Gollum Overpowers Gandalf in Guardians of Middle Earth

Gollum Overpowers Gandalf in Guardians of Middle Earth

Monolith Productions gives us a Gollum that can crush more than hobbitses.

Does everyone remember that part in Lord of the Rings where Gollum murdered Gandalf in one-on-one combat? No? Well, don't tell that to Monolith Productions which is redesigning the iconic characters for the upcoming online battle game Guardians of Middle Earth. Following the same concept as Defense of the Ancients or the insanely popular League of Legends, players choose characters from the Lord of the Rings franchise and take them into battle against an opposing team. What might strike some players as odd is that since Gollum is one of the smallest and weakest characters of the series (only able to get the better of small goblins or the occasional lone Hobbit), Monolith upped his damage beyond that of the white wizard Gandalf. This minor balancing decision has made Gollum one of the most powerful characters to play.

"Wretched, yet fearsome. Cowardly, yet unnaturally strong," reads a narrator in Guardian's battle profile video. "Gollum was once a kind of hobbit, but the One Ring twisted his mind while giving him strength and abnormally long life. He is obsessed with the Ring, and everyone is his enemy. Fast and strong, Gollum's abilities are finely tuned to kill quickly with hit-and-run tactics, or in single combat."

Profiled characters are presented with three main statistics; Survivability (a combination of Health and Resistance), Damage, and Difficulty. Gollum's Survivability is practically non-existent, but he more than makes up for it with a Damage rating just below the highest possible setting. Gollum also has abilities for channeling health and purging harmful effects, and he even comes with a flurry attack that skips its cool-down period if it results in a kill.

Gandalf, by comparison, has high Survivability, and his abilities make him ideal for absorbing damage while single-handedly fighting large enemy forces. His Damage rating, however, is noticeably lower than Gollum's, which in a one-on-one fight could make all the difference.

Realistically, this isn't the strangest choice Monolith could've made for the game, since Gollum will still have to rely on careful, well-timed strikes to ensure any kind of success. It's just strange to see some of the choices developers make to ensure a character like Gollum could go toe-to-toe against the powerful beings of Middle Earth. At this point, it could've been Gollum himself screaming "You shall not pass!" at the Balrog before drop-kicking it off the stone bridge.

Source: Eurogamer

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Yeah, this doesn't fit in with the mythos at all. Gollum is persistently weak and incapable of any major attack on anything more dangerous than a traumatised hobbit. To fight the demi-god that is Gandalf the White on an equal footing... yes, games have to be balanced, but this is silly.

You know, I love Monolith, I love Tolkien, and I'm pretty cool with MOBAs. But all three of them together sounds like a weird mix -- especialy Monolith making a MOBA. I think the last thing they made that wasn't an FPS was Captain Claw, which was a side scrolling platformer that came out in 1997.

A Lord of the Rings based MOBA /does/ have a certain appeal to it, though...

I have one major issue with this game: It's impossible for a developer to properly balance these characters as fighters while remaining true to the narrative, but that precise narrative is the only reason to make this a LoTR-themed game in the first place.

Well, that and the fact that Gimli has been given Thor's hammer for no apparent reason.

Okay, so I have two major issues.

ya know I posted something about about this a while back let me find it....

Sneezeguard:
ok let me get this straight, Gollum vs Gandalf is suppose to be a fair fight

Gandalf vs the Balrog is a pretty fair fight

so... Gollum vs the Balrog is a fair fight?

This is just League of Legends with Lord of the rings paint splashed on it isn't it?

Yep it's still just a relevant.

well to be fair they said casters and hitters are what gollum is weak to, considering that the balrog is made of fire and brimstone, aka elemental damage, and i would imagine hits like a mac truck i still have faith that the balrog could take even this gollum it if set him on fire and then squished him like a bug.

Mike Kayatta:
Well, that and the fact that Gimli has been given Thor's hammer for no apparent reason.

What.
Gimli? With a hammer?
I can see why someone would make Gollum stronger than he is in the lore, for balancing reasons...however unpleasant it may be for someone who knows the lore well (a group which I consider myself to be part of).
But why would anyone give Gimli a hammer? That makes no sense.

Nice to see the escapist staff cares about established canon.

Mike Kayatta:
I have one major issue with this game: It's impossible for a developer to properly balance these characters as fighters while remaining true to the narrative, but that precise narrative is the only reason to make this a LoTR-themed game in the first place.

Well, that and the fact that Gimli has been given Thor's hammer for no apparent reason.

Okay, so I have two major issues.

Here's a solution: DON'T MAKE A LOTR FIGHTING GAME!

Nevermind Gollum balancing, why can't we play as a Balrog?

Maybe make it a Godmode cheat? Summon Blarog! Stomp on everyone.
I'm from the old world biiiitttcchhess!

Ahem, does this mean that other bad guys like the Nazgul and Gothmog will be playable as well?

That would be cool.

http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.com/guardians/thrain-ii

Well that makes much more sense now, it's not Gimli. Though it's odd they would lead with not the most recognized dwarf from the setting.

Despite the weirdness of weighting game balance vs setting. I am actually pretty interested in how their implementing a MOBA on the consoles. It looks like they have some form of automatic targeting in limited cones.

I feel this is the opposite way round really, Gollum should be a trick character with high speed, good resistance and almost non-existent damage. So it's pretty easy to stay alive and you can manouever well, but you have to be creative and rely on abilites to do the damage. Maybe a good last tapper, which actually fits Gollum very well all in all

Slycne:
http://www.guardiansofmiddleearth.com/guardians/thrain-ii

Well that makes much more sense now, it's not Gimli. Though it's odd they would lead with not the most recognized dwarf from the setting.

Despite the weirdness of weighting game balance vs setting. I am actually pretty interested in how their implementing a MOBA on the consoles. It looks like they have some form of automatic targeting in limited cones.

Ooh, yeah, that does make more sense. I hereby change my complaint to ... where the hell is Gimli?

"You have my sword!"
"And you have my bow!"
...
...
"Um, anyone seen the dwarf? You know, short fellow, big beard. Likes to go on about his axe? No?"

To be honest I think whoever green lit this needs a stern talking to. I can see how the meeting for this game went with somone pointing out the success of DOTA/LoL type games, and suggesting that one based off of a well known liscence might be a good investment. Something like "Lord Of The Rings" has enduring popularity so I can see why it was picked, but it's really not condusive to this kind of thing at all as there really isn't much parity between characters to begin with, or even that large a roster of characters involved enough or detailed enough to be drawn on to create a huge LoL-type roster. Gollum was probably made a playable character, simply because he's a known character, and one of those people will recognize. Whether it should be viable to play him in a situation like this was probably a tertiary concern.

At any rate as this goes on, I wonder how long it will be before we see Barliman Butterburr and Glorfindel as playable characters. "Now you can dominate the battlefields of Middle Earth with everyone's favorite inkeeper! Watch has he tanks away damage with his jiggling belly self-buff, pulverizes enemies with exploding ale casks, and teleports companions away from death blows with his naruto-inspired decoy bed abillity!" (insert promotional video of Aragorn being cut down but at the last moment a puff of smoke, replacing him with a wrecked bed, with the badly injured Aragorn appearing next to Butterburr).

As far as Glorfindel goes, he's the elf that carried the injured Frodo to Rivendell, where the river was used to destroy the ring wraiths for a time. I imagine it's inevitable he'd wind up in the game because he IS a named character, god knows what he actually does though, so I guess that would give them free reign. I imagine he'd wind up being a taxi tank with the abillity to pick up team mates and protect them as he moves, while screaming "oh noes! they are after us!". Bonus points if they actually manage to get the name of his horse right. :)

Oh, oh, and let's not forget Brandiboris Bullroarer (I think I have the name right) the great hobbit hero who was big enough to actually ride a pony, and who knocked the goblin into the well with a cudgel! Bringing him back in an "ancient legends and heroes" pack would of course be awesome... :/

Then of course the good aligned answer to Gollum... Farmer Maggot... able to chase down "coward" with his own speed buff of "you stole my vegetables!".

I mean seriously, when they are already trying to make Gollum playable, just imagine how far they are going to need to stretch to fill out this roster.... anyone else have any "definate" additions. :)

You know what? Who SAYS games have to be balanced? Gollum does not win in a fight against Gandalf. No protection against magic, no protection against the physical, and he shrieks like a banshee if even anything elven touches him.

All Gandalf has to do is shine a big bright light and Gollum is incapacitated.

The only opponents that can handle Gandalf are {A} people who can counter him like the Witch King of Angmar, {B} big powerful shit like trolls and balrogs, and {C} enemies who make it hard for him to concentrate on magic, like a badass normal whose skills with a blade are a cut above all others and they're fiercely-fast.

Gollum is none of these. Fuck balance.

FalloutJack:
The only opponents that can handle Gandalf are {A} people who can counter him like the Witch King of Angmar, {B} big powerful shit like trolls and balrogs, and {C} enemies who make it hard for him to concentrate on magic, like a badass normal whose skills with a blade are a cut above all others and they're fiercely-fast.

Or, y'know, any archer, as long as he doesn't see them shooting at him.

Gandalf's a powerful guy, but he's still just a guy. Maybe he wouldn't stay down, but I don't think it'd take a badass to put him down, just some tactical application of lethal force.

...which Gollum couldn't do, regardless.

Shjade:

FalloutJack:
The only opponents that can handle Gandalf are {A} people who can counter him like the Witch King of Angmar, {B} big powerful shit like trolls and balrogs, and {C} enemies who make it hard for him to concentrate on magic, like a badass normal whose skills with a blade are a cut above all others and they're fiercely-fast.

Or, y'know, any archer, as long as he doesn't see them shooting at him.

Gandalf's a powerful guy, but he's still just a guy. Maybe he wouldn't stay down, but I don't think it'd take a badass to put him down, just some tactical application of lethal force.

...which Gollum couldn't do, regardless.

Actually, no, Gandalf isn't a guy. While he appears to be an elderly male Human, in truth Gandalf is more akin to Sauron than he is to any of the Humans. He's a Maia, a being that is somewhere between Angel and Demigod.

Shjade:

FalloutJack:
The only opponents that can handle Gandalf are {A} people who can counter him like the Witch King of Angmar, {B} big powerful shit like trolls and balrogs, and {C} enemies who make it hard for him to concentrate on magic, like a badass normal whose skills with a blade are a cut above all others and they're fiercely-fast.

Or, y'know, any archer, as long as he doesn't see them shooting at him.

Gandalf's a powerful guy, but he's still just a guy. Maybe he wouldn't stay down, but I don't think it'd take a badass to put him down, just some tactical application of lethal force.

...which Gollum couldn't do, regardless.

Not strictly speaking true, as someone pointed out, Gandalf is basically a divine being. Through most of the stories he's not using his full power because he is trying to stay under Sauron's radar, and is not as powerful as Sauron is (who is another step up the divine heirarchy) and other beings like Sauruman on the same basic level as he is have been corrupted.

in Lord Of The Rings the the "Wizards" are not normal guys who do magic. While the standard type of fantasy RPG spellcasting apparently exist and goes on, you really don't see much of it since none of the characters are really into that. Elrond was involved in enchanting the river that saved Frodo, but other than that you don't see him do much like haul off and lob a fireball even though he was probably capable of doing it. With rare exception guys like Gandalf are on a whole differant level from mortals. It could be argued that the leaders of the high elves (Galadriel and Celeborn) are probably on a similar power level, elves being of divine descent themselves, and they apparently had magic above their station (and Galadriel had another ring of power). Tom Bombardil is actually more powerful than either Sauron or Gandalf, indeed it was discussed giving him the ring, but it was not done because it wouldn't corrupt him, but would be a temporary solution because he's scatter brained and would forget about it so the whole problem would start again. With the ring Sauron becomes increasingly more powerful and it was debated whether Tom could take him at that point, but probably not "unless the power to defeat Sauron lay within the earth itself".

The only reason why Gandalf didn't walk into some of those situations and do real wrath of god type stuff is because again, he was hiding and using his power would let other powers like Saurman and what was left of Sauron know where he was. This is also arguably why the confrontation between him and the Witch King was touchy, Gandalf wasn't sure if he could win or not, but part of that was that he couldn't just say "hi, I'm a pseudo-deity... now die" because if he did that it would be like sending up a message letting everyone know with 100% certainy where he was, and he was probably like public enemy #1 simply based on what he was.

Gollum isn't going to touch that.

Also, in the books you know how Gandalf eventually beat the Balrog? They basically had a wrestling match and he eventually threw it down. In the process he died himself (from the brief description in the book), but he was pretty much sent back/got better because he's not something that can really be killed. He looks like an old guy with a hat and a pipe, that's not actually what he is.

Also it's for this reason that in many Lord Of The Rings games and such (RPGs, or whatever) Gandalf isn't playable. He works best much like he did in the books, showing up to move things along in a specific direction, passing on instructions, etc... He's always somewhere else from where he sends people so the forces looking for him won't be paying attention to the other stuff he sent in motion which would pan out. He was playing a long game (so to speak).

PrinceOfShapeir:

Shjade:

FalloutJack:
The only opponents that can handle Gandalf are {A} people who can counter him like the Witch King of Angmar, {B} big powerful shit like trolls and balrogs, and {C} enemies who make it hard for him to concentrate on magic, like a badass normal whose skills with a blade are a cut above all others and they're fiercely-fast.

Or, y'know, any archer, as long as he doesn't see them shooting at him.

Gandalf's a powerful guy, but he's still just a guy. Maybe he wouldn't stay down, but I don't think it'd take a badass to put him down, just some tactical application of lethal force.

...which Gollum couldn't do, regardless.

Actually, no, Gandalf isn't a guy. While he appears to be an elderly male Human, in truth Gandalf is more akin to Sauron than he is to any of the Humans. He's a Maia, a being that is somewhere between Angel and Demigod.

At least, here on the internet, people still read books.

As much as this tickles my Tolkien fancy, I don't see it lasting. There just aren't enough THINGS in Middle-Earth to compete with a huge roster like LoL. It'd be awesome to play as Beorn, or Sauron, or Tom Bombadil...

...but this smells more of "LotR=munnies" than real dedication to the source material.

I'm going to be totally honest on this one and not sugar coat it: This game just looks really stupid and I will not be touching it. LoL is a great game and I just can't see this reskin replacing it.

When are we getting the Lord of the Rings game everybody actually wants? I can't tell you how many times I've heard folks wanting a LotR game where you can customize your own member of the Fellowship and then follow the adventures of the trilogy. That would just be amazing.

Why would you even make a Lord of the Rings MOBA? I just...I don't understand.

Why even include Gollum in the first place?

While I like the idea of a LOTR MOBA this looks rubbish. I would never play a MOBA on console anyway, it would be so low and clumsy and would end up feeling awkward to play.

Meh not that big of a deal to me. The game is likely more based on "Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings" than the real one, and it's just a cash-in anyways.

If they want a balanced game, maybe they shouldn't put inherently imbalanced characters in mortal combat in the first place. Gandalf is basically a minor god. Don't make him playable, problem solved! I can believe Gollum stabbing a human in the back and killing him, I can even believe Gollum ambushing and killing an Uruk'Hai. But a Maia? No.

The way I see it:

Make a balanced LotR game.

Make Gandalf a playable character.

Stay true to the canon of the storyline.

You can only pick two of the three. GO.

Actually I could have sworn the only reason Gandalf didn't go full power ever in the story is because he and the other Istari were supposed to be their as guides and advisers and only could use their powers and fight if things got that bad. They are actually called Istari they aren't the same race a Sauron. Gandalf and Sauruman and the others (yes there are others Radigust the Brown I think and two Blue wizards who were mentioned once in the entire lore).

Anyways they were all sent simply as an advisory role to guide the free people of middle earth into the right direction and only use their power if absolutely necessary. In theory they could have actually destroyed Sauron themselves as kind of a last resort thing but they wanted Middle Earth to survive without to much help from the higher powers.

The only reason Gandalf actually fights is because things were getting that bad. Plus it didn't help that the white wizard turned traitor, and The Brown wizard felt that the free peoples were too corrupt, arrogant or just plain stupid to help and he only wanted to save the animals, hell the only reason the eagles helped Gandalf was because Radigust respected him enough to send help to him every once in awhile. Also the reason why we don't hear much about the 2 blue wizards is because they disappear and nobody knows what happened to them beyond probably dead.

So ya the game looks bad and i doubt Gollum could have ever killed Gandalf and them changing the stats strikes me as a bad joke.

PrinceOfShapeir:

Shjade:

FalloutJack:
The only opponents that can handle Gandalf are {A} people who can counter him like the Witch King of Angmar, {B} big powerful shit like trolls and balrogs, and {C} enemies who make it hard for him to concentrate on magic, like a badass normal whose skills with a blade are a cut above all others and they're fiercely-fast.

Or, y'know, any archer, as long as he doesn't see them shooting at him.

Gandalf's a powerful guy, but he's still just a guy. Maybe he wouldn't stay down, but I don't think it'd take a badass to put him down, just some tactical application of lethal force.

...which Gollum couldn't do, regardless.

Actually, no, Gandalf isn't a guy. While he appears to be an elderly male Human, in truth Gandalf is more akin to Sauron than he is to any of the Humans. He's a Maia, a being that is somewhere between Angel and Demigod.

Because in mythology demigods never get killed by mundane things like swords or arrows made of simple plantlife.

Oh wait. I guess that's a thing that happened.

He's a powerful guy. He's still just a guy. "Guy" being an extremely broad term that simply refers to a masculine or male figure, not necessarily human.

Show me the part of the book where he gets shot in the head and is perfectly okay with it. Then we'll talk.

Well, that and the fact that Gimli has been given Thor's hammer for no apparent reason.image

image

Deformed cave dweller in a dirty loincloth=Omnipotent demigod, who by the way actually has weaponry?

Yeah I know Gollum has some sharp teeth but teeth =/= Glamdring.

Therumancer:
To be honest I think whoever green lit this needs a stern talking to. I can see how the meeting for this game went with somone pointing out the success of DOTA/LoL type games, and suggesting that one based off of a well known liscence might be a good investment. Something like "Lord Of The Rings" has enduring popularity so I can see why it was picked, but it's really not condusive to this kind of thing at all as there really isn't much parity between characters to begin with, or even that large a roster of characters involved enough or detailed enough to be drawn on to create a huge LoL-type roster. Gollum was probably made a playable character, simply because he's a known character, and one of those people will recognize. Whether it should be viable to play him in a situation like this was probably a tertiary concern.

At any rate as this goes on, I wonder how long it will be before we see Barliman Butterburr and Glorfindel as playable characters. "Now you can dominate the battlefields of Middle Earth with everyone's favorite inkeeper! Watch has he tanks away damage with his jiggling belly self-buff, pulverizes enemies with exploding ale casks, and teleports companions away from death blows with his naruto-inspired decoy bed abillity!" (insert promotional video of Aragorn being cut down but at the last moment a puff of smoke, replacing him with a wrecked bed, with the badly injured Aragorn appearing next to Butterburr).

As far as Glorfindel goes, he's the elf that carried the injured Frodo to Rivendell, where the river was used to destroy the ring wraiths for a time. I imagine it's inevitable he'd wind up in the game because he IS a named character, god knows what he actually does though, so I guess that would give them free reign. I imagine he'd wind up being a taxi tank with the abillity to pick up team mates and protect them as he moves, while screaming "oh noes! they are after us!". Bonus points if they actually manage to get the name of his horse right. :)

Oh, oh, and let's not forget Brandiboris Bullroarer (I think I have the name right) the great hobbit hero who was big enough to actually ride a pony, and who knocked the goblin into the well with a cudgel! Bringing him back in an "ancient legends and heroes" pack would of course be awesome... :/

Then of course the good aligned answer to Gollum... Farmer Maggot... able to chase down "coward" with his own speed buff of "you stole my vegetables!".

I mean seriously, when they are already trying to make Gollum playable, just imagine how far they are going to need to stretch to fill out this roster.... anyone else have any "definate" additions. :)

Well Glorfindel was actually one of the main characters in LOTR: BFME 2. He was pretty good if you knew how to use him.

Gloin was the other, he just took down buildings like a damn bulldozer.

Go play it.

fix-the-spade:
Nevermind Gollum balancing, why can't we play as a Balrog?

Maybe make it a Godmode cheat? Summon Blarog! Stomp on everyone.
I'm from the old world biiiitttcchhess!

Ahem, does this mean that other bad guys like the Nazgul and Gothmog will be playable as well?

That would be cool.

Man I wanna be Hurin. Take on a whole damn army and wear a badass helmet while doing it!

Captcha: geronimo!
Hell yeah..

I'm kind of surprised they let the license get that far afield of the lore, even though they've certainly had to make concessions in other games. This, at best, just feels like a cheapening of the franchise. Not sure why they couldn't have just used various fighters and beasts from ME that would have been more along appropriate lines, it's not like there's a shortage of those.

As someone who doesn't care about LOTR or it's canon this game looks pretty cool and people saying it's a re-skin of lol every MOBA is essentially the exact same game.

 

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