DayZ Creator: Updating Our Game Is "Terrifying"

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Farther than stars:

FelixG:
So yeah, as in real life, there will be those that add to the chaos (the majority) and those who seek to bring order and work together (minority)

I disagree. In real life the majority of people work together with other people, i.e. a society. When you see a random person in the street you tend not to punch him, mostly out of moral/ethical notions, but in a video game such notions don't exist, or are at least very weak, so most people will gun each other down on sight. There needs to be some sort of disincentive to stop that, just like there is in real life.

Understandable, but just punching a person on the street is a slightly different barrel of fish than a rather violent disaster.

For example during hurricane Katrina there was a marked rise in looting, violence ect.

So as I said it will generally split into those two camps, though the order bringers will tend to gain the cooperation of the more chaotic individuals when the chaotic individuals think they can gain an upper hand in the more ordered society.

Waaghpowa:

How about a "justice" system where after X amount of player kills, the player responsible gains notoriety. Word spreads among survivors or your misgivings and people informally place a bounty on you in order to assure survival for the majority. You can give small incentives to players who kill other "notorious" players as well as have hostile non zombie NPC's spawn for the sole purpose of killing said player.

They actually had one in place which they (Stupidly in my opinion) removed.

Before, when you would kill players your morality would drop and your player skin would change to one that was recognizable as a bandit.

When they had that skin you could tell at a glance that they were not good people and you could safely gun them down without a morality hit yourself.

Why they removed it baffles me.

FelixG:
They actually had one in place which they (Stupidly in my opinion) removed.

Before, when you would kill players your morality would drop and your player skin would change to one that was recognizable as a bandit.

When they had that skin you could tell at a glance that they were not good people and you could safely gun them down without a morality hit yourself.

Why they removed it baffles me.

The fact that they removed that sounds idiotic. Though the idea I had doesn't sound like too bad of an idea considering they did, at one point, have a system in place.

I don't see why people in this thread are complaining about getting their asses handed to them by other players. If it annoys you, look at the basis of the mod, get used to ARMA 2-style tactics, form a fireteam and use the tactics you've learned to fight your way through the opposition, whether they're human or zombie. The underlying basis of the mod is a military simulator - so go military on it!

Waaghpowa:

FelixG:
They actually had one in place which they (Stupidly in my opinion) removed.

Before, when you would kill players your morality would drop and your player skin would change to one that was recognizable as a bandit.

When they had that skin you could tell at a glance that they were not good people and you could safely gun them down without a morality hit yourself.

Why they removed it baffles me.

The fact that they removed that sounds idiotic. Though the idea I had doesn't sound like too bad of an idea considering they did, at one point, have a system in place.

It was removed because people who killed out of self defense would get a bandit skin.

Waaghpowa:

Farther than stars:

FelixG:
So yeah, as in real life, there will be those that add to the chaos (the majority) and those who seek to bring order and work together (minority)

I disagree. In real life the majority of people work together with other people, i.e. a society. When you see a random person in the street you tend not to punch him, mostly out of moral/ethical notions, but in a video game such notions don't exist, or are at least very weak, so most people will gun each other down on sight. There needs to be some sort of disincentive to stop that, just like there is in real life.

How about a "justice" system where after X amount of player kills, the player responsible gains notoriety. Word spreads among survivors or your misgivings and people informally place a bounty on you in order to assure survival for the majority. You can give small incentives to players who kill other "notorious" players as well as have hostile non zombie NPC's spawn for the sole purpose of killing said player.

They had something like that. They called it "humanity", but they took it out, partly because the skin they gave the bandits was cameo, which meant they could do even more killing without being seen. In my opinion they should make bandits wear some kind of orange vest, something which makes them light up like a Christmas tree.

After being sniped twice and abandoned in the middle of nowhere and betrayed once by some guy I gave a blood infusion to, I've stopped trusting other players in this game. I am now convinced that this game is meant to be "you vs the zombies, the environment, and everyone else with a gun". I know it's kind of dickish to shoot on sight or ambush people, but I've been screwed over too much to be the nice guy. It's simply too easy and too rewarding to be bad in this game, and there's no real reason to be nice, since it'll probably get you killed.

Bought Arma II recently, have yet to download the mod. A friend and I plan to work together in the game.

DayZ is a deranged paranoid power fantasy for right wing shut-ins who would blow their own nuts off the moment they were handed a real gun and probably already have done. It caters to the same people that make FPS games a living hell to craft for, and proves why stories and "let people do what they want" is impossible in the first person genre. In a game where it's finally possible to have the freedom to make a community, everyone's too busy soaking up virtual and self-proclaimed tears by killing people with unrealistically common guns and military equipment, why? For fun!

Of course, surviving is easier than Facebook games. Find a survival knife and a Makarov pistol in a store, grab a canteen, and pickup a map online. Head up north, past Stary Sobor (but do not go in) and you can live off the land for the rest of your game life. Survival officially accomplished. Getting better guns is just a matter of keeping an eye in the deer stands, all conveniently marked on your online map. But, survival is the singleplayer game, what about multiplayer? What about it...see someone and kill them...that's all anyone does in this "new idea" of a game. Just don't expect any actual tactics like forest scanning to work against snipers, they can easily "reposition" after every shot by logging out. Even then, you're playing Where's Waldo with a 10 second (if that) timer, and that's with you being behind them.

It's like playing GTA, only the bandits are the ones with the controller and the survivors are the pedestrians, just how fun do you think it's going to be trying to survive in GTA as a common walkabout? You might as well pack the red shirts. The community is deplorable, in the most sickening of ways. I honestly felt nauseous after going through the forums, especially when it occurs to me that this may very well be the future of gaming.

Yeah, you heard me, DayZ community (not the game) makes me ashamed to consider myself a gamer. DayZ is neither new, contributing, or helpful to the industry. It's an entire game revolving around the concept of "surviving is boring, being a jerk is fun."

DaHero:
Yeah, you heard me, DayZ community (not the game) makes me ashamed to consider myself a gamer. DayZ is neither new, contributing, or helpful to the industry.

The funny thing is that the DayZ community have attached themselves to one of the few first-person shooter communities where (as far as I can see, anyway) people are consistently willing to work as a team, albeit in a manner hostile to the in-game or opposing entities.

Farther than stars:

Risu3:
If you meet an unarmed person in town your options are basically either to leave the town or to shoot him, cos you'll probably run into him again 20 minutes later when the nub has a revolver and a twitchy trigger finger

Thing is though, if you shoot him first, aren't you the one with the twitchy trigger finger?

Funny thing, Day Z has the most complex moral choices in any game, and it doesn't even have a moral choice system.

Ekonk:

Farther than stars:

Risu3:
If you meet an unarmed person in town your options are basically either to leave the town or to shoot him, cos you'll probably run into him again 20 minutes later when the nub has a revolver and a twitchy trigger finger

Thing is though, if you shoot him first, aren't you the one with the twitchy trigger finger?

Funny thing, Day Z has the most complex moral choices in any game, and it doesn't even have a moral choice system.

I have to agree, but at the same time render it a moot point. DayZ does indeed have the most complex moral system, but gamers treat it as the same binary that they've treated other games in the past. All the "are they a threat?" questions go out the window, giving way to the "shoot everything moving" mentality.

As for people working together, yes...cooperating axe murderers making videoes and laughing about unrealistic griefing...that's REAL coop right there. I have yet to see a working co-operative community that wasn't shooting on sight and gloating about murder points. If anything, I say we start giving out killstreak bonuses since we're already half way there. Anyone that's played DayZ for more than a week knows how to survive. Avoid nighttime, don't go anywhere near towns, hide and stock up on meat, stay near a lake...but survival is boring.

Ekonk:

Farther than stars:

Risu3:
If you meet an unarmed person in town your options are basically either to leave the town or to shoot him, cos you'll probably run into him again 20 minutes later when the nub has a revolver and a twitchy trigger finger

Thing is though, if you shoot him first, aren't you the one with the twitchy trigger finger?

Funny thing, Day Z has the most complex moral choices in any game, and it doesn't even have a moral choice system.

On the whole I'd have to say no. Because from what I've experienced the average player loses all sense of morality the moment they pick up a gun.

I've been tempted to try this out, but I've a hard enough time tolerating more structured online communities already. The idea of being completely at the mercy of better geared and prepared players, most of whom got that way by stepping on the throats of people just like me, is beyond off-putting.

Oddly enough, the bit about zombies eventually becoming a non-issue is precisely why the community will always be so unrealistically cutthroat. If there were good reason for players to band together for mutual benefit and safety, it would happen. But if the zombies aren't particularly threatening past a certain point, why not shoot everyone on sight? It's not like you're in a real apocalypse, lonely and afraid, desperate for human contact and companionship. You're in a den or bedroom or a basement playing a videogame.

FieryTrainwreck:
I've been tempted to try this out, but I've a hard enough time tolerating more structured online communities already. The idea of being completely at the mercy of better geared and prepared players, most of whom got that way by stepping on the throats of people just like me, is beyond off-putting.

Oddly enough, the bit about zombies eventually becoming a non-issue is precisely why the community will always be so unrealistically cutthroat. If there were good reason for players to band together for mutual benefit and safety, it would happen. But if the zombies aren't particularly threatening past a certain point, why not shoot everyone on sight? It's not like you're in a real apocalypse, lonely and afraid, desperate for human contact and companionship. You're in a den or bedroom or a basement playing a videogame.

I agree with this sentiment. The starting premise is there, but without a goal to work towards for a common purpose people will naturally become loners. More incentive to work together like tougher zombies, and maybe different ways to approach the game. A faction or two to help things even out, and just overall stuff. More diverse stuff.

OK, that's it I have had ENOUGH!

As someone who has played all of BIS's games since ye old'e original Operation Flashpoint I have to make these points.

1) There are HUGE amounts of groups of people that have made guilds on their own! From Medic guilds, taxi, farming (literally and metaphorically) along whit people who actually go out and kill griefers, who hunt the people who hide the woods and in big cities.

2) IT IS IN ALPHA, there are a huge amount of bugs, yes because this whole thing is running of a mission editor! It is using an insane amount of scripting, do any of you realize how much of a pain it is to script in Arma 2?

Most of the bugs are being fixed as we go!

3) Most people have no idea how to fucking survive, I see these idiots sprinting through cities and fields, taking no notice of the hordes o f zombies that actually have eyesight and hearing! No idea how to play stealthily at all.

You can literally go prone and crawl past a zombie a few feet away if you aren't a complete idiot, its people who are to ignorant about what even the developers have said about surviving and all the Youtube videos ( stay crouched and run, stick to forests, don't sprint, don't run on main roads, get of the beach ASAP, scout out a village before running in, go inside buddings if being chased because they have to walk in buildings.

4)People moaning about being killed by other players while starting off really need to get over themselves, people who do that are few and far between unless you go to main areas like the airstrip or Electro/Cherno. Killing new players is a huge waste of ammo and time, infact when I play I always encounter very nice people who are willing to help!

It varies on nationality, the Russian servers are usually kill on site, American servers are pretty mixed whilst my own servers, New Zealand and Australian, are pretty damn friendly!

5)Loot is not hard to find, Barns contain weapons and hunting material, houses contain food, workshops contain industrial goods and hunting stands contain the odd assault rifle.

This is what happens when a games with mechanics like Arma becomes main stream, people who are used to an entirely different mode of playing, unrealistic, come in and tend to hate it because it is to hard.

Oh well, I dont really care much, I stick to the ACE mod anyway, that just pushes realism up to an insane amount anyway!

Farther than stars:

FelixG:
So yeah, as in real life, there will be those that add to the chaos (the majority) and those who seek to bring order and work together (minority)

I disagree. In real life the majority of people work together with other people, i.e. a society. When you see a random person in the street you tend not to punch him, mostly out of moral/ethical notions, but in a video game such notions don't exist, or are at least very weak, so most people will gun each other down on sight. There needs to be some sort of disincentive to stop that, just like there is in real life.

Except when shit really hits the fan, when society collapses. Case in point; New York black-out, Hurricane Katrina. Those are exactly the moments when the real disincentives; law enforcement, order and stability in general, are just gone. And during moments like that you see what lies beneath our civilized exterior. However, that's during the initial stages of the disaster. Order eventually restores itself in one way or another. In real life the trigger-happy hooligans would quickly eradicate themselves, or at least thin each other out, until we see tribal structures arise. We still are group animals, after all.

The problem is that in DayZ those rotten apples just create a new character when they die. The game is stuck in those first days of crisis. It needs to find a way to get itself past that. The obvious advantages of creating communities are already there; it's safer to scavenge, easier to fend of bandits, more eyes to spot zombies with, etc. Maybe if there was a way to really consolidate your community. If you could create camps, maybe even small settlements. After a while you'd really have to compete for a limited amount of resources and territory. And voila; you've got yourself an endgame situation right there.

Problem is of course that for that to happen, mister Rocket needs a lot more resources and man power to make this a standalone game. I'd sure as hell pay for a Kickstarter initiative though.

DaHero:

As for people working together, yes...cooperating axe murderers making videoes and laughing about unrealistic griefing...that's REAL coop right there. I have yet to see a working co-operative community that wasn't shooting on sight and gloating about murder points. If anything, I say we start giving out killstreak bonuses since we're already half way there. Anyone that's played DayZ for more than a week knows how to survive. Avoid nighttime, don't go anywhere near towns, hide and stock up on meat, stay near a lake...but survival is boring.

I'd say that the Criken video posted in the OP isn't exactly a band of cutthroats on a roll. And behind all the silliness you sometimes see the real potential of this game shining through.

Cowabungaa:
The obvious advantages of creating communities are already there; it's safer to scavenge, easier to fend of bandits, more eyes to spot zombies with, etc.

This is why I believe that in real life amenity would be more the case, since we're genetically prone to forming groups for this reason, namely so that we can help each other live and survive. It's why we have a society in the first place. And that's why in real life the majority of people have no malicious intent towards others, but in a video game that's exactly the opposite. To go from being merely good to great, the game needs to deal with this fundamental sociological conundrum.

Farther than stars:

Cowabungaa:
The obvious advantages of creating communities are already there; it's safer to scavenge, easier to fend of bandits, more eyes to spot zombies with, etc.

This is why I believe that in real life amenity would be more the case, since we're genetically prone to forming groups for this reason, namely so that we can help each other live and survive. It's why we have a society in the first place. And that's why in real life the majority of people have no malicious intent towards others, but in a video game that's exactly the opposite. To go from being merely good to great, the game needs to deal with this fundamental sociological conundrum.

After a while yes that'll happen. But it doesn't at first, we've seen that multiple times in real life. It takes a while for order to return after all order gets kicked out of the door. Sadly DayZ is stuck in that first phase of order falling and doesn't enter the second stage of order returning as, as I've already said, it doesn't facilitate the forming of communities very well.

It's not really a matter of dealing with a sociological conundrum, just a matter of gameplay mechanics. Mechanics that, as of now, are out of Rocket's reach. I do really hope the mod develops further. It has the potential of becoming a truly player-run universe akin to EVE.

Really it is the flow of the game, once you get out there for a while, have stockpiles of stuff and possibly a vehicle, what else is there?? A fancy sniper rifle, zombies are kinda easy target, but players can fight back.

DayZ has so far been a fairly good experience for me. I've only been shot once by another player, but wasn't killed. A few weeks ago, I met up with a person who just spawned a little in front of me. We teamed up and met up with 2 others. That was a great session.
The only thing I could want in DayZ now is to start with a pistol and a couple of clips of ammo. I found the game quite hard to play because I couldn't stay alive long enough to learn how to effectively avoid zombies and players (though now I know a few tips like scouting towns, not sprinting no matter what, etc. it's easier). The only reason I stay long enough now is thanks to the aforementioned tips the 3 kind souls I met before gave me. The experience would be better and more tolerable for beginners if they started with a weapon.

rolfwesselius:

therandombear:
Do something with "bandits" and the whole "assholes lying in the bushes killing everyone they see" thing.

And make me start with a gun again, cause I have never found a weapon.

Harden up
If you got killed you did something wrong.
And finding weapons is easy just look in the right places.

There are no right places when playing in hardcore mode :D

This game is theo nly one that managed to get me actually scared despite all those fancy "Scary"games coming nowadays.

I disagree. In real life the majority of people work together with other people, i.e. a society. When you see a random person in the street you tend not to punch him, mostly out of moral/ethical notions, but in a video game such notions don't exist, or are at least very weak, so most people will gun each other down on sight. There needs to be some sort of disincentive to stop that, just like there is in real life.

I disagree. In real life the majority of people worth together as a society because that is useful. When you see a random person in the stree you tend not to punch him because you would either have nothing to gain or he would punch back, but in a video game you would have something to gain (loot) and dead person isnt coming back to punch you. So most people will do the most optimal thing - kill others. If that were optmal in real life - we would do the same. Actually, we do, its called wars. If there were a zombie apocalypse in real life and situation were as dire as in DayZ, you would kill others for gain. If you wouldnt you'd be dead.

DayZ is available to download for free right here, but you'll need a copy of ArmA II: Combined Operations to play it.

Actually that is not entirely correct. You can use a free arma 2 online + operation arrowhead (10 dollars on steam last time i checked) and play this mod. the downside is - the free versionsgraphics are much worse than the normal ARMA, but it saves you 15 euros. infact, its down to 20 euros for the whole packapge on steam ATM, so go get that.

This is the best survival guide.
1:get hatchet.
2:get weapons.
3:Get matches.
4:get hunting knife.
5:Get canteen.
6:(Optional) Get Camping tent
7:travel deep into the wilderness and find a lake somewhere in the wilderness.
8:Set up a tent out of range of the lake because people sometimes go to lakes for water
9:Live of the land by hunting animals and drinking from the land.

Do this if you want to survive for a long time.

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