Flash Game Makes Players Beat Up "Tropes vs. Women" Creator

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TwiZtah:
I can only think about how many games there are where you torture Osama or Saddam Hussein. But that's okay right?

Did you just compare Feminist Frequency with a terrorist group and brutal dictatorship?

Knight Templar:

CosmicCommander:
OK, this is dumb.

But it still doesn't exclude the fact the woman is a hack. Coincidentally, I was just watching this:

I've said it before but I think it bears repeating.
If you feel a video is necessary to make your point you need to find a better one, because anything coming from somebody so attached to 4chan (/v/ to be more precise) and trolling will only undermine your point.
It's like a video on the downsides to affirmative action coming from stormfront. It may well have good points but it has no credibility.

I wasn't using it to make a point. I just happened to be watching it when I came on.

And I wasn't even aware of the creator's links to 4chan or such. I just found it a damn good video. I find if you care more about the creator than the content, you're just a person who can't defeat an argument without resorting to ad hominem attacks. It's a trend that's a bit tiring; because you don't like the individual and whatever the hell they've done, you discard their points. It's intellectually backwards and it only contributes to ignorance, hyperbole, and irrelevance.

The guy made a good video. That's all there damn well is to it.

Knight Templar:

TwiZtah:
I can only think about how many games there are where you torture Osama or Saddam Hussein. But that's okay right?

Did you just compare Feminist Frequency with a terrorist group and brutal dictatorship?

No, what I was getting at was the hypocrisy, no one would care if we were beating up a man, whatever his occupation would be. But if so much as the wind blows on a womans skin, it's rape, assault and every other thinkable shit.

Edit: I'm not pro-hitting women, I just think the whole debate has gotten out of hand.

ZephrC:
snip

Whining about how the internet is? I don't think you're getting my point (it's not internet specific, it's more about idiot teen males doing idiot teen things). Internet is just where everyone gets to spout their views, no matter how idiotic they are and to "change" it would require people to change, specifically idiotic teens with all sorts of issues, not the net. Getting annoyed as you're obviously labeling me as something I'm not and assigning views I don't have. But not surprised and it feeds into my cynical view even more overall.

Don't buy what? I'm telling you as it is , that some teen is being an idiot and made a flash cartoon in an afternoon as is the norm for newgrounds. And you're getting in arms over it cos it happened to be a hot topic issue and you're already emotionally involved in it (you mentioned having already donated. Again how do you feel about britney spears and other peeps who got worst treatment then this? Its exact same situation you know). If anything the guy making the vid would smile if he ever got to see all this (as you're being shown to people like me that you're donating for wrong reasons). Two wrongs don't make a right especially if the cause you're fighting for is the "right" one. Why you gotta act like the immature teens you're denigrating?

And...Ok yeah, I was about to continue typing a paragraph for almost each sentence said as I really didn't agree or found some points just silly (will just say that the last remark in particular seriously made me lose respect for ya in the sense i'll be less inclined to believe anything you say if that's what you honestly believe is acceptable justification, nevermind it feeding into the whole "you're acting like a tool" thing i initially said) but really there's no point, both our stances have been crystalized now so let's part on a relatively civil manner and agree to disagree.

I don't agree with Sarkeesian, and I find her whole goal of making video's about kicking in open doors pretty stupid (combination of low-hanging fruit and doubtful intentions), but this game is just in very bad taste. This is just a completely wrong way of disagreeing with someone.

Then again, all these "I've lost faith in humanity" reactions in this thread are equally absurd and useless.

CosmicCommander:
snip

You don't think that the creator coming from a place that celebrates sexism and trolling should raise any questions?
The video does make genuine arguments. Thats not my problem and if you think I disagree with it as a whole, then I am sorry for the mistake, no need to attack me over it.

TwiZtah:

No, what I was getting at was the hypocrisy, no one would care if we were beating up a man, whatever his occupation would be.

And you think the best people for this example are terrorists and dictators? Wanting to hit somebody because they have killed countless people, and wanting to hit somebody because they have an opinion you dislike are not the same thing. Not even a little bit.

But I would care, depending on the person. I don't care that dead murders have these things made about them, but that has nothing to do with their gender.

yeah that,s really not going to prove her point and makes her totally not hate people with the XY chromosome.

Irridium:

John Funk:

Of course, the great irony here is that the vicious response is not only giving Sarkeesian's cause way more publicity than it would have otherwise gotten, but does more to illustrate the problem of misogyny in nerd/gamer culture way more than a video series ever could.

Because seriously, making a videogame about beating a woman in the face for daring to express the point of view that a male-dominated industry doesn't always treat women and female characters like it should, is kind of just making her point for her.

Said it better than I could.

Seriously, why the hell are people so pissed about her making a video series showing that women aren't portrayed in the best light in games?

Because deep down, the gaming community is bloody TERRIFIED that the world at large could find out that the stereotypes and clichés are, alas, true.

Most -isms are the direct result of huge inferiority complexes. Look at the biggest bigots out there; illiterate taliban, inbred rednecks, jobless, despondent neo-nazis, etc. The only reason people get this touchy about criticism is that some of it hits too close to home for comfort, which is why we get overblown, retarded reactions to anything vaguely negative said about the gaming community. At its core, this is the exact same thing as radical islamists killing people and bombing places because somebody called Islam "violent".

Are many gamers socially awkward shut-ins? Yes.
Does gaming, as a whole, portray women in a rather questionable light? Yes. And don't tell me about Chell and Alix and Faith and Elena. Yeah, there ARE games that manage to show women who aren't just a pair of cartoon boobs, but compared to the hundreds of games in which women are just that, it's a vanishingly small minority.
Do many games go overboard with depictions of violence? Yes, but so does every other medium out there.

However, mention these facts in a public forum, and you'd best get ready for reactions that - well, that aren't really that surprising for a community whose most popular game is mostly a bunch of teenagers calling each other racial, sexist and homophobic epithets while going for headshots.

But seriously, these vile instances of sexism (let's not forget that this comes in the wake of that Street Fighter X Tekken incident in which that fat slob who couldn't get laid in the world's lowest-rent whorehouse called sexism an "integral part of the fighting game community") make me ashamed to be a gamer, despite having been one for almost a quarter of a century.
Gamers continually whinge about how their community isn't treated with sufficient respect - which, ironically, is the whole reason why crap like this happens - and then turn right around and engage in behaviour akin to motorcycle gangs and tea partiers in its ignorance and bigotry.

EDIT: this should go without saying, but NONE of the above has anything to do with people's right to disagree with each other. I myself find Ms Sarkeesian's views and methods to be less than unimpeachable, but people defending calls for rape and such as "freedom of expression" really have no bloody idea whence the whole notion of our freedom stems. My whole point is that if somebody criticises certain aspects of gaming culture in an unfair and unreasonable manner, then the ONLY VIABLE COURSE OF ACTION is to respond to such criticism as even-handedly and as reasonably as possible - if someone calls your views fascist, it really doesn't help your cause to advocate the murder of all who disagree with you; same goes here.
I don't think that Ms Sarkeesian is bright enough to have orchestrated this whole thing, but by God, did we, as a community, get sucker punched. She called gaming culture sexist, and it responded by engaging in behaviour that would make convicted rapists blush.

I would replace "Makes" with "Invites". The key thing to remember about any game is that no matter how s*** it is, or what political point it makes, or what it tries to get you to think...you don't have to play it. I say if someone wants to make a flash game wherein the player beats up Anita Sarkeesian, ok. If people want to play that game, ok. I am neither of those people, and am content with merely not having anything to do with it.

She's making a video series on the internet. What the hell is wrong with people?

Ignoring for a start that the majority of people's arguments against her, even "serious" ones are absolutely abysmal, the only possible outcome of this is to stifle discussion and scare people out of a proper debate. It's not her fault if she's not listening to the vast majority of her detractors - the fact there is a vast majority detracting from her directly causes the situation and yet people still blame her for not having the time or energy to engage with them.

Now apparently people here think she made that herself. Uh, her Kickstarter's closed guys - she can't actually benefit from that, nor does she given the genuine controversy was big enough that anyone who cares already knows about it.

God damn it, this is the exact same logic as the 9/11 truth stuff - "Isn't that convenient? Guess she did it herself! That's logic!".

Knight Templar:

CosmicCommander:
snip

You don't think that the creator coming from a place that celebrates sexism and trolling should raise any questions?
The video does make genuine arguments. Thats not my problem and if you think I disagree with it as a whole, then I am sorry for the mistake, no need to attack me over it.

No worries; but before I go let me present you with my own anecdote that I find to be relevant. Many of my family are racists and are in the BNP. It's not something I'm proud of, but they're my family -- I'm not going to distance myself from them.

Does this fact exclude me from partaking in the political process?

MeChaNiZ3D:
I would replace "Makes" with "Invites". The key thing to remember about any game is that no matter how s*** it is, or what political point it makes, or what it tries to get you to think...you don't have to play it. I say if someone wants to make a flash game wherein the player beats up Anita Sarkeesian, ok. If people want to play that game, ok. I am neither of those people, and am content with merely not having anything to do with it.

Ehh, slippery slope there. Now, while I am adamantly against censorship - Milton's Areopagitica and all that - to say that no medium is inherently dangerous creates problems of its own.

Sure, nobody (at least in a free society) forces you to read any book, play any game or watch any movie. However, there is a major difference between censoring media which PORTRAY certain kinds of behaviour, and those who actively ENCOURAGE or ADVOCATE it.
It's the difference between a book in which somebody kills the president of the USA, and another which suggests that you should go out and do so (Rush Limbaugh's new opus, one should guess). This "game" in question, I think, belongs among the latter kind, and therefore, should be subject to rather closer scrutiny.

CosmicCommander:
Many of my family are racists and are in the BNP. It's not something I'm proud of, but they're my family -- I'm not going to distance myself from them.

Really? Why not? Just because you share some genetic information with somebody, you stand by them even though they are dangerous idiots? If I had, say, a tea partier or a skinhead in my family, they'd be right off the Christmas card list, mate.

I agree with the sentence "As long as it is made, it isn't a scam" but you're also talking about $160,000. She has just "earned" 3 years of income for a lot of people inside of a month (53k a year). How can you prove 100% of that money will be used to make the video in a timely manner?

Or on the uglier side of the coin: What if it was made by her in order to get more free media?

Frankster:
Guys these kinda games have been around since the dawn of the internet, quite litterally and portray a wide variety of people from bin laden to probably obama and other world leaders (i remember bush getting tons back in the day) to pop stars like britney spears.

Honestly, this is the kind of thing that makes this sorta situation so volatile to begin with. You're using the excuse of, "it's been around a long time, so it's perfectly okay," to rationalize the existence of these things. And yes, I know they've been around pretty much since Newgrounds was invented and Flash games became popular, doesn't mean we have to like or even accept that.

I deliberately haven't been following this person's stuff or the articles about her, because I frankly don't really care about it. I do have an issue with the things she's supposedly fighting, and things such as this (and the threats) really prove our point about there being something dreadfully wrong in the game community. The fact that this kind of reaction happens at all is a sure sign that there's a problem.

What bothers me is that so many people either refuse to admit it even exists, or flat-out defend it. Saying you disagree and then going on to attempt a counter-argument is not only fine, it's encouraged. But if you genuinely think that "I'm gonna rape and kill you" is an appropriate response to someone female for saying ANYTHING negative about something within the game community is fucking okay, then you need your head examined.

Not meaning that is in YOU you, but "you" as in the general public. Sorry if that wasn't clear. :p

I mean, gods, look at me! I say bad shit about the gaming community all the time, but I'm a guy and nobody's threatened to molest me yet! I'm just as unpleasant to look at as she is, maybe I should feel left out? D:

PurePareidolia:
God damn it, this is the exact same logic as the 9/11 truth stuff - "Isn't that convenient? Guess she did it herself! That's logic!".

Don't expect logic from these ppl - it's very much a "she's saying mean things about my toys T.T" sort of thing. Or in this guy's case, that plus him apparently being crazy.

Kahunaburger:

PurePareidolia:
God damn it, this is the exact same logic as the 9/11 truth stuff - "Isn't that convenient? Guess she did it herself! That's logic!".

Don't expect logic from these ppl - it's very much a "she's saying mean things about my toys T.T" sort of thing. Or in this guy's case, that plus him apparently being crazy.

I know but the thing is, I can (and do) say the exact same things because the problems are really obvious and I care about stuff being done to fix them, but it's solely the fact she's saying making the same (or similar - I don't know her exact opinions as the videos haven't been made) argument that causes this. I know people compartmentalize but that doesn't stop the double standard from being mind blowing.

Seriously, guys.

image

Case. F***ing. Closed.

This is in poor taste.

That said, it IS a scam, and it is amusing that nearly the entire escapist community supports it. You know what she'll do with the money? NO, you won't see any groundbreaking games, nor will you see women in respectful clothing or plot positions or as strong main characters. You'll get low budget videos that cost pennies to make, while she pockets nearly $200k.

You're throwing money the wrong way guys. Anita's videos will accomplish absolutely nothing, because the only thing that matters is firsthand game sales.

Phasmal:
The worst thing about this is that I'm not at all surprised.

Oh I am, surprised it didn't happen sooner. Which is even worse.

Here's hoping it was some kid that made it. Sure it is pretty much a scam, and she has the analyzing and speech skills of a damn rag not deserving of a penny, but this is just childish.

snowplow:
This is in poor taste.

That said, it IS a scam, and it is amusing that nearly the entire escapist community supports it. You know what she'll do with the money? NO, you won't see any groundbreaking games, nor will you see women in respectful clothing or plot positions or as strong main characters. You'll get low budget videos that cost pennies to make, while she pockets nearly $200k.

You're throwing money the wrong way guys. Anita's videos will accomplish absolutely nothing, because the only thing that matters is firsthand game sales.

Bernie Madoff scammed BILLIONS out of people, and yet, I've yet to see nerds talking about raping him and inviting people to punch his face in. Your point?

Ms Sarkeesian, her views, and even her Kickstarter drive - scam or not - are entirely seondary to this issue. It doesn't matter who she is, what she did, what it all represents, or how questionable it all is.

The reaction from the gaming community would have been ghastly, idiotic, unwarranted and counterproductive even if she had called every male gamer a fat smelly virgin. THAT is the issue at hand here.

This is the same whingy, emo gaming community, btw, that cries that EA and Activision are the worst companies in the world because of Day 1 DLC and such while Halliburton is making millions off wars and Monsanto is letting people starve to death.

Frission:

RT-Medic-with-shotgun:
/snip

There would a case in court. Under state criminal codes, which vary by state, it is an offense to knowingly utter or convey a threat to cause death or bodily harm to any person. It is also an offense to threaten to burn, destroy or damage property or threaten to kill. An e-mail or letter is enough. I doubt it will go to court, but there is a leg to stand on despite your claims.

I don't think anyone should or will get into trouble, but this game isn't something worth defending.

Frankly censorship is horrible. It sometimes dumb down and may destroy the original message of a work. I find it hard to believe that those who defend this sincerely are against censor. This isn't about the movie "Brazil" or "Brave New World" being considered too negative. This is a badly made flash game. It's not hard to say it's shit.

Also about censorship. "Rule of Roses" was a somewhat good game that was censored. That is sad. Don't put it in the same category as this game. You're only giving a reason for censorship.

About overreactions. I think the burden is more on someone that can be bothered to make a whole game, than some people on an internet forum, no? You went into a forum about people complaining saying "stop complaining guys!"

I am aware the FBI takes cyber threats seriously. I am also aware that if they were to take each poorly written comment as an actual assault case they would never finish work. Even if the FBI felt the comment warranted investigation, you would have to get to court. Any judge that sees a 13 year old kid being taken to court by a grown adult over a YouTube comment, Would laugh you right out of the courtroom. You would need all the luck in the world to get the judge to think the case was worth pursuing. yes a youtube comment or email is technically liable as a threat, but good luck getting anything done about it. FBI will likely pass it off after a cursory investigation, most judges would look at all parties like children, & lets not forget the news. I will let you think of headlines for this case, post the best one.
But to call a game a death threat? its a logic line akin to those that thought GTA would lead to gang violence. I have no clue how you would even prove the case.
Frankly im glad it was taken down. Poorly made games deserve to be taken down. I don't know enough about newgrounds & its censoring, don't care. All i can say is that with such a high profile subject, taking down the game smacks of censorship & that just fans the flames. Why? white knights think they genuinely changed the "gaming community", trolls think sarkeesian is genuinely changing the "gaming community", & anyone else is left wondering if it was more for it being a crap product or because a bunch of white knights got angry about someone making fun of sarkeesian.

sideshow:

To be honest, i'd like to see the first episode of this Tropes VS Women and THEN make my opinion.

or you could watch her current videos & see the projected quality, legitimacy, & fasihion of them.

(Face palm) ...Okay, that's just going too far. Yes, what she did was morally wrong... but this isn't helping! Gah... and my folks wonder why I don't like people very much...

Jorec:

Worgen:
Ugh, haters, they aren't happy unless they go totally off the deep end, really all it does is make them look either really stupid or make the other side look that much better.
image

Room for one more?

Can I come too?

CAPTCHA: one hit wonder - yeah, that pretty much sums it up...

Archangel357:

Your point?

snowplow:
This is in poor taste.

Thanks for (not) reading properly. Have a good day champ!

Knight Templar:

CosmicCommander:
snip

You don't think that the creator coming from a place that celebrates sexism and trolling should raise any questions?
The video does make genuine arguments. Thats not my problem and if you think I disagree with it as a whole, then I am sorry for the mistake, no need to attack me over it.

TwiZtah:

No, what I was getting at was the hypocrisy, no one would care if we were beating up a man, whatever his occupation would be.

And you think the best people for this example are terrorists and dictators? Wanting to hit somebody because they have killed countless people, and wanting to hit somebody because they have an opinion you dislike are not the same thing. Not even a little bit.

But I would care, depending on the person. I don't care that dead murders have these things made about them, but that has nothing to do with their gender.

I used those examples because I know there are flashgames for that, but now I know there are games to beat up american politicians etc.

Okay, rephrasing. Woman hits man with a...book or whatever on the head, no no no judge, we were just playfighting. Man hits said woman with exact same force and he's going to jail guaranteed.

I was having an immature moment here. Removed post.

RT-Medic-with-shotgun:

sideshow:

To be honest, i'd like to see the first episode of this Tropes VS Women and THEN make my opinion.

or you could watch her current videos & see the projected quality, legitimacy, & fasihion of them.

And then wonder why the fuck she needed $6,000 in the first place.

Okay, that does it... I'm getting a lobotomy!

But seriously why would this even be made? Why, God, Tell me Why! It's stupid, insensitive and just plain redundant...

It's unlikely, but wouldn't it be genius if this was all some clever marketing plot?

Publicly calling for Ms. Sarkeesian to be beaten up for her views? Completely and utterly unacceptable, which is doubtless why the creator of this game did not do so.

Creating a publicly available game where people can beat up Ms. Sarkeesian in effigy? A cowardly attempt to say from behind a curtain that Ms. Sarkeesian should be beaten up for her views. Also completely and utterly unacceptable.

Hjalmar Fryklund:

Elate:

Phasmal:
The worst thing about this is that I'm not at all surprised.

Oh I am, surprised it didn't happen sooner. Which is even worse.

Here's hoping it was some kid that made it. Sure it is pretty much a scam, and she has the analyzing and speech skills of a damn rag not deserving of a penny, but this is just childish.

Check Kahuna´s comments on the previous page, you will find some amusing facts about him.

Hey, now, I ain't about to judge what someone pulls their pudding too, if weird tentacle cartoons involving sonic are your thing, more power to ya.

I'm convinced that their are aliens, I'm convinced that they know about us. And I'm also convinced the reason they haven't made any real contact is shit like this. This is why if they ever do make contact it's gonna be at the end of a plasma Rifle.

Aiddon:
thank you for proving Ms. Sarkeesian's point, dumbass.

Theres nothing else to say, this simply proved her on her point 100%. Smart move random Newgrounds forum poster, now you don't have your game on their site AND you proved the lady you despise so much 100% true, good fucking job.

While here, all I can say is that a large amount of gamers casually use sexist, homophobic and racist remarks commonly. I don't think even her highlighting then telling of ways to fix sexism in games would even phase the gaming community in the slightest. We'd still be calling everyone a faggot and a cunt and everything we didn't like gay. We need some more mainstream in us before we can actually talk-nice to each other.

Buretsu:

RT-Medic-with-shotgun:

sideshow:

To be honest, i'd like to see the first episode of this Tropes VS Women and THEN make my opinion.

or you could watch her current videos & see the projected quality, legitimacy, & fasihion of them.

And then wonder why the fuck she needed $6,000 in the first place.

Because shes doing this to make a profit so that she can eat. Not everyone lives in your magical fantasy land where things don't cost money to buy / use.

snowplow:
This is in poor taste.

That said, it IS a scam, and it is amusing that nearly the entire escapist community supports it. You know what she'll do with the money? NO, you won't see any groundbreaking games, nor will you see women in respectful clothing or plot positions or as strong main characters. You'll get low budget videos that cost pennies to make, while she pockets nearly $200k.

You're throwing money the wrong way guys. Anita's videos will accomplish absolutely nothing, because the only thing that matters is firsthand game sales.

What I said to the other dude. Here it is for you though: Because shes doing this to make a profit so that she can eat. Not everyone lives in your magical fantasy land where things don't cost money to buy / use. I assume she has no other job then this, of course she wants to be payed for it.

When I read the title of this thread, the first thing I thought was "Hmm, I wonder if it's from Newgrounds?" And sure enough, it was.

You guys must be new to the site, if this made news here.

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