Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

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Skratt:

bringer of illumination:
Okay, I'm done.

If this is what passes for journalism on the Escapist, then the Escapist can go fuck itself.

Goodbye, you won't be seeing me again.

Oh, was the ovendodger comment yours?

Oh for fuck's sake, I knew some smartass would crawl from the woodwork with some shit like this, I knew I said I wouldn't ever comment again, but I'll be fucked if I'm not gonna defend myself.

No, the comment wasn't mine, the fact that I think this kickstarter project is a load of horseshit* is irrelevant to my post, and has nothing to do with her being Jewish.

What I have a problem with is that this article is a piece of garbage of no POSSIBLE interest to anyone.

"OH NO! PEOPLE ARE BEING MEAN AND WACIST ON THE INTERWEBS!!!" You might as well link to any given thread on fucking 4chan and call that "Journalism".

I frankly can't fucking believe that this article was approved.

*Incidentally, if you want to know why I think it's horseshit, this video is a nice place to start:

Who's that hot nurse character from the title screen of their video?
I kid, I kid...

I've no idea why we have an article about the negativity of youtube comments (Of all things, its youtube for god's sake). You really can just say that: X video has attracted Y horde on youtube. There really is no need for this at all.

Father Time:
I haven't seen those escapist posts you're talking about

Scroll down the first page, there's a guy making a heartfelt plea for the rights of 'e-intimidation'. I found a lot of similar posts throughout the comments as well.

I can't find it. I tried googling it. Got nothing

Okay for a second try go to Hitman Plan B and read the comments. I left a big comment on the first page (you can't miss it and I link the article below it.

I think if she used the money for other purposes it'd be fraud. Then again it'd be hard to bust her for.

Possibly but again people willingly gave her that money long after she had made clear that they had reached their goal. So perhaps she'll use it to fund future projects as well, who knows?

I never defended the youtube trolls.

Fair enough, I'm sorry but it just sort of seemed like you were.

You are literally the second person I've seen on the escapist to bring him up. And for what it's worth he did have an explanation for that freespeechvids page, a while after he took down the site, (it's called response to criticism or something, this all happened before I heard about him so I haven't kept up).

My point was that it's just as legitimate to get up in his grill about the same issue but he was never bombarded with rape threats.

Really, because the majority in this don't like them. There is no discussion value in it so people have moved on to the series itself.

True but like I said I've seen a few comments that honestly seemed to be defending the reaction against her, or acting like she deserved it. That I just find wrong.

Yeah only with other feminists with small disagreements, I've tried posting criticism (without insulting her) and all the comments need to be approved by her and criticism almost never shows up.

Actually I do remember seeing this really vicious response to her first video on LEGO that she allowed to be posted. Granted she then ripped him a new asshole in the comments (destroyed his argument in like two seconds) but still she let him post.

I cannot, I have tried, if she wants to make that space she certainly isn't making it in the youtube comments. There are other ways to deal with trolls. Please stop acting like she's willing to engage with people with strong disagreements on youtube. I know that she isn't.

I'd argue that if she's making video series like this then she is aware that she is encoring the wrath of people with potentially differing opinions and again I have seen some people strongly disagree with her position in the past manage to get into the comments. Frankly I actually like the idea of censoring comments, this whole reaction has made it pretty clear why it's a good idea.
Filter out the shit heads piece by piece. I can get behind that.

[quote]I don't think it's fine and dandy.

My point was that if people are calling her a feminazi bitch who should get raped like the youtube commentors (and some forum goers are) then I will call them like I see them.
I mean for what it's worth you seem level headed and reasonable, so don't think I'm addressing it to you.

Father Time:

Vrex360:

Again the fact that this is the first time she's made a project aimed just at video games and also the first time she's recieved backlash.

This is not the first time she's received backlash I know that for a fact.
This is just the first time she's not censoring the comments, and she's also highlighting some of the worst ones on her website.

It's true but the backlash has never been this severe. She actually used to use the 'mencallmethings' hash tag on twitter to highlight the comments she'd had to censor but I guess this is the first time it got bad enough to warrant public attention.

Anyway can't be replying for a while, getting ready to get on a train to London, so if possible can we postpone further debate until I get the chance?

bringer of illumination:

Skratt:

bringer of illumination:
Okay, I'm done.

If this is what passes for journalism on the Escapist, then the Escapist can go fuck itself.

Goodbye, you won't be seeing me again.

Oh, was the ovendodger comment yours?

Oh for fuck's sake, I knew some smartass would crawl from the woodwork with some shit like this, I knew I said I wouldn't ever comment again, but I'll be fucked if I'm not gonna defend myself.

No, the comment wasn't mine, the fact that I think this kickstarter project is a load of horseshit* is irrelevant to my post, and has nothing to do with her being Jewish.

What I have a problem with is that this article is a piece of garbage of no POSSIBLE interest to anyone.

"OH NO! PEOPLE ARE BEING MEAN AND WACIST ON THE INTERWEBS!!!" You might as well link to any given thread on fucking 4chan and call that "Journalism".

I frankly can't fucking believe that this article was approved.

*Incidentally, if you want to know why I think it's horseshit, this video is a nice place to start:

Hey thanks, I was trying to find this video... :P

Vrex360:

Father Time:

Vrex360:

Again the fact that this is the first time she's made a project aimed just at video games and also the first time she's recieved backlash.

This is not the first time she's received backlash I know that for a fact.
This is just the first time she's not censoring the comments, and she's also highlighting some of the worst ones on her website.

It's true but the backlash has never been this severe. She actually used to use the 'mencallmethings' hash tag on twitter to highlight the comments she'd had to censor but I guess this is the first time it got bad enough to warrant public attention.

Anyway can't be replying for a while, getting ready to get on a train to London, so if possible can we postpone further debate until I get the chance?

I'd say yes but honestly I hate when online debates I'm in drag on for a day or two. Nothing against you.

Oh, feminism. Of course.

image

Everyone come back when you actually understand what "equality" is. And also, for fuck's sake, don't feed trolls, okay? So many of these people posting just want attention, or are acting like spactards on purpose to illicit negative response from you people. I'd wager 60% of the people on that Youtube comments section don't believe in what they're saying in the slightest.

You all look like fools, as far as I'm concerned.

Was it really necessary to quote all those appalling, obscene comments, I wonder...
I didn't know about this project, but in my mind, it's a valid one. She's right to bring these matters to light. I mean, just take a look at the Strong Female Character Flowchart, I dare you to tell me there's nothing wrong with the current state of affairs.

That's pretty discusting.
Although i don't support her either because, well she's asking for 6000 Dollars to do something many people do for free and she will probably still get some money through ads.

JerrytheBullfrog:

Broseph, the entirety of the modern world is about the rights that men have. We are pretty well fucking represented. That is why there is a Women's/Gender Studies department at colleges and not a Men's Studies, because in general *every department* is a Men's Studies department.

...uh..lol. Please explain to me how astrophysics is a Men's Gender Studies department, or how geology is a Men's Gender Studies department.

JerrytheBullfrog:
Feminism is a force for the equality of women, so in that case it is concerned with women's rights. HOWEVER, it also recognizes that sexism and the patriarchy hurt men as well ("boys don't cry," assuming all men are emotionally dead, bloodthirsty brutes, etc). The two are not mutually exclusive.

So in your opinion, feminism is for women's equality and if they help men its a plus but not it's primary intention, correct? If that is how you view feminism, then your right to say that she shouldn't be expected to also focus on male gender issues. However, if I have misread this and your saying feminism is about gender equality, then I see no reason why she shouldn't devote time to male gender issues in video games as well.

JerrytheBullfrog:
HOWEVER, demanding that someone who clearly intends to just do a video *analyzing female characters* also analyze male characters is not the solution. She can absolutely agree that there are harmful male stereotypes (because there are) without wanting to spend her own time and money making a video about them. That's not the point of her project.

Then she is limiting herself.

JerrytheBullfrog:
That's what I mean when I say that screaming WHAT ABOUT TEH MENZ does nobody any favors, because it doesn't. Are there harmful male stereotypes? Yes. Is she obligated to do a video on them, even if she recognizes them as valid? No.

Screaming ABOUT TEH WEMONZ doesn't do much either besides create really long escapist threads.

JerrytheBullfrog:
Make your own damn video if you want it to exist so badly.

No.

Amaror:
That's pretty discusting.
Although i don't support her either because, well she's asking for 6000 Dollars to do something many people do for free and she will probably still get some money through ads.

Yeah, I can't help that feel that one of the comments had at least some validity, in that there's a ton of people who've covered this ground very well, in depth, and for free, and that it does rather feel like she's saying ' if you think men and video games are sexist then I should have money.'

However, I do also feel that the moment you're attacking a person and not their opinions, your argument is invalid. Pick holes in what she's doing, but if you're attacking her for being female, or a jew, or a female gamer, or whatever else, you're doing it wrong and expect to be ignored by anyone with sense, admittedly a minority of those online, it seems.

There's been a similar discussion on Twitter, where politicians like Louise Mensch have been attacked horribly in nasty, sexist, and often threatening, personal ways.

Now, I consider her to be a pretty terrible person with horrible views, and the idea that the Occupy protesters bought tents and coffee, means that they have no reason to protest capitalism is borderline idiotic, but it's her opinions I dislike, not her owning a vagina.

All you do by attacking people for their gender, sexuality, race, etc is strengthen their position.

SenseOfTumour:

Yeah, I can't help that feel that one of the comments had at least some validity, in that there's a ton of people who've covered this ground very well, in depth, and for free, and that it does rather feel like she's saying ' if you think men and video games are sexist then I should have money.'

However, I do also feel that the moment you're attacking a person and not their opinions, your argument is invalid. Pick holes in what she's doing, but if you're attacking her for being female, or a jew, or a female gamer, or whatever else, you're doing it wrong and expect to be ignored by anyone with sense, admittedly a minority of those online, it seems.

There's been a similar discussion on Twitter, where politicians like Louise Mensch have been attacked horribly in nasty, sexist, and often threatening, personal ways.

Now, I consider her to be a pretty terrible person with horrible views, and the idea that the Occupy protesters bought tents and coffee, means that they have no reason to protest capitalism is borderline idiotic, but it's her opinions I dislike, not her owning a vagina.

All you do by attacking people for their gender, sexuality, race, etc is strengthen their position.

Äh ... you got me a little confused here, buddy. Where did i attack her?
I just said that i think the attacks on her are pretty disgusting.
And then i said that while the attacks on her are disgusting i still do not agree or support the kickstarter.
I didn't said anything about her being female (Well, is said "her", but tell me how that is attacking) or a jew, or a female gamer.

JerrytheBullfrog:
snip

The article was crap, apparently rape culture doesn't have to have rape involved? Then it isn't rape culture!

Amaror:

SenseOfTumour:

Yeah,[snip].

Äh ... you got me a little confused here, buddy. Where did i attack her?
I just said that i think the attacks on her are pretty disgusting.
And then i said that while the attacks on her are disgusting i still do not agree or support the kickstarter.
I didn't said anything about her being female (Well, is said "her", but tell me how that is attacking) or a jew, or a female gamer.

Not you, sorry, I meant 'the moment you're attacking a person' to mean, when anyone's attacking a person, wasn't directed at anyone in this thread, but the idiots posting 'whore' comments and rape threats on youtube.

I basically agree that I don't think there's a need to get $6k for a video when people are willing to do this stuff for free, but, I guess that's the point of Kickstarter, if people want to pay, they can, it's quite possible she's manipulating women with the whole 'if you hate sexism then give me money' thing, but then maybe it's not.

Vrex360:
snip

Elitis is on the other side of the map when it comes to best or good.
In febuary i got an email from a friend. He linked me to an article about a teenage girl in Morrocco(i think) that killed herself using rat poison after being forced to wed her rapist. The commentary on this(predominantly conservative site) was appalling in ways that shook me. ME. A mam that views it as a fun hobby to go find horrible news and see what people say about it based upon political views. I burned that link from my memory but i can recite what i did not lock away.

'she deserved it, should have fought harder' from a woman in New york
'serves her right. Should have ran' man in alabama
Course i did find ONE beacon of hope in this shitstorm.
'Cant believe the judge sentenced her to this. So barbaric' man in Kentucky
He was replied with this
'That law is there to protect her, and the US needs one like it. Maybe cut down on the sluts in our schools.'

I would bring more but my sanity might not take re-entry well. point is politics gets way more brutal than video games. You wont find ACTUAL victim blaming to that degree on a video games forum & if you did that person would be hated immensely.
Yahtzee is all one big act. While he does inject seriousness into some talking points in the vids its not meant to be 100% serious. Extra credits may fail at objectivity sometimes but rarely at sticking to facts. Breaches in that tend to get fixed soon after. Point about her intent was that she does the same job without the need for this & i doubt she would need it otherwise. I cited the possibility that if that was her actual living room & not a set, she clearly does not need it.
Ah yes, it was failed premise, failed execution, failed software designer, and a massive A-bomb of fail with the security. that's what screwed it the most.

Eleima:
Was it really necessary to quote all those appalling, obscene comments, I wonder...
I didn't know about this project, but in my mind, it's a valid one. She's right to bring these matters to light. I mean, just take a look at the Strong Female Character Flowchart, I dare you to tell me there's nothing wrong with the current state of affairs.

Well that was pointless.

There's not a ton of 3 dimensional characters especially when you factor in kids shows, comedies and horror movies like this chart does.

And it's got 50 or so tropes to catalogue how women are represented.

So what?

Media that targets female audience has stereotypes of men but you don't see men complaining about it. They just ignore it.
While I may even agree with some of her points, it just feels like she is attacking ALL MEN with them, and so does every other topic similar to this, which is probably the reason for the Youtube comments.
To stop or minimize comments like this it should have been merged with a Kickstarter project attacking male stereotypes in female targeted media and the video should have described both side by side.
Just a few examples of anti-male media. Arkham Asylum and Arkham City have ONLY MALE inmates except female super-villains(if you say both the Asylum and the City were just for men then why were even Poison Ivy, Catwoman and Harly there? come to think of it two of them would actually be weaker in a women's facility as Ivy won't have zombies and Harley won't have Joker), the Dead Island storyline shows all main female characters as brave, heroic and self-sacrificing while even the playable male characters are shown as flawed and weak. KOTR had two cases of cheating one by a male Jedi and the other by a woman both times the man was blamed. And these are just from games. In movies and on TV it gets worse but I won't list it. And I had started a thread asking if there are any movie love triangles with two women and one man(so I could watch it if I mistakenly watch stuff Hunger Games which has a love triangle with two men and one woman), I only received one or two proper titles.

soh45400:
Media that targets female audience has stereotypes of men but you don't see men complaining about it. They just ignore it.

Yeah, no man has ever complained about romantic comedies. Or Twilight.

Naeras:

soh45400:
Media that targets female audience has stereotypes of men but you don't see men complaining about it. They just ignore it.

Yeah, no man has ever complained about romantic comedies. Or Twilight.

Except romantic comedies aren't disliked by men because of how they portray men. It is because they bore them.
Also twilight tends to be hated by men because its poorly written, a bastardization of existing lore, and is degrading more to women than men. Provided shes not actually an sociopath.

Naeras:

soh45400:
Media that targets female audience has stereotypes of men but you don't see men complaining about it. They just ignore it.

Yeah, no man has ever complained about romantic comedies. Or Twilight.

They complain but no proper Youtube video or Kickstarter and the complains do not get enough media attention they are confined to the internet as far as media is concerned. Even the Legend of Korra was ruined by the Twilight syndrome and the first Avatar was one of my favorite shows. And I quoted other examples as well.
And when women complain about male oriented media, men join in. How many women do you see join in the complains about this.

Father Time:

Vrex360:
The gaming community is no longer worth defending.

It isn't, it can honestly go fuck itself. Misogynist obnoxious little douchebags who spam and harass an innocent vlogger

This is youtube. You can find examples of commenters ganging up on people for videos that have nothing to do with video games. So why should the gaming community take flak for this? You see anyone threatening to rape her on gaming forums?

Going by destructiod news this whole shitstorm started in two seperate gaming forums. Even you yourself back it up with the argument

"You expect the gaming community to care about the Amazing Atheist? I can't remember him ever making a video on video games."

So you yourself admit that this whole shitstorm started because she wants to make a video about video games. What do you call the community who cares about video games?

Also, it is not the first time that the precious shitstain that is the gaming community does harass women or defends racism and sexism, not only that but actually tries to protect sexism and racism as part of the gaming community.

So yeah, this is the gaming community.

Why would you try to scathingly critique an interactive medium in a non-interactive form?

Her work risks:
a) getting lost in the noise of reviews and video blogs.
b) not getting through to those who kinda need to see it. Preaching to the choir basically.

I'd love to see a witty, well made Tropes vs Women work, conveying all the themes and hard work in research she describes, but it'd have to have some degree of interactivity as a hook. An indie game, board game, or heck, a tabletop RPG, even with a shorter video series tacked on. But a video critique alone just strikes me as picking the easy medium to work with, and tragically, a missed opportunity to make something truly memorable.

TheKasp:
You have not seen one of her videos and are talking out of your asses. How about you shut up and inform yourselfs about the work of this woman before you start spewing bullshit?

I don't believe in assertions. I watched a couple before posting that, and wasn't surprised to find out that they're about how all men are sexist.

Eleima:
Was it really necessary to quote all those appalling, obscene comments, I wonder...
I didn't know about this project, but in my mind, it's a valid one. She's right to bring these matters to light. I mean, just take a look at the Strong Female Character Flowchart, I dare you to tell me there's nothing wrong with the current state of affairs.

I like how the chart is so stupidly broad that you could fit any character into it.

Stephen Tate:

TheKasp:
You have not seen one of her videos and are talking out of your asses. How about you shut up and inform yourselfs about the work of this woman before you start spewing bullshit?

I don't believe in assertions. I watched a couple before posting that, and wasn't surprised to find out that they're about how all men are sexist.

Then show me those videos because when I watched through them yesterday I failed to find one.

TheKasp:
Then show me those videos because when I watched through them yesterday I failed to find one.

If you can't recognise the prejudice yourself then my sending you a link isn't going to change anything.

I do not agree with her views, simply because I see the stereotypes used in regards to females nothing more than 'playing to the teenage male fantasy' as opposed to anything as extreme as sexism or misogynistic tendencies on behalf of the developer.

That said, there is absolutely no justification for the comments or behaviour shown by some of those commentators, I'd very much like them to have their anonymity taken away and have them opened up to public scrutiny, not that it'd ever happen.

Although one thing that needs to be pointed out: These comments do no say anything in regards to the 'gamer' community, you get bastards like this on youtube videos about pretty much any subject, it's not just limited to this 'culture'. It's more to do with anonymity on the web than anything else.

so....these guys aren't donating their money but they're still pissed and bitching even though they're not going to watch it? Huh, what's that? Oh so that's what a troll is...

Stephen Tate:

TheKasp:
Then show me those videos because when I watched through them yesterday I failed to find one.

If you can't recognise the prejudice yourself then my sending you a link isn't going to change anything.

Actually, yes. I might get a better understanding of what others consider prejudice. Isn't it worth at least one link? :P

People are getting far too angsty on this whole issue.

First, yes the article is feeding the trolls, who are in turn feeding this creature, who is going on about stereotypes while attempting to look as glamorous as she can, managing to stop just short of full blown hypocrisy. So I wouldn't want to give her anything.
Youtube is the ultimate in anonymous hateful one liners, some of which, I admit, do make me laugh, even though the sentiment they portray is archaic and sometimes sickening.
I would have ignored it, since they're obviously just morons who can't quite express their rage in an adequate manner fit for the drivel I have just watched that woman spew. Most of them won't have views anywhere close to these quotes.
There have been lots of articles on the subject she went for, and most are better constructed and less one sided. And now thanks to the over-defensiveness of certain people in the gaming community, she has a whole lot of publicity.

Legion:
I do not agree with her views, simply because I see the stereotypes used in regards to females nothing more than 'playing to the teenage male fantasy' as opposed to anything as extreme as sexism or misogynistic tendencies on behalf of the developer.

But how is this right in a time where the young teenage male just makes out 13% of the gamer audience? Woman aged 18+ count 38% of the audience and are nearly the triple of the "target demographic".

Father Time:
Well that was pointless.
There's not a ton of 3 dimensional characters especially when you factor in kids shows, comedies and horror movies like this chart does.
And it's got 50 or so tropes to catalog how women are represented.
So what?

You're missing the point. The point is that there aren't many strong female characters, since women are most often cast as the damsel in distress, the evil seductress, the cheery sidekick, etc.

TheKasp:

Legion:
I do not agree with her views, simply because I see the stereotypes used in regards to females nothing more than 'playing to the teenage male fantasy' as opposed to anything as extreme as sexism or misogynistic tendencies on behalf of the developer.

But how is this right in a time where the young teenage male just makes out 13% of the gamer audience? Woman aged 18+ count 38% of the audience and are nearly the triple of the "target demographic".

Because we here actually differentiate between core games and farmville.

In other words, because those numbers are bullshit.

I'm sorry but I have a very good reason as to why this kickstarter project should NOT be supported at all and it all can be condensed in the goal as noted by the article.

"explore, analyze and deconstruct some of the most common tropes and stereotypes of female characters in games"

I'm sorry but you DON'T need ANY funding to do any of the following to actually make such a project goal possible.

-Obtaining older games
-Analyzing the time period the game was published with the social norms during those times(no on is starting a kickstarter for a time machine)
-Playing said games to draw an experience
-Understanding the narrative or function from a game design standpoint

Really all-in-all her budget to actually do the bulk of her work SHORT of actually going across the world and interviewing each game developer who was directly involved with the critical game design choices of said women video game characters and artists doesn't cost her anything but one resource and that it time.

If anything despite how poorly the tagline is to attract supporters now with a bias(to which the author here should be badly using the shock of youtubers who trash talk daily much worse than this) the subject here should also be as much as to question to motive of the person who quite literally should be under intense scrutiny who is exactly getting the CASH. Cause for all we know all those investors are going to get burned as they find out the use of her money could be used to make a down payment on her home or to buy a new car.

This is the kind of kickstarter projects that should be put under intense scrutiny and it should be the duty of the Escapist(not the community the staff) to stay on top of this story by doing some good old journalism and make sure she is using that money for what she said for. If the Escapist community wants to get involved they should encourage the kickstarter investors to enforce some financial accountability. Cause if she really wanted she could probably give off some half-ass trope from tv-tropes or steal lines from Rocketbom to make her videos seem like she is doing work.

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