Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

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Not that the Escapist community is very... um... sensitive to this issue on the whole, but my goodness people. Some of you are as bad as some of the youtube commenters, calling her a slut, questioning and nitpicking everything possible in order to defraud, but where I stand there is really nothing to pick at here. I've seen every episode of her other show, and I don't agree with everything she says. Same as with MovieBob, same as with Yahtzee, they all tend to see issues where I don't at times. That's okay. That's a thing. But on the whole, thus far... she's pretty level headed and on the mark most of the time.

She has an opinion she wants to share, she's asking for money to help get it out there and get research material, and that's also fine. People do that. She's gotten her contribution and then some, so there will be even more episodes then there would have been originally, so yay for those of us who wanted this. ZeFrank also asked for money recently, and got a whole lot of it for something very similar. Very very very few people threw a fit over that. Making documentaries/web videos, drawing, painting, making music, it's all art and it's all work. It's not that much of a stretch to expect that people should get paid for their work and materials if they are good enough. Go up to a famous artist and ask him to draw you a picture for free, and then tell him he should do it because he loves it. He'll laugh in your face. On the whole, she didn't ask for all that much considering the quality of work she does, (if it had been for a professional outlet she would have been paid more than that). The fact that she got many times over what she asked for is a testament to the issue at hand.

This discussion has been bubbling along the issues of gaming for a long, long while now. It is something that shouldn't need to be said, but judging by the hate speech I've seen here and there, it clearly needs to be brought out in the open. Women are people, just like men, we have fantasies and hopes and dreams, just like men. We want to play along side men, together, without feeling left out or objectified. Let us all stand up, point out that there is a problem, and let us all work together to fix it.

The youtube comments are just as bad as making a video or even commenting on 'portrayal of women in videogames'.

Controversy for the sake of controversy.

Edit: Except for some Soul Caliber and a few other games, I have seen women represented fairly. Those few that do have oversexualized women pale in comparison to all the other games.

Eamar:

Khazoth:

I could name you female characters that aren't sexualized at all, and are taken quite seriously, but why don't you take a moment for me to name me off a couple of gay / transsexual male characters that are not..

*Gay for comedies sake

*Lack any personality other then being gay

*Are a character they stapled gay onto for the sake of generating more media attention. (Green Lantern is a good recent example of this)

All true, but that's not what's being discussed here. I just posted something to this effect- complaining about an existing issue does not mean you only care about that one issue. As a woman I am not happy with how women are generally portrayed in games. As a gay person I'm also not happy about how LGBT people tend to be represented. As neither a male or a transgendered person, I am unhappy with how gay/trans males are portrayed. Just as I fall into multiple categories, I am able to acknowledge multiple problems, and I don't think competing to see who has the biggest problems is helpful to anyone.

Why can't we all just be nice to one another?

The problem isn't that she's ignoring it, the problem is that this is all anyone in the gaming community talks about. I'm sick of it. "Oh, hur hur women are sexualized men are pigs."

Faith, April Ryan, Jade, Samus Aran, Kerrigan, Alyx Vance, Both L4D Girls, Shaundi, Purna, etc.

I could go on but i'm sick of this discussion and so are a lot of people. Can we move on from boo hoo poor women? Anyone remember when one of GTA's controversies was that you could beat up women? Fun how women are above being the target of violence, eh?

Vrex360:
Epic snip of epicness

*Stands up and applauds* Bravo, sir, bravo. You actually know what you're talking about. Could have done without the "neckbearded virgins" insults at the end, but otherwise you make very valid, well thought-out points.

This part in particular could do with being highlighted:

This outrage never happened when she made the original 'Tropes versus women' series. It never happened when she first asked for donations about gender and toys (specifically LEGO). This is the first time mainstream outrage by mean spirited insecure [people] happened to her and it was coincidently the first time she decided to tackle video games.

It never ceases to amaze me how blind people are to this issue, and how they fail to realise that a lot of the behaviour in this community is not normal and is considered shocking by "outsiders". Thanks for pointing it out.

Eamar:

Vrex360:
Epic snip of epicness

*Stands up and applauds* Bravo, sir, bravo. You actually know what you're talking about. Could have done without the "neckbearded virgins" insults at the end, but otherwise you make very valid, well thought-out points.

This part in particular could do with being highlighted:

This outrage never happened when she made the original 'Tropes versus women' series. It never happened when she first asked for donations about gender and toys (specifically LEGO). This is the first time mainstream outrage by mean spirited insecure [people] happened to her and it was coincidently the first time she decided to tackle video games.

It never ceases to amaze me how blind people are to this issue, and how they fail to realise that a lot of the behaviour in this community is not normal and is considered shocking by "outsiders". Thanks for pointing it out.

A-friggen-men. I agree with your statements. It feels good to know I'm not alone in a sea of bad behavior.

Also, I would like to introduce this forum to a revolutionary thought.

Youtube Community =/= Gaming Community.

Revolutionary thinking, I know.

Khazoth:

The problem isn't that she's ignoring it, the problem is that this is all anyone in the gaming community talks about. I'm sick of it. "Oh, hur hur women are sexualized men are pigs."

Faith, April Ryan, Jade, Samus Aran, Kerrigan, Alyx Vance, Both L4D Girls, Shaundi, Purna, etc.

I could go on but i'm sick of this discussion and so are a lot of people. Can we move on from boo hoo poor women? Anyone remember when one of GTA's controversies was that you could beat up women? Fun how women are above being the target of violence, eh?

Come now, this doesn't have to be about insulting those who have a problem with the portrayal of women. I for one consider the idea that women should never be the enemies in games inherently sexist, and so do most of the feminists I've seen on here recently. Likewise, no feminist worth her salt is going to say anything like "men are pigs." That's just as bad as "women are sluts" or something.

The way to make people talk about the things you want to talk about is to bring it up more often. But not in such a way that you insult other people who also have valid complaints.

If I went around saying "yeah, men get a raw deal sometimes but boo hoo poor men stop talking about it and address MY problems", I'd not be well received, and understandably so. You see what I'm saying?

I sympathise with you, I really do, and I agree this gets more exposure than some other issues. Based on the responses it gets from a lot of people I'd say there's still a way to go, but you obviously disagree. But there's really no need to belittle people's arguments or insult them.

Right, here's why dealing with stereotypes facing women is a bigger issue than stereotypes facing men. Note, I'm not saying stereotypes around men aren't a bad thing, it's really to do with the reasons these stereotypes exist.

The stereotypes about men can be sorted into two major categories

1) Super manly
2) Not manly

These stereotypes revolve around this idea of men being the ultimate ideal. Manly stereotypes of men are all about "THE ULTIMATE MAN" and how God damn awesome he is. Marcus Fenix, the hordes of Call of Duty tough guy protagonists, Master Chief, Adam Jensen, and so on. These super manly men are generally protagonists.

Think about non-manly stereotypes.

- The gay man. Since being straight is a "MANLY" thing, this guy's normally played for laughs. Often, note how stereotypical gay men are often very feminine in their actions and mannerisms. They aren't straight, therefore they aren't MEN, therefore they should act like women.

- The nerd. Also played for laughs. He's a weakling, he's usually not the protagonist (think of Snake and Otacon).

- The evil guy. Your stereotypical evil wizard, what isn't he? Young, strong, big, surrounded by women, charging into battle swinging a sword. The whole idea of soldiers being more noble and honourable than wizards stems from MANLINESS being desired above all else and spells not being MANLY. This is partly why wizards are so often villains and kings so often good guys.

The stereotypes about women can also be sorted into two major categories.

1) Sexy
2) Burly

The sexy women are designed to be appealing to men. That's basically their only purpose, they're eye candy. Women who's only expected role is to look pretty. This is also where you get the whole "damsel in distress" thing, the hero's reward is a pretty woman.

The burly women are women is a relatively new stereotype I feel. These are women who are as MANLY as possible, it's all about basically making women men since men are the best right?

Basically, the only good is the MAN. Therefore, everything that isn't a man is inferior (or is not useful to men, see "sexy"), and this includes men who don't live up to standards of manliness.

Men are only inferior when they're not MANLY enough, women are always inferior and the best they can hope is to be sexy (since, to the straight "MANLY" man, this is something that can be done by men) or as much like men as possible.

Edit: As to my categories, notice how the different tropes dealt with by the Kickstarter fit rather neatly into them (apart from the voodoo priestess one, but that's actually covered under a separate category I didn't mention of "It's foreign, i.e. strange and barbaric and different i.e. they're allowed to do crazy stuff).

The sexy stereotype - Damsel in Distress - Video #1
The Fighting F#@k Toy - Video #2
The Sexy Sidekick - Video #3
The Sexy Villainess - Video #4
Background Decoration - Video #5
Women as Reward - Video #7

The burly stereotype - Mrs. Male Character - Video #8
Unattractive Equals Evil - Video #9
Man with Boobs - Video #10

Vrex360:
snip

It's just like... you are right. You came up the point I reached when this incident with the fighting series happened (where the female player was harassed by her own teammmember) and people started defending this behaviour as "smacktalk" or even normal part of gaming community.

rolfwesselius:
Sure give her money just so she can keep screamabout how all men are sexist.
How about if you want games to be more for you,MAKE THEM YOURSELF!

Stephen Tate:
Why should people pay for propaganda? It's ridiculous. If you have extremist views you want to express, don't expect everyone to rush at you baring their cash in anticipation.

You have not seen one of her videos and are talking out of your asses. How about you shut up and inform yourselfs about the work of this woman before you start spewing bullshit?

Furrama:
snip

I appreciate your agreement :) You may want to add something to that post to avoid a low-content warning though.

Khazoth:

Eamar:

Khazoth:

I could name you female characters that aren't sexualized at all, and are taken quite seriously, but why don't you take a moment for me to name me off a couple of gay / transsexual male characters that are not..

*Gay for comedies sake

*Lack any personality other then being gay

*Are a character they stapled gay onto for the sake of generating more media attention. (Green Lantern is a good recent example of this)

All true, but that's not what's being discussed here. I just posted something to this effect- complaining about an existing issue does not mean you only care about that one issue. As a woman I am not happy with how women are generally portrayed in games. As a gay person I'm also not happy about how LGBT people tend to be represented. As neither a male or a transgendered person, I am unhappy with how gay/trans males are portrayed. Just as I fall into multiple categories, I am able to acknowledge multiple problems, and I don't think competing to see who has the biggest problems is helpful to anyone.

Why can't we all just be nice to one another?

The problem isn't that she's ignoring it, the problem is that this is all anyone in the gaming community talks about. I'm sick of it. "Oh, hur hur women are sexualized men are pigs."

Faith, April Ryan, Jade, Samus Aran, Kerrigan, Alyx Vance, Both L4D Girls, Shaundi, Purna, etc.

I could go on but i'm sick of this discussion and so are a lot of people. Can we move on from boo hoo poor women? Anyone remember when one of GTA's controversies was that you could beat up women? Fun how women are above being the target of violence, eh?

You pretty much nailed it. Some games overdo the whole sexuality thing, but instead of ignoring it, both men and women make a fuss about it that leads to publicity. I would have never seen the Hitman trailer if there wasn't a big ass article on every gaming website. I wouldn't even know what DoA is if it didn't appear in every topic about sexualization of women, possibly because it's one of those 5 games that does so.

Cowpoo:

You pretty much nailed it. Some games overdo the whole sexuality thing, but instead of ignoring it, both men and women make a fuss about it that leads to publicity. I would have never seen the Hitman trailer if there wasn't a big ass article on every gaming website. I wouldn't even know what DoA is if it didn't appear in every topic about sexualization of women, possibly because it's one of those 5 games that does so.

Yeah, I hadn't heard about Hitman until it was brought up on the Escapist. Remake the trailer with a bunch of transvestites and there won't really be a problem with the media masses.

Funny how that works all these years later huh?

Furrama:

She has an opinion she wants to share, she's asking for money to help get it out there and get research material, and that's also fine. People do that. She's gotten her contribution and then some, so there will be even more episodes then there would have been originally, so yay for those of us who wanted this. ZeFrank also asked for money recently, and got a whole lot of it for something very similar. Very very very few people threw a fit over that. Making documentaries/web videos, drawing, painting, making music, it's all art and it's all work. It's not that much of a stretch to expect that people should get paid for their work and materials if they are good enough. Go up to a famous artist and ask him to draw you a picture for free, and then tell him he should do it because he loves it. He'll laugh in your face. On the whole, she didn't ask for all that much considering the quality of work she does, (if it had been for a professional outlet she would have been paid more than that). The fact that she got many times over what she asked for is a testament to the issue at hand.

She now has over fifty thousand dollars to do some research on wikipedia and other free websites. She now has fifty THOUSAND dollars to do some dumb fucking web series that has been done COUNTLESS times before, for FREE.
I don't give enough of a shit about this to watch the series because 1. feminism makes my eyes voluntarily roll and 2. why the fuck do people care THIS MUCH about video games, but that fact fills me with disgust.

Khazoth:
Also, I would like to introduce this forum to a revolutionary thought.

Youtube Community =/= Gaming Community.

Revolutionary thinking, I know.

http://www.destructoid.com/kickstarter-project-leads-to-harassment-and-threats-229304.phtml

But what if it is not only Youtube? What if those attacks were inspired by some gaming forums? Yeah, hard to admit. But look alone in this thread. This reaction is the reaction of the gaming community. Not just Youtube kids being Yt kids (which is an unacceptable situation on itself). Hold that mirror in front of your face:

People are talking about this topic because it is an issue. The gaming community is full of pricks who protect their prickishness by anonymity and the wide acceptance of racism and sexism in the community. Not only that but the gaming community is rather fast in attacking anyone who they dislike in the lowest manners. Remember the harassment victim of the fighting game series of whatever the site is called or the one Bioware writer. Yeah, it went as pretty there as here.

So, is it just safe to say that we're all losers in this?

Because both sides seem to be acting irrationally.

okay At first while I was reading this I was like why are people getting so upset I mean I dislike feminists most of the time but this is insane.
Then I clicked the video, these were the first words that came out of my mouth "OH NO IT'S YOU" seriously I can not stand her I've seen some of her other videos and she is everything that is wrong with modern feminism.

Angryman101:

She now has over fifty thousand dollars to do some research on wikipedia and other free websites. She now has fifty THOUSAND dollars to do some dumb fucking web series that has been done COUNTLESS times before, for FREE.
I don't give enough of a shit about this to watch the series because 1. feminism makes my eyes voluntarily roll and 2. why the fuck do people care THIS MUCH about video games, but that fact fills me with disgust.

*sigh*

Then show me the webseries that defines and explains all the tropes she wants to cover in her series with examples of both offenders as well as games which avoid those topics at all. Also, they better include the origin of the trope.

Also, your last question is fucking stupid. Why do people care about anything that is not needed for survival? People care about video games because they are actually a big part of our society, they are an artistic as an educational medium which suffers from the same problems other media suffer. Maybe even more because people like you tend to excuse everything with "it's just a game for boys so they are allowed to depict women in those tropes".

you could've shortened this article to: This is the video 4chan picked to raid today
("raid" isn't really the right word, it fits more for an entire site, but that's what they say in the threads)

Angryman101:
She now has fifty THOUSAND dollars

...Ow, my soul. I seriously think I felt a blood vessel pop when I read that. I think she has every right to do this web series but.. Exactly what is she going to spend that money on?

General Vagueness:
you could've shortened this article to: This is the video 4chan picked to raid today
("raid" isn't really the right word, it fits more for an entire site, but that's what they say in the threads)

Sexism gets more views

Angryman101:

Furrama:

She has an opinion she wants to share, she's asking for money to help get it out there and get research material, and that's also fine. People do that. She's gotten her contribution and then some, so there will be even more episodes then there would have been originally, so yay for those of us who wanted this. ZeFrank also asked for money recently, and got a whole lot of it for something very similar. Very very very few people threw a fit over that. Making documentaries/web videos, drawing, painting, making music, it's all art and it's all work. It's not that much of a stretch to expect that people should get paid for their work and materials if they are good enough. Go up to a famous artist and ask him to draw you a picture for free, and then tell him he should do it because he loves it. He'll laugh in your face. On the whole, she didn't ask for all that much considering the quality of work she does, (if it had been for a professional outlet she would have been paid more than that). The fact that she got many times over what she asked for is a testament to the issue at hand.

She now has over fifty thousand dollars to do some research on wikipedia and other free websites. She now has fifty THOUSAND dollars to do some dumb fucking web series that has been done COUNTLESS times before, for FREE.
I don't give enough of a shit about this to watch the series because 1. feminism makes my eyes voluntarily roll and 2. why the fuck do people care THIS MUCH about video games, but that fact fills me with disgust.

She asked for 6,000. She's putting it up for everyone to watch for free. I can easily see where 6,000 dollars would go in the production she described. Games, platforms she might not have, big heavy books and other sources that don't run cheap, lights, upkeep on the camera, software, lots of things. Plus the hours of work one would put into the the thing. That much for what she wants to do makes sense with market standards.

People... people gave her more than that. A sign of solidarity perhaps, but they gave it to her. Don't be mad at her for getting far more than she asked for. That's like getting mad at a street performer for getting a few extra $50 dollars put in his hat by some kindly strangers who liked his work.

And it's not 50,000 anymore. It's 70,893. And growing by the hundreds every other refresh.

As far as your stance on feminism, I'm sorry you feel that way. True feminism strives for equality for both men and women, and I'm sorry that you don't want that. As far as why people care so much about video games? I dunno, why are you commenting on a gaming website?

Richardplex:
Edit: Kay guys, no-one else can bring anything new the table in telling me what the video does wrong. For the love of all the gods, stop quoting me, I simply don't care any more, you aren't adding anything.

Wow. Talk about one sided journalism. For a rational view of why people are against this For a reason why people are against this who aren't misogynistic pricks, that isn't just picking youtube comments, which are vile on every subject under the sun, and calling it news, here [Edit:while it makes some valid points, take it with a grain of salt, as ForeverPandering is opinionated and does enjoy bitching and making fun of people. But still, he gives some valid non-misogynist points against the project, though his ""Females have ample and adequate representation in video games" bit is BS, ignore that]:

I'm not here to really talk about what you said, rather on the video you posted. If you haven't realized yet, that video is completely inaccurate on most of the information it gives out. Take the very beginning for example, where he mentions that this is a bad idea for a documentary and he would be right if it was not for one major factor, this is not a documentary. This is a critique of popular culture. While documentaries need to focus on both sides of the coin, critique does not. Critique is all about finding fault and problems within a scenario. Yahtzee is a critic, MovieBob writes critiques, Micheal Moore is a critic. The History Channel however, mostly does documentaries.

He also talks about how the main consumers of video games are 15-25 year old males. They're aren't. The average consumer is in their 30s, has been playing on and off since 1990 and there are more adult female gamers over the age of 18 then there are teenage male gamers 17 or younger. (Source:http://www.theesa.com/facts/index.asp). The idea of Gamers being mostly male has been becoming less and less true as years have passed, but I don't really think t

Lastly, I don't believe I have ever heard of an anti-femenist reason given for Madison Paige and I've never even heard of a pro or anti complaint for the other 3 and due to the fact that I got work in about 45 minutes, I can't really spend a lot of time researching it. So for the sake of arguments, I'm just gonna focus on Madison from Heavy Rain.

Now, from what I'm beginning to see here from the few sources that have come up, the majority of the complaints against Madison are not about the character. Rather, they are for the scenarios she is forced into, namely sexual assault, at least 2 of these cases if I remember correctly, 3 if you count the DLC and a possible 4th if you wish to count her dream sequence where she is attacked while wearing nothing but a tank top and panties. I would not call the whole "Almost every action sequence she is in is used to show off her body or to place her in a scenario where she could be sexually assaulted" as an "asinine reason."
(Source:http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=1691 and http://honestcake.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/assault-is-not-sexy-zoo-today/)

ThunderCavalier:
So, is it just safe to say that we're all losers in this?

Because both sides seem to be acting irrationally.

I dunno, this is what the conversation looks like from my end.

A: Hey, world, here is my documentary kickstarter.
B: Sweet, have some money.
C: How dare you analyze things I like! [sexism]
A: Cool, I funded the doc. Thanks, kickstarters!
C: [sexism] [antisemitism] [threats]
A: Whoa, not cool with the harassment, guys.
B: Well, this certainly proves we need more discussion of sexism in games - here's even more money!
A: Thanks, kickstarters!

Repeat the last few steps as necessary.

Kahunaburger:

ThunderCavalier:
So, is it just safe to say that we're all losers in this?

Because both sides seem to be acting irrationally.

I dunno, this is what the conversation looks like from my end.
A: Hey, world, here is my documentary kickstarter.
B: Sweet, have some money.
C: How dare you analyze things I like! [sexism]
A: Cool, I funded the doc. Thanks, kickstarters!
C: [sexism] [antisemitism] [threats]
A: Whoa, not cool with the harassment, guys.
B: Well, this certainly proves we need more discussion of sexism in games - here's even more money!
A: Thanks, kickstarters!

Repeat the last few steps as necessary.

If this qualifies as her 'losing' I really wanna lose like her all the way to the casinos in vegas.

TheKasp:

*sigh*

Then show me the webseries that defines and explains all the tropes she wants to cover in her series with examples of both offenders as well as games which avoid those topics at all. Also, they better include the origin of the trope.

Also, your last question is fucking stupid. Why do people care about anything that is not needed for survival? People care about video games because they are actually a big part of our society, they are an artistic as an educational medium which suffers from the same problems other media suffer. Maybe even more because people like you tend to excuse everything with "it's just a game for boys so they are allowed to depict women in those tropes".

Go onto 'tvtropes.com' and read the pages about female characters. You will get literally everything you need to know. And nobody who wrote those was paid. Then google 'female representation in video games', look of the video section, and take your pick. Everything there will have the same points she is raising.
I think anybody who passively consumes entertainment without contributing themselves before becoming passionate about it is trash. They are what is wrong with society, not 'female misrepresentation.' It makes me sick.

maddawg IAJI:

He also talks about how the main consumers of video games are 15-25 year old males. They're aren't. The average consumer is in their 30s, has been playing on and off since 1990 and there are more adult female gamers over the age of 18 then there are teenage male gamers 17 or younger. (Source:http://www.theesa.com/facts/index.asp). The idea of Gamers being mostly male has been becoming less and less true as years have passed, but I don't really think t

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18280000

"Women aged 18+ represent a greater portion of game-playing population (37%) than boys aged 17 or younger (13%) "

42% of gamers in the US are female. 31% in Europe. Just to add to your point.

Angryman101:

Go onto 'tvtropes.com' and read the pages about female characters. You will get literally everything you need to know. And nobody who wrote those was paid. Then google 'female representation in video games', look of the video section, and take your pick. Everything there will have the same points she is raising.
I think anybody who passively consumes entertainment without contributing themselves before becoming passionate about it is trash. They are what is wrong with society, not 'female misrepresentation.' It makes me sick.

You talked about a webseries, not a website.

How about you do the work because you made the claim. I want a web series (best in video form) to work through the list she posted on her kickstarter page.

Also, nice to see that you know what points she'll raise. Can I have your crystal ball for my finals of this semester?

Furrama:

She asked for 6,000. She's putting it up for everyone to watch for free. I can easily see where 6,000 dollars would go in the production she described. Games, platforms she might not have, big heavy books and other sources that don't run cheap, lights, upkeep on the camera, software, lots of things. Plus the hours of work one would put into the the thing. That much for what she wants to do makes sense with market standards.

Soooo... She wanted 6,000 dollars to buy video games and platforms...

Books that she doesn't need for this type of research.

Mysterious 'Other Sources' which I now deem to be the Necronomicon.

Lights for her house, which seemed extremely adequate in the video example.

Upkeep on a camera that seemed to be doing just fine.

Software she seemed to already have.

And mysterious 'lots of things' which I now deem to be a blood pact with the dark one Cthulhu.

... Nah she totally couldn't do the video she wanted to do with the current resources she has made countless other videos with.

Eamar:

Jiggy:

Eamar:

I have the good fortune of being friends IRL with plenty of male gamers who don't think this way. By which I mean sure, they enjoy the odd bit of eye candy (as do I, I am by no means saying there's no place for that, please don't get me wrong), but they are also capable of functioning in society without reducing every female to a sex object. They don't run screaming from a game, film or book because they felt alienated by a believable female character, or because there aren't enough boobs.

And you think that's the main problem? Boobs?

That's not what I said, and you know it.

You implied that I'm saying that every guy wants a sex object of some kind, I didn't. What I said is "if it is so feasible, why wouldn't they already be doing it." That is a direct contradiction to the notion that I am claiming something false when I say "perhaps the target audience wouldn't respond well to it, whatever "it" may be" I never said anything about T&A, that's been other people assuming that's what I'm saying.

If you honestly think like that then you sir sound either very young, very inexperienced, or just plain misanthropic. Sorry, but that's how it comes across.

You are wrong in all cases. I am realistic. Big difference.

I never said you were any of those things, I said that's how you sound. How you came across to me in that post. That's all.

(Disclaimer, this is not what I think, it's just for the sake of argument)

Would I have to directly say "You, Eamar, are a bitch." to make clear that it is my intention to get that across to you? No, I wouldn't, you know it, I know it. You can make the whole thing seem harmless by giving it qualifiers like that I "sound" that way, but we both know that is just you covering your butt to avoid Mod wrath, so please, atleast stand by it.

No no no no no no no, you don't just get to name drop, that's not what I asked for, how do you know if I've played any of those games? You don't.

Because Google is so challenging to use... But fine, if you want to be difficult (pictures spoilered for space):

This is another point where you are being passive aggressive. I'M being "difficult" because I asked you to back your statement up with something.

Alyx in sensibly proportioned? She looks pretty thin to me. Aside from that, the PC in HL has no personality whatsoever, someone has to make up for that. Does that mean that Valve is Misandrist? Let's look at some Male Valve Characters

image

What's this? She sure does seem overly sexualized the moment you can visually tell that she actually is a woman, I mean, the suit even cups her breasts. Did Samus have a single line in the original Metroid? Honest question, I haven't played any of them...although I am quite aware of the controversy surronding her charterization in Other M.

You say hacking is non-gender-specific, I say someone just wanted to remind that women tend to be discouraged from taking a interest in technology. So, could it be that she is the hacker specifically for that reason in a attempt to pander?

That's a woman? Going by that picture she looks nothing like a woman.

You'll notice that none of these characters is wholly defined by their gender, and none of them is there as eye candy. They have different personalities, none of them is "the girl." That's what I was getting at.

What characters actually are simply "the girl"? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is princess peach and mario games can hardly be taken seriously in any aspect.

I am doing no such thing, as pointed out above. Please quit playing the victim. I have no problem with you personally, I just disagree with some of the things you've said.

Sure you were.

Furrama:
She asked for 6,000. She's putting it up for everyone to watch for free. I can easily see where 6,000 dollars would go in the production she described. Games, platforms she might not have, big heavy books and other sources that don't run cheap, lights, upkeep on the camera, software, lots of things. Plus the hours of work one would put into the the thing. That much for what she wants to do makes sense with market standards.

People... people gave her more than that. A sign of solidarity perhaps, but they gave it to her. Don't be mad at her for getting far more than she asked for. That's like getting mad at a street performer for getting a few extra $50 dollars put in his hat by some kindly strangers who liked his work.

And it's not 50,000 anymore. It's 70,893. And growing by the hundreds every other refresh.

As far as your stance on feminism, I'm sorry you feel that way. True feminism strives for equality for both men and women, and I'm sorry that you don't want that. As far as why people care so much about video games? I dunno, why are you commenting on a gaming website?

What makes me bilious is that she shouldn't be asking for shit. As I said, she's doing what hundreds of people have done before her. She's not going to add anything new to the discussion. Everyone is aware of the issue.
She is, however, getting $70k for producing mediocre material on a saturated subject. I have no doubt that she's getting even more money now because people are like 'misogynists! well now i'm giving her MORE money because fuck those dirty men! this'll show them.' She doesn't deserve that money, and this whole thing is a clusterfuck of self righteous feminists and dumb people on youtube.
Don't care to argue about feminism. As for your question, it's because I enjoy occasionally playing video games, and sometimes discussing thematic qualities and how they reflect on society. I don't care enough to get mad at the subject matter of the videos themselves, nor am I passionate about video games. I'd much rather be, I dunno, leatherworking or working on some other practical skills than just passively consuming entertainment.

Richardplex:

That guy is weird, he seems to be angry solely about people misusing the term "documentary" for these shows.

I mean, I'm familiar with the bronycon example, it's pretty obvious that most bronies are only funding it to get an enjoyable movie with John De Lancie, Lauren Faust, and Tara Strong talking about ponies. Yeah, there is also some talk about presenting the fandom to outsiders, but it's kinda obvious even in the fandom that this is just marketing-talk.

I guess same applies to the Tropes vs. Women show. It will obviously air to an audience that is already interested in it's theme, just like anything else, but is it circlejerking for it? You could call it that, but than anything that's appealing to a minority is circlejerking.

I mean, all the Internet shows like the Game Overthinker, the Jimquisition, Extra Credits, include deep talking about gaming and sociology, and how to make games more artistically acceptable, to a niche of gamers who care about that already cares about that issue.

The only difference is that they don't vall themselves "documentaries", but that seems to be more of a Kickstarter category thing, where you can choose only between "animation" "narrative" or "documentary".

Arguing about how they are technically not unbiased enough to be called real documentaries, sounds like nitpicking.

Angryman101:

She is, however, getting $70k for producing mediocre material on a saturated subject.

There's an easy solution: don't donate to the kickstarter. No real point in whining about what other people think is a worthwhile thing to spend their money on. After all,

image

TheKasp:

You talked about a webseries, not a website.

How about you do the work because you made the claim. I want a web series (best in video form) to work through the list she posted on her kickstarter page.

Also, nice to see that you know what points she'll raise. Can I have your crystal ball for my finals of this semester?

Cool, I'll make a webseries of myself reading off of tvtropes. Can I have my 70 thousand dollars now?
I know because there is NOTHING new you can add to the discussion of sexual representation in vidya. You can recycle old viewpoints and material and give it a shiny new veneer, but it's all been done to death. These people are paying for that shiny new finish and to spite the dumbasses horsing around on youtube, as stated in my previous comment.

Kahunaburger:

Angryman101:

She is, however, getting $70k for producing mediocre material on a saturated subject.

There's an easy solution: don't donate to the kickstarter. No real point in whining about what other people think is a worthwhile thing to spend their money on. After all,

image

And people wonder why I always chose to side with the USSR in Tropico 4.

Grey Carter:
Also if you want equality, we talk to men like that too, so fuck off faggo.. I mean lesbian," says Arto572

Guys, we've gotta give props to Arto572. At least he clarified that it's not just being a gay man that's a derogatory trait, but just homosexuals in general.
I applaud you sir.

All in all I don't see much discussion value or literary advantage to this article but it was very funny and entertaining.

dear lord, 'derogatory trait'? 'literary advantage'? I am making no sense. My brain is officially fried from exams e.e

Kahunaburger:

Angryman101:

She is, however, getting $70k for producing mediocre material on a saturated subject.

There's an easy solution: don't donate to the kickstarter. No real point in whining about what other people think is a worthwhile thing to spend their money on. After all,

image

I'm not whining, I'm just stating that it irritates my IBS that 1. she's getting so much money for bullshit and 2. that I didn't think of it first.

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