Blizzard Admits Diablo III End-Game Failure

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Blizzard Admits Diablo III End-Game Failure

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Blizzard acknowledges that Diablo III does not have "a proper end-game," and says it won't for quite awhile to come.

Whether Diablo III is really as much of a mess as its detractors claim, or if it's just a victim of hype and Blizzard's previously unblemished record of success, is a matter of enthusiastic debate. But even Blizzard admits that it's not perfect, and further (and worse), that fans looking for proper end-game content are likely going to have a long wait on their hands.

"We recognize that the item hunt is just not enough for a long-term sustainable end-game. There are still tons of people playing every day and week, and playing a lot, but eventually they're going to run out of stuff to do (if they haven't already)," Community Manager Micah "Bashiok" Whipple wrote on the Diablo III General Discussion forum. "Diablo III is not World of Warcraft. We aren't going to be able to pump out tons of new systems and content every couple months. There needs to be something else that keeps people engaged, and we know it's not there right now."

"We're working toward 1.0.4, which we're really trying to pack with as many fixes and changes we can to help you guys out (and we'll have a bunch of articles posted with all the details as we get closer), and we're of course working on 1.1 with PvP arenas. I think both those patches will do a lot to give people things to do, and get them excited about playing, but they're not going to be a real end-game solution, at least not what we would expect out of a proper end-game," he continued. "We have some ideas for progression systems, but honestly it's a huge feature if we want to try to do it right, and not something we could envision being possible until well after 1.1 which it itself still a ways out."

Diablo III launched without an end-game, he explained in a separate post, quite simply because Blizzard didn't think it would be needed so quickly. "We believed pre-release that the item hunt would be far more sustainable, and would work to be a proper end-game for quite a while," he wrote. "That didn't turn out to be true, and we recognize that."

Source: Battle.net

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You put in an AUCTION HOUSE and expect the ITEM HUNT to be sustainable?

My question is, what kind of endgame is even really considered an "endgame" for ARPGs? Endless dungeons? PvP? The only games of this type that I have played recently are Torchlight and Diablo 3 so I'm not exactly sure what an endgame would even entail with this genre. What did Diablo 2 do that kept people around for like a decade? and was it even an endgame or did people just play the game over and over with different characters?

It probably says something that I haven't gotten anywhere near the end-game for D3. I quit playing after the fifth time I almost died due to Internet lag IN A SINGLE-PLAYER GAME.

Also, from quite a few forum posts I've read in other places, the higher difficulties have item drop-rates and enemy skills that practically mandate either grouping with other players or hitting the auction house for gear that'll help survival.

Coreless:
My question is, what kind of endgame is even really considered an "endgame" for ARPGs?

This is what I'm wondering as well as someone who hasn't really played much in the genre before. I always thought it was just a matter of grinding, PvP and trying out other character builds that sustained these games in the end. Have I been wrong in this assumption?

The auction house totally kills the item hunt. You don't need to hunt for items you simply need to farm gold. It doesn't help that farming gold is painfully easy. On top of that the items themselves aren't nearly as interesting as they were in D2. They are all relatively generic and only differ because of the difference in the numbers.

Diablo 3 simply has been one screw up after another after another. They couldn't have done a better job of shitting on the Diablo franchise had they outsourced it to Zynga. Diablo 2 has thrived for a decade plus because it is largely everything that Diablo 3 can never hope to be. Blizzard should be wholly ashamed of Diablo 3.

Coreless:
My question is, what kind of endgame is even really considered an "endgame" for ARPGs? Endless dungeons? PvP? The only games of this type that I have played recently are Torchlight and Diablo 3 so I'm not exactly sure what an endgame would even entail with this genre. What did Diablo 2 do that kept people around for like a decade? and was it even an endgame or did people just play the game over and over with different characters?

I kinda agree... Diablo 3 isn't World of warcraft? ummm... no shit? What kept people playing D2 was hunting for items and PvP.

DVS BSTrD:
You put in an AUCTION HOUSE and expect the item hunt to be sustainable?

That kinda ruins the item hunting, so PvP is all thats left?

Here's a thought, how about finally making a patch that allows players to game WITHOUT BEING ONLINE ALL THE TIME?! I have no interest in making a diablo account, a battle.net account and I have no interest in having the game lag and be tied to the whims of my (relatively poor) internet connection.

Hence, no sale. Do something Blizzard. It's not your end game that's broken. It's your GAME.

The Rogue Wolf:
It probably says something that I haven't gotten anywhere near the end-game for D3. I quit playing after the fifth time I almost died due to Internet lag IN A SINGLE-PLAYER GAME.

Also, from quite a few forum posts I've read in other places, the higher difficulties have item drop-rates and enemy skills that practically mandate either grouping with other players or hitting the auction house for gear that'll help survival.

Pretty much, once you get to Inferno the difficulty (depending on your class) is time, it becomes nothing but watching the AH and gold farming. I've pretty much hit a brick wall with Act 2 on my Barb, the gear I need never drops or when the it does drop its mostly worthless for my class. I think out of about 60-70 rare drops I find something that might be usable but not really good enough to help push me further.

SpiderJerusalem:
Here's a thought, how about finally making a patch that allows players to game WITHOUT BEING ONLINE ALL THE TIME?! I have no interest in making a diablo account, a battle.net account and I have no interest in having the game lag and be tied to the whims of my (relatively poor) internet connection.

Hence, no sale. Do something Blizzard. It's not your end game that's broken. It's your GAME.

Hey now, Blizzard did do something! They gave us all a ton of good reasons to buy Torchlight II.

Having never played D2 and haven't played D3 it doesn't matter to me, but I am curious about what 'end game' means in these types of dungeon crawlers? What does D2 have that D3 doesn't? I thought the 'end game' in these things was just repeatably grinding the high level dungeons over and over for RNG-stat loot, so it will take a really long time to get the perfect gear, hence the long play time. Both games have this as far as I'm aware.

So what's different with D2 apart from the auction house?

"We recognize that we fucked up, several times, can you get off our ass now?"
No Blizzard. I'm still pissed off.

SpiderJerusalem:
Here's a thought, how about finally making a patch that allows players to game WITHOUT BEING ONLINE ALL THE TIME?! I have no interest in making a diablo account, a battle.net account and I have no interest in having the game lag and be tied to the whims of my (relatively poor) internet connection.

Hence, no sale. Do something Blizzard. It's not your end game that's broken. It's your GAME.

The game is broken because your internet connection sucks?

OT: That's fine by me, I stopped playing after I completed the game on Normal and have only just gone back to it and I'm still playing through Nightmare, so I still have plenty of stuff to do.

DVS BSTrD:
You put in an AUCTION HOUSE and expect the item hunt to be sustainable?

This was instantly my thought as well. I quite enjoy the game but find that even the stuff you can get by crafting is often more than enough to give you success (at least on the initial difficulty, I haven't played enough to advance past that yet so final results may be different). I haven't used the AH and don't plan to, but I've heard enough from enough people to know how game breaking it must be.

So, yeah, when you put in not only one but two systems that freely and nearly completely overstep the "loot hunt" aspect of the game, is there really any wonder why the loot hunting isn't that compelling?

That said, I look forward to seeing why they do decide to do in the future. There's really no way for them to just instantly not have the AH, so it will be interesting to see what they try.

One a side note, I highly doubt PvP will be that exciting either given that players who have geared up via the AH will be heads and shoulders above anyone who hasn't min/max'ed themselves that way anyway.

Most of your game's a failure, Blizzard. Learn from this and do better next time.

*buys Torchlight 2*

Kungfu_Teddybear:

SpiderJerusalem:
Here's a thought, how about finally making a patch that allows players to game WITHOUT BEING ONLINE ALL THE TIME?! I have no interest in making a diablo account, a battle.net account and I have no interest in having the game lag and be tied to the whims of my (relatively poor) internet connection.

Hence, no sale. Do something Blizzard. It's not your end game that's broken. It's your GAME.

The game is broken because your internet connection sucks?

The game is broken because it treats the players like criminals, has crappy servers that won't allow people online on a whim and, on top of it all, if you dare to buy a digital copy, you're not going to get to play it for three days after the purchase because they want to validate it due to the ridiculous auction house.

Funny, the term "end game" now means the part of the game that Never Ends.

Oxymorons.

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Just one dumb choice, after another, after another, then denying it all over again.

SpiderJerusalem:

Kungfu_Teddybear:

SpiderJerusalem:
Here's a thought, how about finally making a patch that allows players to game WITHOUT BEING ONLINE ALL THE TIME?! I have no interest in making a diablo account, a battle.net account and I have no interest in having the game lag and be tied to the whims of my (relatively poor) internet connection.

Hence, no sale. Do something Blizzard. It's not your end game that's broken. It's your GAME.

The game is broken because your internet connection sucks?

The game is broken because it treats the players like criminals, has crappy servers that won't allow people online on a whim and, on top of it all, if you dare to buy a digital copy, you're not going to get to play it for three days after the purchase because they want to validate it due to the ridiculous auction house.

1. I'm not getting how it treats the players like criminals.

2. I don't think anyone is experiencing any logging issues anymore because that issue was sorted.

3. They stopped doing that stupid thing where it caps you for 3 days if you bought a digital version.

The game works just fine, it's not broken.

Kungfu_Teddybear:

SpiderJerusalem:

Kungfu_Teddybear:
The game is broken because your internet connection sucks?

The game is broken because it treats the players like criminals, has crappy servers that won't allow people online on a whim and, on top of it all, if you dare to buy a digital copy, you're not going to get to play it for three days after the purchase because they want to validate it due to the ridiculous auction house.

1. I'm not getting how it treats the players like criminals.

2. I don't think anyone is experiencing any logging issues anymore because that issue was sorted.

3. They stopped doing that stupid thing where it caps you for 3 days if you bought a digital version.

The game works just fine, it's not broken.

All of these are things that people are still reporting. That they even were there in the first place for what is primarily a SINGLE PLAYER GAME is retarded.

And yes, it treats gamers like criminals by enforcing ridiculous DRM, forcing numerous registrations, constant online presence and multiple checks and passes before one even gets to hope to start the game. In fact, now that the game has been cracked, it seems that the pirates are offering a better service than Blizzard is!

Kungfu_Teddybear:

SpiderJerusalem:

The game is broken because it treats the players like criminals, has crappy servers that won't allow people online on a whim and, on top of it all, if you dare to buy a digital copy, you're not going to get to play it for three days after the purchase because they want to validate it due to the ridiculous auction house.

1. I'm not getting how it treats the players like criminals.

2. I don't think anyone is experiencing any logging issues anymore because that issue was sorted.

3. They stopped doing that stupid thing where it caps you for 3 days if you bought a digital version.

The game works just fine, it's not broken.

If I may interject for a moment, but it seems your exchange of opinions is filled with misunderstanding. The game is not actually broken, it works exactly the way that Blizzard wants it to, but that doesn't mean that it's a good thing.

SpiderJerusalem was merely saying that the auction house is the reason that the game is bad, because it gives Blizzard their 'justification' for implementing a ton of security measures that nobody wants to deal with. Also, you can't sort the issue of people struggling to log into servers if they have terribly inconsistent and unreliable internet connections, I've had to live with that burden for years, it's not fun.

SpiderJerusalem:

Kungfu_Teddybear:

SpiderJerusalem:

The game is broken because it treats the players like criminals, has crappy servers that won't allow people online on a whim and, on top of it all, if you dare to buy a digital copy, you're not going to get to play it for three days after the purchase because they want to validate it due to the ridiculous auction house.

1. I'm not getting how it treats the players like criminals.

2. I don't think anyone is experiencing any logging issues anymore because that issue was sorted.

3. They stopped doing that stupid thing where it caps you for 3 days if you bought a digital version.

The game works just fine, it's not broken.

All of these are things that people are still reporting. That they even were there in the first place for what is primarily a SINGLE PLAYER GAME is retarded.

And yes, it treats gamers like criminals by enforcing ridiculous DRM, forcing numerous registrations, constant online presence and multiple checks and passes before one even gets to hope to start the game. In fact, now that the game has been cracked, it seems that the pirates are offering a better service than Blizzard is!

Well it's not really primarily a single player game is it. Considering they were originally intending to make Diablo III an MMO. Just because the other 2 were single player doesn't mean this one is. Also I'm still not seeing how having to always be online and having to register a battle.net account is "treating players like criminals".

Zeriah:
Having never played D2 and haven't played D3 it doesn't matter to me, but I am curious about what 'end game' means in these types of dungeon crawlers? What does D2 have that D3 doesn't? I thought the 'end game' in these things was just repeatably grinding the high level dungeons over and over for RNG-stat loot, so it will take a really long time to get the perfect gear, hence the long play time. Both games have this as far as I'm aware.

So what's different with D2 apart from the auction house?

As far as I know and heard at least, Diablo 2 didn't have end game either. :P

HamsterPants:

Kungfu_Teddybear:

SpiderJerusalem:

The game is broken because it treats the players like criminals, has crappy servers that won't allow people online on a whim and, on top of it all, if you dare to buy a digital copy, you're not going to get to play it for three days after the purchase because they want to validate it due to the ridiculous auction house.

1. I'm not getting how it treats the players like criminals.

2. I don't think anyone is experiencing any logging issues anymore because that issue was sorted.

3. They stopped doing that stupid thing where it caps you for 3 days if you bought a digital version.

The game works just fine, it's not broken.

If I may interject for a moment, but it seems your exchange of opinions is filled with misunderstanding. The game is not actually broken, it works exactly the way that Blizzard wants it to, but that doesn't mean that it's a good thing.

SpiderJerusalem was merely saying that the auction house is the reason that the game is bad, because it gives Blizzard their 'justification' for implementing a ton of security measures that nobody wants to deal with. Also, you can't sort the issue of people struggling to log into servers if they have terribly inconsistent and unreliable internet connections, I've had to live with that burden for years, it's not fun.

The game isn't bad because of the AH though. Yeah, sure, it's the reason Blizzard are implementing all these dumb security measures, but it's not making the game bad. The AH has nothing to do with how fun the game is. And as for people struggling to log in because of bad internet connections, that's not exactly Blizzards fault. I think people are just getting far too worked up about the always online connection and the AH. Raging over nothing really.

HamsterPants:
Also, you can't sort the issue of people struggling to log into servers if they have terribly inconsistent and unreliable internet connections, I've had to live with that burden for years, it's not fun.

Well then prehaps they shouldn't have bought a game whose 'Minimum Requirements' section flat out states that it requires a stable internet connection if they couldn't guarantee they would have one.

Aeshi:

HamsterPants:
Also, you can't sort the issue of people struggling to log into servers if they have terribly inconsistent and unreliable internet connections, I've had to live with that burden for years, it's not fun.

Well then prehaps they shouldn't have bought a game whose 'Minimum Requirements' section flat out states that it requires a stable internet connection if they couldn't guarantee they would have one.

Oh come on, have a little sympathy for people who have been waiting for this game for years but didn't happen to meet said requirements.

Coreless:
My question is, what kind of endgame is even really considered an "endgame" for ARPGs? Endless dungeons? PvP? The only games of this type that I have played recently are Torchlight and Diablo 3 so I'm not exactly sure what an endgame would even entail with this genre. What did Diablo 2 do that kept people around for like a decade? and was it even an endgame or did people just play the game over and over with different characters?

^This is actually what I was wondering too. Is Diablo 3 open world with some dynamic content? I was under the impression it was an ultimately linear game (in the same sense that say, Dragon Age: Origins was linear, divergent paths, some freedom of choice, but not open world).

So they didn't make an interesting endgame, huh? Too bad they shot themselves in the foot by banning mods. I spent far more time playing Diablo 2 modded (with Median XL) than I did playing vanilla Diablo 2. Looking back on it, vanilla Diablo 2 itself was a pretty insubstantial game compared with the fun and content modding brought.

It's like game developers don't realize that there's a free workforce willing to develop content for good games, given half the chance.

It just goes to show: People have beaten "I Wanna Be The Guy" on Nightmare mode. STOP UNDERESTIMATING PLAYER OBSESSION.

why does Diablo 3 need endgame anyway? shouldn't endgame just be grinding for max level?

Kungfu_Teddybear:
Well it's not really primarily a single player game is it. Considering they were originally intending to make Diablo III an MMO. Just because the other 2 were single player doesn't mean this one is. Also I'm still not seeing how having to always be online and having to register a battle.net account is "treating players like criminals".

Why couldn't it have a single player option? That's the problem. I see absolutely no reason why it couldn't have. Why is it everyone brags that new technology gives us new options (and instantly makes new games better) but instead they take shit out? That's why the complaint is there.

Same with always having to be online, it's another inconvenience. Sure, there will be some fuck wits that love to point out how they've had no internet connection problems, but just like everything else, that doesn't go for everyone, doesn't it? I'm not to keen on registering to anything either but that's just a minor annoyance.

....wow. Every time this game comes up in the news, it's another story about how they failed at something else. Blizzard apparently took a page from GW2 and decided that they wouldn't need an endgame on release, and now they have people who have beaten the game (hardcore or otherwise) and have nothing to do because they also decided to release their unfinished game without any form of PvP. Hopefully now, ANet is looking at this bungled mess and reconsidering their decision somewhat. You don't release a game without a visible endgame, no matter how much content you THINK you've stuffed it with....because it's never enough.

Nice job, Blizzard! You guys trying to start a contest with EA for the coveted award of "Most Bungled Ending to a Franchise Trilogy in Video Game History"?

DVS BSTrD:

That kinda ruins the item hunting, so PvP is all thats left?

Except that Diablo 3 released without PvP, remember?

So if you've beaten the game, you're just shit outta luck for now. :P

What do you mean "nothing to do", wasn't Diablo always about running the same few stages over and over again and gather better and better loot, until you got the best set, and then you began again, but with another character?
Has it ever had another point?

SpiderJerusalem:
Here's a thought, how about finally making a patch that allows players to game WITHOUT BEING ONLINE ALL THE TIME?! I have no interest in making a diablo account, a battle.net account and I have no interest in having the game lag and be tied to the whims of my (relatively poor) internet connection.

Hence, no sale. Do something Blizzard. It's not your end game that's broken. It's your GAME.

Can people PLEASE stop crying about this? The game runs off of Blizzard's servers. Everything from damage numbers to creature spawns and map generation is run off their server. They CAN'T make an offline mode at this point. That ship has sailed. Get over it.

On topic:
I'm not surprised. I've gotten bored of D3 already. Inferno is just a huge brickwall of grinding items to progress slowly. It's more frustrating than fun, even after the nerfs.

I recall playing D2 for ages trying to find awesome items and feeling pretty proud when ever I came across specials. The auction house doesnt remove that directly, as I dont _have_ to use it, but it does however detract from the emotional worth you place on items if you can buy them just as easily from somewhere.

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