Notch: Windows 8 Could Be "Very Very Bad" for Indies

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Notch: Windows 8 Could Be "Very Very Bad" for Indies

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Notch thinks Windows 8 will either make or break indie developers.

Minecraft creator and former lead developer, Markus "Notch" Persson, has added his voice to the growing chorus of concerns about the upcoming Windows 8 OS.

"If Microsoft decides to lock down Windows 8, it would be very, very bad for Indie games and competition in general," he said during a Q&A on Reddit. "If we can keep open platforms around, there's going to be a lot of very interesting games in ten years, mixed in with the huge AAA games that we all love."

While Microsoft hasn't detailed its plans for the new operating system, it's widely believed that the company's push for an Apple-like app store will make Windows 8 far more restrictive than its predecessors. The OS has been a hot topic ever since Valve's Gabe Newell labeled it a "catastrophe."

"I think that Windows 8 is kind of a catastrophe for everybody in the PC space," he told former Microsoft Game Studios head, Ed Fries. "I think that we're going to lose some of the top-tier PC [original equipment manufacturers]. They'll exit the market. I think margins are going to be destroyed for a bunch of people. If that's true, it's going to be a good idea to have alternatives to hedge against that eventuality."

Blizzard's Rob Pardo voiced his agreement shortly after.

"[Windows 8] is not awesome for Blizzard either," he tweeted.

Source: Reddit

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Well I suppose we all could just not upgrade...

maybe.

It doesn't look good if these notable devs are worried about it.

I guess now Notch has said it, it'll suddenly become a srs bsnss issue.

That said, it is good to see more people within the industry standing up and realising that Microsoft has seemingly developed a worrying trend, and decide to speak up about it.

All these horror stories about Windows 8 are certainly enough to put me off it, and if it is even half as bad as it seems it may be, might finally be the wake up call MS needed to realise the reason they are dominating OS usage with Windows, is because of the openness, ease of use and accessibility, take that away and you have.. hmm, hopefully a poorer, more humble Microsoft.

So Microsoft is gonna take their one advantage over Apple and destroy it? That's a pretty stupid idea if you ask me

If this does happen, I hope the indie movement can find a way to survive (there's always Linux, but coding for that OS is pretty darn complicated)

Notch is a fucking retard. Only Windows on ARM is getting locked out, not Windows 8 itself. If you want to make your product and have it succeed don't put it on the Metro Store, and don't develop it for Windows on ARM.

Yes Windows 8 is going to be really bad, and it is going to bomb (probably worse than Vista), but it will have no merit, because I think that most people who game on their PCs will be sticking to Windows 7 anyways.

Notch should just stick to making mediocre games instead of trying to have an important presence in the industry, or just go on vacation again.

Well, Notch beyond any other Indie dev, has the most possible pull on Microsoft, and the one who could make it better with devs. With the smash success of Minecraft on XBLA, if it was ever pulled from the service, or Notch decided not to release his next release on the Xbox, but went only to Sony, Microsoft could lose a LOT of money. How much that would convince them, though, is another matter.

If windows 8 is going to be so bad for them they should just not develop games for it. If no one makes games for windows 8, no one upgrades to windows 8. That way everyone is happy, except maybe Microsoft.

Viper1265:
If windows 8 is going to be so bad for them they should just not develop games for it. If no one makes games for windows 8, no one upgrades to windows 8. That way everyone is happy, except maybe Microsoft.

While "possible", Microsoft and by extension PCs are the primary place for games. So companies "could" keep making games for Win 7, But those that do would take a large hit to there profits. And if Microsoft stays the course with Win 9, 10, ect, then either Linux will suddenly take off (not fucking likely) or they will be forced to change with the times.

robert01:
Notch is a fucking retard. Only Windows on ARM is getting locked out, not Windows 8 itself. If you want to make your product and have it succeed don't put it on the Metro Store, and don't develop it for Windows on ARM.

Yes Windows 8 is going to be really bad, and it is going to bomb (probably worse than Vista), but it will have no merit, because I think that most people who game on their PCs will be sticking to Windows 7 anyways.

Notch should just stick to making mediocre games instead of trying to have an important presence in the industry, or just go on vacation again.

You sound just like all the "There's still going to be a Start Menu on Win8" dumbasses.

There are plenty of places where Win8 is locked down - Microsoft will not allow anyone to produce a Metro browser, for example.

It seems odd that so many big names are just piling onto all this if "it is not as bad as it seems" really?

i have seen nothing of windows 8 that impresses me personally, i loathe the whole touchscreen look and functionality, but i half assume i can lest turn that junk orr or just not use it if i so desire.

if the next windows is as restrictive as these guys seem to be implying, then i would think MS would be rife with lawsuits and anti trust suits, really they went thru this stuff with IE, if they that crazy to make windows so propriety that developers just cannot work with it, let them dig their own graves.

Wait. There could be a day in the foreseeable future, when Apple OS is preferred over Windows OS?! Wow, that'll be the day.

Sounds lame. The only reason I like windows is because of how customizable/open it is for me to loaf around and mess with stuff.

captcha: sin, cos, tan

WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS TO ME

RvLeshrac:

robert01:
Notch is a fucking retard. Only Windows on ARM is getting locked out, not Windows 8 itself. If you want to make your product and have it succeed don't put it on the Metro Store, and don't develop it for Windows on ARM.

Yes Windows 8 is going to be really bad, and it is going to bomb (probably worse than Vista), but it will have no merit, because I think that most people who game on their PCs will be sticking to Windows 7 anyways.

Notch should just stick to making mediocre games instead of trying to have an important presence in the industry, or just go on vacation again.

You sound just like all the "There's still going to be a Start Menu on Win8" dumbasses.

There are plenty of places where Win8 is locked down - Microsoft will not allow anyone to produce a Metro browser, for example.

What? Metro is locked down, not Windows 8. Everything outside of the shit that is called Metro is still just the same Plain Jane operation system (without a Start Menu(which it actually still has to a very minor fucking degree). Windows 8 isn't going to destroy gaming the same way that Vista didn't by having Direct X 10 be exclusive to it. Everyone is just getting nervous of it becoming another walled garden (which for the most part is just Metro and WoA).

Torrasque:
Wait. There could be a day in the foreseeable future, when Apple OS is preferred over Windows OS?! Wow, that'll be the day.

No you will see these developers and OEMs embrace Linux. Apple has pretty much dug its own grave when it comes to expanding its fan base past what it already is, and based on their current attitude towards everything competition you might start to see that become smaller.

Linux on the other hand will give software developers and OEMs the freedom to do what they want.

The Aero UI and other Windows 7 features are still present in Windows 8. It's more like a Cross Platform system has been added to the Operating System. All the the original functions that Windows XP/7 had. I have the preview on my Desktop, and it's running everything fine. It's Metro is designed to be more closed off, because it's meant to communicate between Microsoft's other devices, like the Windows Phone and the XBox 360 (Cross Platform Gaming, anyone?)

But much like GFWL beforehand, nothing forces you to develop for it. Steam can continue to be Steam the way it's always been, Origin can continue to be Origin, and everyone else can still be everyone else.

Or, in simpler terms:

Gabe Newell: THE WORLD IS ENDING!
Notch: The world might be ending... not sure yet.

Fuck, does anyone not from Microsoft like this thing? Blizzard, Gabe, Notch all hate it. That's most of PC gamings heavyweights (No joke intended Gabe). If Todd Howard pops out his head now and calls it shit, then who's left? God, Microsoft, think you might be fucking up with this thing, do you? Because everyone else seems to think so!

Calumon: ...I have no idea what people are talking about, but it all sounds like silly people are being silly and they're being told that they are silly, but they're still being silly anyway because they're silly.

I think a good way to know if Windows 8 is a terrible idea is if the Activision CEO ends up being in favor of it, since he actively tries to undermine the gaming industry as hard as he can.

Guess I'm sticking with Windows 7 for awhile.

For fuck's sake, Windows 8 is not going to be Metro only. Everything I have tried (except for MagicDisc, but that was on a much older preview) works perfectly fine, I've been using Win8 for gaming for months and it's brilliant. There is still a desktop with Aero-ish UI (it's been graphically updated to look more Metro-ish) and it will still support x86 programs.

Everyone calm the fuck down.

I'm confused, do the dev's know something that we don't? Sure it's going to have a built in app store but it's not like their going to stop you from installing Steam or whatever else, Microsoft aren't that stupid because a move like that would be suicide.

I might not like metro design but at least I'm not slating an operating system which so far other than it's design has done nothing wrong, I've tried it out (both dev and release previews), it runs the same as 7 only it has a different GUI, people need to chill.

Megacherv:
For fuck's sake, Windows 8 is not going to be Metro only. Everything I have tried (except for MagicDisc, but that was on a much older preview) works perfectly fine, I've been using Win8 for gaming for months and it's brilliant. There is still a desktop with Aero-ish UI (it's been graphically updated to look more Metro-ish) and it will still support x86 programs.

Everyone calm the fuck down.

I think we both now that no matter how often or loud you voice yourself on the subject, people are going to keep doomsaying until the retail version comes out and everything turns out to be fine.

As far as I thought only the Metro thing and the app store and something else I think is locked down. I haven't paid much attention to Win 8. I suppose I'll have to do if all the big names in PC gaming shit a collective brick over it.

Linux has been dominating every other facet of computing for years now. Servers, mostly Linux. Smart phones, mostly Linux. Super computers, Over 90% Linux. It's always been inevitable that at some point the OS made by humanity itself would take over the desktop as well, and it's finally ready to do so just in time for Microsoft's second huge botch job since we've entered the post-XP world. It's time people. Accept the future.

Megacherv:
For fuck's sake, Windows 8 is not going to be Metro only. Everything I have tried (except for MagicDisc, but that was on a much older preview) works perfectly fine, I've been using Win8 for gaming for months and it's brilliant. There is still a desktop with Aero-ish UI (it's been graphically updated to look more Metro-ish) and it will still support x86 programs.

Everyone calm the fuck down.

Which begs the question as to why Windows 8 will be necessary at all assuming that any gamer worth their salt will ignore the metro stuff completely.

Windows 7 is a great OS. I love coming home and using my own desktop after having to suffer using the old XP boxes at work which are impossibly slow and unreliable (I seriously have no idea how they are so slow despite my best efforts to make them usable outside of the company intranet interface program.)
XP for the longest time was great, I used it alot and kept with it in the dark times that were windows vista until 7 was able to be tested.

Windows 8 is smelling like vista all over again. The thing I hated so much about vista was that it reminded me of OSX, the look feel and massive annoyance that was the windows security centre that popped but when you launched EVERY. DAMN. PROGRAM.

I cannot help but feel that Vista was somehow a prototype of 7 since that how it damn well felt.

Now that Windows 8 has been criticised by Valve, Blizzard and Notch is there any PC gamer out there who isn't having some doubts about it?

All we need now is for EA to announce they think it's great and it'll become completely irredeemable in most people's eyes.

I'm torn between my recently discovered love for Minecraft....

And my thoroughly enjoying anything that fucks Blizzard in the ass....

All part of Microsoft's evil conspiracy to destroy serious gaming and power users and drastically re-align with the tablet market...

Seriously, just don't touch Windows 8. If they're so intent on ignoring the needs of desktop users and dumbing down the UI, then shaft them where it hurts. Hopefully they won't break even with this condensed shit they're trying to market as a functional OS.

I don't hate Microsoft, just what they're trying to pull off this time. I hate that they're effectively shoving some annoying Tablet OS down peoples' throats.

Eric the Orange:

Viper1265:
If windows 8 is going to be so bad for them they should just not develop games for it. If no one makes games for windows 8, no one upgrades to windows 8. That way everyone is happy, except maybe Microsoft.

While "possible", Microsoft and by extension PCs are the primary place for games. So companies "could" keep making games for Win 7, But those that do would take a large hit to there profits. And if Microsoft stays the course with Win 9, 10, ect, then either Linux will suddenly take off (not fucking likely) or they will be forced to change with the times.

So here's an idea: stop playing ball with Microsoft. Don't license any new DirectX technology that's Win8 exclusive, don't take advantage of any OS or hardware features which are unique to Win8, and refuse to partner with any hardware manufacturers or PC makers who have exclusivity deals relating to Win8. These guys have all the power, Microsoft simply can't get away with dictating terms to both the hardware and software industries anymore, if both flat refused.

Of course, they won't refuse, because the corporate fuckwits who run these companies are jizzing their pants at the thought of Windows being as closed a platform as iOS; they see an opportunity to impose more draconian DRM, to implement full-on console-style DLC, and eradicate dedicated servers once and for all so they can start selling premium subscription packages like they do on the consoles. Even companies like Valve will just grumble and make a token show of resistance, but they won't do what's actually necessary to force Microsoft to rethink this course of action.

Hoorah for Capitalism, where a combination of massive "marketing" campaigns and borderline monopolisation results in an ever-worsening value for the consumer, and tells you that's what you wanted all along.

RJ 17:
I'm torn between my recently discovered love for Minecraft....

And my thoroughly enjoying anything that fucks Blizzard in the ass....

I totaly agree with that second statement.
My thoughts on windows 8 are that if it is bad, it just wont be picked up, I mean windows 7 is actually a really good os, its weird that its from MS.
If win8 sucks then I doubt many users will go for it. I don't think it was as forced as upgrading from xp was, with xp being locked at dx9.

RJ 17:
I'm torn between my recently discovered love for Minecraft....

And my thoroughly enjoying anything that fucks Blizzard in the ass....

Do you like Valve? That's your tiebreaker.

OT: Blizzard says no. Valve says no. Notch says no.

I guess it's time to pull an XP with 7. Or just start using Linux. Hang on, I have my manual for ARCH around here somewhere... probably near that elephant I beat to death with it...

Megacherv:
For fuck's sake, Windows 8 is not going to be Metro only. Everything I have tried (except for MagicDisc, but that was on a much older preview) works perfectly fine, I've been using Win8 for gaming for months and it's brilliant. There is still a desktop with Aero-ish UI (it's been graphically updated to look more Metro-ish) and it will still support x86 programs.

Everyone calm the fuck down.

Is there a reason to upgrade?

Megacherv:
For fuck's sake, Windows 8 is not going to be Metro only. Everything I have tried (except for MagicDisc, but that was on a much older preview) works perfectly fine, I've been using Win8 for gaming for months and it's brilliant. There is still a desktop with Aero-ish UI (it's been graphically updated to look more Metro-ish) and it will still support x86 programs.

Everyone calm the fuck down.

MagicDisc works very well on the new builds, so fear not. Though the included ISO Mounting thingamagig works great and I am really happy they included it in Win8.

I have tried tons of games, I have Steam, I used Photoshop/Vegas 9 and lots of other stuff. Everything works just fine. I don't even notice metro! It's just a different and more idiotic way of putting your .exe-s in a list.

Why so much paranoia?

lacktheknack:
Is there a reason to upgrade?

It starts a bit faster than 7 and has an included ISO mounter. But that's about all that I feel different in Win8...there is no difference and IMHO no reason to waste money on it.

I now relise I know very little about computers becuse this all is confusing

why is windows 8 seemingly so bad and what are ARM and metro?

Does everybody have to bash Windows 8 without actually using it? It hasn't lost anything that Windows 7 had except for the start menu being replaced (by a better start menu). Sure it has an app store/android market analogue but that's all it is...it doesn't have any significant programs on there (just apps and widgets for the Metro UI). It isn't going to bring down Steam or indie publishers.

Why does this site leg hump everything this man says. Get over him Escapist writers. He isn't news.

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