Borderlands 2 Will Be Insanely Well-Armed

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Borderlands 2 Will Be Insanely Well-Armed

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Gearbox's new shooter has so many guns, it can't even begin to count them all.

Thanks to its random generation system, Borderlands had a ridiculous number of weapons. In fact, if you were to combine every other FPS released across the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360, you wouldn't come close to Borderlands' 17.75 million guns, a figure that earned the game a Guinness World Record. Now, that towering achievement looks set to be overshadowed by its successor.

Randy Pitchford, the head of Gearbox Software, has revealed that Borderlands 2 will probably repeat its predecessor's accomplishment by having more weapon permutations than every other shooter this generation, Borderlands included. "Probably" is the operative word here, as Pitchford hasn't yet counted the possibilities. He went on to say that beyond a certain point the number itself becomes insignificant, remarking that "players should feel there are many different types of guns, not just slight variations."

Pitchford said that this was mainly possible due to a gradually-increasing budget. Initially Borderlands 2 was planned to be about as large as the original, but as time went on and sales of Borderlands snowballed, the investment initially given to the title doubled. The final result is a game twice as large as was originally intended, both in its scope and content.

As with the previous title, there's very little chance that players will ever experience the full range of items on offer. Between the insane number of weapons and the recently-announced "Badass" system that offers infinite character progression, the game seems focused on keeping players interested for a long time to come.

Borderlands 2 will be available this September on PC, Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3.

Source: Eurogamer

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I am so very very happy that he took time to note that more guns is unimportant if they're all slight variations. After all, technically you can add 100,000 guns just by having every combination of pistols with every whole number of damage between 1 and 1000 and accuracy between 1 and 100.

Oh I hope so. I loved Borderlands but the fact that you only have so many types of guns to play with wasn't as fun. Granted the Helix Rocketlaunchers were fun but I would have loved to have a Grenade Launcher or some such.

COME FASTER SEPTEMBER I NEEDS MAH BORDERLANDS 2!

Oh in the jungle, The mighty Jungle, Designs are tweaked toniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

I really hated this statement from the first borderlands, and I hate it now. There are just base weapon types that, sometimes, have physical modifications and different stats. It's a randomized system; these aren't designed weapons.

Giving me a gun that's green and a gun that's blue, that fires the same way and maybe does different amounts of damage, is not a different gun in my opinion.

Day one purchase, I'm not even gonna try and hide it! The more I hear about this game the better and better is sounds.

Do we have the future GOTY 2012 on our hands?

All those randomly generated weapons and I'll still probably get stuck with the shittiest of the shittiest stat combinations like I am with every game.

AC10:
I really hated this statement from the first borderlands, and I hate it now. There are just base weapon types that, sometimes, have physical modifications and different stats. It's a randomized system; these aren't designed weapons.

Giving me a gun that's green and a gun that's blue, that fires the same way and maybe does different amounts of damage, is not a different gun in my opinion.

/thread

I totally agree. Just because it looks different in color and a slight damage/effect change does not make it a different gun.
It's like changing the barrel of a .45 M1911 to a .22 round caliber (yes it can be done) and calling the M1911 a different gun.
It's still a 1911, just a different caliber of round.

I heard that it was going to have even more guns.

What surprising is the mention of a "Badass" system; sounds like the CoD prestige thing.

See publishers; this is how you reduce used sales. You make a game that people will want to keep playing long after launch.

Frank_Sinatra_:
I totally agree. Just because it looks different in color and a slight damage/effect change does not make it a different gun.
It's like changing the barrel of a .45 M1911 to a .22 round caliber (yes it can be done) and calling the M1911 a different gun.
It's still a 1911, just a different caliber of round.

I am cautiously optimistic about Borderlands 2. Borderlands 1 had a lot of this, but there was also some seriously different guns. For instance some of the revolvers had shotgun rounds, there were burst fire rocket launchers, there were rocket launching shotguns, there was an assortment of interesting unique weapons, etc.

Obviously with millions of weapons, well over 99.9% of them will be the same but slightly different, but based on reading reviews I get the impression that they're trying to avoid having, to use your example, nothing but M1911s with different caliber boolets. (Although that'll still happen of course)

GonzoGamer:
I heard that it was going to have even more guns.

What surprising is the mention of a "Badass" system; sounds like the CoD prestige thing.

See publishers; this is how you reduce used sales. You make a game that people will want to keep playing long after launch.

I wish this had been the fate of Blur. :(

Does it use Gamespy like its predecessor? If the answer is yes, I'm not buying - I'm tired of that crappy service ruining potentially great multiplayer games.

scotth266:
Does it use Gamespy like its predecessor? If the answer is yes, I'm not buying - I'm tired of that crappy service ruining potentially great multiplayer games.

This would be a true statement for me as well if I were planning to play it in multiplayer mode. Since 94.7% of my time spent in Borderlands was single-player, it's not a dealbreaker for me if they go with Gamespy again.

That said, the fact that they used Gamespy was one of the major contributing factors to my continually refusing to play it online. >.>

It doesn't really matter to me how many guns they have. The game as a whole needs to be way more substantial than the first Borderlands was, considering that the first barely had a plot, they mostly abandoned humor after the first zone, and it came down to shooting the same exact poor sods over and over again for hours on end.

So the game has a bunch of variations of about 10 guns.

scotth266:
Does it use Gamespy like its predecessor? If the answer is yes, I'm not buying - I'm tired of that crappy service ruining potentially great multiplayer games.

Shjade:
This would be a true statement for me as well if I were planning to play it in multiplayer mode. Since 94.7% of my time spent in Borderlands was single-player, it's not a dealbreaker for me if they go with Gamespy again.

That said, the fact that they used Gamespy was one of the major contributing factors to my continually refusing to play it online. >.>

Well i cant pull proof for it, but apparently it will use Steamworks. Sorry if i ruined your day further due to a irrational hatred of Steam.

Why does Borderlands get so much shit for story problems? I don't remember complaints there was no story in fucking Dialbo II's Cow Level...

(which isn't to say a better story wouldn't improve the game, but why so much focus?)

When developers claim that their game has 14 million different weapons or 63 quadzillion potions, because of different combinations of parts and random effects...

IT IS LAME

Regardless of the degree of variation between the 17 million weapons in Borderlands, the guns were different and diverse enough for me. If Borderlands 2 is only going to make that better (even if not by much), then I am happy.

All this talk changes nothing, I am still buying this game because its predecessor was some of the most fun coop I've played in a while.

Goofguy:
Regardless of the degree of variation between the 17 million weapons in Borderlands, the guns were different and diverse enough for me. If Borderlands 2 is only going to make that better (even if not by much), then I am happy.

All this talk changes nothing, I am still buying this game because its predecessor was some of the most fun coop I've played in a while.

QFT. I thought there were enough different guns that finding and shooting them was pretty fun, even with no other players to bounce jokes etc. off of, and I honestly don't foresee Borderlands 2 as being different from that. Sure, you can be cynical if you like, that's your lookout, but at least in terms of that GWR, a different gun, regardless of exactly how different it is, is still a different gun.

AC10:
I really hated this statement from the first borderlands, and I hate it now. There are just base weapon types that, sometimes, have physical modifications and different stats. It's a randomized system; these aren't designed weapons.

Giving me a gun that's green and a gun that's blue, that fires the same way and maybe does different amounts of damage, is not a different gun in my opinion.

...Did you read the entire article? He flat out says that he saw that problem with the first game and they're working on fixing it. Here's a quote from the article.

"players should feel there are many different types of guns, not just slight variations."

"Pitchford said that this was mainly possible due to a gradually-increasing budget."

See?

Everything I hear about this game makes me want to ransack Gearbox's main studio for a copy of the game! And every time I see a screenshot of Borderlands 2 it makes me so excited.

"Badass" system

Ohhh so that's why they wanted people to play Borderlands 1 a short while ago. Glad to know now.

I'm still worked up about the Ultimate edition, which is selling for double the price on Ebay. I guess I should start saving up.

gigastar:
Well i cant pull proof for it, but apparently it will use Steamworks. Sorry if i ruined your day further due to a irrational hatred of Steam.

What? Steam is fine. I have a rational dislike of Gamespy derived from the amount of crap I have to go through when I want to play games that rely on it.

AC10:
I really hated this statement from the first borderlands, and I hate it now. There are just base weapon types that, sometimes, have physical modifications and different stats. It's a randomized system; these aren't designed weapons.

Giving me a gun that's green and a gun that's blue, that fires the same way and maybe does different amounts of damage, is not a different gun in my opinion.

They meant a different weapon in the RPG sense (i.e. different swords and crap in your run-of-the-mill fantasy RPG. They don't play out differently, they just have different stats).

erttheking:

AC10:
I really hated this statement from the first borderlands, and I hate it now. There are just base weapon types that, sometimes, have physical modifications and different stats. It's a randomized system; these aren't designed weapons.

Giving me a gun that's green and a gun that's blue, that fires the same way and maybe does different amounts of damage, is not a different gun in my opinion.

...Did you read the entire article? He flat out says that he saw that problem with the first game and they're working on fixing it. Here's a quote from the article.

"players should feel there are many different types of guns, not just slight variations."

"Pitchford said that this was mainly possible due to a gradually-increasing budget."

See?

But there is no going to be billions of guns as seems to be implied.

AC10:

erttheking:

AC10:
I really hated this statement from the first borderlands, and I hate it now. There are just base weapon types that, sometimes, have physical modifications and different stats. It's a randomized system; these aren't designed weapons.

Giving me a gun that's green and a gun that's blue, that fires the same way and maybe does different amounts of damage, is not a different gun in my opinion.

...Did you read the entire article? He flat out says that he saw that problem with the first game and they're working on fixing it. Here's a quote from the article.

"players should feel there are many different types of guns, not just slight variations."

"Pitchford said that this was mainly possible due to a gradually-increasing budget."

See?

But there is no going to be billions of guns as seems to be implied.

"Shrug" guess the differences between the guns just aren't enough for some people. They were for me.

I want a gun that fires guns that I didn't want to use.

Borderlands really only had a few weapons. Repeating pistols, pistols, revolvers, submachine guns, machine guns, assault rifles, sniper rifles, rocket launchers, and alien weapons. Their system gave slightly different stats to these same weapon type but otherwise they are all examples of the same gun. It is something of a cheat to say they have the most guns of any game, which is not true if you count guns that actually were designed from the ground up as different weapons.

They should just come out and say it. List how many base weapons there are, by class or manufacturer or whatever, and then say that there are unlimited combinations of stats and elemental damage.

And the other differences reflect on the gun itself, say the zoom stat will affect the scope/iron sights, elemental affects the color, range affects barrel length etc, because that is what the game does. Even that is sometimes sketchy, carrying a machine gun clip that looks like it holds 20 rounds when it actually has 150 (ok some of that is due to character stats but still).

In Rainbow 6 or Crysis you don't slap on an extended mag and red dot sight and call it a different gun for gods sake.

Mygaffer:
Borderlands really only had a few weapons. Repeating pistols, pistols, revolvers, submachine guns, machine guns, assault rifles, sniper rifles, rocket launchers, and alien weapons. Their system gave slightly different stats to these same weapon type but otherwise they are all examples of the same gun. It is something of a cheat to say they have the most guns of any game, which is not true if you count guns that actually were designed from the ground up as different weapons.

You forgot shotguns.

Also, while it's true that the over 17 million number is silly and useless, it's not fair to say there was no meaningful variation within the weapon types. For instance, an assault rifle with average power and and accuracy but really low recoil and a high fire rate that fires exploding rounds in three round bursts plays very differently from an assault rifle that has a low firing speed and fires accurate and powerful single shots that set people on fire.

I guess it gets into kind of a gray area how different weapons have to be to count as 'different', but I don't think that saying there are less than a dozen types of weapons in Borderlands is any more accurate than saying there are over 17 million.

As long as I can find another SMG that shoots 5 bullets at one I'll be happy.

Well this is awesome, despite everyone saying that the 17 million guns was just 12 different gusn with varying stats, there actually is an assload of variation.

For example with Repeater pistols there are 5 common variants

Lacerator - +200% Melee damage.
Needler - Increased fire rate & magazine size.
Raptor - Increased damage at the expense of higher recoil.
Repeater - Balanced, closest to default stats.
Swatter - Higher accuracy.

Those are the standard pistols that will come in white, green, blue, and purple rarity. Then they can have additional elemental damage types (Explosive, Corrosive, Fire, and Shock). And also from random weapon parts, like a scope that increases accuracy for example.

Then you have the unique pistols, which usually have very good stats for their level

Lady Finger "Omnia vincit amor" +100% increased critical damage.
The Dove "Sometimes, I forget to reload." - No ammo usage.
Krom's Sidearm "a gift from Papa Krom" - 300% Burst Fire while zoomed & 3x Shock.
Chiquito Amigo Say "Hello" - Fast reload, large magazine.
Knoxx's Gold "Bling!" - Increased resale value.
Athena's Wisdom"War is the final option" - Increased critical hit damage & accuracy.

Now these unique weapons will spawn as one of the common or even legendary repeater types (Ill get to legendary in one second). So you could get a Swatter (Higher accuracy) spawning as Athena's Wisdom, so now you have an even more accurate pistol with a bonus to critical damage, vastly increasing its usefulness.

Then there are the legendary weapons, marked in Orange

Atlas Troll "Pain Heals." - Slow health regeneration while held.
Dahl Hornet "Feel the Sting" - 200% burst fire, corrosive.
Hyperion Invader "12 bullets invade your skull" - Fully automatic while zoomed.
Maliwan Firehawk "Bring the HEAT!" - Incendiary x4, splash damage, extreme proc damage (equivalent to a x6)
S&S Gemini "Double Whammy." - 200% Burst Fire, 2 bullets fired per shot at the cost of 2 ammo.
Tediore Protector "Ammo is no longer an issue." - Ammo Regeneration.
Torgue Violator "Your move, Creep." - 300% Burst Fire x 3 bullets per shot at the cost of 1 ammo.
Vladof Rebel "Never stop shooting!" - Large magazine & increases RoF.

These guns always have special effects, that are much more noticable than the effects obtained from unique weapons. The Legendary weapons are where the guns start to feel incredibly different, as most of them require a strategy to be used effectively (E.g. when you using the Firehawk you can safely switch between targets, since the fire damage will do enough DOT to kill enemies. Whereas with the Invader, you will want to make the most of its effect to load bullets into individual enemies skulls to get a hige critical damage boost)

Theres the pearlescent rank, which is effectively just even better legendary weapons. These guns are the rarest of the rare and have one of a kind special effects (E.g the ability to fire bullets that do 2 types of elemental damage at the same time)

In addition to all this guns also have manufacturers, which have their own effect on a gun.

Atlas - Above average damage and magazine capacity.
Appearance: White, with more black detailing at higher material grades.

Dahl - High recoil reduction, at the cost of accuracy.
Appearance: Various camouflage patterns differing across material grades.

Eridians - Alien weaponry, deals generally high damage with unlimited ammunition but often suffers from slow recharge.
Appearance: Organic, easily told apart from normal weapons.

Hyperion - Very high recoil reduction and accuracy.
Appearance: Red, darker and more metallic at higher material grades.

Jakobs - Never manufactures elemental weapons. Very high damage, but with lower fire rate and recoil reduction.
Appearance: Orange and brown, with wooden gloss finishes at higher material grades.

Maliwan - Only manufactures elemental weapons, which have much higher tech regeneration rates. Also benefits from marginal increases to accuracy and reload speed.

S&S Munitions - Very high magazine capacity. Usually manufactures elemental weapons.
Appearance: Yellow and black, more contrast at higher material grades.

Tediore - Extremely fast reload speed, with a slight compromise on damage and accuracy.
Appearance: Matte gray, lighter gray to beige at higher material grades

Torgue - High damage and slightly higher fire rate, but suffers from much lower accuracy and recoil reduction.
Appearance: Dark gray to black, darker and more metallic at higher material grades.

Vladof - Very high fire rate, good recoil reduction, but suffers from much lower accuracy.
Appearance: Orange and black, more contrast at higher material grades.

With all this combined, those simple stat changes can make guns feel very different to one another, so while 17 million guns may not all feel different, a good couple of thousand do. Which is still very impressive.

AC10:
I really hated this statement from the first borderlands, and I hate it now. There are just base weapon types that, sometimes, have physical modifications and different stats. It's a randomized system; these aren't designed weapons.

Giving me a gun that's green and a gun that's blue, that fires the same way and maybe does different amounts of damage, is not a different gun in my opinion.

Agreed completely.

Although I always take these announcements as something of a joke, the creators behind the series do like to be quite light hearted, and I don't think they are using it as a serious selling point in the same way as other companies do when they announce things.

More "guns" and using steamworks .... you have my money

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