Swedish Courts: Imaginary Children Aren't Real Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 NEXT | |
So Sweden's criminal justice system proves it isn't as backwards as we thought. It's good Lundstrom won. He was only charged for doing his job and the prosecution had a terrible argument against him. | |
Imaginary kids are not real? You should probably tell the United States that next. | |
Well thank God sanity prevailed. In a world where common sense doesn't seem so common anymore, I was honestly not sure how this case would go. Glad to see an innocent man go free. | |
As someone who once (shamefully) supported labeling pornographic pictures of children as Child Porn, I am extremely glad Lundstrom made it out okay. You can't ban one form of free speech without banning all other forms of free speech, unless it's directly harmful to people. | |
I still don't like that kinda porn but ultimately no one gets hurt but it so it shouldn't be considered pedophilia porn or whatever, I've been drinking , shut up. | |
The legal system of my country could now be considered marginally less insane. Great succes! | |
I totally get it. The crimes this person could commit with such images in real life are limited only by your imagination. It's solid logic because we have always prosecuted people based on the fact that at any time or place a person can commit a horrible crime therefor they should be thrown in prison before they have the chance to do so, like the movie Minority Report.
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whatever you think, if he ain't harming anybody it ain't a crime, lol | |
damn you! read my mind, first thought i had when reading that title! OT: while some manga definitely is definitely "childish", there is a ton of it where they are indeed adults, it's just the style/curvatures that make them seem not mature when compared to real life. not to mention, i'm pretty sure he wasn't harming anybody...so always go by "no harm, no foul" in my book. | |
I reiterate what I said before: I may not agree with what he does, but it does not mean he should be punished for something that isn't harming anyone. Nice to see that the justice system came through. | |
Doesn't seem so common? I believe that Deadpool and I will agree to that... | |
so YAY! | |
Don't like that kind of stuff, still glad the guy got off. (See you can dislike something without being a self righteous ass, world. Stop thrusting your dick of opinion onto everyone else without properly considering the ramifications and restrictions your ill constructed beliefs will sow.) | |
Good. If anything, this can help pedophiles release their urges since society shuns them so much. | |
First page and the comments section isn't swarming with loli pics yet, I must admit I'm surprised. | |
"Hey kid, you want this comic book? How bad do you want it?" | |
well 1/3 of it isnt as backwards as we thought. Lets not forget that two lower courts couldn't get their heads out of their asses after all. OT: Im glad he got those charges dropped, was complete bullshit. | |
Hmm, several posts of people affirming that they agree with the ruling. Pffft, that's boring. I offer up a bounty of 57 internets to whomever can build a reasonably sane argument against the ruling. | |
This positive ruling got me no breakfast in bed on a Saturday and now I will have to get up. Thusly I declare that this shameful act of harboring drawn wide-eyed small people like creatures doing oddly explicit and strange things is Illegal. So sayeth me. *taps mug on desk* | |
Thou doest not sayeth? The name of the article alone is a facepalm moment. | |
Let me give it a shot: 1) This ruling may set precedence that anything animated, generated by computers or drawn is not child porn. However, as technology advances the ability to differentiate between CG, or highly realistic drawings (done via computers) may blur the line between real life child pornography and virtual to indistinguishable levels making it hard to rely on the "needs a victim" as a means of differentiating for law enforcement. 2) Virtual reality (I.E. Think virtual reality on the level of the holo decks of star treck) will also come into effect one day at which not only can it be realistic level, but truly can be assuredly virtual and thus the difference between real life child pornography and that of the digital world will be only in the lack of a real victim at which point the ability to know what you're seeing might even come into question. Ok that's the best I can manage while staying sane.. *Edited for formatting | |
Good to hear that Sweden isn't completely insanse. I felt sorry for this guy being convicted because of the current "pedo scare" thing but im glad he made it out okay. Sweden, I once again like you and think you are pretty cool country. | |
^This. That Iowa or whatever place it was thing still pisses me off. Don't get me wrong, I'm not crazy about that stuff, but it's fucking cartoons, it's not real and doesn't harm anyone, just like erotic stories or imagination and I don't think you should be able to make those illegal in a billion years. Now, if they have proof that the art was based on nude posing of children (considering it's anime/manga/whatever, I'll add a 'lol' to that) or that any child was harmed by it, sure, but that's a whole different goddamn crime. | |
Huh, Sweden isn't completely insane. Well, I guess you learn something every day. | |
It's kinda good that this ruling happened, otherwise someone would have to go around arresting classical art gallery owners for all those flying naked babies that float around those olde paintings. Also, freedom and all that. | |
This phrasing is hilarious, doubly so due to it being essentially the perfect rock solid defense. I like to think that the prosecution just felt like a massive moron when he realized his case had absolutely no grounds whatsoever. | |
Holy shit, So the Supreme Court in my country actully has some common sense. Yay!
No, It still sounds as insane in swedish. | |
how could we be so naive! its all a lie. A LIE! illuminati! | |
It doesn't exactly legalize all fictional drawings, but it does limit the scope of criminalization quite significantly. According to the premises, at least when firmly rooted in a cultural tradition as manga drawings are, only drawings which are "realistic" are held to be criminal. Meaning that ordinary images in the manga art style are presumably legal. The translator had a single image deemed to be realistic, but was acquitted due to his status of expert. Without having actually seen what the court considered "realistic" though, and it perhaps being somewhat unclear whether clearly fictional drawings without any cultural rooting are legal, so it's hard to say that this ruling truly legitimize such drawings. There's really nothing in the premises on any guidelines on what is to be considered "realistic" (it probably have to do with anatomical correctness or something, but it's ultimately anyone's guess), so if you're a Swede with strange urges you should probably still stay away. The court deserves praise for reaching the most reasonable result it could within the phrasing of a messed up law though. Unlike the hyperbolically puritanical Swedish legislators, it assigns proper weight to Freedom of Speech. | |
From the article, it does sound
I'm aware that most wants to do awful things to other people aren't choices, hence wants. On the other hand I'd need some proof that this helps them. It could be easily argued the other way. For example for angry people, 'releasing their anger' like people advise has been proven to often make them more angry people. Maybe we should be fighting our basic nature at all levels and this is a slippery slope | |
aaaaand they're not even imaginary kids... they're imaginary characters that despite their age merely LOOK like imaginary kids. but... ah, he got off, i'll let sleeping dogs lie... | |
Paedophilia is rooted in human sexuality and is therefore unchangeable, which means that suppressing it can psychologically do more harm than good. In the same idea, having a release for sexual urges has a positive result as most people can logically see that masturbation has an effect on decreasing your sexual urge for a period of time. Hence the whole blue balls thing. So saying that anyone who is attracted to children is going to have sex with children and doesn't actually seek to release those urges in a non-harmful way is somewhat similar to how some of the crazier feminists claim that all males are rapists. | |
First you'd have to get a few senators and congresscreatures without an imaginary extra father appointed. | |
Before I get the police on me by doing some research on this stuff, are you a psychologist whose studied this kind of thing, or just a clever informed person? EDIT: No worries, found out, it turns out that studies show that exposureto pornography can icnrease rates of sexual assault, also
So yes although it's not conclusive there is a huge body of evidence that perusual of pornography leads to increases and rape and child molesting.
I wanted to bring you in again because I found research that suggests that exposure to child pornography actually does lead to an increase in child molesting. The research is not fully conclusive but I haven't found any studies that suggest it would decrease sexual urges | |
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Swedish Courts: Imaginary Children Aren't Real
The Swedish Supreme Court has acquitted manga translator, Simon Lundström.
Lundström was convicted of possessing child pornography back in 2010, when authorities found suggestive pictures of bobble-headed, cartoon minors on his personal computer. He disputed the ruling, arguing that you need children for child pornography and that drawings aren't children, but his conviction was upheld by two lower courts, one of which reduced his punishment to a $780 fine and an order that he could no longer offer his services as a "manga expert."
In both trials, the prosecution argued that the images Lundström possessed could be used to entice children into performing sexual acts, and that real children could have been used as models for the drawings. I'm going to assume that last argument sounded marginally less insane in the original Swedish.
Though the Supreme court insisted that the 39 images Lundström was being charged for did constitute pornographic representations of children, it was forced to admit that there is a distinction between fictional children and their aggravating, real-life counterparts. It also claimed one of the images was realistic enough to constitute full blown child pornography, but admitted that prosecuting Lundström on those grounds would violate his freedom of expression.
"The criminalization of possession of the drawings would otherwise exceed what is necessary with regard to the purpose which has led to the restriction on freedom of expression and freedom of information," read a statement from the court.
Lundström later released a statement to the press:
"I'm obviously very relieved, in part because it makes life easier for me personally, but most of all I'm generally relieved for Sweden as a whole," he said. It would have been very hard for me to relate to Sweden as a country if it turned out to be a place that prohibited certain expressions of the imagination."
Source: SMP thanks to awesomeClaw
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