John Carmack Apologizes for Rage's "Inexcusable" PC Release

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John Carmack Apologizes for Rage's "Inexcusable" PC Release

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id Software admits that Rage's widespread driver issue was "really, really poorly handled."

Rage's launch on the PC in 2011 was marred with flaws, resulting in performance problems like texture pop-in and screen tearing. John Carmack, co-founder of id Software, acknowledged these problems in this year's QuakeCon keynote speech and has formally apologized for the shaky release.

Carmack dedicated the first few minutes of his speech to a retrospective on the post-apocalyptic shooter before moving on to its troubled PC debut. Members of the audience responded with scattered applause and calls of "thank you" after Carmack admitted that the game had performed badly in the PC space, saying that the entire situation was "really, really poorly handled".

"There's no way to, you know, to argue our way out of it one way or another," Carmack acknowledged. "The release on the PC not working for over half of our customers because of the driver issues that we had really was inexcusable on our part."

"It was optimistic na´vetÚ," he continued. "We tried to get the drivers to work the way they were supposed to, but we weren't smart about the fact that most people wouldn't have these drivers if everything had gone right." He concluded the brief discussion that the company was going to handle these issues better in the future.

Carmack also praised the "moment to moment" gameplay in Rage, saying that id did a good job in pushing for a highly responsive, fast action game. On the other hand, he criticized the game's ending and the lack of a checkpoint save system, and believed that Rage "would've been good if we spent some time to get it working right."

Despite the game's problems with graphics drivers affecting more than half of Rage's player base, Carmack still has a soft spot for the PC platform: "PC, when its working right, is far, far better."

Source: Shacknews

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My parents bought be the Quakecon pack today. I'm looking forward to playing RAGE for the first time ^^

If i remember corectly(and i probably dont), didnt he , or someone else from his studio say that pc`s are annoyng to make games for? And , besides, the game had more problems besides the whole driver thing,like beng extreamly mediocre for example.

Yeah when you spend all your time working on the graphics things are bound to slip past. Like ooooh say the game works, or the story is interesting, or there is a game there at all with any depth beyond the shiny paint. You know, the little things.

That's awfully nice of him. Nice to see someone has the guts to admit his errors.

Scorpid:
Yeah when you spend all your time working on the graphics things are bound to slip past. Like ooooh say the game works, or the story is interesting, or there is a game there at all with any depth beyond the shiny paint. You know, the little things.

When has ANY id game have Depth?

They all consist of Shooting the shit out of something. Which is why I love them.

"Writing, when its working right, is far, far better."

Capitano Segnaposto:

Scorpid:
Yeah when you spend all your time working on the graphics things are bound to slip past. Like ooooh say the game works, or the story is interesting, or there is a game there at all with any depth beyond the shiny paint. You know, the little things.

When has ANY id game have Depth?

They all consist of Shooting the shit out of something. Which is why I love them.

You can shoot the shit out of something in a game with a good story. Senseless violence is just hollow now for me. I've been playing games for awhile now and it gets old.

hino77:
If i remember corectly(and i probably dont), didnt he , or someone else from his studio say that pc`s are annoyng to make games for? And , besides, the game had more problems besides the whole driver thing,like beng extreamly mediocre for example.

He said that it makes more sense to make the game for the consoles and then porting it to the PC, rather than the other way around, and that PC is not the leading platform.

OT: It's good of him to acknowledge their mistakes and the potential of the PC. I hope that their next games would reflect that.

Would you look at that? A developer that owns up to their mistakes. I've never been a big id fan but this might be turning me.

RAGE had one of the best shooting mechanics I've played in a single-player FPS in a very long time but it's biggest problem is all the bullshit between the fantastic shooty bits. The uninteresting story, the writing, the goddamn driving, the pointless open-world, the "RPG" mechanics... and so on.

Honestly I don't think there is much to say, I hope people learn from both Brink and Rage, to not buy any PC game that has Id tech. Seriously Brink comes out and is ported over with Id tech and it has a boatload of problems, Rage comes out a few months later and has the exact same problems, they either didn't learn or just didn't care. Either case I won't buy their lazy and poorly ported games anymore.

Rednog:
Honestly I don't think there is much to say, I hope people learn from both Brink and Rage, to not buy any PC game that has Id tech. Seriously Brink comes out and is ported over with Id tech and it has a boatload of problems, Rage comes out a few months later and has the exact same problems, they either didn't learn or just didn't care. Either case I won't buy their lazy and poorly ported games anymore.

Agreed.

And seriously, people applauding him for an apology that's almost a YEAR overdue? Too little too late.

This is something an younger carmack would never have put out, when he was still making pc games and doing it better than most anyone else.

but he could port the game running over to an iphone on a weekend, but never bothered to make sure the game ran on a pc....

"PC, when its working right, is far, far better."

Surely that should be "PC, when it's products are working right, is far, far better"

But did they ever actually fix those issues, or is the game in its current state still unplayable?

Steve the Pocket:
But did they ever actually fix those issues, or is the game in its current state still unplayable?

Playable, more the graphic glitches are still present to some degree (at least on Nvidia).

PC is a great platform, but the downside is hardware. There's no real standards when it comes to drivers and hardware, and not all gamers are hardware buffs. Thus creating the problem of faulty ass drivers and crappy ass hardware interfering with games functionality.
It sucks ass, I know. Moreover its tough for developers to accommodate every single piece of hardware imaginable. I'd be much happier if developers decided to make their own standards and just refuse to program games for shit hardware. Sucks for the low-end budget gamer, but I learned long ago that researching your hardware is a must-do when being a gamer.
Still its nice of Carmack to admit he's not infallible.

amaranth_dru:
PC is a great platform, but the downside is hardware. There's no real standards when it comes to drivers and hardware, and not all gamers are hardware buffs. Thus creating the problem of faulty ass drivers and crappy ass hardware interfering with games functionality.
It sucks ass, I know. Moreover its tough for developers to accommodate every single piece of hardware imaginable. I'd be much happier if developers decided to make their own standards and just refuse to program games for shit hardware. Sucks for the low-end budget gamer, but I learned long ago that researching your hardware is a must-do when being a gamer.
Still its nice of Carmack to admit he's not infallible.

Considering there are only two major players in the graphics world and Carmack had to have run it on something (as I remember it they use AMD, which would explain why it's worse on Nvidia), so it wouldn't have been THAT much out of their way to test in on Nvidia hardware and tell them something isn't right (maybe they did), although I don't understand why Nvidia didn't contact the grandfather of shooters when they knew he was making Rage (maybe they did)...

2012

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118891-John-Carmack-Apologizes-for-Rages-Inexcusable-PC-Release

"Despite the game's problems with graphics drivers affecting more than half of Rage's player base, Carmack still has a soft spot for the PC platform: "PC, when its working right, is far, far better."

2011

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/58964-pc-gaming-is-dead-even-id-says-so

"Company frontman John Carmack shocked everyone when he recently provided this quote: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games. That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version."

FUCK YOU JOHN.

Fluoxetine:
2012

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118891-John-Carmack-Apologizes-for-Rages-Inexcusable-PC-Release

"Despite the game's problems with graphics drivers affecting more than half of Rage's player base, Carmack still has a soft spot for the PC platform: "PC, when its working right, is far, far better."

2011

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/58964-pc-gaming-is-dead-even-id-says-so

"Company frontman John Carmack shocked everyone when he recently provided this quote: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games. That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version."

FUCK YOU JOHN.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was about to link. The guy basically threw blame at everyone but id and then even goes on to insult the platform that made id a company. One year, he apologizes and people are thinking he's a nice guy?

And this:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113479-Graphics-Card-Drivers-To-Blame-For-Rages-PC-Issues
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113564-John-Carmack-PC-Is-Not-the-Leading-Platform-for-Games

Absolutionis:

Fluoxetine:
2012

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118891-John-Carmack-Apologizes-for-Rages-Inexcusable-PC-Release

"Despite the game's problems with graphics drivers affecting more than half of Rage's player base, Carmack still has a soft spot for the PC platform: "PC, when its working right, is far, far better."

2011

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/58964-pc-gaming-is-dead-even-id-says-so

"Company frontman John Carmack shocked everyone when he recently provided this quote: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games. That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version."

FUCK YOU JOHN.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was about to link. The guy basically threw blame at everyone but id and then even goes on to insult the platform that made id a company. One year, he apologizes and people are thinking he's a nice guy?

And this:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113479-Graphics-Card-Drivers-To-Blame-For-Rages-PC-Issues
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113564-John-Carmack-PC-Is-Not-the-Leading-Platform-for-Games

Exactly. This isn't business and this isn't fanboyism. This is a shifty asshole who took everyone's money for a lackluster product that didn't work, slapped them in the face and then shrugged his shoulders and said "Sorry!" a year later. Nevermind not buying his games, I honestly just want to hit him.

John... I love PC gaming, heck, I love gaming in general, thanks to your little game called Doom (and thanks to my godfather for letting me tinker with his brand new 486 back in the mid 90's) and my love for PC gaming got reinforced by Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory. I hold both games dearly and I always have them both installed in my harddrive.

That said, John, you're full of shit. You said last year that PC gaming was an annoyance and now you say that "when it works" is the better platform. How about, "when your game works". Asshole.

Fluoxetine:
2012

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118891-John-Carmack-Apologizes-for-Rages-Inexcusable-PC-Release

"Despite the game's problems with graphics drivers affecting more than half of Rage's player base, Carmack still has a soft spot for the PC platform: "PC, when its working right, is far, far better."

2011

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/58964-pc-gaming-is-dead-even-id-says-so

"Company frontman John Carmack shocked everyone when he recently provided this quote: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games. That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version."

FUCK YOU JOHN.

To be fair, those aren't conflicting statements at all. He might truly think PC is the best platform when it's working right, but getting everything right is clearly not the priority. Making more money out of the bigger console audience is. He's not a tool, just a sellout.

Doom972:

hino77:
If i remember corectly(and i probably dont), didnt he , or someone else from his studio say that pc`s are annoyng to make games for? And , besides, the game had more problems besides the whole driver thing,like beng extreamly mediocre for example.

He said that it makes more sense to make the game for the consoles and then porting it to the PC, rather than the other way around, and that PC is not the leading platform.

OT: It's good of him to acknowledge their mistakes and the potential of the PC. I hope that their next games would reflect that.

He isn't really acknowledging their mistakes to be honest, this is just more PR BS to get you to be more open to purchasing RAGE II after they crapped all over PC gamers. I really hope you guys don't eat up this crap. It shouldn't be an accepted practice to crap all over PC gamers and blame them for the studio messing up then when they turn around for a brief moment and say sorry our bad we forgive them and shell out another $60 to have it happen again.

It's nice to see them take some responsibility for Rage's shortcomings. I felt that the game was overall a good game though some things could have been handled better. My biggest pet peeve is honestly the map designs. I can stand the texure pop on and the lack of check points, but I can't stand a modern game that has this mapping issue: It should not look like you can go somewhere and then there is an invisible wall stopping you. This was rampant in any cave or area where there was a lot do debris around. But, I liked it. I think they put way too much work into production (aka, getting famous voices in the game) and not enough into overall design. Some of the menus were terrible and the mission system was just plain confusing. These issue were easily solved by playing the game for a little bit, but they should be more intuitive than anything else.

Fluoxetine:
2012

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118891-John-Carmack-Apologizes-for-Rages-Inexcusable-PC-Release

"Despite the game's problems with graphics drivers affecting more than half of Rage's player base, Carmack still has a soft spot for the PC platform: "PC, when its working right, is far, far better."

2011

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/58964-pc-gaming-is-dead-even-id-says-so

"Company frontman John Carmack shocked everyone when he recently provided this quote: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games. That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version."

FUCK YOU JOHN.

He made two completely unrelated comments in your quotes. One, he said it was a better platform when it's working right: This is true, it's more open and it is significantly more powerful. Two, he said that consoles are where the larger gaming audiences are present: This is also a fact. The vast majority of gamers buy consoles, not PC's. They are cheaper and upgrade free for 5-10 years.

Likewise, his statements here are not counter acting of anything you quoted. Such hostility! Just as a mention, I'm not trying to start a flame war, just making casual observations.

ThreeKneeNick:
He might truly think PC is the best platform when it's working right, but getting everything right is clearly not the priority. Making more money out of the bigger console audience is. He's not a tool, just a sellout.

Well, spaceships aren't cheap, you know?

Nalgas D. Lemur:

ThreeKneeNick:
He might truly think PC is the best platform when it's working right, but getting everything right is clearly not the priority. Making more money out of the bigger console audience is. He's not a tool, just a sellout.

Well, spaceships aren't cheap, you know?

Oh look a that. It's all okay then. :)

Fluoxetine:
2012

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118891-John-Carmack-Apologizes-for-Rages-Inexcusable-PC-Release

"Despite the game's problems with graphics drivers affecting more than half of Rage's player base, Carmack still has a soft spot for the PC platform: "PC, when its working right, is far, far better."

2011

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/58964-pc-gaming-is-dead-even-id-says-so

"Company frontman John Carmack shocked everyone when he recently provided this quote: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games. That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version."

FUCK YOU JOHN.

Why? Those two statements aren't contradicting themselfs at all.

Baresark:

Fluoxetine:
2012

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/118891-John-Carmack-Apologizes-for-Rages-Inexcusable-PC-Release

"Despite the game's problems with graphics drivers affecting more than half of Rage's player base, Carmack still has a soft spot for the PC platform: "PC, when its working right, is far, far better."

2011

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/58964-pc-gaming-is-dead-even-id-says-so

"Company frontman John Carmack shocked everyone when he recently provided this quote: "We do not see the PC as the leading platform for games. That statement will enrage some people, but it is hard to characterize it otherwise; both console versions will have larger audiences than the PC version."

FUCK YOU JOHN.

He made two completely unrelated comments in your quotes. One, he said it was a better platform when it's working right: This is true, it's more open and it is significantly more powerful. Two, he said that consoles are where the larger gaming audiences are present: This is also a fact. The vast majority of gamers buy consoles, not PC's. They are cheaper and upgrade free for 5-10 years.

Likewise, his statements here are not counter acting of anything you quoted. Such hostility! Just as a mention, I'm not trying to start a flame war, just making casual observations.

I knew someone on this board would nitpick and try to defend him. That is not a casual observation; You ARE trying to start a flame war, but I'll keep it civil and simple.

The very concept that a PC is "not working right" is directly in contention with any realm of physical thought. PC's and consoles share quite a bit of the same hardware, so to imply that PC's "don't work right" is self defeating. Sure, the PC doesn't work when you toss it out the window, but neither does the PS3. The difference? Sony sues you when you toss the PS3 out the window.

No wait, I know what you are going to say. He was referring to PC software and operating systems, not hardware. There's just so much to nail down in terms of varying graphics card drivers, OS versions, and even processor technology! Sure these systems are great when you get the exact right combination of all these elements, but how can a dev possibly get stable builds working on ALL those variations.

Let's look at a tiny sampling of the few, elite game projects to have successfully pulled off releases across the PC and console in 2011:

DC Universe Online
Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 3
Venetica
Dead Space 2
Two Worlds II
Test Drive Unlimited 2
Battle High: San Bruno
You Don't Know Jack
Bulletstorm
Gray Matter
Major League Baseball 2K11
Homefront
Top Spin 4
Crysis 2
Lego Star Wars III: The Clone Wars
Ghostbusters: Sanctum of Slime

Wow they actually got lucky this year and got several titles ou...oh wait..that was just the first quarter.

And by the same definition of these releases existing at all, he's completely off base in calling any platform "a leading platform for games" because he can't even get a release off between the two in the first place.

Face it, he backpedaled harder than Liu Kang holding light kick for -5 seconds. And you expect me to buy into it? GTFO.

Well played, JC... It's nice to see Carmack owning his (and by extension, teams) mistakes. I played RAGE on PC and really enjoyed it, it's actually a very enjoyable title with a lot going for it, but it was pretty busted out the door... Didn't work at all on the card I first tried it with.

Initially, he was blaming multiplatforming focus and video card manufacturers to pass off responsibility, so it's nice to see him turn that around, partly because he IS in a position of influence and people look to him.

Basically, he's in a position to be arrogant and get away with it, so it's nice to see some humility, even if it's after the fact.

That's just my take though, others might have a better framework or more refined view on the subject.

EDIT: I see a lot of others aren't as impressed. I don't really know the whole story, so while I do think in principle it was a gesture of good will, I'm open to the notion that it might be outweighted by other dickish behavior I'm not aware of. Don't dogpile me, plz :P

Fluoxetine:

Baresark:

Fluoxetine:
snip

He made two completely unrelated comments in your quotes. One, he said it was a better platform when it's working right: This is true, it's more open and it is significantly more powerful. Two, he said that consoles are where the larger gaming audiences are present: This is also a fact. The vast majority of gamers buy consoles, not PC's. They are cheaper and upgrade free for 5-10 years.

Likewise, his statements here are not counter acting of anything you quoted. Such hostility! Just as a mention, I'm not trying to start a flame war, just making casual observations.

I knew someone on this board would nitpick and try to defend him. That is not a casual observation; You ARE trying to start a flame war, but I'll keep it civil and simple.

The very concept that a PC is "not working right" is directly in contention with any realm of physical thought. PC's and consoles share quite a bit of the same hardware, so to imply that PC's "don't work right" is self defeating. Sure, the PC doesn't work when you toss it out the window, but neither does the PS3. The difference? Sony sues you when you toss the PS3 out the window.

No wait, I know what you are going to say. He was referring to PC software and operating systems, not hardware. There's just so much to nail down in terms of varying graphics card drivers, OS versions, and even processor technology! Sure these systems are great when you get the exact right combination of all these elements, but how can a dev possibly get stable builds working on ALL those variations.

Let's look at a tiny sampling of the few, elite game projects to have successfully pulled off releases across the PC and console in 2011:

DC Universe Online
Mass Effect 2
Mass Effect 3
Venetica
Dead Space 2
Two Worlds II
Test Drive Unlimited 2
Battle High: San Bruno
You Don't Know Jack
Bulletstorm
Gray Matter
Major League Baseball 2K11
Homefront
Top Spin 4
Crysis 2
Lego Star Wars III: The Clone Wars
Ghostbusters: Sanctum of Slime

Wow they actually got lucky this year and got several titles ou...oh wait..that was just the first quarter.

And by the same definition of these releases existing at all, he's completely off base in calling any platform "a leading platform for games" because he can't even get a release off between the two in the first place.

Face it, he backpedaled harder than Liu Kang holding light kick for -5 seconds. And you expect me to buy into it? GTFO.

No, I'm not starting a flame war, I was only making an observation. You seemed to know my response to the first part. He could only be talking from the perspective of software as he is a software programmer/designer.

You named a bunch of successful console ports, but for everyone of the perfectly working ones you described, there is 1 console port that did not work, some not at all on release.

I thought I pointed this out already but I'll try again. He calls them leading platforms because that is where most of the game playing population exists. He didn't refer to them as more powerful or better to work on, only that is the goal of any profit seeking company first and foremost, to occupy the sections where you will get the most business from your product.

Also, I'm not defending him, you should really stop trying so hard to be offended by what people say. I'm glad he finally took responsibility for what the RAGE port had as short comings. But I reiterate my main point, which was to point out that things you quoted are not contradictory to each other or this.

I get what you are trying to do, post a record with quotes about his seesawing back and forth on the issue of PC Gaming. I'm not even saying he did not seesaw. Once again, my responses on this are to your direct quotes, not on the issue itself. My post was meant to be informative, which is why I said I was not trying to start an argument. But your use of exclamations and inflammatory language such as calling my comment nitpicking and defensive to John Carmac, when they were not either of those things is not you being civilized.

Fluoxetine:

Baresark:

Fluoxetine:

I don't get it, those two quotes are not contradicting themselves. It's actually a solid statement: "PC gaming is the best when done right, but It's not the leading platform" I imagine that what he meant with "working right" is when the game lets you use the advantages of PC gaming or when it's working without bugs; and by the way, computers do fail. A computer is not working right when it overheats, or when it bluescreens, so it's not outside the realm of physical thought.

The majority of the games you mentioned are CONSOLE ports, which means they were developed for consoles first and then ported to PC. The fact that there was means that there's still a market for PC games, but the fact that most of these are ports means that it's not the leading platform. The reason this port in particular was a disaster has to do with the fact that it was made on a new engine, this, when combined with the fact that it was a huge game means that there were going to be bugs which they should have definetly spent more time erasing

Also, the fact that people have different opinions doesn't mean they are trying to start a flame war. I know it's jarring that one of the most influential men in the PC gaming industry is not doing justice to the platform that gave him a job. But that doesn't mean that you should be so hostile to people in a forum. Chill out a bit

Kungfu_Teddybear:
"PC, when its working right, is far, far better."

Surely that should be "PC, when it's products are working right, is far, far better"

This is what I wanted to say. My PC works fine, and runs everything fine. The only game in the last year I've had problems with was RAGE. Go figure.

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