Flash Game Makes Players Beat Up "Tropes vs. Women" Creator

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80Maxwell08:

Irridium:

John Funk:

Of course, the great irony here is that the vicious response is not only giving Sarkeesian's cause way more publicity than it would have otherwise gotten, but does more to illustrate the problem of misogyny in nerd/gamer culture way more than a video series ever could.

Because seriously, making a videogame about beating a woman in the face for daring to express the point of view that a male-dominated industry doesn't always treat women and female characters like it should, is kind of just making her point for her.

Said it better than I could.

Seriously, why the hell are people so pissed about her making a video series showing that women aren't portrayed in the best light in games?

Because that's not why they are pissed. If you think I'm for this I'm not and truth be told I don't care for this whole thing one way or another but people do have very valid reasons to be pissed at her. Granted one of the videos I would link isn't really about her but some of the documentaries on kickstarter in general. So I'll just link the one only about her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI&feature=plcp

This pretty much sums a lot of it up and that's just the first part. There's also another topic in the forums here about this linking to Destructiods' article on her where the author of the article points out her ignorance on what she's talking about. The Internet's problem with her isn't she's saying women aren't represented well it's they aren't represented well to her. In the video I linked it shows where she says self confidence and self control are masculine traits so women shouldn't have confidence in themselves in the media. Also it talks about a video she took down with no reasons given which she likes Japan's decision to have women only cars for trains.

If you don't get the problem yet the point of the feminist movement was for equality for women and men not for women to be treated like special snowflakes. By it's definition she isn't a feminist regardless if she calls herself that. She doesn't care for equality she wants women to act how she thinks they should act.

I'm not wondering what the people disagreeing with her smartly problem is, I'm asking the people who are throwing around sexist and Anti-Semitic slurs and who hate her enough to make this game why they're so pissed.

Conn1496:

Fappy:
In before "I don't want to be on this planet anymore" meme.

Seriously though. What the fuck people?

People!? This is newgrouds. 90% of "people" on Newgrounds barely know how to wipe their own arses, nevermind think logically. I do browse Newgrounds, granted, but I still know it's a galactic sized shithole most of the time.

This is true. Its like 4 talented content creators and thousands of 13-year old Sonichu lovers.

I really hope the makers of this thing are proud of themselves...
Will make hating them more guilt free.

This did make me stop and say wow someone really hates this chick, I wonder why ? And thanks to 80Maxwell08 I know, and agree with, why. As for the content of the flash video I couldn't care less. It's the internet and I've seen worse.

And here I thought the world could finally move past the old "Gamers are all single males with neckbeards who are afraid of women" stereotype. Guess not.

John Funk:
Update: The game has been "blammed" by Newgrounds users, effectively removing it from the site. That's probably for the best.

[puts away the apocalypse nuke codes] Good.

This is easily the most sickening thing I've read all day. And now I have to go to work mad... and I work at customer service.

Great.

Irridium:

80Maxwell08:

Irridium:

Said it better than I could.

Seriously, why the hell are people so pissed about her making a video series showing that women aren't portrayed in the best light in games?

Because that's not why they are pissed. If you think I'm for this I'm not and truth be told I don't care for this whole thing one way or another but people do have very valid reasons to be pissed at her. Granted one of the videos I would link isn't really about her but some of the documentaries on kickstarter in general. So I'll just link the one only about her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6gLmcS3-NI&feature=plcp

This pretty much sums a lot of it up and that's just the first part. There's also another topic in the forums here about this linking to Destructiods' article on her where the author of the article points out her ignorance on what she's talking about. The Internet's problem with her isn't she's saying women aren't represented well it's they aren't represented well to her. In the video I linked it shows where she says self confidence and self control are masculine traits so women shouldn't have confidence in themselves in the media. Also it talks about a video she took down with no reasons given which she likes Japan's decision to have women only cars for trains.

If you don't get the problem yet the point of the feminist movement was for equality for women and men not for women to be treated like special snowflakes. By it's definition she isn't a feminist regardless if she calls herself that. She doesn't care for equality she wants women to act how she thinks they should act.

I'm not wondering what the people disagreeing with her smartly problem is, I'm asking the people who are throwing around sexist and Anti-Semitic slurs and who hate her enough to make this game why they're so pissed.

Oh well that I can't answer. Honestly since my post here was only to answer this question and it turns out I didn't I think I'm just going to delete my post now. I don't see anything but bad things coming in this topic so sorry to waste your time.

I find it really hard to develop an opinion when it comes to this; mainly because I can't figure out if people are only considering this some big important controversy because she's a woman who wants to talk about feminism in video games. I guess it's why I just abstain from ever forming opinions when it comes to stuff like this. The recursive logic involved just fries my brain, because you can still be sexist by simply defending her on the idea that people shouldn't be against her on the particular topic because she's a woman.

Though from what I've gathered she has on multiple occasions voiced somewhat flawed ideas of what constitutes a feminist idea. So I'm left wondering, would the "morally correct" side of this debate be to attack the project were it being headed up by a man; some of the stuff she's said on her channel would definitely be considered misogynistic or sexist were it to come from a male.

That being said, I see no reason why she shouldn't be allowed to go ahead with her project. People create biased/uninformed documentaries all the time. If her concept of feminism is as flawed as it's been made out to be then they should just let her make a fool of herself in the documentary. After all, an ignorant person preaching from their soapbox makes an infinitely bigger fool of themselves than a crowd of people trying to keep them off the soapbox in the first place.

How bad does your game have to be to get removed from newgrounds.... Shit. Well anyways, I know nothing of this women or her antics so I can't say I really care about any of this.

Irridium:

Seriously, why the hell are people so pissed about her making a video series showing that women aren't portrayed in the best light in games?

1: She chose games as her targets.
2: She is a feminist.
3: She is a woman.

Each one of the points is enough to make the vocal part of the gaming community go apeshit, now imagine those 3 together.

Phasmal:
The worst thing about this is that I'm not at all surprised.

Sadly to say, I've seen worse things depicting her about this topic. Those guys know how to keep it classy...

This would be terrifying if it wasn't so deliciously ironic.

image

So very, very delicious.

do i agree that the kickstarter was really unnecessary? yeah. does this woman deserve the hate she get? no. not in a long shot.

how stupid you must be to do something like this.

*SIGH*

I find her central premis suspect, and her too wiliing to play the victem card while ignoring context of decisions made. Still, this is just sick. Worse, it doesn't seem to get that it'll just empower her as professional opressed victems thrive on people that prove their point.

Disagree with her? Fine. Keep calm and offer quiet reasonable counterpoints. Don't give her something that she'll just use as an example as a woman beating simulator.

On Topic: Yeah, the gaming community in a nutshell. Saw this happened several times this year already to several women disregarding their position to topics or they contribution to gaming.

The Bioware writer - harassed.
Female participant in a webshow about fighting games - sexual harassed by her own teammates on camera, when the guy was asked about it he defended racism and sexism as a essential part of gaming culture.
One female commentator at E3 for being "popular" actor showing up at E3.
Lets not start about hundreds of topics discussing how a female making a webseries about gaming is just attentionwhoring (had recently a discussion with Mintchip who got also accused of that).

Jorec:

Worgen:
Ugh, haters, they aren't happy unless they go totally off the deep end, really all it does is make them look either really stupid or make the other side look that much better.
image

Room for one more?

There is always more room on the friendship express.
image

Worgen:

Jorec:

Worgen:
Ugh, haters, they aren't happy unless they go totally off the deep end, really all it does is make them look either really stupid or make the other side look that much better.
image

Room for one more?

There is always more room on the friendship express.
image

Yes, just give me a few minutes to pack the essentials and I'll be there!!

Well "Bendilin" at least you've given Sarkeesian a good reason to get back in the kitchen:
To stick YOUR head in the oven.

I actually want to give her even more money now.

I'm sorry John but we both know you are being dishonest here when your opinion becomes "you are proving her point". We both know this is a kneejerk reaction response just like a good deal of the other crap we have seen that actually doesn't offer anything to the discussion.

Also it ignores that her argument that if the video game industry really is sexist then it should be based on the games created in the video game industry, not a solo project on newgrounds.

Which is also ironic considering that on the news reel we have a plea for women to be outright violated, maimed and killed in cold blood by xenomorphs(not exactly the biggest alien fan, saw Aliens when I was young and GTFO). So while one side we have women and a petition to be exactly part of the violence of video games but on the other side we can't tolerate the poorest form of insulting that involves a women being "beaten" up in a flash game. This is an outright double standard.

Also finally one main criticism and outrage here forgoes the logical conclusion of Anita's argument. That if the video game industry in all sectors is really sexist. Then the people working in the video game industry are themselves sexist or have people who are sexist that are making critical decisions when it comes to the publishing of articles to the development of video games.

Take any of the games she claims is to be sexist such as Bastion, Gravity Rush, Assassins Creed, Bayonetta and the like then there needs to be accountability to root out these sexist employees. Does this mean Shigeru Miyamoto is sexist for creating Zelda and Princess Peach/Toadstool who were made into the damsel in distress stereotype? Or how about Sega or Platinum Games cause according to Anita that playing that game makes men want to molest women. Which designer and artists are sexist there? Cause you certainly can't have products that are sexist without sexist people in charge.

Also consider these videos and article when it comes to the whole point of video games and the lack of research Anita actually does in her work.

One more point John, with all due respect this is a crap news story cause all it does is easy outrage and doesn't actually offer the coherent dissent from people who think that Anita is either unqualified to do this project or so incredibly biased. I wanna see some actual journalism here giving the big picture offering actual context. I don't like seeing tabloid crap that does nothing but spark pointless outrage without actual thought or discussion.

http://www.destructoid.com/a-response-to-some-arguments-in-anita-sarkeesian-s-interview-230570.phtml

EDIT: After playing the game and actually reading the text before the actual outrage let me say a couple of things.

1. There is a long into that is actually very clear in the intentions of the actual flash creator about equality in video games and he expresses his opinion that she conned people out of their money and even mentions that lack of integrity in her research to which people have certainly proven that she doesn't do research very well and often misses a lot of the content that she arrives at her opinion.

2. It was actually being clever in the sense that wanting equality in videos means that women are going to get physically hurt. Once again as ugly as it maybe you can't have it both ways. This just takes it while certainly a kneejerk reaction to a logical extreme and women getting hurt isn't something we haven't seen before in video games, movies, and books.

3. All the flash is involves is clicking on the picture as it slowly morphs into other rendered images of people who have been beaten up. Not very gory or over the top, just a slow click click click to get a picture of her "beaten up".

I love the irony in proving the point he is trying to disprove.

"it now includes an interactive videogame where the player is invited to punch her in the face."

I invite anyone to do the same to the creater of this thing.

FogHornG36:
she has a right to say what ever she wants, and make videos about what ever she wants, Totally free speech, but, this goes both ways, people have a right to say what ever they want about her, even if it is not vary nice.

When you put your face, your name, your ideals on the internet you are stepping into harms way, you can't expect people to just play nice, and treat you nice no mater what you say or do. Then again people being an ass to her got her 160,000 dollars, but what she does with that money will show everyone her true colors.

I don't think anyone is saying anyone doesn't have the right to do anything.
But the fact is this doesn't help anyone - not only does it prove her point, and make it that much harder to make a legitimate argument against any point she might bring up, but gains her more attention. Hell you'd almost think that she'd be the one posting this kind of shit if it weren't for the fact that we all already know that people on the internet are in fact, just that stupid.

If you don't like her the best thing to do is just ignore her. Anything else just bring her more attention. Shit like this pretty much can only help her.

Can someone please explain why this is being referred to as a scam? Because if she's actually using the women's rights activists to embezzle money then she deserves a certain amount of harassment

I see no problem with a game about punching someone who annoys you in the face.

OH WAIT! It's a woman? Ban this disgraceful filth!

Meh, if it was about beating a man nobody would care.

Well the Escapist loses some points. It criticises the misogynistic campaign against Feminist Frequency, but then links to the beat-em up game anyway. "This game is terrible. Here, give it a try." A bit thoughtless, really.

There's so much hate for... for nothing. Nothing at all.

Hate for people, hate for groups of people, wishing harm on others that are innocent. I'm getting pretty tired of it.

Tenmar:
I'm sorry John but we both know you are being dishonest here when your opinion becomes "you are proving her point". We both know this is a kneejerk reaction response just like a good deal of the other crap we have seen that actually doesn't offer anything to the discussion.

Also it ignores that her argument that if the video game industry really is sexist then it should be based on the games created in the video game industry, not a solo project on newgrounds.

Which is also ironic considering that on the news reel we have a plea for women to be outright violated, maimed and killed in cold blood by xenomorphs(not exactly the biggest alien fan, saw Aliens when I was young and GTFO). So while one side we have women and a petition to be exactly part of the violence of video games but on the other side we can't tolerate the poorest form of insulting that involves a women being "beaten" up in a flash game. This is an outright double standard.

Also finally one main criticism and outrage here forgoes the logical conclusion of Anita's argument. That if the video game industry in all sectors is really sexist. Then the people working in the video game industry are themselves sexist or have people who are sexist that are making critical decisions when it comes to the publishing of articles to the development of video games.

Take any of the games she claims is to be sexist such as Bastion, Gravity Rush, Assassins Creed, Bayonetta and the like then there needs to be accountability to root out these sexist employees. Does this mean Shigeru Miyamoto is sexist for creating Zelda and Princess Peach/Toadstool who were made into the damsel in distress stereotype? Or how about Sega or Platinum Games cause according to Anita that playing that game makes men want to molest women. Which designer and artists are sexist there? Cause you certainly can't have products that are sexist without sexist people in charge.

Also consider these videos and article when it comes to the whole point of video games and the lack of research Anita actually does in her work.

One more point John, with all due respect this is a crap news story cause all it does is easy outrage and doesn't actually offer the coherent dissent from people who think that Anita is either unqualified to do this project or so incredibly biased. I wanna see some actual journalism here giving the big picture offering actual context. I don't like seeing tabloid crap that does nothing but spark pointless outrage without actual thought or discussion.

http://www.destructoid.com/a-response-to-some-arguments-in-anita-sarkeesian-s-interview-230570.phtml

I think you miss the real point (although I think Anita does as well). It's not specifically that the video games industry is sexist. It's that the attitude toward women is very prevalent in the world. It unfortunetly has been a slow process in changing the views of the average person. When you stop and think about it, it hasn't even been 100 years that women have been allowed to vote in most western countries (I won't even go into how women are treated in non western countries).

The positive to take away from Anita's video's is that it highlights that we can't except that sexism doesn't exist (or any other for of discrimination for that matter). It takes constant vigilance to make sure everyone is treated equally.

A much better movie to watch is called Miss representation. Which focus's on the media as a whole. The creater of the movie asks herself does she want her daughter to grow up in this world. I asked myself the same question (Hypothetically if I have a daughter)and my answer was no.

I challange anyone here who doesn't think sexism exists to watch this movie. It also points out the probelm that men have growing up which leads to the problems in sexism.

Tenmar:
Which is also ironic considering that on the news reel we have a plea for women to be outright violated, maimed and killed in cold blood by xenomorphs(not exactly the biggest alien fan, saw Aliens when I was young and GTFO). So while one side we have women and a petition to be exactly part of the violence of video games but on the other side we can't tolerate the poorest form of insulting that involves a women being "beaten" up in a flash game. This is an outright double standard.

There is a pretty big gulf between what essentially boils down to a revision of the source material and to beating up this very specific person. I think you're grasping at straws trying to pin that as a double standard.

What

the

fuck?!?

While I understand the game itself has already vanished, I have to feel like the Escapist shouldn't be giving a platform to people creating this kind of hate. Report it - it's news, certainly - but maybe without a link to the game itself?

It's a small consolation that the Newgrounds community recognized it for the garbage it is.

Actual:
I see no problem with a game about punching someone who annoys you in the face.

OH WAIT! It's a woman? Ban this disgraceful filth!

AnAutisticDog:
Meh, if it was about beating a man nobody would care.

Well done for completely missing the point. It isn't about her being a woman - its about a blameless person being faced with an unprecedented onslaught of negativity and misogyny, just for talking about video game characters. She's hardly comparable to the Bin Laden and Jar Jar punching bags.

Tenmar:
I'm sorry John but we both know you are being dishonest here when your opinion becomes "you are proving her point". We both know this is a kneejerk reaction response just like a good deal of the other crap we have seen that actually doesn't offer anything to the discussion.

Also it ignores that her argument that if the video game industry really is sexist then it should be based on the games created in the video game industry, not a solo project on newgrounds.

Which is also ironic considering that on the news reel we have a plea for women to be outright violated, maimed and killed in cold blood by xenomorphs(not exactly the biggest alien fan, saw Aliens when I was young and GTFO). So while one side we have women and a petition to be exactly part of the violence of video games but on the other side we can't tolerate the poorest form of insulting that involves a women being "beaten" up in a flash game. This is an outright double standard.

Also finally one main criticism and outrage here forgoes the logical conclusion of Anita's argument. That if the video game industry in all sectors is really sexist. Then the people working in the video game industry are themselves sexist or have people who are sexist that are making critical decisions when it comes to the publishing of articles to the development of video games.

Take any of the games she claims is to be sexist such as Bastion, Gravity Rush, Assassins Creed, Bayonetta and the like then there needs to be accountability to root out these sexist employees. Does this mean Shigeru Miyamoto is sexist for creating Zelda and Princess Peach/Toadstool who were made into the damsel in distress stereotype? Or how about Sega or Platinum Games cause according to Anita that playing that game makes men want to molest women. Which designer and artists are sexist there? Cause you certainly can't have products that are sexist without sexist people in charge.

Also consider these videos and article when it comes to the whole point of video games and the lack of research Anita actually does in her work.

One more point John, with all due respect this is a crap news story cause all it does is easy outrage and doesn't actually offer the coherent dissent from people who think that Anita is either unqualified to do this project or so incredibly biased. I wanna see some actual journalism here giving the big picture offering actual context. I don't like seeing tabloid crap that does nothing but spark pointless outrage without actual thought or discussion.

http://www.destructoid.com/a-response-to-some-arguments-in-anita-sarkeesian-s-interview-230570.phtml

EDIT: After playing the game and actually reading the text before the actual outrage let me say a couple of things.

1. There is a long into that is actually very clear in the intentions of the actual flash creator about equality in video games and he expresses his opinion that she conned people out of their money and even mentions that lack of integrity in her research to which people have certainly proven that she doesn't do research very well and often misses a lot of the content that she arrives at her opinion.

2. It was actually being clever in the sense that wanting equality in videos means that women are going to get physically hurt. Once again as ugly as it maybe you can't have it both ways. This just takes it while certainly a kneejerk reaction to a logical extreme and women getting hurt isn't something we haven't seen before in video games, movies, and books.

3. All the flash is involves is clicking on the picture as it slowly morphs into other rendered images of people who have been beaten up. Not very gory or over the top, just a slow click click click to get a picture of her "beaten up".

Frankly, I don't find any merit in the "opposition," such as it is. That is, people are welcome to disagree with her, and the Destructoid article you linked is a perfect example of politely doing just that - it is a reasoned discussion, not an attack.

But the DDOS, threats, links with violence, porn drawings, Wiki vandalism, etc - those are not okay. And if anyone think of defending any of that, I think they need to seriously examine themselves because they are perpetuating a terrifyingly misogynist gamer culture. Because while her points originally may have been about the industry - that is, the ones making the games - the entire culture around gaming is terribly messed up in how it treats women.

If you can look at all of this and not see that we have a terrible problem with misogyny in online gaming culture, then you are blind.

Slycne:

There is a pretty big gulf between what essentially boils down to a revision of the source material and to beating up this very specific person. I think you're grasping at straws trying to pin that as a double standard.

I would disagree because she put herself out there as a public figure which means she and all of her work is free game for good or for ill. This means that both gates are open, from the legitimate criticism to the kneejerk reactions and hostile reactions people make.

As a big political nut when I see the political drama(MSNBC, CNN, FOX) you see a lot of crap being thrown at each pundit by their fanatical base and this is nothing different. Heck a good deal of the time even the pundits throw their own crap at other pundits that have actually gotten pundits fired in the past or at the very least suspended.

Heck I haven't even gotten to the part of the political campaigns and their propaganda. Do I really need to mention the 2008 election and link the pictures of Obama as The Joker or as a "tribal figure"? Sorry, but when you put yourself out there in the public be it for politics or for video games both gates open and you are free game where anything goes whether you like it or not.

Reeeeeeeeeally helping make your case that Sarkeesian is upset over nothing.

[quote=Zaik post=7.381107.14994840] I'm inclined to agree that it was little more than a scam, but I don't really see how you can blame her that there are gullible retards that will throw money at a perceived injustice to feel better about themselves.[quote=Zaik post=7.381107.14994840]

It is not a scam when you knowingly and willing gave money to a person who is going make product that you and other people want to see. With that kind of logic your using could call the double fine adventure a scam, for example the pitch for the double fine adventure was if you give us money we will make a game that dose not exist beyond point that it's going to be an adventure game. Think about it a bunch of people throw an obscene amount of money at something they wanted to see happen. So what's wrong with documentary series that people gave a lot money toward because they deiced too.

Tenmar:
snip

Given that you keep reposting that same Bayonetta video, and the "Anita Sarkeesian, college graduate" video comments on it as well, I want to ask if you understand why advocating for the creation of voluntary-use safe-spaces for women is neither anti-feminist, nor tantamount to segregation as it was historically practised along racial (or sexual, for that matter) lines?

-m

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