Dark Souls Port Brings Console Problems to PC

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Karloff:
PC uses the very same 1024x720 internal framebuffer as the console versions, regardless of which resolution has been set in the menus.

You lie! I refuse to believe it. Why do you spread these horrible, horrible lies?!

cjacks:
Lovely Mixture, what is that crap??

PC gamers begged and pleaded for a port, and they got one in a timely manner, it is horrifically conceded for you to expect FROM to put in the work to make an optimized port, when what they would get for their hard work is post like this discouraging people from buying the game.

How can you expect a company to sink money and manpower into optizing a game for modern graphics when PC gamers will refuse to buy a game because they heard from some reviews that the framer ate isn't flawless.

Look up the RockPaperShotgun hands on review right now and tell me where it says there that the game isnt worth every penny? My point is that PC gamers have come to equate graphics with quality and they have little respect for how graphics improvements work. Now you say that you cannot support this behavior? Who are you? It is one thing to criticize a game developer for making a bad design choice and another entirely to complain cause you don't think they kissed your ass quite hard enough

Rant over

You insult me by assuming that PC gamers care only about graphics, when we petitioned for that port we didn't expect them to bend over backwards for us. I can't speak for anyone else but all I expected from them was two things: no GWFL, and the option to change the F***ing resolution. It's too bad, but I'll get over it and play something else.

And I don't think anyone here is complaining that they didn't turn it into a piece of eye candy.

I may have been a little harsh, but I have to say that I am highly biased on this point. Dark Souls changed the way I play games. After playing as a deprived character through the entire story into new game+ I can't play any game on easy or even normal difficulty without getting bored. I now play every new game I find on the hardest difficulty trying to recreate the experience. I absolutely loved Dark Souls, and i am just a little angered when I hear people say they won't play it for non gameplay related reasons.

"On close inspection, it appears that Dark Souls PC uses the very same 1024x720 internal framebuffer as the console versions, regardless of which resolution has been set in the menus."

Da fuq? How does this even happen? That's plain being lazy.

cjacks:
I may have been a little harsh, but I have to say that I am highly biased on this point. Dark Souls changed the way I play games. After playing as a deprived character through the entire story into new game+ I can't play any game on easy or even normal difficulty without getting bored. I now play every new game I find on the hardest difficulty trying to recreate the experience. I absolutely loved Dark Souls, and i am just a little angered when I hear people say they won't play it for non gameplay related reasons.

I get what you're saying, from what I've heard about Dark Souls it sounds like a great game, and I could enjoy it with a slower framerate and limited configuration options, but producing an image less that half the size of my monitor would be a significant barrier to enjoying the game.

The graphics-like-on-console part doesn't really bother me as much as the frame cap does.

I really hope they remove the frame cap.

But I'm still getting the game, not really put off by this.

thethird0611:

Carnagath:
Snip

A great change for the industry is coming. Its called PC gamers now see why you dont petition a developer who explicitly states, 'Hey, we suck at PC ports', and hope for freaking Crysis on their computer.

Oh my, you get EXACTLY the same as console gamers, as well as FREE, let me say again, -FREE- content that consoles have to pay for.

Man, they suck so much. Its all their fault and they should tank so every developer knows not to listen to the PC crowd about porting console games.

To everyone else, I support porting, but I mean cmon, if you dont support this developer, alot of developers wont bother. From Software seriously took a chance because of the PC petition, and im glad about that.

It's not the graphics people care about, I highly doubt anyone seriously expected them to remaster the game for a port. It's the framerate and resolution. I gave up consoles long ago because 30/24 fps is just painful to play on, and 720p is horrid in comparison to 1080p. The least they could do is sort those two things out, I imagine they're the two easiest possible fixes you can make to a game.

While the game does look interesting, I'll be waiting for a fix or a hack to sort the framerate and resolution before buying.

I don't really understand the whole entitlement claims some people seem to be throwing around. What it really boils down to is that if I don't see the features I want I will not buy the game, From will not get my money and I will not play the game. I'm not entitled to get something from From and From is not entitled to get something from me.

I must admit that I did sign the petition because I really wanted to play Dark Souls on my PC. Now what people seem to be missing is that when PC gamers sign a petition like this they're hoping for the game to be brought to their platform and what they're asking for is that it would work on their platform. As far as I'm concerned not supporting the most common resolutions means that the game is not actually working properly on the platform.

I'm not expecting the game to have any extra options for graphics, even any AA, I don't need higher res textures, I don't even need support for 16:10 or 4:3 screens, I don't expect it to support my SLI setup, I don't even really care that much about the 30fps cap since most of the time it can be disabled by tweaking some stuff. I'm happy doing some crap myself in order to fix some of this stuff and I can even deal with most of it without fixes, but the resolution...

I can't remember a single game in the last 10 years or so that didn't support higher resolutions than 720p. Even 99% of the obscure indie titles I've played have managed to support resolutions like any software sold on the PC should.

Supporting resolutions is just something that every single developer developing a game for the PC does. Even every single console port I've played has had proper resolution support. It's not something you can fault PC gamers for, no one could have expected to not have our monitors supported in the final release, it's not something you need to mention to the developer.

Also, like the forum, been lurking for a while and decided to register. Hi everyone.

Baresark:

It honestly sounds to me that the PC version is far superior to the game that I played for 130 hours on my PS3.

It sounds like it isn't actually superior, the framerate is simply smoother because it's running on a faster machine.

I don't see a problem. Those who prefer PC can get everything that was on consoles + extra content free. It's not superior to, say PS3 version, but it's just as good and has additional content.

gnihton:

thethird0611:

Carnagath:
Snip

A great change for the industry is coming. Its called PC gamers now see why you dont petition a developer who explicitly states, 'Hey, we suck at PC ports', and hope for freaking Crysis on their computer.

Oh my, you get EXACTLY the same as console gamers, as well as FREE, let me say again, -FREE- content that consoles have to pay for.

Man, they suck so much. Its all their fault and they should tank so every developer knows not to listen to the PC crowd about porting console games.

To everyone else, I support porting, but I mean cmon, if you dont support this developer, alot of developers wont bother. From Software seriously took a chance because of the PC petition, and im glad about that.

It's not the graphics people care about, I highly doubt anyone seriously expected them to remaster the game for a port. It's the framerate and resolution. I gave up consoles long ago because 30/24 fps is just painful to play on, and 720p is horrid in comparison to 1080p. The least they could do is sort those two things out, I imagine they're the two easiest possible fixes you can make to a game.

While the game does look interesting, I'll be waiting for a fix or a hack to sort the framerate and resolution before buying.

Oh, so PC gamers are spoiled then? You know, I wonder why its always "Console gamers only care about graphics and not story!", and not the other way around.

The frame rate and resolution (which are exactly the same on consoles), look beautiful. This is a company who knows nothing about PC games, and is making it look like the work of art it is on consoles, which is still amazingly beautiful.

No, I take your response as "We just care about graphics more than you, its not the difficulty, or story, or any of that, its the graphics." Hell, I just cant wait until you play the game and say "Wait, theres no story", because you care to much about graphics and not the details.

cjacks:
Lovely Mixture, what is that crap??
PC gamers begged and pleaded for a port, and they got one in a timely manner,

Yeah timeliness is not always the best thing, in fact it has ruined games (and others things) due to publishers repeatedly asking for impossible deadlines. I'd rather get a finished and refined product then get a sub-par product.

cjacks:

it is horrifically conceded for you to expect FROM to put in the work to make an optimized port,

Why is that conceded? People have released bad ports previously and people have complained. Doesn't make it right or wrong, but it's clearly an issue.

cjacks:

when what they would get for their hard work is post like this discouraging people from buying the game.

No one is telling anyone what to do. I simply said what I'm going to do.

cjacks:

How can you expect a company to sink money and manpower into optizing a game for modern graphics when PC gamers will refuse to buy a game because they heard from some reviews that the framer ate isn't flawless.

Easy, actually make the game optimized. People would respect that, and might buy it. Shouldn't they try and open the game up for all audiences?

cjacks:

Look up the RockPaperShotgun hands on review right now and tell me where it says there that the game isnt worth every penny?

Irrelevant. I didn't even say the game was bad.

cjacks:

My point is that PC gamers have come to equate graphics with quality and they have little respect for how graphics improvements work.

And as I meant to imply if it were not obvious, you are generalizing PC gamers. PC gamers is close to becoming a buzzword at this point, everyone has their own definition.

I play on console and PC, I don't care about the graphics, I care about consistency.

cjacks:
Now you say that you cannot support this behavior?

I don't exactlt, but as I said, the issue isn't as simple as the graphics.

cjacks:

Who are you? It is one thing to criticize a game developer for making a bad design choice and another entirely to complain cause you don't think they kissed your ass quite hard enough

Rant over

Those can't be mutually exclusive?
For many people in this thread, not allowing higher resolution is An INCREDIBLY bad design choice. Just because you don't think it is doesn't make it the "truth."

cjacks:
I absolutely loved Dark Souls, and i am just a little angered when I hear people say they won't play it for non gameplay related reasons.

Fine, then stop equating "I'm not going to buy/play it" with "I'm not going to buy/play it cause the graphics aren't perfect"

I love Dark Souls just as much as you do, that's why I feel so strongly that the experience should be optimized well for the PC.

thethird0611:

Oh, so PC gamers are spoiled then? You know, I wonder why its always "Console gamers only care about graphics and not story!", and not the other way around.

The frame rate and resolution (which are exactly the same on consoles), look beautiful. This is a company who knows nothing about PC games, and is making it look like the work of art it is on consoles, which is still amazingly beautiful.

No, I take your response as "We just care about graphics more than you, its not the difficulty, or story, or any of that, its the graphics." Hell, I just cant wait until you play the game and say "Wait, theres no story", because you care to much about graphics and not the details.

Strawman much? Yes we get it, you think the resolution and frame-rate are fine.

To all you PC gamers that are moaning about this. DEAL WITH IT. You shouldn't even be getting a port of this game but your constant complaining ended up getting you something that you are going to complain more about?

Judgement101:
To all you PC gamers that are moaning about this. DEAL WITH IT. You shouldn't even be getting a port of this game but your constant complaining ended up getting you something that you are going to complain more about?

More generalizations? Read the thread. And petition =/= complaining.

I believe this can be completely summed up with the phrase "Beggars can't be choosers."

Look at the bright side, now people with ten year old hardware can play too!

As I have been completely picked apart in this thread I feel I must defend myself. I was actually going to let this thread lie, but I just can't. So here I go.

First of all, I understand breaking my comments down into smaller sections, but I believe you may have distorted my views in several places with this feature and I would appreciate it if you would include a full text in these situations in the future.

Secondly, I believe there was an apology for some of those comments which you failed to post as well. I got a little heated in my rant post and am sorry for anything I said that was truly unfair.

Finally I have to say that my issue does not lie with anyone who has played this game already. If you have a PS3 or XBOX copy of Dark Souls then please disregard the following. Those of you who have not played the game and who petitioned and posted that FROM should port DS are almost obligated to buy the game. I am projecting slightly, I have one friend in particular who will not buy the game because he read that it was going to be bad on a forum. He claims that even though he passionately wept for DS on the PC that a copy which does not meet his expectations is unacceptable. He and anyone else who is in the same position are free to go jam their 8 button wireless mouse up their ass, because this is unacceptable.

If you own a gaming pc, then you are going to have to work a little harder for the upkeep and to get the things you want out of it. End of storie, you just will. Think of it as your "not supporting Microsoft or Sony tariff". There is nothing wrong with being a PC gamer and I am one as well, notice my steam ID in my profile, but I do feel that there is a slight disconnect when someone spends $1200 on a new ATX extended style quad core PC and then show it off to me in a superior manner. (This happens don't deny it) then you tell me all about how hard it is to deal with all this stuff.

Here is a radical idea, find an older monitor (you have access to a few) and use it to play dark souls, or just play it extended on your monitor and try it out. Run some graphics enhancements or call FROM and suggest a work around, but don't bitch about it on this forum, go out and use your brain to find a fix. You are all smart or else you wouldn't have been able to build a pc in the first place, come on PC gamers, you proved that you love this game when you worked so hard to get it ported, so dont give up on it so easy.

Some genius will probably come up with an unofficial fix. Games this big always have a good fan support. Besides, just because the game will ship with all those issues doesn't mean that developers won't release a patch later on.

thethird0611:

Oh, so PC gamers are spoiled then? You know, I wonder why its always "Console gamers only care about graphics and not story!", and not the other way around.

The frame rate and resolution (which are exactly the same on consoles), look beautiful. This is a company who knows nothing about PC games, and is making it look like the work of art it is on consoles, which is still amazingly beautiful.

No, I take your response as "We just care about graphics more than you, its not the difficulty, or story, or any of that, its the graphics." Hell, I just cant wait until you play the game and say "Wait, theres no story", because you care to much about graphics and not the details.

Well, I'm bloody sorry that I like to play games rather than slideshows.

You can keep your shitty low standards if you want, but trying to make anyone else out to be 'spoiled' because they don't share your poor eyesight is pathetic, you're like a blind parent demanding to have your children blinded because you don't want them to lead a better life than yourself.

Edit: And to reiterate, I couldn't care less about the graphics, which is apparently something you've ignored from every single post from a pc gamer so far. In fact, you seem to be obsessed by the idea that pc gamers only care about graphics... do I sense some envy?

I'm buying it, because seriously most assholes wouldn't even have noticed if they hadn't come clean and I Want to support this. They brought a game I wanted to the PC and I'm really looking forward to playing it. Ergo, I'm voting with my wallet, this is NOT a big deal, grow the hell up.

PC Players:* Hey! Why's Dark Souls console exclusive? That's a hard game! We love hard games! Port it to PC!

From Software: Alright. Please be aware of the fact that we have no previous experience with PC games, and this port will have a lot of the same problems that the console versions have. We apologize for the inconvenience.

PC Players:* What? It won't be better than the console versions? What is this blasphemy against the glorious PC gaming master race?!

This is coming from a guy who has both a PC and a PS3 and will be getting it on PC. Modders are going to fix this stuff anyway, right? Hi-rez texture packs, framerate cap removal...

*Julius-Seizure is aware of and acknowledges the fact that the views expressed in this post are not representative of the views of PC gamers as a whole. Please don't kill me.

(I registered an account just to post this after lurking for four years. I don't know how to change the size of my words. Hello Escapist!)

Julius-Seizure:
PC Players:* What? It won't be better than the console versions? What is this blasphemy against the glorious PC gaming master race?!

Unless you're parodying your own views on this, this is not about having a "better" version than consoles. This is about having a good version on PC. And these completely shitty visual specs are anything but good. Never mind the actual graphics of the game, which already people weren't even expecting would get reworked (stuff like textures getting an HD treatment at the minimum).

cjacks:

First of all, I understand breaking my comments down into smaller sections, but I believe you may have distorted my views in several places with this feature and I would appreciate it if you would include a full text in these situations in the future.

I didn't do anything except analyze what you wrote, the text is there in pieces for ease of reading. But if you want to recant anything you said, then by all means do so.

cjacks:

Secondly, I believe there was an apology for some of those comments which you failed to post as well.

Just because I didn't quote that, doesn't mean I didn't acknowledge it. I ended my post to you on a lighter note to do that, I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.

I'd say just to keep your projecting in order, it creates some argumentative confusion.

What's so wrong with 30fps and console-based graphics if the PC version has been tweaked and adds new content? I don't really see how this can be complaint worthy. Sure, they probably could have made a better port, but it's not like they just sat on their thumbs until the last minute and changed all the xbox controls to mouse and keyboard- they still added things and fixed things. I'd wait and reserve judgement until after the game comes out.

Hammeroj:

Julius-Seizure:
PC Players:* What? It won't be better than the console versions? What is this blasphemy against the glorious PC gaming master race?!

Unless you're parodying your own views on this, this is not about having a "better" version than consoles. This is about having a good version on PC. And these completely shitty visual specs are anything but good. Never mind the actual graphics of the game, which already people weren't even expecting would get reworked (stuff like textures getting an HD treatment at the minimum).

Are you saying that having the same version of the game as the consoles makes it a bad PC game? The version that reaped positive reviews worldwide, received awards for the musical score, level design and atmosphere, and has some of the best boss fights of this generation?

None of that praise is directed at the graphics, and why should it be? The gameplay is solid, the atmosphere is excellent and the level design is great. Is making it look pretty really all that important? I certainly don't think it is.

Well, it's on GFWL anyway so I probably wasn't going to get it anyway. I'll stick to my PS3 copy.

MonkeyPunch:

Kheapathic:
You know I don't think it's elitism or entitlement as much as it looks like. It's everyone trying to justify their investment. Try playing the game to have fun, not to justify your shitty attitude and the rig you spent so much money on.

That's the lamest and most thoughtless run-on-the-mill response to a PC game related thread like this one there is. It borders on trolling.

I could write paragraphs as to why that response is inane but I shall refrain.
Or maybe I can condense it: If you bought a console game for your console of choice and it was not optimised for it and you were a bit miffed, would that be entitlement and a reason to justify your console purchase?
Secondly: So the multi-million PC players ALL have a super expensive rig who want to play this game?

I don't see how it's run-on-the-mill, most people say elitism or other things when I've seen a few posts of "I don't want it like that, I want it like this because what I have can support that." There's nothing wrong with wanting what can be, but expecting it from an untested developer is simply stupid and misguided. I also welcome you paragraphs but will still answer your question.

I enjoy playing my PS3 and not all the games I play are optimized for it; as most people know games are made for the 360 and then ported/emulated on other software. However at the same time I don't bitch and whine over stuff like resolution as long as it plays well. I don't own (and never plan to) Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim because they're horribly buggy on any platform. I don't bitch I simply don't buy and the problems in those games are more bountiful than a little lag, framerates, or resolution.

Secondly, I didn't say all have super expensive rigs; I said quit trying to justify your investment. I didn't say or imply everyone bitching has a super rig, but they are bitching about not being able to run certain resolutions or framerate... like that's going to "destroy their experience."

Julius-Seizure:

Hammeroj:

Julius-Seizure:
PC Players:* What? It won't be better than the console versions? What is this blasphemy against the glorious PC gaming master race?!

Unless you're parodying your own views on this, this is not about having a "better" version than consoles. This is about having a good version on PC. And these completely shitty visual specs are anything but good. Never mind the actual graphics of the game, which already people weren't even expecting would get reworked (stuff like textures getting an HD treatment at the minimum).

Are you saying that having the same version of the game as the consoles makes it a bad PC game? The version that reaped positive reviews worldwide, received awards for the musical score, level design and atmosphere, and has some of the best boss fights of this generation?

None of that praise is directed at the graphics, and why should it be? The gameplay is solid, the atmosphere is excellent and the level design is great. Is making it look pretty really all that important? I certainly don't think it is.

You.

I like you.

You should stay a while :D

If your experience with a game like Dark Souls is easily ruined by it being 30fps instead of 60fps, then you're doing it wrong :D

gnihton:

Baresark:

It honestly sounds to me that the PC version is far superior to the game that I played for 130 hours on my PS3.

It sounds like it isn't actually superior, the framerate is simply smoother because it's running on a faster machine.

If you haven't played it, that is actually superior.

Julius-Seizure:

Are you saying that having the same version of the game as the consoles makes it a bad PC game? The version that reaped positive reviews worldwide, received awards for the musical score, level design and atmosphere, and has some of the best boss fights of this generation?

None of that praise is directed at the graphics, and why should it be? The gameplay is solid, the atmosphere is excellent and the level design is great. Is making it look pretty really all that important? I certainly don't think it is.

On a technical level and on an aesthetic level, yes, it makes the game pretty fucking bad.

You'll note that I stressed that nobody was expecting the game to get any extra work to get done on it as far as the actual assets of the game being upgraded. This isn't about "getting a pretty game" on that level, it's about getting a game that's functional and, you know, not behind other games that are literally more than ten years old. Having a picture quality of 1024x720 stretched out three times to fit in a 1080p monitor and having it be capped at 30FPS[1] is, at the very best, shitty work for a studio game. And given that visuals are the primary way of games conveying information to the player, I'd say having a botch-job of the picture/video quality is straight-up shameful, and a perfectly conscious decision at that.

This is an issue that is only exacerbated by the fact that people sit many times closer to their monitors than they do their TVs. It's the equivalent of putting you in front of someone with some severe skin condition (let's say massive amounts of zits and moles), shoving you right next to their face and then telling you not to look at it and try to become friends because there's a nice person there. Well sorry, if your game looks bad enough to induce a condition seen in my avatar, the chance of giving a shit about its gameplay drops significantly.

All this is to say that graphics matter. There are different levels of expectations for different products, and while From Software had anything but high expectations set up for them, they fucking crashed right past them like an asteroid.

[1] The picture quality I might be able to deal with depending on how bad it actually is, but this right here is a dealbreaker. To anyone who's gotten used to a proudly elitist amount of 60 frames per second, playing something at 30 is something that hurts the eyes, sometimes literally, not to mention it's a major source of input lag.

Hammeroj:
snippy snip

If your game experience is ruined by the graphics not being as sharp as they could be, then, well... Uh... Arma has some pretty sharp graphics. You should check that out. Instead of, you know, hating on a developer with no previous PC experience for not making a good PC port.

If it's really that big of a deal to you, get it on PS3 or make a fan-patch or something productive like that. Or maybe take a walk, read a book, make a sandwich...

Julius-Seizure:

Hammeroj:

Julius-Seizure:
PC Players:* What? It won't be better than the console versions? What is this blasphemy against the glorious PC gaming master race?!

Unless you're parodying your own views on this, this is not about having a "better" version than consoles. This is about having a good version on PC. And these completely shitty visual specs are anything but good. Never mind the actual graphics of the game, which already people weren't even expecting would get reworked (stuff like textures getting an HD treatment at the minimum).

Are you saying that having the same version of the game as the consoles makes it a bad PC game? The version that reaped positive reviews worldwide, received awards for the musical score, level design and atmosphere, and has some of the best boss fights of this generation?

None of that praise is directed at the graphics, and why should it be? The gameplay is solid, the atmosphere is excellent and the level design is great. Is making it look pretty really all that important? I certainly don't think it is.

I'd say that it's pretty bad if they failed to meet a basic standard established over fifteen years ago. Nobody's complaining that they didn't make it look better, the issue is that a game with such potential has been needlessly limited.

The beauty is already there, all From Software needs to do is open the door.

BiH-Kira:

Buretsu:

BiH-Kira:

But the average game runs on 1920x1080 60+ FPS on my PC, while this won't.
So every car in the analogy is a Ferrari. It's just that that one doesn't work as it should.

The average PC game, maybe. But you're not getting a PC game, you're getting a port of a Console game.

Dude, this is just pathetic now. Did you seriously wrote that or did you try to make a bad joke? Practically every game is a console port now.
Crysis 2 - console port
CoD - console port
Assassin's Creed - console port
Skyrim - console port (!!!)
Oblivion - console port (!!!)
The list could go on.
They were designed for consoles and later on ported to the PC.

All those games had at least changeable resolution and didn't have a FPS limit. Crysis had even a special patch for the PC version.
You know why? They had people who actually know how to port do the porting.

Oh wow, let me search Google for that PC exclusives chart.

...

Hwup, found it: http://www.medievalfuture.com/tilt/images/ibkOmw.jpg

Marcus Thomas:
scissors are great for snipping

The problem with that being that From Software has no experience with the PC, so they have no idea how the knob on that door works.

I can't think of a good analogy for that.

Two sad truths in one post.

I would have been slightly disappointed by the news but seeing as their publisher insists on using GFWL I wasn't going to get it unless/until there was a GFWL removing crack available.

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