God of War Team "Pulling Back" From Violence Against Women

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Meh.
I can understand why they'd want to sidestep controversy.
I find it a bit silly, though, seeing as Kratos is a human blender and certainly not a role model, but...

I'm not going to get all riled up about it.

veloper:
If the devs were so concearned about equality, they'd focus on giving the female NPCs an equal fighting chance against Kratos as the men.

This is the exact opposite. They're moving closer to the traditional role model. Makes sense too as the intended audience are men.

yeah cause, men all think alike and they are all pro traditional model of the woman in the kitchen, its not like they can have different opinions............

If all the women equality "organizations" (also known as frustrated housewives in most cases) had any real interest in what they say they want they'd complain about this too. Demand for women to be murdered equally brutally.

But they're not gonna do that because they are hypocrits...

mindlesspuppet:
In a few years the only enemies we'll be able to fight in games are white males in their mid 20s to late 30s.

No, any white male will do. Age doesn't matter, even children are killable as long as they are white and male.

I wonder if the feminists will stand against this. You know, them being all about equality and all.

Allthingsspectacular:
Violence against men = Entertainment, often humorous entertainment (like when a man gets kicked in the nuts)

Violence against women = omg sexist

Fixed it for you.

If you've seen the trailer for GoW: Ascension you'll notice that Kratos pushes a guy out of the line of danger. So I doubt his "gentle" disposition will only be directed toward women. And don't forget that Kratos spent the entirety of God of War 1 not killing everyone he met.

I think this is just a PR spin rather then Kratos genuinely becoming a male focused killer only. I'm sure there'll be plenty of gorgons and harpies to slice in half.

There will be less female enemies/things to kill. Probably won't even notice. Besides if it's before he went all nutbars over the loss of his family it might make sense for him to have 'soft spots' didn't he have a daughter? I've seen some pretty chauvinistic, chest-thumping, mean sumnabitch types have a daughter and they're suddenly a little more courteous to women or turn in to a giant teddy bear around said daughter. It seems reasonable.

In fairness, Kratos is at his most human in Chains of Olympus and Ghost of Sparta, before he has nothing left to live for but rage. And he's gone out of his way to save women before--the Oracle, the women on the ship being attacked by the Hydra--but those that stand in his way do not get far. Hera was a nuisance, and those don't last long around the human liquidizer. Since this is going to be a prequel, one where he'll still have some ties to a proper emotional reaction, it's safe to assume that he could even show concern for something! Gasp!

Kratos? A role-model? Fuck that noise. I'd sooner take on King Bowser as a role-model.

Okay, so they don't want to portray a negative image of women because Kratos is going to be 'kinder and gentler'? It's a little late to pull back on that now, considering the second game had you killing three women just because they wouldn't do what he wanted them to.

Sure, you may want to move away from awesome female warriors that could kick Kratos's ass, but ten bucks says there'll still be a mini-game where you use two naked women as meat pillows to earn red orbs. That's setting a much better example. At least he's not killing them right? He's just using them for sexual gratification.

Try and be as sensitive as you want, but when you continue to over sexualize women the way the God of War series does, you're still negatively representing the gender. That may not be what they're worried about, but that's the impression I get from the article.

This is the kind of "equality" that "feminists" tend to be looking for.

Kratos doesn't hate women. Kratos hates EVERYONE. The fact that he's not going to kill women, because they're women, negates the whole last act of Chains of Olympus... Oh Santa Monica. Y U SO STUPID?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sexism

sex·ism   [sek-siz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of sexual roles.
2.
discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex, as in restricted job opportunities; especially, such discrimination directed against women.

Yep, this is sexism.

Women are denied the role of being Kratos' magical and mythical opponent due to a stereotypical view of their weakness and sensitivity.

If there cannot be women to fight, or for romance, and being a peripheral character would be jsut as bad, aren't Santa Monica just writing females COMPLETELY out of the God of War universe?!?!? Even though the Greek mythology from which it draws from had a plethora of female antagonists.

This really needs to be said, this is NOT FEMINISM. Demanding that women be covered up and never even fictionally exposed to anything because they are apparently so impossibly fragile is NOT FEMINISM, it is conservatism. People like Anita Sarkeesian are just conservatives like old republicans, they just use the Feminist name as the "conservative" title has been so rightly discredited.

Jiggy:
This is the kind of "equality" that "feminists" tend to be looking for.

We are all "feminist" now, we all consider women as equals with men with their own intentions and varied abilities.

The thing is the old discredited guard of conservatives are now striking back, saying women should now cover up again and be denied active roles, they call themselves "feminist" just because they say they are working for female's cause, but really they are following THE EXACT SAME ideology of old conservatives, and back then they said they were working for women's interests by restricting what they can and cannot do.

Antita Sarkeesian is a Conservative.

No if anything we should be able to kill more women, equal rights to die all that good stuff

*sigh*

This is what I didn't want when I was defending that whole 'let's not be assholes to women' stance.

If this is genuine character development, Kratos is younger and thus less rage filled, then fine, go for it. The problem is that in the fight for equality, the developers have...

started treated women differently to men.

Equality means exactly what is says on the tin. Equal treatment of everyone. Not being overly mean to any one group in particular, but equally not being overly nice to one group at the expense of another.

"In order to avoid accusations of sexism, we're going to treat women differently from everyone else."

A plan with absolutely no drawbacks.

Are we really doing this?
Are we really pretending they are doing anything but trying to cover their own arses and they probably didn't think about it very much?
They're just trying to sidestep controversy in the laziest way.
But no, lets blame `feminists`. Fuck it, it's easier.

Wasn't the whole point of Kratos' character that he butcheres EVERYONE, until he even butchers his own family, driving him mad with revenge and bringing the whole system down in the process?

And now he's all about protecting fair maidens and stuff? I really don't see the connection.

I'm a woman and a feminist, and I'm sad to hear these news. So in this game guys can be heartless-ly dismembered and tortured, but women can't??? This is chauvinist! (I'm serious here.)

Heck, I hated Pandora a lot because it felt so completely out of character for Kratos not to cut the annoying little girl into pieces...

Phasmal:
Are we really doing this?
Are we really pretending they are doing anything but trying to cover their own arses and they probably didn't think about it very much?
They're just trying to sidestep controversy in the laziest way.
But no, lets blame `feminists`. Fuck it, it's easier.

After all the recent arguments from both sides, is it really much of a stretch that people would believe its because a fuss has been kicked up by, yes, feminists?

I mean I agree with your neutral response, but its not like its completely hard to believe that the main reason why someone would sidestep is because feminists have been working very hard to be very... bollocks, can't think of the word. Easy to see? Prominent? Something along those lines?

Here the logic behind this which is sexist.

So women are far to precious to kill and thus are weaker. That's the message this sends. Which means that women are unable to think for themselves because if they did they may want to kill the monster called Kratos. Nope instead they'll stay at home and do the dishes.

I mean if they aren't going out fighting wars or being used for sex what else is there for them to do. We here at Sony Santa Monica support women doing nothing proactive with their lives.

dogstile:

Phasmal:
Are we really doing this?
Are we really pretending they are doing anything but trying to cover their own arses and they probably didn't think about it very much?
They're just trying to sidestep controversy in the laziest way.
But no, lets blame `feminists`. Fuck it, it's easier.

After all the recent arguments from both sides, is it really much of a stretch that people would believe its because a fuss has been kicked up by, yes, feminists?

I mean I agree with your neutral response, but its not like its completely hard to believe that the main reason why someone would sidestep is because feminists have been working very hard to be very... bollocks, can't think of the word. Easy to see? Prominent? Something along those lines?

I didn't say it was hard for people to jump to conclusions.
It's much easier for me to see it as a game company looking at all the controversy and deciding they want to avoid it. I don't know how they'll do it yet, but people are already assuming GoW will now feature Gentleman Kratos, who tips his top-hat to ladies and violently stomps on mens faces.

It just reeks of the whole `feminists want to ruin our fun` thing.
The answer given seems vague to me so I can't say what I think as of yet.

Isaac59:
Here the logic behind this which is sexist.

So women are far to precious to kill and thus are weaker. That's the message this sends. Which means that women are unable to think for themselves because if they did they may want to kill the monster called Kratos. Nope instead they'll stay at home and do the dishes.

I mean if they aren't going out fighting wars or being used for sex what else is there for them to do. We here at Sony Santa Monica support women doing nothing proactive with their lives.

Thats not the logic behind this.

A bunch of people whined about the Hitman trailer where women get their asses kicked while looking sexy. Then a bunch of people whined about Laura getting brutalized.

The developers took a look at those two instances and thought "Huh, how can we shut these people up before they get going? Oh I know, Kratos can just sorta ignore the whole gender."

If people whine and make a stink about things, things change, most likely not in the way the whiners wanted.

The 'message' that this sends, if any, is that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. In this cail the oil is to make a character a lot softer so that people wont go on about it.

The problem is, that if Kratos beats women senseless like men the whiners will go "OMG SEXIST YOU CANT BEAT WOMEN!" ala Hitman. But if you say "yah ok." then you will have other whiners going "OMG SEXIST! YOU CANT NOT HAVE WOMEN GET BEATEN!" There is really no way to win.

Men are, of course, the expendable gender.

Seems counterproductive.

If they were actually worried about sexism (or knew what it looked like) then maybe they would have cut back on the gratuitous sex scenes instead.

Just remember, that this is the result you get whenever you complain about stupid stuff like virtual characters being "mistreated" or wearing the "wrong clothes".

probably won't work, but at least they wanna try. The GoW series has always had HORRENDOUSLY misogynistic overtones from the very beginning with most women cast members either being objectified or victimized. No wonder Jaffe is divorced if that's how he treated women in his games.

Buretsu:
Oh, god damn it. In other words "We've decided to use sexism to fight sexism".

Unfortunately this.

You know...they could have just done this without announcing to us they were doing this. How many people would have really noticed if in the next game Kratos didn't happen to brutally murder some woman? I sure wouldn't. In fact, until reading this article, I wouldn't have even guessed this was an issue. Who played that game and thought "oh, Kratos shouldn't be hurting that woman!" He kills men and women alike.

So what does it say that he'll treat women better but still be brutal to men? What does that even mean?

I can at least understand a "no more sexy-time mini-games" proposal, but the only way I can even remotely see this working for him as a character is if he has flashbacks to his wife and daughter before doing anything to a female bystander.

Question though - when the sequels inevitably cover all of Greek mythology and he comes across Hippolyta and the Amazons (which I'm pretty sure hasn't been covered yet in the series), what exactly is he going to do? I mean, they're a warrior nation: I doubt even they would consider "talking things out," especially with a man (now THERE's some gender issue for ya).

MelasZepheos:
*sigh*

This is what I didn't want when I was defending that whole 'let's not be assholes to women' stance.

If this is genuine character development, Kratos is younger and thus less rage filled, then fine, go for it. The problem is that in the fight for equality, the developers have...

started treated women differently to men.

Equality means exactly what is says on the tin. Equal treatment of everyone. Not being overly mean to any one group in particular, but equally not being overly nice to one group at the expense of another.

Ninja'd.

Yes, I like the idea of a VULNERABLE Lara Croft. Solid Snake in Metal Gear Solid 1 (before you say anything, I'm disregarding MGS4) for example, was VULNERABLE, he was genuinely sad when he couldn't save Meril (assuming you didn't beat the torture quick time event), but he wasn't A FUCKING DELICATE FLOWER WHO NEEDS PROTECTING.

(For the record, I haven't played the game in a long time feel free to correct me on anything to do with MGS1, but don't bring sequels into it).

Did I get this straight? They'll stop having Kratos be an equalist mass murderer and now just kill men?

What sexist gits! Next thing you know, in the next Elder Scrolls if you hit a female character-->instant game over.

Kratos is without a doubt one of the most unappealing protagonists in video game history. I'm not even talking about his treatment of women; his treatment of men is little better. He murders the innocent for selfish, stupid goals. He's a sociopathic madman and a representation of everything that is wrong with humanity.

Screw Kratos. If I had the disposable income I'd buy one of his games just to force him to stand still while the first level boss murders him over and over.

As gaming becomes more mainstream, and the development costs balloon - forcing big budget developers to seek an ever wider audience--games and gaming culture are forced to start considering societal norms and standards. As companies become known to the general public, they are forced to consider what their products are telling the public about them and their ethos. It's an inevitable, fundamental shift, and even if you don't personally view it as a good thing, it shouldn't come as a surprise. I do view it as a good thing in general, although the early steps taken, including this one, are pretty bumbling and inept. Games and gaming culture do have serious issues with underlying currents of pretty vicious sexism, as evidenced by the embarrassing parade of practically weekly debacles lately, and moves like this are the awkward flailing of a homebody dragged out into the light desperately trying to clean themselves up before anyone else sees them looking so disheveled.

As for treating violence against men and women differently, well without defending this particular case (honestly, did we need any particular reason to shake our heads at the blatant wringing of a tired old cash cow long past the point of any real innovation?), violence against men and violence against women do have significantly different connotations, not because of any reality within the game--which might be an immersive imaginary world without millenia long legacies of sexism where men and women might be treated completely equally by the game's idealized fictional society--but rather because the games themselves exist as physical objects within a world where sexism and oppression of women is very much a real thing, both historically and today, around the world and 'here' in wherever 'here' happens to be for you.

God bloody bashed in faces damnit. Don't people realise these are works of fiction and are free to be interpreted by the audience in any way they want. Probably somebody is going to use this to reinforce their beliefs that women should be removed from the earth entirely. You can't hold the studio responsible for the actions of the delirious, the studio have expressed their position on the matter and that should count not their what the thought some people gather or are reinforced by their works after all it's not like media (fictional literary works) should cause emotional responses in the audience?

Cause remember that violence against men is okay, something I'll keep in mind should we ever meet.

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