point for online stuff that is cheap enough for gamers but expensive enough for developers, I'd think maybe about $30-40 should suffice personally.

They could start with fucking off regional pricing first.

Frostbite3789:

deth2munkies:
Reason number 347 that Origin can fuck itself.

I had that on my computer for all of 12 hours while playing ME3 and I felt dirty the whole time.

Reasons 1-346 being hate EA because everyone else does?

No, but I could cram that one in there when I take it up to 500.

To be fair though, I'm counting every sports game they've released post 2000 as an individual one, the actual list if I clumped all the "Annual full price rerelease franchises" into one it'd be significantly shorter.

RhombusHatesYou:

Terminate421:
We just need to find the right price point for online stuff that is cheap enough for gamers but expensive enough for developers, I'd think maybe about $30-40 should suffice personally.

They could start with fucking off regional pricing first.

Okay then.....I was thinking for steam releases too.

Imagine if Battlefield 4 were released without regional pricing at $40, without origin's shitty policies, but you had to buy it off of origin, would you still buy it? I would.

EA Vice President David DeMartini says gamers shouldn't hold their breath waiting for deep-discount sales to come to Origin.

Clearly they don't want all those freeloading cheapskate comsumers clogging up their servers, so he's trying to scare everyone away!

Origin

     Powered by EVIL

I'm a consumer that has bought a fair amount on Steam. Most of those purchases have been on Steam sales. I do however, usually average about buying 2 games a year at full price. (ironically, all 4 of those purchases have been EA games in the past 2 and half years- all of them through Steam) So it's not about training consumers to "wait and see" it's about keeping them buying on your site.

The EA VP really sounds off kinda whiny wondering why their old sales strategies aren't working as expected on the digital sales platform, almost accusing Steam of undercutting them. Unfortunately, EA hasn't figured out that I don't have to wait for Steam to undercut them. Regular B&M stores like Target already have. I saw Target had ME3 on sale a couple weeks ago for $35 while Origin still sells it for $60. Despite EA making some awesome franchises, they don't get it, and most likely never will.

rolfwesselius:
As much as i hate to admit it training gamers to wait 3 4 months before buying a game is not good in the short run only in the looooooooong run.

Did not think we needed trained for that.

GOG's reasons were dumb, but this guy's reason is "EA would make less money." Boo fucking hoo. Maybe make your games worth the price and more people would be willing to pay full price.

EA, let me tell you a cool story, bro.

The games I buy from Steam sales are, more often than not, games I only had a passing interest in. I really had no plans to buy it in the first place. Then some deep discount comes along and I think, "Meh...why not." Without that sale I wouldn't have bought it at all.

You have two choices. Take my zero dollars or take my $20-$30 and shut the fuck up.

rolfwesselius:
As much as i hate to admit it training gamers to wait 3 4 months before buying a game is not good in the short run only in the looooooooong run.

Because no one in any other industry has waited until the price of something comes down before buying it. The game industry has the same issues of similar industries, but they're the only ones that spend 23 hours a day bitching and complaining about it.

This is the same argument gog.com made but even though I imagine every developer wishes people would buy their game day one and play it, I'm sure they would take 10x that many people buy it at a reduced price and never play it as they still get the money in the end. And that is not even going into paying a less for one game and then later paying for the sequel or game by the same developer at full price.

However the difference between EA and gog.com arguments for me is that gog instead offers lower fairer prices all year round with regular 50% off sales and the occasional free game to stay competitive, while EA sound like they want to keep the prices of their game artificially high (which they could easily do which origin exclusive games at least). As much as I despise EA I would like a real competitor to Steam as monopolies are not good for anyone in the long run. However EA has failed to grasp that Steam is the market leader with over a decade on them, in order to beat them you need to do what works for them and then go the extra mile to make your service better. This is something Origin has failed to do continually since it's release.

Frostbite3789:

deth2munkies:
Reason number 347 that Origin can fuck itself.

I had that on my computer for all of 12 hours while playing ME3 and I felt dirty the whole time.

Reasons 1-346 being hate EA because everyone else does?

image

Oh using origin as spyware (not like steam hardware surveys), the petty pulling of games from steam, claiming to be "indie", rushing deadlines, broken PC-ports, ridiculous premium DLC doubling price of game for all content, browser launch, online pass AND renting out servers = paying twice, serious idea of charging for bullets, always online, Mass Effect Cerberus BS, banning people from ALL of the games they got on origin for raising an issue on forums, abuse of staff with hiring and firing racket, no guarantee of game access if Origin fail (and likely considering EA's ski-slope share price), annual sports games with mere roster update, destroying LucasArts, butchering the Command & Conquer series, commissioning Bioware to rip off WoW with SWTOR, destroying the wonderful developer People Can Fly to make a trash game Bulletstorm with "Cliffy B", Fire 17% of their workforce on the same day they buy a rinky-dink casual game developer for an over-valued quarter-of-a-Billion dollars, Ruining the Ultima Series (for greed), shutting down Origin after abusing the company then whoring out their name, terrible employee treatment to the point they boast of a meagre 13% increase in morale (for a survey that THEY made and rated), terrible and counter-productive ad-campaigns that denigrate the entire industry, endless stream of "me too" derivatives (Dante's Inferno, BF3), Axing promising franchises like Mirror's Edge possible sequel...

Do I need to go on?

Many of these are just titles of multiple individual and repeated problems and these are just the ones that I can think of, it is FAR from comprehensive. Everyone else Hates EA for good reason. It was voted the worst company in America by the most reputable consumer accountability board. Extra Credits has written an open letter to them begging them to stop.

EA is a HORRIBLE publisher. I briefly baulked at the idea of Bungie going to work for Activision but now I'm bloody glad they didn't go with EA. By fugg, EA have been VIOLATING the pooch so badly for so long now. Initially they were just incompetent, now they are down right destructive. Even if it isn't "that bad" it is still one of the worst publisher's in the business.

And Don't say "they must be doing something right" their stock price has CRASHED and is continuing to fall and has been for a while.

Fappy:
Poor EA. They aren't happy with Origin's competitiveness and now resort to throwing around weak criticism to boost their ego. They really are hopeless.

Actually, they're merely echoing something Good Old Games already said a few weeks ago.

What he is saying does make sense in a way. I mean, look at message boards for video games on PC and most of it is. "Wait a few months and then get it on steam sale when the company is begging you to buy it! lulz"

Also, he didn't say EA only, he said for all third parties involved, if any of you had ANY reading comprehension you would see that.

It makes sense, the Amnesia dark descent guys had a sale and did say they made SOME money, but due to it being on sale all the time they didn't even get close to what they wanted.

So yeah. It does make sense. But still, sales are good sometimes and sometimes they aren't. EA should just have said that and I think people would've understood better.

Treblaine:
But I have to hand it to EA, they really are a HORRIBLE publishers, and it's awful how many decent developers work under them and ruin them. I'm actually totally freaking OK with Activision now.

Just because one company is evil doesn't mean another is suddenly good. You're allowed to hate more than one.

RhombusHatesYou:

Terminate421:
We just need to find the right price point for online stuff that is cheap enough for gamers but expensive enough for developers, I'd think maybe about $30-40 should suffice personally.

They could start with fucking off regional pricing first.

I question how that would work with exchange rates in constant flux. If the dollar falls against the euro, for example, do they make every game cheaper in Europe or more expensive in America? What about if the euro falls against the dollar the next week? As long as there are multiple currencies in the world, there will always be regional pricing.

For me at least, whether I buy a game on release at full price or whether I choose to wait for a sale depends on how much I want the game.

so two scenarios, current world vs no steam sales world

Current world
game 1 - I really want and buy it full price when it comes out
game 2 - I'm somewhat interested in but unwilling to pay full price I'll wait for it to go on sale.

No steam sales world
game 1 - I buy on release
game 2 - I don't buy as my desire for it never exceeds the cost of purchase.

I totally agree that we shouldn't have sales with deep discounts. It would be way better if the discounts were permanent.

Intellectual property such as games have a steep depreciation since as they become older they face more competition from new games that come out, they start to lose their multiplayer communities, etc.

In the most extreme example, how likely was someone to buy COD Black Ops once MW3 came out, even though at the time they had almost the same price?

I think it is pretty delusional that companies like EA keep their prices so high for so long after a game's release. If they gradually lowered the price over time then these huge sales wouldn't be so effective or necessary.

Steve the Pocket:

Treblaine:
But I have to hand it to EA, they really are a HORRIBLE publishers, and it's awful how many decent developers work under them and ruin them. I'm actually totally freaking OK with Activision now.

Just because one company is evil doesn't mean another is suddenly good. You're allowed to hate more than one.

True, but I realise that Activision is merely incompetent to the point where I am "OK" with Bungie being in merely a limited partnership with Activison for their new game.

Activision isn't holding many talented studios and running them into the ground. They just have those studios working on CoD games and a stream of movie-licence games from studios that weren't exactly shooting for the moon. I don't care about CoD or movie licence games.

I never said I liked Activison but I never said I still hated them, so let me make it clear, I do NOT like Activison but I just don't care about them. They are doing their own little silly thing with CoD and they aren't ruining everything ELSE like EA are who are gobbling up so many studios and running them into the ground. Or launching a HORRIBLE service like Origin, instead Activision is really pushing Steamworks that works great... if only COD's multiplayer modes weren't fundamentally broken (i.e. domination mode is just a broken KOTH mode) or derivative (See Counterstrike).

Activision dropped that Sleeping Dogs game, but they JUST dropped it. They didn't try to kill it like EA repeatedly does. The titles they abandon they liquidate the studio and hold the rights stopping any further progress with the game.

So Activison aren't trying to be bad, they are trying to do the right thing they are just utter hacks. EA is deliberately and knowingly bad.

Marv666:
I think it would have been really silly for anybody to ever expect EA to do the kind of sales that steam does. Steam is able to do them for the same reason places like walmart and target can. When they put stuff on sale its not them that is eating the difference its the guys who made the product. EA on the other hand is the guy who paid to make the product.

There are no differences to eat up in digital distribution. It costs nothing to produce a copy of a game. Steam is not giving sales out of the goodness of its heart, but simply because it is very profitable. Players buy many more games than they would otherwise. Valve explains this in the employee manual.

Now, EA's motivation is a mystery. It looks like they just genuinely hate gamers. Their policies are sure not helping their stock.

MisterShine:
I haven't seen any devs express that these sales are really.a detriment to them..

Valve has pretty extensive stats that suggest that the sales are rather helpful most of the time and uses that info to help people price their games to maximize sales/profit if they want, both for the regular and sale prices. The devs I've talked to have found Steam sales to be far from detrimental. In fact, if you take advantage of them properly, especially with indie games, you can do crazy things like make several times more sales in a single day than in an average month. And that's measured by profit, not number of units sold, despite being sold at 75% off. It works for more than just indie games though. That's why Valve started doing it with their own games in the first place when the numbers from the L4D2 experiment showed how incredibly well it worked.

some asshole:
Valve's approach could actually be doing the industry more harm than good. "What Steam does might be teaching the customer that, 'I might not want it in the first month, but if I look at it in four or five months'

You mean how people SHOULD approach buying games?

Your company contributed to this ridiculous 'the first weeks all that matters' mentality. Now lie in you cake-crumb infested bed, as people come to their senses and stop hurling 50 at a game before they know if they even truly want it or not.

Fucking unbelievable.

TRANSLATION:

"We will never have sales, and we will continue to have a monopoly of EA games for PC. Now shut up and give me your money!"

Treblaine:

Steve the Pocket:

Treblaine:
But I have to hand it to EA, they really are a HORRIBLE publishers, and it's awful how many decent developers work under them and ruin them. I'm actually totally freaking OK with Activision now.

Just because one company is evil doesn't mean another is suddenly good. You're allowed to hate more than one.

True, but I realise that Activision is merely incompetent to the point where I am "OK" with Bungie being in merely a limited partnership with Activison for their new game.

Activision isn't holding many talented studios and running them into the ground. They just have those studios working on CoD games and a stream of movie-licence games from studios that weren't exactly shooting for the moon. I don't care about CoD or movie licence games.

I never said I liked Activison but I never said I still hated them, so let me make it clear, I do NOT like Activison but I just don't care about them. They are doing their own little silly thing with CoD and they aren't ruining everything ELSE like EA are who are gobbling up so many studios and running them into the ground. Or launching a HORRIBLE service like Origin, instead Activision is really pushing Steamworks that works great... if only COD's multiplayer modes weren't fundamentally broken (i.e. domination mode is just a broken KOTH mode) or derivative (See Counterstrike).

Activision dropped that Sleeping Dogs game, but they JUST dropped it. They didn't try to kill it like EA repeatedly does. The titles they abandon they liquidate the studio and hold the rights stopping any further progress with the game.

So Activison aren't trying to be bad, they are trying to do the right thing they are just utter hacks. EA is deliberately and knowingly bad.

You've got a point.

Activision does what it BELIEVES is right for the sake of the industry or themselves and ends up looking evil.

EA does what they think is funny, is self aware of their idiocy, runs with it, become massive assholes, accepts that their pricks and in the end is evil INTENTIONALLY.

You mean the $60 price point is not within a lot of gamers' acceptable price ranges? Huh. Who'd've thought.

What he seems to be missing is that the 75% model is not common for at least a year or so post-launch. While some people may go straight for the sale, the new-priced product will still bite day one.

Yes, in a way this cheapens games in general... But it's a cheapening as a result of expanded consumer choice. It's a cheapening that should have happened, regardless - Steam just did it first and best.

By the way, EA, $20 is not an acceptable bottom-range price. When I can get your games on Amazon for a fraction of what you charge, it's time to reexamine some priorities.

I bought Sins of a Solar Empire: Trinity on Steam for 20 bucks. Since I liked it, I spent full price to preorder Rebellion on Steam for 40. There's your sixty big ones EA.

Let me do a quick count here.

Number of games I own on Steam: 73
Number of EA games I own on Steam: 5

Number of games I own on Origin: 0
Number of EA games I own on Origin: 0 (natch)

For any given game, there is a maximum price I will pay for it. Many times that price is $0 (I don't want the game). Once in a while, that price will meet or exceed the release price. I decide what is worth my money and how much of my money it is worth.

Mr. DeMartini doesn't seem to like this. In his mind, developers and publishers are the sole arbiter of a game's worth, and all gamers who are interested in a game will buy on release date for full price if they know that the price will never go down (or at least not until the sequel is out). Apparently he believes that all the games available on Origin are SO good that everyone will shell out $40-60 for them, if only those industry-hating villains over at Steam would stop trying to RUIN GAMING FOREVER.

News flash, Dave. I determine how much I want to spend for a game. If you never lower the price below that amount, I never buy the game- simple as that. And I'm far from the only one; the gaming community is not entirely composed of impulse buyers with bottomless wallets. If you think Steam sales cheapen intellectual properties, how much harm does no sale at all do?

Marv666:
I think it would have been really silly for anybody to ever expect EA to do the kind of sales that steam does. Steam is able to do them for the same reason places like walmart and target can. When they put stuff on sale its not them that is eating the difference its the guys who made the product. EA on the other hand is the guy who paid to make the product.

The problem with steam sales is that they do hurt developers. Because of steam sales more people are willing to wait till the game goes on sale to buy it. Because of this you get less sales within the first couple months. Now this forces developers/publishers to agree to put there games on sale on steam just to make up the lost money. This leads to more people wanting to wait to buy games on sale. This leads to a never ending cycle of steam making tons of money and fucking over everybody who created the games.

It is different for small time indie developers though since they cant afford to advertise their games. They are forced to take a massive cut in profits just to get their game known.

Steam does the same big deals with their games, the ones they put their money into. Hell they have made several of their games free to play, even and opened up steam to competing free-to-play games on their service.

Publishers willingly enter into these promotional deals because they make more money by people buying their games who would never have considered their games. Better to get $10 out of them than NOTHING out of them. There is no way to predict sales. Valvedoesn't screw anyone over, they take a smaller cut just like the developers but everyone makes more money and people play more games.

EA is greedy, everyone makes less money and play less games.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here