Super Smash Bros. is Done With New Characters

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Ghonzor:

ToastiestZombie:

You're kind of sounding like you would only really fully care about the game if it were released on something like the Xbox or PS3. Because if so, then you really don't care about the franchise at all don't you?

I've been playing SSB since the original on the N64. It was one of my favorite games as a kid, and Melee was spectacular. I don't prefer any console really, they all have their merits. I do know that I will never buy a Wii U because it just seems silly right now, and a Smash Bros. game on the 3DS seems like it won't be as fleshed out as the console version. I'm really just being silly by poking fun at the Wii U and feigning apathy. I'd love to see the new game be fantastic, I'm just not going to get my hopes up this time around.

But think about it. The Wii U has the Pro controller, which doesn't have the screen if you don't like it. So use that if SSB comes out for it. Also think about it. The new SSB will be made by the legends of fighting games, Namco Bandai, and will be the first one on a fully HD console. It will also probably be the first one with proper, lag free online because it's not being made by Nintendo anymore. Unless they do something REALLY bad to the series, I see no reason why a die hard fan of SSB such as yourself shouldn't get a Wii U just for the game. The Gamecube in my eyes was shit, and in my eyes the Wii U is already looking better than it. Yet people still bought the console just to play Melee.

But really, all this discussion is stupid. We're talking about a game that's VERY early in development and hasn't even got a trailer yet.

ToastiestZombie:

FantomOmega:
image

They wont add any more characters because of the rush to complete the game for the Wii U Launch, lets be honest Nintendo that's the truth right?

Nope, they've said that it won't be released by launch and there's been no showing even though every Wii U launch game has been shown so far. Also, they didn't say they won't add any more characters. They said they won't be making the roster much bigger. It doesn't count out them swapping. Finally, Sakurai only finished Kid Icarus: Uprising about half a year ago, so with the Wii U launch being this Christmas I really don't see it being out by then.

Point taken, but keep in mind that they have touted this game during E3 so at least next year would imply this game being released since the Exclusives will have to define the system at launch since the other 3rd party games set for the Wii U have already been released or going to be released multiplatform

It's hard to believe Reggie said that "gamers are insatiable" in a previous announcement then this present announcement reflects on how Nintendo will respond to those fan "expectations"

It makes you feel that they wont even "try" to get more people interested since this news just says "same as before which is great but not to expect much more than that"

Why is Nintendo so hard pressed to create more than TWO in-house games at a time!? If you got the money to waste on a new system that could be redundant in two years why not have more studios to work on more titles simultaneously instead on risking on outsourcing and ruining your franchises like Metroid the other M?

Their business model is far too "conservative" for this current "core" gaming market, we want confidence not assurances that are in fact apologies at what they did not ADD to the game

Ah, but this doesn't necessarily mean they won't have new characters! Hopefully they'll trade out some of those clones for some franchises that haven't had an appearance yet.

My hopes for a Golden Sun representative are still alive.

*sigh*
Sakurai, Y U NO SHUT UP? Whatever you say, people are gonna either twist your words right in your mouth or rage for no apparent reason. How about developing about a third of the game before even commenting anything about it? Also, the hype with brawl was ridiculous but now it's getting out of hand. I love me smashing some brothers but really... really? Ain't there any recent games worth talking about? Oh... it's july... so I guess not (unless we're counting fucking Kingdom Heart NOT 3)

In regards to the news... I know it's a slow gaming month but is there NOTHING more interesting to talk about ? Please? I'll even play RPS against the robot hand until I win!

FantomOmega:
Snip

Well, I would say their first party launch line-up is pretty decent.

Pikmin 3, Super Mario Bros U and Nintendo Land. Nintendo Land for the casuals, SMBU for the Nintendo fans who will buy it day one and Pikmin 3 for everyone else. Also, they're actually working on quite a lot of titles right now. Those three above, Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Animal Crossing 3DS, NSMB2, Wii Fit U, Luigi's Mansion 2 and a few more I probably can't remember.

Also, they've got ZombiU, which is looking to be good. Also the Lego Grand Theft Auto game looks awesome. Same with Project100, or whatever that mysterious game is called. And pretty much most of the game releases coming out around the time of the launch are coming out for the Wii U too.

To be frank, the Wii U's launch line-up is pretty damn good compared to the Xbox 360's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_launch which only two notable titles were CoD 2 and Condemned. And the PS3's launch line-up was just abysmal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_launch with it's main titles being Resistance and Riiidddggee Raaaccceeerrr!

This is kind of dumb, as other have said, They themselves don't want Smash Bros. to be a serious competitive fighter, but all of a sudden balance is now there concern. The majority of fans could care less for balance they just want more characters, this is honestly not a very smart move on their part.

I also have to agree with the others that the clone characters like falco and Wolf should just be an alternate skin with different voices for the characters there based off. Of course not for Ganon, heshould be given a new moveset entirely. This would leave room for a few new characters(and Mewtwo's return).

Aww really. I was so hoping Dimentio from Super Paper Mario could be put into the game. He's such an awesome villain when though the game mechanics made the everything in the game easy to beat. But he's still so awesome.

Ciao for now.

I grow increasingly tired of people accusing Brawl of having clones. There were NO clones in Brawl. The star fox characters had similar B-moves, but had incredibly different A-move sets and play styles.

ToastiestZombie:

monkey_man:
Or you know, you could stop re-releasing the same game over and over again and come up with a new gameplay or style or something. Then again it's Nintendo, so I strongly doubt that'll happen soon.

Oh goddamnit, I fucking hate comments like this. I'm not saying that Nintendo's games are always developed to make cornerstones of innovation. But seriously, look at the massive creativity in Super Mario Galaxy, Pikmin, Skyward Sword and Smash Bros compared to the CoD series, or any bloody series for that matter. What do you expect Nintendo to do? Make Mario into a third person adventure game? Completely seperating it from its roots. Or make Super Smash Bros into another generic fighter with complicated button combinations?

o_o Dude, it was a sarcastically posted comment, I had no intention of causing anger, it's just that it's getting kinda stale, rereleasing the same game over and over again, surely this will come to an end one day? Just for the sake of sanity? [And I do believe there already have been 3d/third person mario's, and Mario's an adventure game, so what's your point?]

oh dear oh dear. Anyway, I never really liked brawl that much, it's a bit of a clusterf*ck. I just hope it'll be an original one, just for the sake of the internets. I still doubt that though, a change of scenery isn't much of a sequel, more of an add-on if you ask me.
And my comment was directed to all of the cloned games from today, not just Brawl, it was just an example for me to rant about what I believe is wrong with the gaming industry.
This is exactly why I delete most of my posts before actually posting them, they have a tendency to blow up. Captcha: zombie prom, oh great, now we've got that as well. brilliant.

[edit]
Also, Brawl is basically a generic fighter, and there's almost no creativity in the re-releasing of the same game, hence the re-release title it gets. A sequel is only good if it uses the original as a stepping stone, not if it wallows in it like something dead.
I refuse to feel bad because of Nintendo, just because they [mostly] deserve it

reiem531:
I grow increasingly tired of people accusing Brawl of having clones. There were NO clones in Brawl. The star fox characters had similar B-moves, but had incredibly different A-move sets and play styles.

Fox and Falco were not all THAT different but wolf was definitely different. The average player would not notice all that much difference between Fox and Falco. I know me and my friends could point out a ton of differences but they are all small and at the end of the day they really are incredibly close and are just clones who had changes made to help set each other apart.

monkey_man:

ToastiestZombie:

monkey_man:
Or you know, you could stop re-releasing the same game over and over again and come up with a new gameplay or style or something. Then again it's Nintendo, so I strongly doubt that'll happen soon.

Oh goddamnit, I fucking hate comments like this. I'm not saying that Nintendo's games are always developed to make cornerstones of innovation. But seriously, look at the massive creativity in Super Mario Galaxy, Pikmin, Skyward Sword and Smash Bros compared to the CoD series, or any bloody series for that matter. What do you expect Nintendo to do? Make Mario into a third person adventure game? Completely seperating it from its roots. Or make Super Smash Bros into another generic fighter with complicated button combinations?

o_o Dude, it was a sarcastically posted comment, I had no intention of causing anger, it's just that it's getting kinda stale, rereleasing the same game over and over again, surely this will come to an end one day? Just for the sake of sanity? [And I do believe there already have been 3d/third person mario's, and Mario's an adventure game, so what's your point?]

oh dear oh dear. Anyway, I never really liked brawl that much, it's a bit of a clusterf*ck. I just hope it'll be an original one, just for the sake of the internets. I still doubt that though, a change of scenery isn't much of a sequel, more of an add-on if you ask me.
And my comment was directed to all of the cloned games from today, not just Brawl, it was just an example for me to rant about what I believe is wrong with the gaming industry.
This is exactly why I delete most of my posts before actually posting them, they have a tendency to blow up. Captcha: zombie prom, oh great, now we've got that as well. brilliant.

You've really got high hopes for damn sequels don't you. Name five games that have come out the past ten years that are sequels made by the same company that are basically completely different games set in the same universe. And no, Fallout 3 doesn't count because it was made by Bethesda, not Interplay. Go on... do it.

By your logic Half Life 2 should be an add on because hey, it's just a change of scenery and a new story. I mean, they even kept the same shooting mechanic as always and kept the puzzle/FPS gameplay. Same with Mass Effect 2 and 3, and Skyrim. They should all be add-ons because they keep the same gameplay, don't they? Heck, Mass Effect 2 and 3 are in the same storyline! What the fuck were Bioware thinking! I guess we can't even play Assasins Creed 3, or Rome Total War 2 because they're actually making an add on seem like a sequel. What is up with developers these days, really I think we should demand that every single sequel be in a completely different genre with the characters from the first game slapped on! New IPs for that sort of stuff... bah. Heck, why do we even have genres anyway? Doom should of been an add on for Wolfenstein because it's still shooting enemies through maze like levels! I think every single new game should invent their own genre!

That is what you sound like to me.

That's the right move to make. New characters can always be added at any time but it doesn't necessarily make a better game. Brawl wasn't a bad game by any means and had enough content to justify it being a new game but I'd much rather see a change equivalent to SSB -> SSBM than SSBM -> SSBB.

That said though...include Midna and they can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned.

Sakurai talks about game balance? Well, isn't that cute!

...As long as my Ganny is still there I won't mind if they remove or change the clone characters...

This article is stupid. They have nearly 700 pokemon to choose from, and plenty of popular unused characters.

Smash Bros 1 had 12 characters.
Melee had 26 characters.
Brawl had 39 characters.
The new one is likely to have around 45.

I love it when someone on the development team of a major game actually has no idea why people like their games. As cute as this is, it is also really scary because it is the first sign of a lackluster sequel. So tell me this: if it has the same cast as the wii version, then what the HELL is the point!? Just to use the wiiU controller? Dude... you are setting yourself up for failure before you've even started. Don't pretend that smash bros was ever a complex or serious fighting game that needs to retain a strategic balance. People just played it to pit (insert character here) against (insert character here). That is the entire appeal of your game, you better keep giving us characters, otherwise no one will buy the new versions every time they come out.

Bzz-nn-wha-huh-BWAH?!

But... but...! What about Megaman? And all the other various awesome characters they could add? NINTENDO, WHYYYY?! Q_Q

I don't want more characters, I just want NEW characters. Replace all but the originals, and we're good.

I mean, that's most of the fun of getting a new smash bros- the different playstyles you'll be able to experience. Where's my Marina?

ZigTheHunter:
This is kind of dumb, as other have said, They themselves don't want Smash Bros. to be a serious competitive fighter, but all of a sudden balance is now there concern. The majority of fans could care less for balance they just want more characters, this is honestly not a very smart move on their part.

I also have to agree with the others that the clone characters like falco and Wolf should just be an alternate skin with different voices for the characters there based off. Of course not for Ganon, heshould be given a new moveset entirely. This would leave room for a few new characters(and Mewtwo's return).

Actually you'll find a majority of fans who loved SSM hated SSB for completely throwing any balance out the window. It destroyed a very active competitive scene because Sakurai decided that making the game appeal to casual gamers was the way to go. it was the reason why the game is considered by and large a massive disappointment

Just look up videos like Wombo Combo or any videos starring Kens Marth and you'll see just how much depth there was to the game. It didn't need long complicated combos, it encouraged you to use the stages and use the basic moves in the most efficient ways possible.
SSB destroyed all that and I have very little faith that Sakurai can ever fix the damage he caused for the series

To be honest, I hope they don't actually take out Wolf and Falco, just change their moves around a little. I think most of the clones are more different than people give them credit for. Case in point, I'm great with Wolf but absolutely suck with Falco and Fox.

I just want Simon Belmont, Bomberman. It would be awesome to have Ridley, K. Rool and Megaman (maybe Protoman, if not a clone, and Dr. Wily) too. If they could bring Mewtwo back, that would be a nice plus. After that, they can spend the rest of their time balancing. I'm willing to sacrifice Story Mode in order to have these characters. Also, get rid of the fucking Tripping (or at least make it optional, or not random) and give me back L-Cancel (or make it optional, also).
All the characters I want were present in games for Nintendo consoles, so I don't imagine it would be much trouble to add them to the game. Come one, guys! Castlevania, Bomberman and Megaman are classics!

Also, Ganondorf could finally fight like the mage/swordsman that he is, for a change. Why the hell did they give him Falcon's moves of all the things they could clone?! Yes, Warlock Punch is hilarious, but I would rather use that sweet shiny sword he keeps taunting us with.

They need another Fire Emblem character. GIVE ME HECTOR NOW!!!

Congratz to the author for the "Most misleading title of the year" award. Here, take this internetz as your reward.
He didn't say they won't have a bigger roster for sure, but ok, I could overlook that. But where the hell do you see that they won't change any character from the current roster?

Also, it seems like some people haven't played SSBB for more than 10 minutes. Mario and Luigi clones? DA FUQ? Except the similar LOOKING B and UP-B moves, they play and look completely different.

Fox and Wolf? Really? Same as for Mario and Luigi. B and UP-B look similar, but also work similar to an extend, there rest works so different that they promote completely different play styles.
Almost all Falcon moves look similar, but they act differently. They promote a different playstyle.

I do agree that they could change Falco's move set to look a bit more different, but calling him a clone is a bit to far. He is similar looking, but different playstyle.

Ness and Lucas... same as Mario and Luigi.

The only character that I would like to see a complete makeover is Ganondorf. He is a Mage/Swordsman. What the hell is he doing with C.Falcon's mutated move set.

Character that promote a completely different playstyle, almost all moves work and look completely different are called clones on the Escapist. I need to write this down. Could be useful.
Oh yeah, CoD is a clone of Zelda. You have a guy running and shooting at the enemy (Link/bow). Lets ignore the "subtle" differences.

And to people saying balance is unimportant in SSB games. could you please tell my what SSBB is considered to be FAR inferior to SSBM? SSBB has 35 character, Melee had 25. Brawl has much better graphics, more stages, the decent stage builder, great single player campaign... Brawl is superior in almost every aspect except balance (and random tripping). So how come it's considered an inferior game? Seems like balance player a bigger role than any other part of the game.

I definitely agree that a lot of the characters are just clones and could be replaced with skins, but I wonder why nobody mentioned jigglypuff as being a clone of kirby?
Luigi could be a skin for Mario
Falco and Wolf could be skins of Fox
Toon link could be a skin of Link
Shadow and Knuckles could be skins of Sonic

But I would like to see Lloyd from Tales, and the black knight from Fire Emblem
Travis Touchdown
Megaman and Zero - thinking spaceage Link with a cannon instead of a bow
maybe even a battalion wars group fighter like pikmin and olimar were
king k. rool (and his different reincarnations could be skins)
heck paper bowser from paper mario could also be a skin but he has the star rod

basically, I just believe that if a hero from a big name Nintendo game is going to be included, then either a sidekick character that was just as big, or the villain could also be included like how ganondorf, zelda, and link are grouped or mario, peach, and bowser are done. but midna also should be there and maybe vaati from minish cap - heck even the four-swords links could be included as the final smash thing of toon link

EDIT: felt the need to add that Zant could be a skin of ganondorf, and baby boswer could also be a new character with a transformation similar to zelda in which he becomes shadow mario with the paint brush, Andross could be included instead of a background arena add-on

BiH-Kira:

And to people saying balance is unimportant in SSB games. could you please tell my what SSBB is considered to be FAR inferior to SSBM? SSBB has 35 character, Melee had 25. Brawl has much better graphics, more stages, the decent stage builder, great single player campaign... Brawl is superior in almost every aspect except balance (and random tripping). So how come it's considered an inferior game? Seems like balance player a bigger role than any other part of the game.

While I don't disagree with everything else you've said, I'd just like to point out that as a person who couldn't care less about the "competitive" fighting scene for Super Smash Bros. if I got paid to not care about it, balance is incredibly unimportant to me. To me, a singular blip of a statistic in a sea of similar statistics, Brawl was the superior game apart from the inclusion of tripping.

Anyway, OT: This is, indeed, a very misleading title, and poor form for it too. Just because they may not be adding new characters doesn't mean they might not be swapping old characters for new ones. Though I agree with many of the previous posts that certain characters could be combined into different skins that use their slightly altered move-sets (Link, Toon Link, Young Link), and that Ganondorf should finally be able to freaking use his sword and sorcery powers. Although I'm fine with them keeping Ganon Punch.

Mike Kayatta:
So, I read "In terms of quantity, we've probably already reached the limit of what's feasible. I think a change of direction may be what's needed" as "We'll still have 35 characters, but they won't be the same 35." If that's the case, that doesn't seem like a huge deal. Some of the characters included were more for "hey, look; it's your favoritest Nintendo dude!" more than creating actually viable options for even moderately skilled players.

Basically, I don't think we won't see new characters, I just think the ones that we do see will replace some of the others.

Personally, I would be all for downgrading the "clones" to skins, and dialing back the roster to 25 really well-thought-out, balanced fighters. Then again, I was severely disappointed with Brawl, so without knowing what direction Nintendo is taking the series this time around, it's hard to say what the best move is.

Oh...well, that actually makes sense. In that case, I would get the game.

If that's the case, I can see people complaining about the removal of certain characters (Much like everyone is doing with Mewtwo) but it's been done before, so what the heck? And this might make each character more unique at the same time it will make the whole roster more balanced. Still, I can think of a couple of characters either people rarely use, are not that popular or are just simply there for hardcore Nintendo fans (Right, Ice Climbers?)

Anyway, when Snake made it into the roster, it broke all rules regarding Nintendo-exclusive characters. So...why don't we add Keno? Or Megaman? Maybe even Protoman to counter him? Bomberman can come too! Heck, even Simon Belmont from the first Castlevania. If we're going for forgotten NES stars, then they're good candidates (Unlike you, Ice Climbers!).

I think 35-40 characters is a good roster size, but I have to say in Brawl, the "clone" characters did not play like each other at all. Barring the lazy Final Smash copy-paste between Fox/Falco/Wolf and Link/Toon Link, the characters performed differently in an extremely tangible way. Link plays a poor aerial game and is considerably slower than his zippy toon counterpart. Toon Link is an aerial monster and zones like a boss with much faster moves. Just one look a tier list can show you how different performance can be between two "clone" characters.

That said, either Falco or Wolf could stand to be excised, Ike might get changed into Chrome as the "current gen Fire Emblem guy", Ganondorf could use a completely different moveset that more faithfully portrays his combat in his games, and Lucas might be phased out since his relevance is so low to the overseas crowd, despite being a fun character in Brawl. Link is probably going to have an appearance update into Skyward Sword Link, and maybe they won't make him as heavy of a character as he was in his Twilight Princess incarnation. They could even change up his moves to reflect new items (Beetle/Whip instead of the Boomerang, aimable or faster bow, rolling bombs?), while keeping Toon Link as-is.

Marter:
If fan-based hacks can balance the gameplay with the current roster, surely Nintendo should be able to balance it even with a larger roster considering how much more easily they can tamper with the game.

Fans aren't on a clock to meet deadlines.
The quality of their work is limited only by their patience (core programming notwithstanding).

Alar:
Bzz-nn-wha-huh-BWAH?!

But... but...! What about Megaman? And all the other various awesome characters they could add? NINTENDO, WHYYYY?! Q_Q

xPixelatedx:
I love it when someone on the development team of a major game actually has no idea why people like their games. As cute as this is, it is also really scary because it is the first sign of a lackluster sequel. So tell me this: if it has the same cast as the wii version, then what the HELL is the point!? Just to use the wiiU controller? Dude... you are setting yourself up for failure before you've even started. Don't pretend that smash bros was ever a complex or serious fighting game that needs to retain a strategic balance. People just played it to pit (insert character here) against (insert character here). That is the entire appeal of your game, you better keep giving us characters, otherwise no one will buy the new versions every time they come out.

And thus we have the fallout of a really misleading article title.

To repeat my post from a page or so back: Sakurai never said there wouldn't be any new characters. He just said that the NUMBER of characters would be similar to that of Brawl: around 35. Under those rules, he could replace the entire roster with 35 new characters and still have those rules apply if he wanted to. There's nothing to be worried about.

ToastiestZombie:

PortalThinker113:
This is a REALLY misleading headline. Sakurai never said that there won't be any new characters, or that the character list will be the same as Brawl's. He just said that the NUMBER of characters will likely be similar to that of SSBB. That could imply anything between keeping exactly the same roster or replacing the entire roster with Travis and all the assassins from No More Heroes. Obviously, what SSB4 will actually do will fall in the middle, but saying that this statement implies that "there will be no new characters" is just silly.

I'm all for this move if this means that we're going to see a serious push towards getting rid of clones. Give Ganondorf his own moveset, remove all triple clones at least(Mario/Luigi/Dr. Mario and Fox/Falco/Wolf, I'm looking at you), and tweak some of the balancing issues, and you've really got a winner on your hands. I'm definitely optimistic here.

And for the love of God, at least CONSIDER Travis Touchdown, please? Even Suda51 wants you to!

I agree fully mate. The title should of been something different, right now it's just making people disappointed in something that they don't need to be disappointed in. Also, Travis Touchdown is a possibility seeing as NMH came out pretty much the exact same time as SSB, so they obviously couldn't add him in. So since NMH has been out a while that chance might still be there.

Exactly! And Snake has already been in Smash Bros, so they can't say that he's excluded for being from an M-rated game! Granted, No More Heroes is a wee bit more "not for the kiddies" than Metal Gear Solid is, but the point still stands. We need this to happen!

I agree with the turning multiple characters into skins. It gives room to bring old characters back, keep the ones we have and maybe add a couple or three more.

Sixties Spidey:
...Konami themselves don't have a clue regarding how to handle their stable franchises like Contra or Castlevania.

Konami knows what it is doing with Castlevania. Lords of Shadow was the reboot/breath of fresh air that the series needed.

As much as I love the Castlevania series, with the way things were going before LoS, it wasn't hard to see how the whole series was starting to look a little samey. They may change characters, abilities and weapons, but it always seemed to come down to:

1.)Enter castle.
2.)Kill a few re-skins of old enemies from other iterations, very few new ones.
3.)Kill returning bosses with a couple or so new bosses.
4.)Find Dracula.
5.)Kill Dracula.

I saw the ending of LoS coming a mile away(but not when/setting it took place), but the journey getting there was a blast.

If Symphony of the Night didn't exist, Lords of Shadow would be in my #1 spot on my list of favorite Castlevania games. Basically, they finally brought the series into the 3D realm in a way that didn't suck.

I can't wait for the next game in this reboot story.

I definitely look forward to seeing a more balanced Smash Bros. game. Of course, I know balance has never really been a focus of party games, but why not? If they can make a great party fighting game with balanced characters and a ~35 character selection, I'd say that's sounding pretty awesome; especially if they aim to remove the clone characters (and the concept of having clone characters just being skins sounds extremely awesome).

A nintendo game balanced?

seriously, balance is not on the list when i think Nintendo.

As long as they keep Toon Link and Lucario, I don't give a damn what they keep or pull or swap.

Mewtwo was distinct enough that it could absolutely be a separate character from Lucario, with a few tweaks at least.

They should also get rid of Pokemon Trainer and just have the three individual Pokemon as their own characters.

For an example of character tweaking to make clone characters control differently, take a look at Project M, an indie mod that gives a bunch of Brawl characters new moves and physics and playstyles. It makes Toon Link play very differently from Link, for one thing, and gives Lucario a new combo system and replaces its counter.

Edit: Oh yeah, "balance"? Coming from the developers that added trips into Brawl specifically to keep it from getting too competitive? Yeah, okay.

Balance?

Ever played the Brawl drinking game?
-4 players, 25 lives. Pick a nice moving level like Mushroomy Kingdom.
-Only items are explosives, containers and smash balls. Lots of them.
-You die, you take a drink.

:D

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